[Live2ride883]

Maybe your right except one thing. That clump of cells is not life.

Sent from the nexus of the Android world, the SGS3.

Life begins at conception.

If you wish to have a discussion about abortion then let's start a new thread.

[piizzadude]

Federal law prohibits the taxing of an item more than its value.

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Federal law prohibits the taxing of an item more than its value.

Couldn't find that one, but ok. The government can set a minium sales price for an item.

A bullet costs a minium of 500$

Sent from the nexus of the Android world, the SGS3.

[piizzadude]

Life begins at conception.

If you wish to have a discussion about abortion then let's start a new thread.

Not legally and there are debates on if it is scientifically.

Thankfully.

And no thanks on the offer of a new debate thread. Pointless debate since it has already been laid out.

Sent from the nexus of the Android world, the SGS3.

[Live2ride883]

I always thought it was "MSRP" Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price, not Government Set Retail Price.

When a woman buys one of those home pregnancy tests and it turns blue, or shows + by any other form of indication it means she is pregnant. If a woman is pregnant she is carrying a baby. Not a mass of cells, but a baby.

[piizzadude]

There is that too, but certain commodities (milk is the most prominent example) has a minium price that it can be sold at. If you are caught selling it lower, there is crap to be paid.

Doing this with bullets, one of the penalties could be reminding the reseller license.

Sent from the nexus of the Android world, the SGS3.

[Live2ride883]

There is that too, but certain commodities (milk is the most prominent example) has a minium price that it can be sold at. If you are caught selling it lower, there is crap to be paid.

Doing this with bullets, one of the penalties could be reminding the reseller license.

Sent from the nexus of the Android world, the SGS3.

The reason milk has a minimum price it can be sold at is because of government subsidies that are given to dairy farmers which come from taxes...

[piizzadude]

The reason doesn't matter, it has been done. It can be done again, and it is more for the farmers than protecting the tax investment.

Sent from the nexus of the Android world, the SGS3.

[Live2ride883]

What is about to be shared comes courtesy of an editor of my local newspaper and The Columbus Dispatch. Mind you, this is only a sharing of statistics and will do NOTHING for the EQ - it is meant for the IQ. The statistics are from the FBI Unified Crime Report and an article done by The Dispatch. In 1991 for every 100,000 citizens there were 9.8 murders. In 2012 there were 4.7 murders for every 100,000 citizens - a drop of 55%. Any one wonder WHY this figure is never reported? In 2010 there were 12,996 murders in the United States. 8,775 of these murders were committed with firearms. 6,009 were committed with handguns. Shotguns killed 379. Unstated/undetermined kinds of firearms committed 1,939 deaths. Rifles - assault or otherwise - amounted to 358 murders. 1,704 murders were the result of knives, blunt objects killed 540 citizens, and hands, feet, and fists accounted for 745 murders. In the United States there are 1.5 million assault rifles. Using the number of deaths by rifle - assault or otherwise - 358 - one can see the illegitimacy of going after the assault rifle or the magazines. According to the Sunday Dispatch, the January 20 issue, in Ohio there were 24,764 abortions performed in 2012. Again, in one year, in one state - OHIO - there were double the number of abortions performed as were deaths caused by any and all means throughout the entire 50 states. I am searching for the total number of abortions performed in all 50 states for 2012. So, where are the real killing fields?

[King Howie]

Have I reason to be concerned of your personally attacking opinion when you avoid, like the plague, responsible positions which address my points? I think not.

Perhaps, if you weren't acting like a ***** more people would debate you. Else, why even bother

[backbeat]

It's exactly how the "big, bad, real world" operates. That's why it doesn't work, will never work, but people like yourself will preach down at others about it. You keep moving the goalposts, from bushmasters to RPGs, yet you ignore the fact that an unskilled person can take the lives of everyone in a movie theater or classroom faster and more efficiently with weapons you deem "acceptable". There's a giant hole in your bucket of logic.

To address your question -- I expect a person hell bent on irrational acts of violence to use whatever weapon they have at hand. I'll be blunt -- a person possessed with a desire to do harm could kill a hell of a pile of little kids with a machete, or a shovel, or a cheap .22 from Walmart. I don't even want to consider what they could do with $15 worth of items from the camping section and a piece of iron pipe. Unless you want to ban those items, you'll need to figure out how to identify and stop those people. Thinking "that won't happen, and hey -- what about RPG launchers?" is a cop out.

You refuse to go there in addressing RPG launchers because you know it, conceptually, is at the heart of the argument. Our society has always made choices on what is allowable in a civil society ..... and what is not allowable. Why are you opposed to the nation making a choice based upon today's standards and kill data? If the laughable examples of instruments of death that you cite (hammers, shovels, etc) had reached a level of critical mass in exacting out death, you still equivocate about ending their production. Only a terribly irresponsible nation (and its people) would continue to allow a product to be produced when it is statistically responsible for civilian, innocent deaths. The other major fly in your reasoning is that a product whose only design intent is to produce physical harm to other persons is not equivalent to hammers and shovels. Just ask the FBI. They know better. Why don't you?

