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    Default Democrats: Ban Contracts for Companies Going Overseas to Avoid Taxes

    Democrats are trying to close a loophole that allows companies to avoid taxes if they move their headquarters overseas.

    Democrats want to ban government contracts for companies that leave the U.S. to avoid taxes -- The Washington Post (article link here)

    Excerpt: "The No Federal Contracts for Corporate Deserters Act (yes, that's really the name), would bar contracts from going to companies that reincorporate, are at least 50 percent owned by American shareholders and have no substantial business in the foreign country where they are incorporated."

    Honestly, should this be a Democrat-only initiative? Wouldn't everyone get behind closing this loophole?
  2. #2  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott7217 View Post

    Honestly, should this be a Democrat-only initiative? Wouldn't everyone get behind closing this loophole?
    One would think.

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  3. #3  

    Default Re: Democrats: Ban Contracts for Companies Going Overseas to Avoid Taxes

    Here's another way to look at it.

    "We, the government, wrote the tax laws, and here's some rules that allow you to save on your taxes if you can figure it out. Oh, and by the way, if you do use those rules to your advantage, we're going to penalize you for it."

    Now tell me how much sense that makes, because that's exactly what's going on with this and other attempts to keep companies from using the tax system to their advantage. The tax system is so convoluted and messed up in this country, it'd be laughable if you could even understand a fraction of it. That's a big reason why I'm such a big Fair Tax supporter. Reduce the corporate taxes (economics 101, businesses don't pay taxes anyway) and all other federal income tax rates to zero and they'd be fools not to reincorporate back to the U.S.
  4. #4  

    Default Re: Democrats: Ban Contracts for Companies Going Overseas to Avoid Taxes

    Good. Its despicable how many huge companies get away with their fair share of taxing.

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  5. #5  

    Default Re: Democrats: Ban Contracts for Companies Going Overseas to Avoid Taxes

    Really would I would change is from a global tax to tax the money gotten domestically. If the money is spent in the US borders we tax it. Simple as that. Lower the tax rate but you lose deductions like any money you paid in foreign taxes and oh none of this crap of your IP is in a tax heaven. We tax it before it leaves the country. If you are renting your logo for a 100 a month we throw a tax on that 100 dollars. It is spent in the US so we tax it in the US.

    The lower business that helps small companies and really the only ones who eat a increase in a tax bill is the multinational who game the system any how.
    Until proven otherwise the so called "Google Update Alliances" is dead and was just empty promises and words. One has to look no father than the pathetic and slow update process of ICS on all the manufactures and carriers. We should all be asking the question about updates and the so called Update Alliances ever chance we get.
  6. #6  

    Default Re: Democrats: Ban Contracts for Companies Going Overseas to Avoid Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Mooncatt View Post
    Here's another way to look at it.

    "We, the government, wrote the tax laws, and here's some rules that allow you to save on your taxes if you can figure it out. Oh, and by the way, if you do use those rules to your advantage, we're going to penalize you for it."

    Now tell me how much sense that makes, because that's exactly what's going on with this and other attempts to keep companies from using the tax system to their advantage. The tax system is so convoluted and messed up in this country, it'd be laughable if you could even understand a fraction of it. That's a big reason why I'm such a big Fair Tax supporter. Reduce the corporate taxes (economics 101, businesses don't pay taxes anyway) and all other federal income tax rates to zero and they'd be fools not to reincorporate back to the U.S.
    No they are penalizing them for breaking the spirit of the tax law. AKA being unethical. Remember it is every easy to be unethical and legal at the same time.
    Until proven otherwise the so called "Google Update Alliances" is dead and was just empty promises and words. One has to look no father than the pathetic and slow update process of ICS on all the manufactures and carriers. We should all be asking the question about updates and the so called Update Alliances ever chance we get.
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  7. #7  

    Default Re: Democrats: Ban Contracts for Companies Going Overseas to Avoid Taxes

    I think they should quit with the band-aid fixes, which is why are tax laws are so complex and no one can understand them. Address the bigger problem and these band-aids wouldn't be necessary.
  8. #8  

    Default Re: Democrats: Ban Contracts for Companies Going Overseas to Avoid Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Timelessblur View Post
    No they are penalizing them for breaking the spirit of the tax law. AKA being unethical. Remember it is every easy to be unethical and legal at the same time.
    Then they shouldn't have wrote this into the tax code in the first place. It's no different than someone taking deductions on their personal returns to lower their tax burden.

