07-18-2014 04:07 PM
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  1. Live2ride883's Avatar
    Will be decided by the US Supreme Court this Monday at 10:00 am.

    How do you think they will decide and why?
    06-27-2014 08:37 PM
  2. Mooncatt's Avatar
    Given how the court has already ruled on Obamacare, I'm not even going to guess on this one. Plus you're talking about a large corporation. That's different than a little mom and pop company where the owner(s) are also the only employees. I doubt the employees of Hobby Lobby are expected to have the same religious beliefs as the owners, which can throw a wrench into their case.

    Can I take the easy way out and wish both sides the best of luck?
    06-27-2014 08:54 PM
  3. anon8126715's Avatar
    I'm going to say that it'll be a close one. The conservative justices will probably vote in favor of Hobby Lobby while the liberal justices will vote against it, and I'll say that one conservative justice will side with the liberals just because that will then set precedence for other businesses to claim they shouldn't have to pay for healthcare because their religion is against it.

    What gets me about entities that bring about such protest, you never seen them whine about the sin of greed. It's always some reproductive right that they're crying about. If you're only going to rabble rouse for the morals that you want to, then there's no way you can be as moral as you claim to be.
    06-28-2014 03:42 PM
  4. toober's Avatar
    Wouldn't it be a kick in the pants if they lose and just decide to close up shop and fire everyone? That's what I would do if I were being forced to go against my beliefs.
    Sylvia Grimes likes this.
    06-28-2014 08:32 PM
  5. nolittdroid's Avatar
    I think it will be close but hope they rule against hobby lobby. I am so sick of conservatives using religion as a scapegoat when it comes to getting out of things. A for-profit company has no business having any kind of religious exemptions.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    palandri, rexxman, A895 and 1 others like this.
    06-28-2014 11:48 PM
  6. anon8126715's Avatar
    I think it will be close but hope they rule against hobby lobby. I am so sick of conservatives using religion as a scapegoat when it comes to getting out of things. A for-profit company has no business having any kind of religious exemptions.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    If they rule for Hobby Lobby then what I'm going to do is create a religion that is business-centric. The 10 commandments will include such things as not paying taxes, not being liable for any products made or sold, etc. Then I'll charge companies a decent price to get the "church" off the ground. Then these companies can claim that any rules they don't want to follow don't apply to them because they belong to the Church-Of-Greed.
    palandri and nolittdroid like this.
    06-29-2014 12:02 AM
  7. palandri's Avatar
    I am a member of the Golden Oasis sect. We worship ants. We employ 1.2 million people. We believe that we shouldn't have to pay any healthcare cost, because any infliction you may have is the will of the Great Ant. If we don't get our way, we will stomp our feet, pout and fire 1.2 million people.
    rexxman, msndrstood and A895 like this.
    06-29-2014 12:14 AM
  8. Live2ride883's Avatar
    I think it will be close but hope they rule against hobby lobby. I am so sick of conservatives using religion as a scapegoat when it comes to getting out of things. A for-profit company has no business having any kind of religious exemptions.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    I'm hoping you'll be disappointed come Monday morning. For profit companies are ran by people that bring their own personal beliefs and/or code of ethics in the front door. I'm glad to see this and other companies stand for something besides the bottom line. Not everything is about greed...

    Also lets remember that no one is forcing anyone to shop or work at Hobby Lobby.
    Sylvia Grimes likes this.
    06-29-2014 12:19 AM
  9. anon8126715's Avatar
    Exactly what beliefs do some of you think Hobby Lobby is being forced to go against? If Hobby Lobby wins, if they are ok with paying for Viagra or Cialis or other ED medication (medications that are explicitly used for recreational sex), then EVERY WOMAN needs to boycott their store and drive them into bankruptcy. Then the judge presiding over the bankruptcy case needs to rule against Hobby Lobby's bankruptcy with "I told you so" as their summation.
    msndrstood likes this.
    06-29-2014 12:30 AM
  10. Timelessblur's Avatar
    The biggest part of the case is how much personhood to give for profit companies and let them force their beliefs on their employees. Next you will see we do not hire women for religious reasons. Or not allowing people of blank faith to work here for the same reason.

    This case has a chance to fix the problems of citizens United which Roberts already says he regrets that case and he wanted it to be narrower. This is his chance as well.

    Mix with you have 2 of the justices who if they were on any of the lower courts would of been disbarred and kick off for conflict of interest multiple times and not stepping off for those reasons.

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
    06-29-2014 10:32 AM
  11. Mooncatt's Avatar
    The biggest part of the case is how much personhood to give for profit companies and let them force their beliefs on their employees. Next you will see we do not hire women for religious reasons. Or not allowing people of blank faith to work here for the same reason.
    On the flip side, if we are to expect everyone to give up their religious beliefs when going to the workplace, you'd have businesses closing down left and right to comply because their religion doesn't allow envisioning their faith.

