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    Default AFSCME union drops support for The UNCF

    AFSCME which is the American Federation of State, County, and Municipal Employees. Has stopped all finiacial and other support for UNCF (Uniter Negro College Fund). This is a pretty big union with very deep pockets, the UNCF is a cause worth donating to, way back in my younger years I belonged to the UAW. One of the charities they donated to at that time was UNCF.

    Simply because the Koch brothers made a 25 million dollar donation to the UNCF, you would think that the union would be glad that a cause they support was receiving such a large infusion of cash. I suppose it is up to the union where they place their charitable contributions, but this just seems kind of petty.

    United Negro College Fund accepts $25 million from Kochs, tells Big Labor to get over it | Mobile Washington Examiner
  2. #2  

    Default Re: AFSCME union drops support for The UNCF

    "How dare you support the same thing I support!"

    :rolleyes:

    I agree with the UNCF's statement, "Get over it."
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    Default Re: AFSCME union drops support for The UNCF

    Wait the union stopped donating because Koch donated? If that is true, I think it speaks volumes for how much the union actually believed in the cause of the charity...
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    Default Re: AFSCME union drops support for The UNCF

    There is no free lunch, there are always strings attached.
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    Default Re: AFSCME union drops support for The UNCF

    The article said that there was a donation and then the president of the funds spoke at a Koch brothers' event. If Donald Sterling donated money to the NAACP then asked the president to speak at one of his functions, I can understand why some donors might be apprehensive. Considering the Koch Brothers fund the party that insists on resurrecting Jim Crow-esque and Poll Tax type laws, I can see why they would have issue with it.
  6. #6  

    Default Re: AFSCME union drops support for The UNCF

    Quote Originally Posted by TXGTOU View Post
    Considering the Koch Brothers fund the party that insists on resurrecting Jim Crow-esque and Poll Tax type laws, I can see why they would have issue with it.
    If that's how you view things, that's you're opinion. But aren't the pro-union groups always saying that unions aren't political advocates? So this shouldn't even be an issue. Even with their opposing views, they shouldn't make a charity suffer because they don't agree with another donor. That's just silly and looks bad on the union.
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    Default Re: AFSCME union drops support for The UNCF

    Quote Originally Posted by Mooncatt View Post
    If that's how you view things, that's you're opinion. But aren't the pro-union groups always saying that unions aren't political advocates? So this shouldn't even be an issue. Even with their opposing views, they shouldn't make a charity suffer because they don't agree with another donor. That's just silly and looks bad on the union.
    What pro-union groups say that unions aren't political advocates? Voting against anti-union politicians, politicians that favor large business over middle class fighting unions, who would even begin to insist that unions aren't individual people unionizing to have a louder voice in their society be it the political arena or any other arena?

    And I'm sorry but if I donate to a cause and the leader of that cause speaks on behalf of another cause that I do not believe in, why shouldn't I refrain from donating to that cause? When Susan G Komen was going to stop their funding of Planned Parenthood because their leader insisted that Planned Parenthood was a one-stop-abortion shop, I stopped buying any products with the pink ribbon (not because I believe that we need to give out abortions like M&Ms, but because I don't believe that the Susan G Komen representative should've introduced religion and right wing agenda into the charity). If the union has prominent leaders that belong to the local Klan, should the UNCF accept their donation? I mean it would make them look bad if they didn't, based on your logic,correct?
  8. #8  

    Default Re: AFSCME union drops support for The UNCF

    Quote Originally Posted by TXGTOU View Post
    What pro-union groups say that unions aren't political advocates?
    Pretty much any time there's a debate on unions and political involvement bias, there's always someone rushing to make the point that the union organization isn't political, that it's just the members independently helping whatever political agenda (pretty much always on the left). Or that the money donated is not from the general union dues. They do everything they can to spin it that the union as an organization is completely neutral politically.

    And I'm sorry but if I donate to a cause and the leader of that cause speaks on behalf of another cause that I do not believe in, why shouldn't I refrain from donating to that cause? When Susan G Komen was going to stop their funding of Planned Parenthood because their leader insisted that Planned Parenthood was a one-stop-abortion shop, I stopped buying any products with the pink ribbon (not because I believe that we need to give out abortions like M&Ms, but because I don't believe that the Susan G Komen representative should've introduced religion and right wing agenda into the charity). If the union has prominent leaders that belong to the local Klan, should the UNCF accept their donation? I mean it would make them look bad if they didn't, based on your logic,correct?
    Do you know what Michael Lomax said at that summit after getting the donation? I don't, and I tried to look it up but every result kept linking to stories like in the OP. I couldn't find anything about the summit speech itself. If you have more info, I'm willing to read it.