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveISU View Post
    I think they should quit with the band-aid fixes, which is why are tax laws are so complex and no one can understand them. Address the bigger problem and these band-aids wouldn't be necessary.
    Exactly. Tax code for 2013 filling: almost 74,000 pages. Fair Tax: 133 pages.
  9. #9  

    Default Re: Democrats: Ban Contracts for Companies Going Overseas to Avoid Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Mooncatt View Post
    Then they shouldn't have wrote this into the tax code in the first place. It's no different than someone taking deductions on their personal returns to lower their tax burden. .
    Again you are confusing legal with being ethical........

    Being legal does not mean you are being ethical.
    As for you pushing the so called Fair tax. Not getting into that debate again. You already know I believe about it.
    Until proven otherwise the so called "Google Update Alliances" is dead and was just empty promises and words. One has to look no father than the pathetic and slow update process of ICS on all the manufactures and carriers. We should all be asking the question about updates and the so called Update Alliances ever chance we get.
  10. #10  

    Default Re: Democrats: Ban Contracts for Companies Going Overseas to Avoid Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Timelessblur View Post
    No they are penalizing them for breaking the spirit of the tax law. AKA being unethical. Remember it is every easy to be unethical and legal at the same time.
    You don't get punished by violating "ethics", as it pertains to the "spirit", they are based on moral codes. You will get punished for violating the law. People can and will have different ethics, which is why they are not enforceable. We are governed by rule of law, when it comes to the IRS tax code there should be no wiggle room, that way people can't get their panties in a bunch because they feel people are violating the "spirit" of anything. It should be the most concrete set of laws with very little room for interpretation outside of the constitution. It is not that hard to wrap your brain around the fact that if the law allows you to keep more of your money, you, a corporation, ect will find ways to make that happen. I don't ever hear anyone saying, "Ya know what, I'm not gonna use my kids as a deduction this year because they didn't really cost me that much, so I think I'll give Uncle Sam a bonus this year." No, you want the money back and you want to stick it in savings, or spend it on a vacation, new car, whatever you want.
  11. #11  
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    Default Re: Democrats: Ban Contracts for Companies Going Overseas to Avoid Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Timelessblur View Post
    Again you are confusing legal with being ethical........

    Being legal does not mean you are being ethical.
    As for you pushing the so called Fair tax. Not getting into that debate again. You already know I believe about it.
    Ethics do not exist in laws and what is ethical is completely subjective to who you are talking to. Laws are nothing more than arbitrary rules with no "Spirit" or intentions of thier own. The people that legislate the laws may have intentions and ethics, but legally none of that matters. All that matters is what is written on paper.

    If a society deems something unacceptable, that society can choose to make a law against that issue and punish the breakers legally. If the society does not make said issue illegal, then social persecution is the only avenue that the society can impose its will.

    If a society's ethics say eating all meat is unacceptable, but they only make eating beef illegal, then that society has no right to complain when citizens eat pork.
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  12. #12  

    Default Re: Democrats: Ban Contracts for Companies Going Overseas to Avoid Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveISU View Post
    You don't get punished by violating "ethics", as it pertains to the "spirit", they are based on moral codes. You will get punished for violating the law. People can and will have different ethics, which is why they are not enforceable. We are governed by rule of law, when it comes to the IRS tax code there should be no wiggle room, that way people can't get their panties in a bunch because they feel people are violating the "spirit" of anything. It should be the most concrete set of laws with very little room for interpretation outside of the constitution. It is not that hard to wrap your brain around the fact that if the law allows you to keep more of your money, you, a corporation, ect will find ways to make that happen. I don't ever hear anyone saying, "Ya know what, I'm not gonna use my kids as a deduction this year because they didn't really cost me that much, so I think I'll give Uncle Sam a bonus this year." No, you want the money back and you want to stick it in savings, or spend it on a vacation, new car, whatever you want.
    Blah blah blah.
    You are ok with them gaming the system.

    This law of banning government contracts says if you want to game the system fine but it will cost you government contracts.
    If you want to do questions ethical practices in tax dodging no government contracts for you. Simple as that.

    As you and I both know that rewriting the tax code will never happen.

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
    Until proven otherwise the so called "Google Update Alliances" is dead and was just empty promises and words. One has to look no father than the pathetic and slow update process of ICS on all the manufactures and carriers. We should all be asking the question about updates and the so called Update Alliances ever chance we get.
  13. #13  

    Default Re: Democrats: Ban Contracts for Companies Going Overseas to Avoid Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Timelessblur View Post
    Blah blah blah.
    You are ok with them gaming the system.

    This law of banning government contracts says if you want to game the system fine but it will cost you government contracts.
    If you want to do questions ethical practices in tax dodging no government contracts for you. Simple as that.

    As you and I both know that rewriting the tax code will never happen.

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
    Nobody is gaming anything if our government writes laws and I follow the laws they write.
  14. #14  

    Default Re: Democrats: Ban Contracts for Companies Going Overseas to Avoid Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveISU View Post
    Nobody is gaming anything if our government writes laws and I follow the laws they write.
    Moving you company over seas to tax Dodge is gaming the system. Punishment no government contract.

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
    Until proven otherwise the so called "Google Update Alliances" is dead and was just empty promises and words. One has to look no father than the pathetic and slow update process of ICS on all the manufactures and carriers. We should all be asking the question about updates and the so called Update Alliances ever chance we get.
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  15. #15  

    Default Re: Democrats: Ban Contracts for Companies Going Overseas to Avoid Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Timelessblur View Post
    Moving you company over seas to tax Dodge is gaming the system. Punishment no government contract.
    I go back to my original post in this thread. The government writes the rules, and now the government punishes you for following the rules. Care to explain how that makes any sense whatsoever? This inversion action is no more dodging taxes than is a a business owner changing from a sole proprietorship to a corporation to reduce his tax burden once the profits get high enough. If it's legal, it's legal. If lawmakers and the IRS didn't want to allow this, they should have wrote the law different in the first place, or change it going forward. None of this backpedaling, and retroactive action as one lawmaker suggested in the original article.

    Even though ethics don't play into this, as Steve ISU and NoYankees44 mentioned, let's pretend for a minute that they do. How is anyone supposed to know what the "spirit" of every tax write off is in such a massive tax law? Are you saying that businesses should consult with the IRS and congress whenever they find a new deduction to see if it violates the "spirit" of the tax code to make sure it's ok? I hope you realize how burdensome and, well... silly that sounds. Even if something like this were taken to court, judges rule based on what laws say objectively, not what the subjective "spirit" of the law is.

    Lastly, many people (myself included) see it as completely ethical to take as many legal deductions as possible under the current tax code. What makes your idea of ethical superior to anyone else's?
  16. #16  

    Default Re: Democrats: Ban Contracts for Companies Going Overseas to Avoid Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Mooncatt View Post
    Here's another way to look at it.

    "We, the government, wrote the tax laws, and here's some rules that allow you to save on your taxes if you can figure it out. Oh, and by the way, if you do use those rules to your advantage, we're going to penalize you for it."

    Now tell me how much sense that makes, because that's exactly what's going on with this and other attempts to keep companies from using the tax system to their advantage. The tax system is so convoluted and messed up in this country, it'd be laughable if you could even understand a fraction of it. That's a big reason why I'm such a big Fair Tax supporter. Reduce the corporate taxes (economics 101, businesses don't pay taxes anyway) and all other federal income tax rates to zero and they'd be fools not to reincorporate back to the U.S.
    What's funny is when you hear people defending these large corporations for working the system to the tune of millions, then whine about poor people gaming the welfare system for what a few hundred dollars? I personally find both acts disgusting, although when a large corporation does it to the sums that they do it, I find it a little more egregious.
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  17. #17  

    Default Re: Democrats: Ban Contracts for Companies Going Overseas to Avoid Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by NoYankees44 View Post
    Ethics do not exist in laws and what is ethical is completely subjective to who you are talking to. Laws are nothing more than arbitrary rules with no "Spirit" or intentions of thier own. The people that legislate the laws may have intentions and ethics, but legally none of that matters. All that matters is what is written on paper.

    If a society deems something unacceptable, that society can choose to make a law against that issue and punish the breakers legally. If the society does not make said issue illegal, then social persecution is the only avenue that the society can impose its will.

    If a society's ethics say eating all meat is unacceptable, but they only make eating beef illegal, then that society has no right to complain when citizens eat pork.
    Per my previous post, are people that game the Welfare system worse or the same? I mean based on your reasoning, you have no reason not to think any less of them right?
  18. #18  
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    Default Re: Democrats: Ban Contracts for Companies Going Overseas to Avoid Taxes

    Corporate Tax Rule Proposal: Businesses that register HQ and pay taxes accordingly as US companies with at least 20% of their workforce (both in population and income) in the US pay 2% of global gross and 1% on domestic revenue in US federal taxes and can write off their state sales taxes (investing locally is rewarded). The highest you can spend in federal tax is 2% of your gross revenue and the lowest is $0.00. All other businesses pay 85% of revenue on all goods sold within the US and a 30% surcharge on gross revenues earned in other markets. Those who decline will have all assets in US territories confiscated and either destroyed or auctioned to complying companies. The message: If you play here, stay here.

    It's not perfect, but there is definitely an incentive to participate in the US market. Imagine Samsung or Volkswagen housing 20% of their workforce or more in the US and barely paying any taxes for doing so. The boost to our economy in employment alone would negate any federal income loss and theoretically, a well paid fully employed populace as little use for a bloated fed anyways.
  19. #19  
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    Default Re: Democrats: Ban Contracts for Companies Going Overseas to Avoid Taxes

    I think some are losing sight of the proposal and arguing the wrong case. IF this proposal becomes law, no one is being punished for following the law. The law will be changed. Businesses will not be allowed to fulfill Federal contracts if they engage in certain business practices. I am for this because I don't want businesses to behave this way to begin with and if they do, I don't want my tax dollars spent to support them.

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  20. #20  

    Default Re: Democrats: Ban Contracts for Companies Going Overseas to Avoid Taxes

    Though i believe everyone should pay their fare share of taxes, these laws will never be completely fair and ethical as long as corporations are allowed to sponsor laws and political careers.
  21. #21  

    Default Re: Democrats: Ban Contracts for Companies Going Overseas to Avoid Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by peacefulberry View Post
    Though i believe everyone should pay their fare share of taxes, these laws will never be completely fair and ethical as long as corporations are allowed to sponsor laws and political careers.
    Good point.
  22. #22  

    Default Re: Democrats: Ban Contracts for Companies Going Overseas to Avoid Taxes

    My argument has always been let American corporations have a 15 percent tax rate, in return every product sold has to be manufactured in the United States.

    This would create a huge incentive to bring back manufacturing to the United States. It would also bring in a lot of tax revenue that is being paid in other countries because they have lower tax rates. The income tax brought in by an expanded workforce would be greatly increase.
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  23. #23  

    Default Re: Democrats: Ban Contracts for Companies Going Overseas to Avoid Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Farish View Post
    My argument has always been let American corporations have a 15 percent tax rate, in return every product sold has to be manufactured in the United States.

    This would create a huge incentive to bring back manufacturing to the United States. It would also bring in a lot of tax revenue that is being paid in other countries because they have lower tax rates. The income tax brought in by an expanded workforce would be greatly increase.


    If I were the owner of a corporation, I'd take that over the current rate, but guess what? That's not good enough for these multi billion dollar corporations: the Walmarts, Krogers, Nike-type of corporations. Most of these corporations can afford to pay the current rates, but they want to pay ZERO taxes! Nike only considered moving their operations back here when they were promised zero taxes and free prison labor (no workers comp, unemployment insurance, pensions, sick pay, etc.) Krogers and Walmart both convince local governments that if they want to build their economy, they should allow them to build large stores with no tax liabilities. Most towns/cities agree and give them whatever they want, because they know that tourism increases when you have a "Walmart". And many states now have tax free corporate initiatives to convince these billionaires that they can keep their billions. New York just started one.
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  24. #24  

    Default Re: Democrats: Ban Contracts for Companies Going Overseas to Avoid Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by TXGTOU View Post
    Per my previous post, are people that game the Welfare system worse or the same? I mean based on your reasoning, you have no reason not to think any less of them right?
    "Gaming the system" implies someone is doing something illegal to obtain an advantage. So your premise is wrong to begin with. Instead of being upset at the people using the rules for the best results, you should be upset at the government for writing the rules like that in the first place.

    And for the record, I think people legally using the welfare system are within their right to do so just like the businesses going overseas to avoid taxes are ok. I may advocate changing how parts of the welfare system is setup, but I don't fault people using the rules as they are currently written. If they are doing something like claiming extra kids they don't have or hiding income by working under the table, then yes I have a problem with that.

    Quote Originally Posted by rexxman View Post
    I think some are losing sight of the proposal and arguing the wrong case. IF this proposal becomes law, no one is being punished for following the law. The law will be changed. Businesses will not be allowed to fulfill Federal contracts if they engage in certain business practices. I am for this because I don't want businesses to behave this way to begin with and if they do, I don't want my tax dollars spent to support them.
    Many businesses have large government contracts (arguably the holy grail of business contracts), and losing them would be a huge hit and effectively punishing them with that loss of business.

    It all still comes back to the idea of penalizing businesses for following the rules instead of changing the tax code.

    Quote Originally Posted by peacefulberry View Post
    Though i believe everyone should pay their fare share of taxes, these laws will never be completely fair and ethical as long as corporations are allowed to sponsor laws and political careers.
    Reduce the corporate taxes to zero, and they will have zero power to lobby the tax code. And when more people realize businesses don't pay taxes in the first place, maybe more sensible tax laws can be put in place. Even if the corporate rate was 100%, they still wouldn't pay taxes and it has nothing to do with deductions. If their taxes are raised, one or more things happen.

    The increase could be passed through to the price of their products, making things more expensive. Who paid the tax? The individual consumer.

    Or they could hold off raises to absorb the additional tax cost. Who pays that? The individual workers through lower wages.

    Or they could take it out of their profits. Who pays that? The individual share holders through loss of company value.

    Or they could hold off planned expansions that are now harder to afford. Who pays then? The individuals that are now unable to be employed.

    See the common link? No where does a business simply pay a tax. In some way, shape, or form, it's always the individual that pays the tax. Taxing a business is nothing more than taxing people in a way they don't realize they are being taxed.
  25. #25  

    Default Re: Democrats: Ban Contracts for Companies Going Overseas to Avoid Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Mooncatt View Post
    "Gaming the system" implies someone is doing something illegal to obtain an advantage. So your premise is wrong to begin with.
    It's not just my premise, but it's also Wiki's premise..... Gaming the system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    So I guess that means you think corporations that "game the system" aren't as immoral as poor people that "game the system", even though one entity has more than enough to survive, while the other is looking to just survive?

    Like I said before, I think both are wrong, but the fact that some people are ok with giving corporations a free pass on their greed and corruption, but look scornfully at the poor for their misdeeds, makes me think that the decay of our society runs deeper than anyone is willing to admit.
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