    Besides, this case is about birth control. Something INSURANCE isn't meant for. So personally I'm against that mandate, just not on religious grounds.
    cowboy_tech and Sylvia Grimes like this.
    06-29-2014 11:40 AM
  12. Timelessblur's Avatar
    On the flip side, if we are to expect everyone to give up their religious beliefs when going to the workplace, you'd have businesses closing down left and right to comply because their religion doesn't allow envisioning their faith.

    Besides, this case is about birth control. Something INSURANCE isn't meant for. So personally I'm against that mandate, just not on religious grounds.
    Part of the problem is Healthcare should not be insurance. It should be single payer. Healthcare is a right not a privilege. Sadly that is the root of the problem. The dems mistake was trying to make a bill that was a gop idea. Should of gone with a single payer system.
    We need to get health care off the backs of employers. Rather go with higher taxes and move to a single payer system like the rest of the develop world.

    Right now in the USA we pay more and get less.

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
    06-29-2014 01:10 PM
  13. Mooncatt's Avatar
    Healthcare is a right not a privilege.
    Then if no one wants to be a doctor, surgeon, therapist, etc, are we to start jailing people until more start going into practice? Rights are able to live in a vacuum. The right to free speech, the right to own a gun, the right to vote, etc. You can choose to exercise those without impacting others. You can also choose not to exercise those rights. You don't always have a choice with healthcare because accidents and sickness happen whether you like it or not. Healthcare is a responsibility, not a right.

    But hey, if you feel it's a right, why are you not calling for things like food, shelter, and water as a right to be handed out by government? Those are more important than having access to a doctor. Or perhaps cars so you can get to the doctor, because city busing doesn't get you everywhere, assuming you even live in the city. Or how about attending mandated exercise and dietary programs so you don't have to see the doctor as much in the first place. Home inspections to make sure you're not living in filth and getting sick from that. I could go on and on about this lovely idea of the "right" to healthcare. The problem with the people believing that is they typically don't also advocate for personal responsibility that would prevent many ailments in the first place. No, they just want someone else to take care of them.

    We need to get health care off the backs of employers. Rather go with higher taxes and move to a single payer system like the rest of the develop world.
    It was government regulations that put wage caps on employers, which lead them to offering benefits like insurance plans in the first place. Government regulation plays a large role in the increasing cost of healthcare. Government passed this bill without knowing what was in it. Do you see a pattern here? And you expect government will fix it if given even more control? Given the track record of our government, HA!
    Sylvia Grimes likes this.
    06-29-2014 02:18 PM
  14. TOTtomdora's Avatar
    This is the first I've heard of the hobby lobby case. I tried looking it up, but no one seems to really say what it is that's going on, only what might result of it. Anyone care to fill in the details for me?
    06-29-2014 03:18 PM
  15. Mooncatt's Avatar
    Basically the owners religious beliefs go against using birth control, which is part of the Obamacare company insurance mandate. The administration wouldn't give the company an exemption on that part, so it went to court.

    I'm sure that's a simplification of the case, but that's pretty much it in a nut shell. There's other companies involved too, but Hobby Lobby is the one with the big name and more or less taking the lead.
    06-29-2014 03:31 PM
  16. TOTtomdora's Avatar
    Basically the owners religious beliefs go against using birth control, which is part of the Obamacare company insurance mandate. The administration wouldn't give the company an exemption on that part, so it went to court.

    I'm sure that's a simplification of the case, but that's pretty much it in a nut shell. There's other companies involved too, but Hobby Lobby is the one with the big name and more or less taking the lead.
    Thank you moon. Personally I find myself disagreeing with hobby lobby, but that's of course my opinion.
    06-29-2014 03:40 PM
  17. nolittdroid's Avatar
    Exactly what beliefs do some of you think Hobby Lobby is being forced to go against? If Hobby Lobby wins, if they are ok with paying for Viagra or Cialis or other ED medication (medications that are explicitly used for recreational sex), then EVERY WOMAN needs to boycott their store and drive them into bankruptcy. Then the judge presiding over the bankruptcy case needs to rule against Hobby Lobby's bankruptcy with "I told you so" as their summation.
    Viagra is okay because old men are entitled to have boners, but women are not to be trusted with birth control. Who knows what would happen to the good, wholesome cashiers at Hobby Lobby if they were allowed to use birth control!? I bet they'd all be pregnant by year-end. Because everyone knows birth control is used by loose women....