This is why nobody wants to discuss it with you, you're blind to any truth you don't agree with, and resort to an insulting tone. Carry on without me.

The truth doesn't change dependent upon your presence. Making it personal [see above post for evidence] should be beneath you (and others). Yet, your selective silence where their childishness is concerned is blinding, indeed.

[Live2ride883]

How are the weapons used in most homicides a laughable example? We have a constitution, that document is the law of the land. The Supreme court has upheld the individuals right to bear arms.


Carolinadroid I struggle to find one redeeming quality in any of your posts, however under the first amendment you are entitled to free speech which in some cases has now become illegal a felony. Therefore I will defend your right to say it.

[Andyvalver]

I live in the uk so obviously im against guns as we don't have them here. Id say if you cant ban guns then schools should have airport style checks with metal detectors at the entrance.

It seems far too common in the states that this is happening. For every one ***** that shoots up a school 10 or 20 innocent people get killed. That's too much for nothing to be done

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[backbeat]

How are the weapons used in most homicides a laughable example?

Cite the FBI source which demonstrates that shovels, hammers, et al are "used in most homicides". Go for it.

[Andyvalver]

Cite the FBI source which demonstrates that shovels, hammers, et al are "used in most homicides". Go for it.

So what, start with guns first because its easier to kill 20 people with a gun than a hammer

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[Live2ride883]

I live in the uk so obviously im against guns as we don't have them here. Id say if you cant ban guns then schools should have airport style checks with metal detectors at the entrance

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Android Central Forums

Andy since you live in the UK I would say you don't have a dog in this hunt. But since they outlawed dog hunting too you may not understand my point.

This is a discussion about American gun control legislation, policies and I am not sure how much your opinion matters.

I am not trying to be rude, it's just the way I see it.

-----------

Andy what I find to be criminal is this and pardon me for not knowing all of the details but maybe you can fill them in. There is a guy in London or the surrounding area that had his home broken into several times in a short period. After replacing everything and repairing the damage multiple times he had finally had enough. Apparently somehow he got a weapon and when the thieves came back yet again he shot one. Now this man sits in jail for defending his home against a criminal.... Honestly WTF are you guys putting in that tea..

As for the rest of this thread I am stepping away before this gets out of hand and I end up getting banned.

[Andyvalver]

Andy since you live in the UK I would say you don't have a dog in this hunt. But since they outlawed dog hunting too you may not understand my point.

This is a discussion about American gun control legislation, policies and I am not sure how much your opinion matters.

I am not trying to be rude, it's just the way I see it.

Thats fine and im not offended. Since I searched android forum in the play store and joined here. I do not care where anyone is from. Im entitled to my opinion but it doesnt mean anyone has to listen to it lol

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[backbeat]

Andy since you live in the UK I would say you don't have a dog in this hunt. But since they outlawed dog hunting too you may not understand my point.

This is a discussion about American gun control legislation, policies and I am not sure how much your opinion matters.

I am not trying to be rude, it's just the way I see it.

Sure. Why even consider how other nations with histories much longer than the comparative infancy of the US have advanced into more civilized, less lethal societies? That's productive.

[atomic_squid]

Well, the first thing we need to do is not increase weapons restrictions. It sounds counterintuitive, but what we need to do is educate the populace about the dangers (and uses) of firearms. Take away the mystery from the children, and they'll quickly go on to other things that they're able to be curious about. If a kid has never seen a gun in his life and then his friend goes and gets his dad's shotgun (which brings me to another point, guns need to be properly secured), then that kid will be both curious and uneducated on how to handle it properly. There will be an accident. A deadly one. To keep the criminals away, I personally believe that one cop (like my school system has been doing since Columbine) in there during all hours. Not only would it help deter shooters, it would decrease the rate of crime and the like because there's a cop in the building. Only a true ***** would try something against the rules with a guy who has the legal capability to arrest you a hundred yards away. That cop would be an effective first line of defense. Finally, the teachers need some way to protect themselves and their students. I'm not saying give them all a pistol, but something.

[backbeat]

If we are going to force manufacturer's to stop making products based on public safety we won't have any manufacturer s left. Anything produced by man can and will be abused by man.

Yet, there are plenty of FBI statistics which clearly demonstrate which weapons are primarily responsible for the loss of innocent, civilian lives. HINT: Those weapons would not be hammers, shovels, shotguns, hunting rifles, etc. Every single manufacturer can continue to exist, according to the law of the land.

[atomic_squid]

Not less lethal. Just less able to defend themselves from both criminals, and, should it come to it, their government. The thing about the USA is that we were founded on the principle that if a government is tyrannical, the citizens have the right, nay, the duty, to get rid of that government. That's one of the main reasons our founding fathers gave us the right to bear arms. And that's a right I will always remember as I blow a clay pigeon out of the sky with my Remington 870 Express.

[Mellimel22]

Chicago has a ban denying guns to law abiding citizens how's that working out with their murder statistics?

I don't care what kind of phone you have, that's not how I judge someone's worth or intelligence.