    So keep that in mind when I say it depends on what was said. If someone just made a massive donation to your charity (reportedly the 5th largest single donation), don't you think it would be prudent as the charity leader to go give a speech expressing your thanks, giving them more info about your organization, and letting them know more about how their money will be put to good use? That is not showing support for what the Koch brothers believe in, and not the same as what the SGK representative did. What do you think the UNCF should have done, not say a word or return the money?

    Now if Dr. Lomax's speech was promoting the Koch beliefs, then you may have an argument. Since I/we don't know that, I'm going to go with the belief that the UNCF speech was kept politically neutral and was about their charity work. Also note the Koch donation was made because they believed in the UNCF, not the other way around, and have been keeping up with a donation program that was started by one of the companies they bought out.

    http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/...ion-koch-gift/

    Koch Industries has a history of supporting UNCF dating to 2005, when it acquired the company Georgia-Pacific. Georgia-Pacific supported UNCF going back four decades. Since 1995, Georgia-Pacific and Koch have donated more than $1.5 million to UNCF, according to Koch.

    Curley Dossman, president of the Georgia-Pacific Foundation, said it’s because of that long-standing relationship that UNCF approached Koch about the new gift.
    So is this ruffling of feathers due to the fact money was donated, or because the UNCF presumably gave them an elaborate "Thank you?"
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    Default Re: AFSCME union drops support for The UNCF

    AFSCME cuts ties with UNCF over Koch money (opinion) - CNN.com He does have some valid points. The part about the donation money requiring students to get education that they approve, it's like buying someone a gift and then telling them how they're allowed to use it.
  10. #10  

    Default Re: AFSCME union drops support for The UNCF

    Quote Originally Posted by TXGTOU View Post
    The part about the donation money requiring students to get education that they approve, it's like buying someone a gift and then telling them how they're allowed to use it.
    News flash: Lots of scholarships are like that, and there's nothing wrong with it. Or do you also believe Christian scholarships should be awarded to atheists, or an engineering scholarship to a liberal arts major? This new scholarship isn't any different, other than it goes against your personal beliefs.

    Plus, your analogy is flawed. How it actually works is you apply for scholarships, they aren't freely handed out. A better analogy would have been, "it's like asking someone asking for money, the other person agrees, but they put stipulations on it." Even still, nothing wrong with that. Let's say I have a friend or relative in debt asking me for money. I like to help but I know any money I give them will be wasted too.

    So I can offer to help them, but in a way I see fit. I could offer not to give them money directly, but to instead pay for financial counseling on their behalf as long as they go. They don't have to take my money, but if they want it, they will have to be willing to use it according to my views and I won't help someone that refuses to do so. It's the same concept with some special interest scholarships. I'm guessing you either didn't go to college, or at least didn't use scholarships to do so. Otherwise you would have known this happens with some.
  11. #11  

    Default Re: AFSCME union drops support for The UNCF

    Quote Originally Posted by TXGTOU View Post
    AFSCME cuts ties with UNCF over Koch money (opinion) - CNN.com He does have some valid points. The part about the donation money requiring students to get education that they approve, it's like buying someone a gift and then telling them how they're allowed to use it.
    The moment section on that article is awful. Also, the article while well articulated, fails on the fact that pushing blacks into such areas of education would be beneficial than a detriment.

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  12. #12  

    Default Re: AFSCME union drops support for The UNCF

    Quote Originally Posted by Mooncatt View Post
    News flash: Lots of scholarships are like that, and there's nothing wrong with it. Or do you also believe Christian scholarships should be awarded to atheists, or an engineering scholarship to a liberal arts major? This new scholarship isn't any different, other than it goes against your personal beliefs.
    Nothing wrong with the requirements but lets face some facts the Koch brother wants go against AFSCME. As such will effect effect the scholarships and direction of the UNCF.
  13. #13  

    Default Re: AFSCME union drops support for The UNCF

    Quote Originally Posted by Timelessblur View Post
    Nothing wrong with the requirements but lets face some facts the Koch brother wants go against AFSCME. As such will effect effect the scholarships and direction of the UNCF.
    Linked from within the CNN article above.

    http://www.uncf.org/sections/News/SS...s.asp?prID=384

    Key elements of the donation include:
    $18.5 million is directed to the UNCF/Koch Scholars Program and its administration. Funds will be used to provide scholarshipsfor exemplary students with demonstrated financial need and an interest in the study of how entrepreneurship, economics, and innovation contribute to well-being for individuals, communities, and society, as well as an annual summit, mentorship opportunities, and school programs; and
    $6.5 million is provided for general support to HBCUs (Historically Black Colleges and Universities) and UNCF, with $4 million set aside for the 37 UNCF-member HBCUs and their students to provide financial relief related to the Parent PLUS loan crisis.
    So they want to promote black people to go out and be entrepreneurs and make their own way, as well as providing general funding to historically black colleges. I guess now I see why the left doesn't like the idea. They would rather keep minorities on public assistance than to actually help them.
  14. #14  

    Default Re: AFSCME union drops support for The UNCF

    Quote Originally Posted by Mooncatt View Post
    Linked from within the CNN article above.

    http://www.uncf.org/sections/News/SS...s.asp?prID=384



    So they want to promote black people to go out and be entrepreneurs and make their own way, as well as providing general funding to historically black colleges. I guess now I see why the left doesn't like the idea. They would rather keep minorities on public assistance than to actually help them.
    Please stop generalizing, it is the fact that the funding covers particular areas of study and not all. It would restrict, what someone wants to study in college. If they are interested in those fields fine, but the majority of other blacks I have met in college study more liberal arts, and education degrees, which aren't covered under the money.

    Also, by the past, taking money would send a message to some that the organization agree with Koch brothers when they have done some racist related stuff in the past. Not directly, but affiliated with. And that is not a good luck for a organization for blacks.

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    Default Re: AFSCME union drops support for The UNCF

    Quote Originally Posted by A895 View Post
    Please stop generalizing, it is the fact that the funding covers particular areas of study and not all. It would restrict, what someone wants to study in college. If they are interested in those fields fine, but the majority of other blacks I have met in college study more liberal arts, and education degrees, which aren't covered under the money.

    Also, by the past, taking money would send a message to some that the organization agree with Koch brothers when they have done some racist related stuff in the past. Not directly, but affiliated with. And that is not a good luck for a organization for blacks.

    Posted via the Android Central App
    By that logic, liberal arts, education, engineering, medical, and virtually every other discipline centered scholarship is bad. My wife got grant money when she promised to work for certain schools after college. So did a friend of mine that became a doctor. I guess those were super evil by your "no strings" standard.

    It's free money from a private group with some requirements. Like pretty much every scholarship I have ever heard of. Don't want the free money? Don't take it.
  16. #16  

    Default Re: AFSCME union drops support for The UNCF

    Quote Originally Posted by NoYankees44 View Post
    By that logic, liberal arts, education, engineering, medical, and virtually every other discipline centered scholarship is bad. My wife got grant money when she promised to work for certain schools after college. So did a friend of mine that became a doctor. I guess those were super evil by your "no strings" standard.

    It's free money from a private group with some requirements. Like pretty much every scholarship I have ever heard of. Don't want the free money? Don't take it.
    They didn't, they gave the money back. Realistically scholarship money should given to those whichever field interests then and not break into a few fields few would ever take advantage of the scholarship.

    And don't twist my words, I never considered anything super evil and I never said "strings attached", that is you putting words in my posts.

    Posted via the Android Central App
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    Default Re: AFSCME union drops support for The UNCF

    Quote Originally Posted by A895 View Post
    They didn't, they gave the money back. Realistically scholarship money should given to those whichever field interests then and not break into a few fields few would ever take advantage of the scholarship.

    And don't twist my words, I never considered anything super evil and I never said "strings attached", that is you putting words in my posts.

    Posted via the Android Central App
    It's their money. They can put whatever requirements they like on giving it away. Just every other scholarship has requirements. Especially ones funded by private organizations.

    I took a scholarship in college that was extremely specific. Much more so than any described here. One that applied to only a handful of students in my field of study. It was from a private organization as well.

    Long story short, there is nothing wrong with having specific fields of study requirements on scholarships.
  18. #18  

    Default Re: AFSCME union drops support for The UNCF

    Quote Originally Posted by NoYankees44 View Post
    It's their money. They can put whatever requirements they like on giving it away. Just every other scholarship has requirements. Especially ones funded by private organizations.

    I took a scholarship in college that was extremely specific. Much more so than any described here. One that applied to only a handful of students in my field of study. It was from a private organization as well.

    Long story short, there is nothing wrong with having specific fields of study requirements on scholarships.
    But it is not only that the scholarship was specific, there is a long history there of the Koch brothers that a distrust of then by certain Democrats became second nature. Even then, you also have to consider that how many people go through UNCF for scholarships, I am black and never went through them. I have a state scholarship and federal grant and my school is all paid up.

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    Default Re: AFSCME union drops support for The UNCF

    Quote Originally Posted by A895 View Post
    But it is not only that the scholarship was specific, there is a long history there of the Koch brothers that a distrust of then by certain Democrats became second nature. Even then, you also have to consider that how many people go through UNCF for scholarships, I am black and never went through them. I have a state scholarship and federal grant and my school is all paid up.

    Posted via the Android Central App
    Distrust aside, it's their money. Their rules. Makes no difference why people attend the college or take the scholarship.
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    Default Re: AFSCME union drops support for The UNCF

    Quote Originally Posted by Mooncatt View Post
    News flash: Lots of scholarships are like that, and there's nothing wrong with it. Or do you also believe Christian scholarships should be awarded to atheists, or an engineering scholarship to a liberal arts major? This new scholarship isn't any different, other than it goes against your personal beliefs.

    Plus, your analogy is flawed. How it actually works is you apply for scholarships, they aren't freely handed out. A better analogy would have been, "it's like asking someone asking for money, the other person agrees, but they put stipulations on it." Even still, nothing wrong with that. Let's say I have a friend or relative in debt asking me for money. I like to help but I know any money I give them will be wasted too.

    So I can offer to help them, but in a way I see fit. I could offer not to give them money directly, but to instead pay for financial counseling on their behalf as long as they go. They don't have to take my money, but if they want it, they will have to be willing to use it according to my views and I won't help someone that refuses to do so. It's the same concept with some special interest scholarships. I'm guessing you either didn't go to college, or at least didn't use scholarships to do so. Otherwise you would have known this happens with some.
    What happened to your statement
    Quote Originally Posted by Mooncatt View Post
    As to your last paragraph, I'm done debating with you since you seem to need to resort to insults.
    here?

    I guess if I was as sensitive as you, I'd take issue with you claiming I didn't go to college and throw a hissy fit. But, I'll take the higher ground here again since I know you're just as wrong in this instance as you seem to be on a lot of other instances.

    And, I actually did pay for college out of my own pocket, but I know that's not how it works. You pick a major and then see what scholarships are available for that specific interest, not get money that picks your major for you, unless of course you are perfectly fine with someone else mapping out your future for you, which is probably the worst way to land a career that you actually will be successful in pursuing.

    Quote Originally Posted by A895 View Post
    The moment section on that article is awful. Also, the article while well articulated, fails on the fact that pushing blacks into such areas of education would be beneficial than a detriment.
    I'm not sure I understand the first sentence of your quote. The argument he makes, which is a valid one, is that the donor has a dubious reputation of pushing policy that hurts low income families, especially minority families. If the donor was more sensitive to that class of citizens, and more specifically to that race, then I can understand continuing to take money from him. For now though, he might as well be like Donald Sterling, which I suspect he is.
    A895 likes this.
  21. #21  

    Default Re: AFSCME union drops support for The UNCF

    Quote Originally Posted by NoYankees44 View Post
    Distrust aside, it's their money. Their rules. Makes no difference why people attend the college or take the scholarship.
    Either way, it is over with, they gave it back. They didn't like their restrictions, I didn't care for them much either.

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    Default Re: AFSCME union drops support for The UNCF

    Quote Originally Posted by TXGTOU View Post
    I'm not sure I understand the first sentence of your quote. The argument he makes, which is a valid one, is that the donor has a dubious reputation of pushing policy that hurts low income families, especially minority families. If the donor was more sensitive to that class of citizens, and more specifically to that race, then I can understand continuing to take money from him. For now though, he might as well be Donald Sterling.

    I meant the comment section on the link is awful.

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    Default Re: AFSCME union drops support for The UNCF

    Quote Originally Posted by A895 View Post
    I meant the comment section on the link is awful.

    Posted via the Android Central App
    lol, yeah there's a lot of trolling taking place in there....
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  24. #24  

    Default Re: AFSCME union drops support for The UNCF

    Quote Originally Posted by TXGTOU View Post
    lol, yeah there's a lot of trolling taking place in there....
    CNN has one for the worst comment sections.

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    Default Re: AFSCME union drops support for The UNCF

    Quote Originally Posted by A895 View Post
    CNN has one for the worst comment sections.

    Posted via the Android Central App
    If you ever want to see how some white people really think, look at the comments section of CNN when it's a story about race. And some people claim racism is dead.....
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