1. Scott7217's Avatar
    Can there be forgiveness after a massacre?

    One of the big stories in the news is the shooting in South Carolina, where a man killed 9 people in the historic Emanuel African Methodist Church. In wake of all the bloodshed, we can see an opportunity to forgive.

    Reuters -- Families of South Carolina church massacre victims offer forgiveness (article link)

    We had also forgiveness after the Amish schoolhouse massacre in 2006, where a man shot 10 girls, killing 5 of them, before committing suicide. Some members of the Amish community even attended the murderer's funeral, and his mother still cares of one of the victims.

    CBS News -- Mother of Amish school shooter shares amazing story of forgiveness (website link)

    We have many forums threads on gun control, racism, capital punishment, and other divisive topics. Yet, it is encouraging to see that forgiveness can exist in today's political climate. What's your take on forgiveness?
    06-23-2015 05:58 PM
  2. Mooncatt's Avatar
    I think forgiveness is up to the individual(s) affected. It's not for others to tell them if/when they are allowed to forgive.
    06-23-2015 09:10 PM
  3. davidnc's Avatar
    I agree forgiveness is up to the individual(s) affected It's a personal decision
    06-24-2015 06:32 AM
  4. NoYankees44's Avatar
    There is a process that happens after any life changing event which must takes its course. Part of that natural process is usually anger.

    Regardless, I recommend everyone let go of that anger and hate as quickly as they can. These feelings, while natural, are only self destructive long term. A sign of true emotional maturity is forgiving.

    All of the people affected by this tragedy will have to undergo their own process as this nut job goes through a highly publicized trial.

    Sent from my XT1096
    Scott7217 likes this.
    06-24-2015 05:43 PM
  5. Live2ride883's Avatar
    Even tough it's been awhile since I've been on the boards here, I thought I was important for me to reply to this thread.

    A very good friend of mine was a victim of the shooter at the theater in Aurora. When they kept moving the trial date, I would get upset. Then something strange happened, I was speaking with some friends after church about the upcoming trial and my friend, his family, etc. As I was driving home I realized how much anger I was still holding onto, and that my desire/wish for him to get the death penalty was born of a sense of vengeance not one of justice. Every day since I have worked at forgiving him for taking my friends life, but the others as well.

    I no longer wish for him to get the death penalty, I am satidied that he will never again walk the streets as a free man to be able to hurt anyone else. I know that his time in prison will not be easy, however I do hope that he lives long enough to seek God's word and discovers God's plan for his life.
    jdbii likes this.
    08-09-2015 03:29 PM
  6. Scott7217's Avatar
    I think forgiveness is up to the individual(s) affected. It's not for others to tell them if/when they are allowed to forgive.
    What would be the benefits of not forgiving others who cause a massacre?
    08-10-2015 11:03 PM
  7. Mooncatt's Avatar
    I'm not sure off the top of my head, but I'm not going to tell someone else they need to suck it up because they aren't moving through the grieving process as fast as I'd want.
    Aquila likes this.
    08-11-2015 05:53 AM
  8. Aquila's Avatar
    Even tough it's been awhile since I've been on the boards here, I thought I was important for me to reply to this thread.

    A very good friend of mine was a victim of the shooter at the theater in Aurora. When they kept moving the trial date, I would get upset. Then something strange happened, I was speaking with some friends after church about the upcoming trial and my friend, his family, etc. As I was driving home I realized how much anger I was still holding onto, and that my desire/wish for him to get the death penalty was born of a sense of vengeance not one of justice. Every day since I have worked at forgiving him for taking my friends life, but the others as well.

    I no longer wish for him to get the death penalty, I am satidied that he will never again walk the streets as a free man to be able to hurt anyone else. I know that his time in prison will not be easy, however I do hope that he lives long enough to seek God's word and discovers God's plan for his life.
    Welcome back sir.

    I'm fairly torn lately on the death penalty. On the one hand, I believe in the use of the death penalty from a pragmatic sense, to protect the pack from a rogue that rogue needs to be removed. I see a life sentence and the death penalty to be equal sentences, either way the accused stands ready to die in prison, we're just debating the timing and method.

    On the other hand, justice in our country is often spoken about in financial terms. We talk about a person paying their debt to society, or deserving a just reward, etc. Part of this is because our justice system piggybacks on maritime law, which is itself meant to settle disputes of trade in international shipping. (I could make a huge post on this subject, but will leave it here for now). I am becoming convinced that this financial language is being injected into our discussion of justice because we do not actually understand justice. More to the point, we don't want to spend the time and pain to think through all the implications of what a purely logical sense of justice may look like in a legal environment.

    Finally, I can make a strong argument for the Nietzsche case that many of the things that we think of as "grace", including forgiveness, humility, etc. are actually warping our ability to discern justice and that this is harming our ability to dispense rational and just verdicts.

    Obviously I hit a few topics and didn't delve too deeply, however I think I can phrase my argument this way: "Whether or not it is just for the killer to be given a life sentence or death sentence ought to be entirely divorced from the notion that we have (or have not) forgiven him for the emotional trespass, in the betrayal of our societal pact and for the loss of our kin (loved ones, family, friends, countrymen, fellow earthlings, sentient beings, etc). The decision to cast any sentence should be entirely divorced from any concept of punishment or reward. We should act solely with the interests of the law in mind, and avoid seeking recompense, vindication and vengeance".

    Or something like that.
    08-15-2015 07:13 PM
  9. Scott7217's Avatar
    I agree forgiveness is up to the individual(s) affected It's a personal decision
    Is forgiveness a property of the perpetrator of the act, or is it a property of the victim?

    For example, let's say a man shoots 5 people, but all those people survive their injuries, and the police arrest the shooter. Four of the victims forgive the shooter, but the last victim does not.

    Do we say that the shooter is forgiven because the majority of the victims forgive the shooter?

    Do we say that the shooter is not forgiven because there is not 100% agreement from all the victims to forgive the shooter?

    Could we even express forgiveness in numerical terms (e.g. the shooter is 80% forgiven and 20% not forgiven)?
    08-22-2015 06:44 PM
  10. Aquila's Avatar
    It is not a status of a person, but the status of feelings held regarding a person and their actions.

    sent via Nexus Assassin Edition. Gonfaloniere.
    davidnc and Live2ride883 like this.
    08-22-2015 07:25 PM
  11. Fairclough's Avatar
    Assain Droid or Nothingistrue, pretty poor Assain when your old identify still appears in threads for me :9

    I am opposed to the death penalty, although I can see the financial benefits and community etc. I view we should not play God, if there is a wrongful execution it wouldn't be able to reverse and I would hate thay burden if I was on the jury

    Posted via the Android Central App
    09-08-2015 02:23 AM

Similar Threads

  1. Why does my phone brick after changing font?
    By maykelbembibre in forum Ask a Question
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 06-26-2015, 10:58 AM
  2. My phone is stuck trying to start op after getting a new firmware
    By Louise Risum in forum Samsung Galaxy S3 Rooting, ROMs, & Hacks
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 06-23-2015, 04:17 PM
  3. Will the Canvas A1 be able to get Android updates after a hard reset?
    By AC Question in forum General Help and How To
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-23-2015, 03:52 AM
  4. Wi-fi networks disappear after connecting
    By AC Question in forum Ask a Question
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-23-2015, 02:39 AM
  5. Why isn't my touch screen responsive before and after resets?
    By Jonny Foltz in forum Samsung Galaxy S3
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-23-2015, 12:43 AM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD