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  1. #601  
    nrm5110's Avatar

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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by Markster1 View Post
    Ahh, but there's the rub, ar15's are not sold to the military, the fully automatic m16 is, and most of these companies don't have government contacts.
    Actually there are no full auto m16's in the military. The m16a1 was the only full auto variant it was used during Vietnam the issue was the heat generated melted the barrels to dangerous levels rendering the weapon either unusable or unstable.

    During the same era they switched to the m16a2 which was where they introduced the 3 round burst it allowed far superior stability overall. First off full auto reduces accuracy by leaps and bounds whereas you can accurately keep a shot group with 3 round burst. It also extended the firing ability because of the pause between rounds it allowed reduced heat generation.

    Most m16's are no longer in service as we switch to the m4 just a heads up.

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  2. #602  
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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    We live in a gun culture, it is almost what makes us American. I do not believe a ban will stop violence in this country. A lot of it comes from illegal weapons owned by criminals so they won't suddenly turn them in because they are now illegal. There is no way to stop them from happening.

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  3. #603  
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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Looks like you'd prefer not to get anywhere near the point of my post ...
    Quote Originally Posted by carolinadroid View Post
    And why do you [live2ride] insist on repeating the lie that anyone is making A-N-Y attempt to prevent you from defending your home and/or family with an effective firearm?


    Quote Originally Posted by Serial Fordicator View Post
    People don't get gunned down with an ar 15 as much as you want to believe. It is a proven statistic.
    How often is too frequent? When it happens to you, your children, your widow?

    You have more of a chance as someone breaking in your house with a hammer or bat.
    Why not include rocks as instruments of death while you're at it? Clothespins can suffocate you too.
  4. #604  
    nrm5110's Avatar

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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by carolinadroid View Post
    I don't. Blunting falsehoods is due to their existence and those who make them. When those falsehoods are only repeated, ad nauseum, even those in agreement with them should ask them to refrain because it only undermines that side's integrity.

    Now then ... Instead of making this something personal, why can't someone intelligently address the central subject of my post?
    You are the one making it personal by attacking everyone what part of that don't you get.


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  5. #605  
    Serial Fordicator's Avatar

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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by carolinadroid View Post
    Looks like you'd prefer not to get anywhere near the point of my post ...



    How often is too frequent? When it happens to you, your children, your widow?



    Why not include rocks as instruments of death while you're at it? Clothespins can suffocate you too.
    Actually, I'm not worried about anyone as long as I have a gun.


    As far as the rocks and clothespins, I used hammers because they killed more people than assault weapons last year per the FBI.



    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
  6. #606  
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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by Serial Fordicator View Post
    Care to comment about this?
    Sure. Make a particular point based upon hard facts and statistics and I'll be glad to discuss. In the meantime ... read the basis for your point here: Connecticut Law About Firearms Law
  7. #607  
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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by Serial Fordicator View Post
    Actually, I'm not worried about anyone as long as I have a gun.
    When your friendly neighbor's bullets don't respect the property line between you, your gun is of no use. Guess you're satisfied to wade through civil court over the next 3-5 years?

    As far as the rocks and clothespins, I used hammers because they killed more people than assault weapons last year per the FBI.
    "Hammers" is not a line-item on the FBI's stats page. It's a line which includes hammers ... but you knew that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by nrm5110 View Post
    BAIT
    Ignored.
  8. #608  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Can we agree that criminals do not care about a law you pass? They dont! Passing more legislation will not stop these events. A law will only prevent law abiding citizens from having these firearms. Do you really think a person going to a school intent on killing is going to care about a law? Do you think he will care what weapon he uses?
    So while were at it lets ban cars, fertilizer, knives, baseball bats....the list goes on.
    Its not a weapon problem, its a people problem.

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  9. #609  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by carolinadroid View Post
    Against multiple assailants, a shotgun would have been a more effective defensive weapon.

    And why do you insist on repeating the lie that anyone is making A-N-Y attempt to prevent you from defending your home and/or family with an effective firearm?
    Because it is my decision what I need to defend my home with not yours, or A-N-Y-O-N-E else's.
    I miss my friend Matt McQuinn he touched so many lives, and in the end gave his life to protect someone that he loved. I am proud to have known him, and of the choices he made when it mattered. You were a true hero.

    "You would not fear my weapon unless your intentions were to provoke my using it"
  10. #610  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by nrm5110 View Post
    Actually there are no full auto m16's in the military. The m16a1 was the only full auto variant it was used during Vietnam the issue was the heat generated melted the barrels to dangerous levels rendering the weapon either unusable or unstable.

    During the same era they switched to the m16a2 which was where they introduced the 3 round burst it allowed far superior stability overall. First off full auto reduces accuracy by leaps and bounds whereas you can accurately keep a shot group with 3 round burst. It also extended the firing ability because of the pause between rounds it allowed reduced heat generation.

    Most m16's are no longer in service as we switch to the m4 just a heads up.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2
    Actually there are elements in the air force which still use the original and a1 variants. They are support units and therefore don't need the m4. Air Force vet here.
  11. #611  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by carolinadroid View Post
    Yes. Because when a neighbor owns a weapon which can destroy the lives of 30 people in less than 15 seconds (Bushmaster AR-15, for example), his/her bullets don't respect property lines ... and it becomes my business. My children have the right to live without threat as well.
    You still no nothing about guns with this statement.
  12. #612  
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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by carolinadroid View Post
    Against multiple assailants, a shotgun would have been a more effective defensive weapon.

    And why do you insist on repeating the lie that anyone is making A-N-Y attempt to prevent you from defending your home and/or family with an effective firearm?
    If you are talking about less though involved yes.

    Problem is far mor property damage and in actuality a 5.56 NATO round given that upon impact it tumbles through the body can actually be devastating especially if you shoot for the knees the exit wounds can be pretty gruesome. I have a buddy who was hit in iraq.

    So really the at could do almost as much damage to the assailant while minimizing damage to the home.

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  13. #613  
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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by Live2ride883 View Post
    Because it is my decision what I need to defend my home with not yours, or A-N-Y-O-N-E else's.
    What prevents a-n-y-o-n-e from making it a personal decision that they require an automatic weapon to "defend their home"?
    nolittdroid likes this.
  14. #614  
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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by nrm5110 View Post
    If you are talking about less though involved yes.

    Problem is far mor property damage and in actuality a 5.56 NATO round given that upon impact it tumbles through the body can actually be devastating especially if you shoot for the knees the exit wounds can be pretty gruesome. I have a buddy who was hit in iraq.

    So really the at could do almost as much damage to the assailant while minimizing damage to the home.
    How did we possibly survive as a civilization when all we had were reasonable and effective firearms to protect our families and property? Nothing compels anyone to have a care if you need to replace a door frame or spackle a wall because you found it necessary to defend your life or property.
  15. #615  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by carolinadroid View Post
    How did we possibly survive as a civilization when all we had were reasonable and effective firearms to protect our families and property? Nothing compels anyone to have a care if you need to replace a door frame or spackle a wall because you found it necessary to defend your life or property.
    Another post in which you know nothing about guns and penetration of different calibers. You're just scared of the AR15 and want them gone.
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  16. #616  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    When I was stationed in Norfolk, Va at the shipyard after a date one night I was shot during a mugging. Honestly if that person had better aim I wouldn't be here. I only sustained minor injuries to my head. The criminal was sentenced to 25 years and was eligible for parole after 15 years, every time he was in front of the parole board I went to the hearing to speak as the victim to prevent this criminal from being released early. He served his entire sentence, myself nor my family will ever be defenseless in the face of an armed criminal.

    If he has a knife I want a firearm, if he has a firearm I want to have one that will put the fear of god in him just by seeing it.

    We do not have a gun problem in this country, we have a crime problem. Shootings come in 2 types either accidental, or as a DIRECT result of a crime being committed.

    Do something that makes the criminal not want to commit the crime, make the threat of getting caught fully outweigh any perceived advantage of getting away with it.

    BTW, I had less than 200.00 dollars cash on me that night. He was willing to take my life for that little bit of cash if for no other reason than to keep me from identifying him. To the police who did not show up until after the crime had been committed.
    I miss my friend Matt McQuinn he touched so many lives, and in the end gave his life to protect someone that he loved. I am proud to have known him, and of the choices he made when it mattered. You were a true hero.

    "You would not fear my weapon unless your intentions were to provoke my using it"
  17. #617  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    I agree and yet it appears President Obama doesn't, he's just after the guns. He did nothing to address the criminal aspect of killing someone, no harsher penalties, nothing at all.
  18. #618  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by carolinadroid View Post
    What prevents a-n-y-o-n-e from making it a personal decision that they require an automatic weapon to "defend their home"?
    An AR-15 is N-O-T an automatic weapon, this has been covered. Some of the steps to get an automatic weapon include you have to have permission from the head of law enforcement in your county usually the sheriff, as well as a class 3 weapons license from the ATF which BTW is not easy, feel free to visit ATF Online - Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions - National Firearms Act (NFA) - Firearms and see that for yourself.
    I miss my friend Matt McQuinn he touched so many lives, and in the end gave his life to protect someone that he loved. I am proud to have known him, and of the choices he made when it mattered. You were a true hero.

    "You would not fear my weapon unless your intentions were to provoke my using it"
  19. #619  
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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by Live2ride883 View Post
    An AR-15 is N-O-T an automatic weapon, this has been covered.
    Read more carefully as I never stated that the AR-15 is an automatic weapon.

    Some of the steps to get an automatic weapon include you have to have permission from the head of law enforcement in your county usually the sheriff, as well as a class 3 weapons license from the ATF which BTW is not easy, feel free to visit ATF Online - Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions - National Firearms Act (NFA) - Firearms and see that for yourself.
    Now, how about answering the question I asked you, which was based upon your 'logic' when you stated : Originally Posted by Live2ride883
    Because it is my decision what I need to defend my home with not yours, or A-N-Y-O-N-E else's.


    What prevents a-n-y-o-n-e from making it a 'personal decision' that they require an fill in the blank to "defend their home"?
    Last edited by carolinadroid; 02-07-2013 at 10:58 AM.
  20. #620  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by carolinadroid View Post
    Read more carefully as I never stated that the AR-15 is an automatic weapon.

    Now, how about answering the question I asked you, which was based upon your 'logic' when you stated : Originally Posted by Live2ride883
    Because it is my decision what I need to defend my home with not yours, or A-N-Y-O-N-E else's.


    What prevents a-n-y-o-n-e from making it a 'personal decision' that they require an automatic weapon to "defend their home"?
    To the best of my knowledge the law doesn't prevent anyone from purchasing a fully automatic weapon as long as they meet the requirements listed on the site I previously linked.

    I do know that none of the gun ranges within 100 miles of me allow the use of fully automatic weapons. I know several serious gun collectors that have tried and been turned down repeatedly for a class 3 firearm license. So don't think it's like walking into Walmart and filling a prescription, and regardless of what you or anyone else may think about the black market for these type of weapons they are not easy to get.

    The penalties including prison time for owning this type of weapon illegally are enough to keep law abiding gun owners in line.
    I miss my friend Matt McQuinn he touched so many lives, and in the end gave his life to protect someone that he loved. I am proud to have known him, and of the choices he made when it mattered. You were a true hero.

    "You would not fear my weapon unless your intentions were to provoke my using it"
  21. #621  
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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Originally Posted by carolinadroid
    Yes. Because when a neighbor owns a weapon which can destroy the lives of 30 people in less than 15 seconds (Bushmaster AR-15, for example), his/her bullets don't respect property lines ... and it becomes my business. My children have the right to live without threat as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Markster1 View Post
    You still no nothing about guns with this statement.
    Tell it to Mark Kelly, Gabby Gifford's husband, who witnessed the unmodified Bushmaster AR-15 assault.

