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  1. #176  
    NotJustAPhone's Avatar

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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Keep the discussion civil. Personal attacks will not be tolerated.

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  2. #177  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by Live2ride883 View Post
    I disagree with a woman's right to choose, it makes no sense that a woman is legally allowed to murder a truly innocent person just because she has a uterus.

    Speaking from personal experience, a long time ago before I got married I was engaged to another woman. When she got pregnant she decided to have an abortion since according to her the time wasn't right for HER. I begged and pleaded with her to at least have the baby and let me raise the child if she didn't want to.

    After the abortion we didn't stay together very long, and to this day I can barely stand to look at her. But I have heard thru mutual friends that she does regret that choice. Because apparently now she cannot have children because something went wrong and she is unable to carry to term, she had 3 miscarriages before giving up.

    Women want the right to choose, but do not want men to have it as well. If you get a woman pregnant by accident weather you want the child or not you will pay child support. No matter if the timing is right for you or not. As fathers we should have a say in the well being of our children.
    Actually it is HER right to abort. She is the one who is pregnant.

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  3. #178  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by nolittdroid View Post
    Actually it is HER right to abort. She is the one who is pregnant.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Android Central Forums
    So since the woman is the one that is pregnant she is carrying a baby, therefore abortion is murder.

    Decisions and choices have consequences, a consequence of having sex is pregnancy. If you don't want to get pregnant either use protection although as far as I know it's not 100% reliable, or just don't have sex unless you are ready to accept the consequences of your actions.
    Last edited by Live2ride883; 01-23-2013 at 03:34 AM.
    I miss my friend Matt McQuinn he touched so many lives, and in the end gave his life to protect someone that he loved. I am proud to have known him, and of the choices he made when it mattered. You were a true hero.

    "You would not fear my weapon unless your intentions were to provoke my using it"
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  4. #179  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    It is interesting to me that the first weapons that are proposed to be banned ("Assault rifles") are the firearms least frequently used in crimes and the ones proposed to be immune from ban such as short barreled hand guns are the firearms most frequently used in crimes.

    Reading through the thread it was also interesting that when asked for a definition of assault rifle or assault weapon, one poster initially didn't answer (something about "I have some ideas but what I think isn't important"). The traditional definition of assault rifle and one of the requirements the DoD has when selecting assault rifles is select-fire - either a burst or a fully automatic mode. Any of those kinds of weapons are already very strictly controlled at the federal level as Class III destructive devices. Purchasing one requires a fairly extended waiting period and at least a $200 transfer tax.

    Asking for a perfectly safe world in which we're able to detect people who might do bad things before they do bad things and removing all tools with which they might be able to do bad things from their access is a pretty tall order. Even if we completely outlawed guns it would take decades for the level of firearms availability to fall significantly to the point that a determined crazy person wouldn't be able to get ahold of one to do something like Sandy Hook. Even if we could make them all vanish tonight there are still going to be tragedies in schools. When asking what the best course of action is it's important to keep that in mind.

    I would suggest increased security in the schools as a first step but I don't think that's actually going to be of any use either. Properly implemented security might help, but it's never going to really be properly implemented and the effect will just be to annoy parents.

    One of the best courses of action against mass shootings might be to simply not publicize them. After Columbine several school shootings referred to Columbine or "Columbine-like" shootings (Virigina Tech for example) when talking about what they were doing. Do everything we can to remove the motivation for school shootings first of all, and one of the motivations certainly does seem to be a desire to duplicate the "success" or fame generated from other school shootings. That's a difficult one to implement because it runs up against freedom of the press.

    I don't really think there is a best course of action available to us, unfortunately.
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  5. #180  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Laws need to punish the parents of these shooters also! Send a couple parents to prison and you will see people securing their firearms better! I grew up with firearms in my house, and they were always locked up! I have firearms and they are always locked up! It all comes back to irresponsible parenting!

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  6. #181  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Also, I would support an increase in the legal age to buy firearms to 25

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  7. #182  
    nrm5110's Avatar

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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cattails_r_Edible View Post
    Also, I would support an increase in the legal age to buy firearms to 25

    Mosquitoes Refuse To Bite Me
    So you're saying adults aren't adults. We really need to decide on a legal age of adulthood because the age to drink would suggest the same notion.

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  8. #183  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cattails_r_Edible View Post
    Also, I would support an increase in the legal age to buy firearms to 25

    Mosquitoes Refuse To Bite Me
    At what age do people become responsible for their own actions?

    You are mature enough at 18 to join the military, in my state you can buy alcohol at 21, drive when you are 15 1/2 (learners permit) and if you are a 13-14 year old girl you can get an abortion....
    I miss my friend Matt McQuinn he touched so many lives, and in the end gave his life to protect someone that he loved. I am proud to have known him, and of the choices he made when it mattered. You were a true hero.