I think We are changing our laws because honestly I don't c the so called ban doing nothing but not giving us law following citizens to not defend ourself. I know if more people who follow the law had bangas my citys murder rate will fall

Sent from my Sprint Galaxy Nexus rockin 4.2.1 using Tapatalk 2

[nolittdroid]

Or the person who owns the shotgun shouldn't leave it lying around for a child to find?

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[piizzadude]

If only the Newton shooter mom was a gun owner her life and all those kids would have been saved.

You right, let's make it easier for people to get guns.

I am not anti gun really, I am anti large gun. No need for more than a ten round magazine.

Sent from the nexus of the Android world, the SGS3.

[Jerry Hildenbrand]

You refuse to go there in addressing RPG launchers because you know it, conceptually, is at the heart of the argument. Our society has always made choices on what is allowable in a civil society ..... and what is not allowable. Why are you opposed to the nation making a choice based upon today's standards and kill data? If the laughable examples of instruments of death that you cite (hammers, shovels, etc) had reached a level of critical mass in exacting out death, you still equivocate about ending their production. Only a terribly irresponsible nation (and its people) would continue to allow a product to be produced when it is statistically responsible for civilian, innocent deaths. The other major fly in your reasoning is that a product whose only design intent is to produce physical harm to other persons is not equivalent to hammers and shovels. Just ask the FBI. They know better. Why don't you?

The truth doesn't change dependent upon your presence. Making it personal [see above post for evidence] should be beneath you (and others). Yet, your selective silence where their childishness is concerned is blinding, indeed.

Truth:
RPGs are not firearms
Alcohol is designed only to produce physical harm to humans, yet some humans enjoy using it. It's also not a firearm, so this is as valid as your RPG comment. Why are we not banning liquor sales (only liquor in bottles that are scary, though) if we want to prevent harm and death? <---This is how stupid it looks anytime someone compares a bomb, grenade, tank or RPG to a rifle.

My "examples" were of items people could use to kill others if they chose, and I never said they should be banned. I only asked how people like yourself, who think banning weapons based on the shape of their stock will solve anything, would handle it when they are used to hurt others. You could answer that, but you won't.

You say I'm opposed to an assault weapon ban. I have said that I don't particularly care, but am smart enough to know it will make no difference. Stop putting words into my mouth.
What I have said, and I will single you out, is that people who are pushing for a ban on "assault weapons" are looking for an easy way out that makes them feel like they accomplished something. You think you can stop some violent crime by banning a gun that you are afraid of. You can't. It won't happen, and you will have wasted millions of dollars, thousands and thousands of man-hours, and will be left with people using other means to kill just as many people. But it's easy and you can act smug, making it a win-win for you.

As far as the comments of others, they are allowed to say things you don't like. As long as the rules of this forum aren't being broken, and they are not, I encourage everyone to post at will.

[The Hustleman]

If we are going to force manufacturer's to stop making products based on public safety we won't have any manufacturer s left. Anything produced by man can and will be abused by man.

True military grade weapons are extremely expensive and difficult to obtain in the US. They require special permits from the FBI, and you must notify local law enforcement if you are even transporting them. I am only speaking of the machine gun I am not aware if a private citizen can even own an RPG launcher. However I do believe you are shifting the point. I don't recall any mall, school, or theater shootings in the US using an RPG.

Earlier someone said something about defending yourself against a tyrannical government was nuts. Why don't you do a YouTube search for the battle of Tennessee. A brief account of the story is this. After WWII returning veteran's in this small Tennessee town found the corrupt sheriff and governor was rigging elections. Well these vet's broke into the Armory and held the sheriff and his deputies and also retrieved the stolen ballot boxes so a proper count could take place. Here is a link to the video



A gun is a defensive weapon, it is the choice of the person holding it that decides what it is used for. I have never been to a gun show or seen any gun advertised that it is designed for the criminal act. I do not see posters of muggers, thieves, or rapists stating how much better that particular weapon is for them.

The truth is there are evil men in this world and they will find a way to do evil things. Personally I think we should get rid of gun free zones, every mass shooting in the last 20 years except one was in a gun free zone. Every person that has committed one of these crimes has been under some type of mental health care, which under current law should have prevented them from getting the guns legally. They are CRIMINALS, they are not going to obey the laws currently in effect so do you honestly think one or one hundred more laws are going to make a difference to them?

Why did VP Joe Biden make the statement that we don't have the time to prosecute people that lie on the background check paperwork, but yet they want more restrictive gun laws?

My 11 year old daughter is a better marksman than my 15 year old son simply because she enjoys shooting more than he does and she practices A LOT. Hardly a weekend goes by that we do not go to the farm or a range. My kids know gun safety, they know that they are not toys and they do respect the inherit danger in handling a weapon. I carry a weapon every time I leave the house, if I have to enter a gun free zone I simply leave it in the car or on the bike. My kids always stay on my left side when we go out simply because my gun is always on my right side unless I am on the bike.

Smart man.

I never leave without mine either.

They call me paranoid, im no more paranoid than people who use seat belts, have life insurance, or have fire extinguishers in their home.

sent from the best smart phone (not phablet) on the worst network- the Galaxy S3 unfortunately on T-Mobile