    At 10:10am on January 8, 2011, a young man walked up to Gabby at her constituent event at a Safeway in Tucson, leveled his gun, and shot her through the head. He then turned down the line and continued firing. In 15 seconds, he emptied his magazine. It contained 33 bullets; there were 33 wounds.
    http://www.judiciary.senate.gov/pdf/...yTestimony.pdf
  22. #622  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by carolinadroid View Post
    Read more carefully as I never stated that the AR-15 is an automatic weapon.
    And we haven't been talking about automatic weapons here, just assault weapons but yet you bring it up........ not relevant.
  23. #623  
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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by Markster1 View Post
    And we haven't been talking about automatic weapons here, just assault weapons but yet you bring it up........ not relevant.
    That's your agenda. Reasonable people are open to a more comprehensive dialog.
  24. #624  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    NO civilian can possess a machinegun manufactured AFTER May 1986 except for law enforcement and military so there is a finite quantity available.

    The machine guns made prior to May of 1986 can still be owned.
    All class III / title 2 weapons fall into 1 of 6 different categories.
    1) Machineguns,
    2) Short Barreled Rifles (SBRs),
    3) Short Barreled Shotguns (SBSs),
    4) Suppressors,
    5) Any Other Weapon (AOWs)
    6) Destructive Devices.

    he (6) distinct types of Class III NFA weapons are

    1) Machineguns Often referred to as full-autos, automatics, etc any firearm which fires more than 1 bullet for each individual pull of the trigger.

    2) Short Barreled Rifles (SBR) - Rifles with barrels less than 16″.
    3) Short Barreled Shotguns (SBS) - Shotguns with barrels less than 18.
    4) Silencers (Suppressors). Silencers/Suppressors are never portrayed accurately in the movies. If the bullet speed breaks the sound barrier, you WILL hear a pop. Suppressors are meant to alter the signature of a weapon so that it sounds like something else and/or the sound heard doesnt mark the shooters position as easily as a non-suppressed weapon. .22 cal firearms can be suppressed very well though. You can make them so quiet that the action cycling produces more sound than the fired bullet does. With other calibers, sub sonic ammo can be used to lessen the signature as the bullet leaves the barrel. Best analogy I can give is a normal suppressed 5.56/223 from an AR15 will sound more like a .22 cal. rifle being fired.

    5) Any Other Weapon (AOW) these are usually things that dont meet the other criteria above. Put a fore grip on a pistol, guess what? You JUST made an AOW weapon and if the proper paperwork and approval were not obtained prior, you have violated NFA regulations and possess a contraband weapon that carries severe fines and penalties. Other common AOW classifications are these wallet holsters you see that are meant to be/could be fired while the weapon is still in the holster. Pen guns are another example.

    AOWs are a little special in that the transfer tax for them is only $5.00. Ironically, the maker of the AOW still has to pay a $200 maker Form 1 fee just like he/she would to make a SBR, SBS or Silencer.

    6) Destructive Devices (DDs) these are self explanatory, but the ATF has classified several classes of shotguns now as destructive devices. The infamous Street Sweeper shotgun is considered a DD by the ATF and falls into the title 2/NFA realm.
    An interesting and widely unknown fact, since the NFA went into effect in 1934, there has only been ONE, yes, ONE single felony committed in the whole United States since 1934 that involved a legally registered NFA firearm. And it was committed ironically by a crooked police officer who went to a drug house and shot someone on the premises. He used his legally acquired UZI sub machinegun to commit the crime. You hear all the time of machineguns and sawed off shotguns in the news but these have all been by individuals possessing an illegal, non registered weapon. There are millions of records of legally owned entries on the NFA registry too, so its not like were talking just a few hundred or thousand potential individuals.
    I miss my friend Matt McQuinn he touched so many lives, and in the end gave his life to protect someone that he loved. I am proud to have known him, and of the choices he made when it mattered. You were a true hero.

    "You would not fear my weapon unless your intentions were to provoke my using it"
  25. #625  
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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by Live2ride883 View Post
    /cut-n-paste which does not come near the question/
    Now, how about answering the question I asked you, which was based upon your 'logic' when you stated : Originally Posted by Live2ride883
    Because it is my decision what I need to defend my home with not yours, or A-N-Y-O-N-E else's.


    What prevents a-n-y-o-n-e from making it a 'personal decision' that they require an fill in the blank to "defend their home"?
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