    "You would not fear my weapon unless your intentions were to provoke my using it"
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  9. #184  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by Live2ride883 View Post
    So since the woman is the one that is pregnant she is carrying a baby, therefore abortion is murder.

    Decisions and choices have consequences, a consequence of having sex is pregnancy. If you don't want to get pregnant either use protection although as far as I know it's not 100% reliable, or just don't have sex unless you are ready to accept the consequences of your actions.
    And she dealt with the consequence, which is why you have a choice. A woman doesn't lose the right to her own medical decisions just because she is impregnated by a man who is prolife. Abortion isn't considered murder because a fetus isn't viable until at least 23 weeks.

    Didnt you already say you didn't want to discuss this and get off topic?

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  10. #185  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by nolittdroid View Post
    And she dealt with the consequence, which is why you have a choice. A woman doesn't lose the right to her own medical decisions just because she is impregnated by a man who is prolife. Abortion isn't considered murder because a fetus isn't viable until at least 23 weeks.

    Didnt you already say you didn't want to discuss this and get off topic?

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Android Central Forums
    And the further consequence of her choice is that she can never have children, that she lives with the regret of that choice for the rest of her life. Guess what, she's pro life now too and tries to educate others so they won't make the same mistake. According to you the fetus (baby) isn't viable till 23 weeks, so how is it that a pregnancy test shows + results much sooner.

    While a woman's body remains her own during pregnancy, the body inside her belongs to someone else.

    Honestly even though things ended badly between her and I, at one time I loved her very much. But when you said she was "impregnated by a man who is pro life". It felt cold and heartless, almost sterile like you were taking something from what her and I shared. If nothing else maybe it's time for me to mend that fence, and for that I do thank you.

    You are right I didn't want to discuss this and get off topic, but other's such as yourself kept it going so here we are.
    I miss my friend Matt McQuinn he touched so many lives, and in the end gave his life to protect someone that he loved. I am proud to have known him, and of the choices he made when it mattered. You were a true hero.

    "You would not fear my weapon unless your intentions were to provoke my using it"
  11. #186  
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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by Live2ride883 View Post
    I found this on my FB page today.

    There are two Supreme Court rulings that directly relate to the current anti-Assault Weapon issue everyone needs to be reminded of.

    The first is United States v. Miller 1939. Miller possessed a sawed-off shotgun banned under the National Firearms Act. He argued that he had a right to bear the weapon under the Second Amendment, but the Supreme Court ruled against him. Why? At the time, sawed-off shotguns were not being used in a military application, and the Supremes ruled that since it didn't, it was not protected. Even though Miller lost that argument, the Miller case set the precedent that protected firearms have a military, and thus a legitimate and protected Militia use. The military now uses shotguns regularly, but not very short, sawed-off shotguns, but an AR-15/AK-47 type weapon is currently in use by the military, therefore it is a protected weapon for the Unorganized Militia, which includes just about every American citizen now that both age and sex discrimination are illegal. (The original Militia included men of age 17-45) Therefore any firearm that is applicable to military use is clearly protected under Article II, and that includes all those nasty-looking semi-automatic black rifles, including full 30 round magazines.

    The second important case is that of John Bad Elk v. United States from 1900. In that case, an attempt was made to arrest Mr. Bad Elk without probable cause, and Mr. Bad Elk killed a policeman who was attempting the false arrest. Bad Elk had been found guilty and sentenced to death. However, the Supreme Court ruled that Bad Elk had the right to use any force, including lethal force, to prevent his false arrest, even if the policeman was only trying to arrest him and not kill him. Basically, the Supremes of the day ruled that as a citizen, you have the right to defend against your civil rights being violated using ANY force necessary to prevent the violation, even if the offending party isn't trying to kill you.

    Both of these cases are standing law to this day.

    The Miller decision clearly includes AR-15/AK-47 type weapons as having a military application. The Bad Elk decision means that if the government tries to confiscate your AR-15/AK-47, or arrest you for having one, you can kill the offenders on the spot, even if they are not trying to kill you.
    Can you cite the reference to the "Unorganized Militia"? I'm not having any luck in the case briefings, but I also don't have any dissenting statements available here either.
  12. #187  
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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Hildenbrand View Post
    Truth:
    RPGs are not firearms
    According to whom? You (via NRA-sanctioned talking points)? Or precedent law? Or can't this discussion be taken seriously? As was settled in 1846 as stare decisis, and remains so to this day across the nation, those who chest-thump about their belief in an absolute right to purchase and use any firearm of their choosing are conveniently uninformed about what is supposed to be the foundation of their own belief:

    "The right of the whole people, old and young, men, women and boys, and not militia only, to keep and bear arms of every description, and not such merely as one used by the militia, shall not be infringed, curtailed or broken in upon, in the smallest degree . . . ." Id. at 251 (emphasis in original). - Nunn v. State, 1 Ga. 243 (1846)

    "All that counts is how the words used in the Constitution would have been understood at the time. The original understanding is thus manifested in the words used and in secondary materials, such as debates at the conventions, public discussion, newspaper articles, dictionaries in use at the time, and the like." - Robert Bork/The Tempting of America

    "[t]he Framers of our Constitution were born and brought up in the atmosphere of the common law, and thought and spoke its vocabulary. They were familiar with other forms of government, recent and ancient, and indicated in their discussions earnest study and consideration of many of them; but, when they came to put their conclusions into the form of fundamental law in a compact draft, they expressed themselves in terms of the common law, confident that they could be shortly and easily understood. The language of the Constitution cannot be interpreted safely except by reference to the common law and to British institutions as they were when the instrument was framed and adopted." - Chief Justice Howard Taft

    "On every question of construction let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying what meaning can be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, conform to the probable one which was passed." - Thomas Jefferson

    How much is that shiny new grenade in the window?

    You think you can stop some violent crime by banning a gun that you are afraid of.
    I think there is general agreement that the weapon is not to be feared. The coward hiding behind the trigger is the only thing which unnerves me. As with any manufactured product, there is a critical-mass line which cannot be crossed regarding public safety due to a product's abuse. Where is that line where it regards the FBI's documented record of particular types of weapons used in the murder/homicide of civilians? At what death toll number do we, as a nation, begin to consider that a particular product must stop being produced?

    All you and yours are arguing for is the illusion of a right to bear arms, eg "bumper-sticker, visceral, self-serving political theater". Because the intent of the 2nd Amendment was to remain prepared to thwart any physical, present threat by a standing army present in the streets of the new nation, I have to ask you when was the last time a standing army threatened you and your family in suburbia?

    Think you and your militia buddies have the firepower to conquer any standing army which poses a direct threat to you, including the US army? [Just in case you're still not getting it, this is where the illusion comes in]. You have to recall US history to recognize that the English had their sympathizers (many were English subjects) within the ranks of Washington's Regular army as well as militias of the time, thus a standing US army could have had the capacity of countering US interests. Is this the realistic case today? Absolutely not. When singular incidents have occurred within the armed services in contemporary times which have threatened a military unit or base, have they ever required additional militia (public) forces to secure the peace? Again, absolutely not.

    As far as the comments of others, they are allowed to say things you don't like(EDIT: Such as calling me "troll" and "*****"). As long as the rules of this forum aren't being broken, and they are not, I encourage everyone to post at will.
    Given the intervention by another mod about name-calling, it appears you guys should start singing from the same hymnal. Either that or get less transparent sockpuppets. Peace.
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  13. #188  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by NothingIsTrue View Post
    Can you cite the reference to the "Unorganized Militia"? I'm not having any luck in the case briefings, but I also don't have any dissenting statements available here either.
    It is my opinion that by unorganized militia that they are referring to one not being funded by the state or federal government.

    "Unorganized Militia, which includes just about every American citizen now that both age and sex discrimination are illegal. (The original Militia included men of age 17-45) Therefore any firearm that is applicable to military use is clearly protected under Article II, and that includes all those nasty-looking semi-automatic black rifles, including full 30 round magazines."
    I miss my friend Matt McQuinn he touched so many lives, and in the end gave his life to protect someone that he loved. I am proud to have known him, and of the choices he made when it mattered. You were a true hero.

    "You would not fear my weapon unless your intentions were to provoke my using it"
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  14. #189  
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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    Honest to gawd, if you think you need to carry a weapon every time you leave your house, you need help.
    So you know when you will be held at gun point? Let it be know if you plan on robbing,killing, or hurting someone you must notify them before hand.

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  15. #190  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by BaMaDuDe87 View Post
    So you know when you will be held at gun point? Let it be know if you plan on robbing,killing, or hurting someone you must notify them before hand.
    You bring up a very important point and it's called the "element of surprise". If somebody point a gun in your face and says give me your money, the smart thing to do is give him your money. If you try to pull your weapon, you're dead before you get it half way out.

    Back to my original point, the vast majority of people don't carry guns and aren't afraid to leave their house without one. You have all these crazy alarmist like Alex Jones filling the air waves with fear and profiting from it.
    Last edited by palandri; 01-24-2013 at 01:36 PM.
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  16. #191  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    While deaths by firearms go down in societies with total gun control the violent crime rates are much higher in those countries. Its a people problem...if its not a gun, its a knife, or bomb, or baseball bat. They will find another way. Cars kill way more people than guns. Should we ban cars?