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using AC Forums mobile app
    06-29-2014 04:46 PM
  18. pappy53's Avatar
    Exactly what beliefs do some of you think Hobby Lobby is being forced to go against? If Hobby Lobby wins, if they are ok with paying for Viagra or Cialis or other ED medication (medications that are explicitly used for recreational sex), then EVERY WOMAN needs to boycott their store and drive them into bankruptcy. Then the judge presiding over the bankruptcy case needs to rule against Hobby Lobby's bankruptcy with "I told you so" as their summation.
    Do you realize how silly that sounds? Do you consider sex between man and wife as "recreational"? A lot of married men have a problem, and these drugs are a tremendous help.
    Hobby Lobby agrees to pay for birth control, but it is the "abortion" or "morning after" pill that they have a problem with, and that is a pill that women should pay for if they are not smart enough to use some method of contraception.
    cowboy_tech likes this.
    06-29-2014 08:25 PM
  19. Timelessblur's Avatar
    Do you realize how silly that sounds? Do you consider sex between man and wife as "recreational"? A lot of married men have a problem, and these drugs are a tremendous help.
    Hobby Lobby agrees to pay for birth control, but it is the "abortion" or "morning after" pill that they have a problem with, and that is a pill that women should pay for if they are not smart enough to use some method of contraception.
    That may be hobby lobby but you need to expand out further and see what the ruling could mean.

    A corporation should not have the same full rights as the rest of us. They are not a full person.
    Can they be put in prison?
    The ruling is more than just hobby lobby minor part.

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
    06-29-2014 08:41 PM
  20. pappy53's Avatar
    That may be hobby lobby but you need to expand out further and see what the ruling could mean.

    A corporation should not have the same full rights as the rest of us. They are not a full person.
    Can they be put in prison?
    The ruling is more than just hobby lobby minor part.

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
    The bottom line is that insurance should not have to pay for an abortion pill or anything else pertaining to abortions.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    cowboy_tech likes this.
    06-29-2014 08:49 PM
  21. Timelessblur's Avatar
    The bottom line is that insurance should not have to pay for an abortion pill or anything else pertaining to abortions.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Yet you are missing the point by a miles.
    You are hung up on the pill. Btw plan b pill is not called an abortion but that is not the point.
    The ruling for hobby lobby here has larger issues. Ruling for hobby lobby would green light company not paying minimal wage as it is against their beliefs. It would green like them not paying for any berth control of any type under the same argument.

    This is a large issue.
    Or let's not higher woman for "religious reasons"
    Think about it that way.


    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
    palandri and A895 like this.
    06-29-2014 08:52 PM
  22. pappy53's Avatar
    Yet you are missing the point by a miles.
    You are hung up on the pill. Btw plan b pill is not called an abortion but that is not the point.
    The ruling for hobby lobby here has larger issues. Ruling for hobby lobby would green light company not paying minimal wage as it is against their beliefs. It would green like them not paying for any berth control of any type under the same argument.

    This is a large issue.
    Or let's not higher woman for "religious reasons"
    Think about it that way.


    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
    Think about it this way. If Hobby Lobby closes, then 16,000 people will lose their job. All because a left-wing government is forcing their will.
    Sylvia Grimes likes this.
    06-29-2014 08:59 PM
  23. GadgetGator's Avatar
    On the flip side, if we are to expect everyone to give up their religious beliefs when going to the workplace, you'd have businesses closing down left and right to comply because their religion doesn't allow envisioning their faith.

    Besides, this case is about birth control. Something INSURANCE isn't meant for. So personally I'm against that mandate, just not on religious grounds.
    First off, you do realize that "birth control" is prescribed to a lot of women for health reasons right?

    Secondly, a for profit business was never meant to be a church. Hobby Lobby employs a lot of people. People that shouldn't have their health matters decided by an employer's religious beliefs. That's the problem with many religious people. It's not enough that they use their beliefs to guide their life, they think everyone else should live by that belief as well. Hence the Mormons that come to my door though I don't go to theirs. Hence the anti-gay efforts.

    My feeling is that if you run a secular for profit business in a secular world, then you need to abide by secular laws. Hobby lobby again, is not a church.

    Posted via Android Central App
    A895, msndrstood and palandri like this.
    06-30-2014 02:08 AM
  24. pappy53's Avatar
    First off, you do realize that "birth control" is prescribed to a lot of women for health reasons right?

    Secondly, a for profit business was never meant to be a church. Hobby Lobby employs a lot of people. People that shouldn't have their health matters decided by an employer's religious beliefs. That's the problem with many religious people. It's not enough that they use their beliefs to guide their life, they think everyone else should live by that belief as well. Hence the Mormons that come to my door though I don't go to theirs. Hence the anti-gay efforts.

    My feeling is that if you run a secular for profit business in a secular world, then you need to abide by secular laws. Hobby lobby again, is not a church.

    Posted via Android Central App
    Again, you need to read up on this. Hobby lobby is not against birth-control, but they are against the abortion pill , or the morning after pill.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    06-30-2014 05:01 AM
  25. A895's Avatar
    Think about it this way. If Hobby Lobby closes, then 16,000 people will lose their job. All because a left-wing government is forcing their will.
    I wonder did people say things like this when people were against GM going bankrupt. That's your number times 10 or more.

    Posted via Droid Razr M on the Android Central App
    GadgetGator and palandri like this.
    06-30-2014 07:06 AM
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