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  17. #192  
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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by Synycalwon View Post
    You're right that it is not the weapon to be feared, it is the person behind it. So why are we not addressing that instead of looking to ban things? Because if weíre serious about banning deadly weapons, why not talk about automobiles? They kill more innocent people, including children, every single day than anything else. Where is the critical mass line there? When are we going to stop producing those weapons? Why isnít there an outcry regarding them? Why arenít the media and politicians on their bully pulpits driving (no pun intended) that issue home? Because it doesnít serve their interest in trying to change the second amendment. That should tell you all you need to know. We really need to stop allowing the media and politicians to dictate the agenda.
    Try, just for once, to compare apples to apples. When comparing statistical deaths due to a firearm, why not try something completely whacky like comparing it to another device designed to be used as weapon. The FBI knows better than to compare horses to mules. Why don't you? This abused defensive line of yours is irresponsible.

    Knock yourself out and compare the FBI stats of total incidents of vehicular homicide with murder/homicide via the firearm of your choice. Go for it. It's your losing proposition, after all.
  18. #193  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    To my knowledge no one here said they were afraid to leave their home without a weapon. I stated that I never left my home without one and a few people agreed with me.
    I miss my friend Matt McQuinn he touched so many lives, and in the end gave his life to protect someone that he loved. I am proud to have known him, and of the choices he made when it mattered. You were a true hero.

    "You would not fear my weapon unless your intentions were to provoke my using it"
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  19. #194  
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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    When you would rather leave it to be stolen in your car than leave it home for a trip outside, it is a sign of fear in my opinion.

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  20. #195  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by piizzadude View Post
    When you would rather leave it to be stolen in your car than leave it home for a trip outside, it is a sign of fear in my opinion.

    Sent from the nexus of the Android world, the SGS3.
    You act like I just leave it laying on my seat for anyone to walk by and steal. It is in a vehicle gun safe, which is secured to the chassis of my truck. I know people that have guns in their homes that do not even have a gun safe. To me that is irresponsible.

    Making me responsible for the action's of a hypothetical thief is no better than all these people that want to blame the gun and not the shooter.
    I miss my friend Matt McQuinn he touched so many lives, and in the end gave his life to protect someone that he loved. I am proud to have known him, and of the choices he made when it mattered. You were a true hero.

    "You would not fear my weapon unless your intentions were to provoke my using it"
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  21. #196  

    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Murder is already legal, criminals don't give a flip about gun regulations and they ALWAYS had for gun free zones, just sayin'

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  22. #197  
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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by Live2ride883 View Post
    You act like I just leave it laying on my seat for anyone to walk by and steal. It is in a vehicle gun safe, which is secured to the chassis of my truck. I know people that have guns in their homes that do not even have a gun safe. To me that is irresponsible.

    Making me responsible for the action's of a hypothetical thief is no better than all these people that want to blame the gun and not the shooter.
    Leave a gun out of you control is irresponsible. We covered it already.

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  23. #198  
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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by Synycalwon View Post
    Dude, what are you talking about? You are making baseless allegations on hypothetical scenarios that do NOT apply to the person you're responding to. You have no leg to stand on what so ever. Please stop.
    Sort of like comparing vehicular accidents which result in death with the incidence of murder/homicide by firearm?
  24. #199  
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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by Live2ride883 View Post

    Every shooter in these mass shooters is either a criminal or a mental health patient. In all cases the laws on the books did nothing to stop them from getting the guns.
    This argument proves little. X happened so no law stopped it from happening. The law didn't work in those circumstances. Does that mean we give up and conclude that because Set A of laws didn't work than no set of laws can work? Make perfection the enemy of the good?

    Also, this argument ignores the times when the laws DID prevent someone dangerous from getting a gun.

    John Smith drove after drinking and killed Mary Joe. This happens every day. In all cases the laws on the books did nothing to stop them from drinking and driving. But Bob Jones saw the billboards about drinking and driving and was worried about getting pulled over so he called a cab. Do we throw out all the drunk driving laws and ignore their deterrent effect? Homicide laws are also broken at times. In all those murders the laws DID NOTHING to stop the murder. Guess they're not perfect, so let's throw up our hands and get rid of them?

    When laws are not as effective as desired you can do two things: give up or try to change the laws to increase their effectiveness. I would hope giving up is the last resort. If giving up was how we usually reacted, we'd have significantly fewer laws on the books. Have some pride and faith in your fellow Americans; sometimes things can be fixed.
    Last edited by whatwhat; 01-24-2013 at 04:25 PM.
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  25. #200  
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    Default Re: What do you think the best course of action is against mass shootings in schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by Synycalwon View Post
    ......and that do NOT align with the fundamentals this country was founded on.
    Unfortunately for your argument, you've demonstrated no such knowledge. Bumper-sticker catchphrases, notwithstanding.
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