Is the Note 7 still waterproof if I have the pen out and am using it?

natehoy

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Re: Is it Still Waterproof if...

I'm only using my phone in the shower and home pools lol.

The shower may actually be a problem, though. The water ingress rating in IP is not "bigger number is better".

IPx7 and IPx8 address immersion in still water only. IPx1-6 address protection against moving water. In order to use it in the shower you would want at LEAST an IPx3 rating.

Using it in the pool (as long as you dunk it gently) - pen in or out - is likely perfectly fine, though Sammy probably has some legalese that says "don't do what we show you in our ads for this phone as it will void your warranty" so you might have a struggle if you get a defective unit. There is no more truth in advertising any more, sadly. But at least it has been tested and you can be reasonably confident it works.

The shower is a very different story. Moving water puts more pressure on gaskets and seals, and without a 1-6 rating you have no guarantee it has been tested against those pressures.
 

PlaybookFanatic

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Thanks. I think everyone has a solid understanding that what you've said it's reality. At the same time, let people discuss the IP68 feature of this phone without derailing the thread each time. Maybe we could have a sticky where you just repeat that it's water RESISTANT and not water PROOF? Thanks for making sure people know this, because it is important. But I think everyone is covered now.

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Exactly. It's extremely annoying each and every time, and detracts from folks wanting to participate in the forums (it turned me off).

But I am wondering what your thoughts on the whole matter of IP68, and the way it's being presented?
 

PlaybookFanatic

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The shower may actually be a problem, though. The water ingress rating in IP is not "bigger number is better".

IPx7 and IPx8 address immersion in still water only. IPx1-6 address protection against moving water. In order to use it in the shower you would want at LEAST an IPx3 rating.

Using it in the pool (as long as you dunk it gently) - pen in or out - is likely perfectly fine, though Sammy probably has some legalese that says "don't do what we show you in our ads for this phone as it will void your warranty" so you might have a struggle if you get a defective unit. There is no more truth in advertising any more, sadly. But at least it has been tested and you can be reasonably confident it works.

The shower is a very different story. Moving water puts more pressure on gaskets and seals, and without a 1-6 rating you have no guarantee it has been tested against those pressures.

That's interesting. I wonder why they'd do that. I take my phones in the bathroom/shower with me now, so I know this one SHOULD be up to the task. But as always, I'll be careful/aware.
 

natehoy

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That's interesting. I wonder why they'd do that. I take my phones in the bathroom/shower with me now, so I know this one SHOULD be up to the task. But as always, I'll be careful/aware.

The IPx1-6 / IPx7-8 issue has been very confusing to a great number of people for a long time.

I guess someone at some point thought it would be simpler to just make a new category starting at "7" to cover a completely new kind of test (immersion). Personally, I think it would have been more logical to add a third digit, but (probably thankfully) no one ever put me in charge of setting standards, because the mistakes I'd make would be much larger than that. LOL

The upshot is that the IP68 rating is great, because as long as the manufacturer makes units consistently and backs up that rating with a warranty, that means you can take pictures in the pool, which is awesome, and you can do so with the S-Pen out.

It will *probably* survive the shower. But we're not talking even, consistent, low pressures. We're talking higher pressures at specific points because the water is moving.

Think of it this way: Set a smooth 5-pound brick gently on your phone screen. No worries. Very low pounds per square inch and the chances of damage are extremely low. Now take a half-pound ball bearing and drop it from 12 inches. 1/10 the weight, but the momentum adds force, and the concentration of that force into one place means your chances of damaging screen are much, much higher.

Same basic thing is happening with water. Streams of water under pressure can get through a barrier that a still body of water cannot. And vice versa. That's why there are two ratings. It just sucks that they are covered under a single number.

90% chance you are fine in the shower, or running the tap over your phone to rinse it off. Engineers tend to try to build to a better spec than they need to. But it's not rated for that at all.
 

PlaybookFanatic

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Re: Is it Still Waterproof if...

The IPx1-6 / IPx7-8 issue has been very confusing to a great number of people for a long time.

I guess someone at some point thought it would be simpler to just make a new category starting at "7" to cover a completely new kind of test (immersion). Personally, I think it would have been more logical to add a third digit, but (probably thankfully) no one ever put me in charge of setting standards, because the mistakes I'd make would be much larger than that. LOL

The upshot is that the IP68 rating is great, because as long as the manufacturer makes units consistently and backs up that rating with a warranty, that means you can take pictures in the pool, which is awesome, and you can do so with the S-Pen out.

It will *probably* survive the shower. But we're not talking even, consistent, low pressures. We're talking higher pressures at specific points because the water is moving.

Think of it this way: Set a smooth 5-pound brick gently on your phone screen. No worries. Very low pounds per square inch and the chances of damage are extremely low. Now take a half-pound ball bearing and drop it from 12 inches. 1/10 the weight, but the momentum adds force, and the concentration of that force into one place means your chances of damaging screen are much, much higher.

Same basic thing is happening with water. Streams of water under pressure can get through a barrier that a still body of water cannot. And vice versa. That's why there are two ratings. It just sucks that they are covered under a single number.

90% chance you are fine in the shower, or running the tap over your phone to rinse it off. Engineers tend to try to build to a better spec than they need to. But it's not rated for that at all.

And that's how I've always understood it. I just wish the companies would be more transparent with this and how they want to handle warranties.

My biggest question is: can I take a picture underwater in the pool, or not? I know you shouldn't do it OFTEN, but you can...right?
 

beh

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Re: Is it Still Waterproof if...

You are annoyingly pretentious. The OP asked a question that was/is extremely relevant, and you decided to do everything BUT answerthe question. People like you make it hard for people to want to ask questions here because of attitudes like this.

In other news...

Theoretically, the phone can fall in the water with the pen out and be fine, OP. And quite honestly, I'd love to take mine to the pool with me every now and again...and intend to do just that! :)

I agree with your analysis but would not call someone "annoyingly pretentious". NOT:cool:
In my experience many folks can't tell the difference between answering the question asked and sermonizing. :p
 

PlaybookFanatic

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I agree with your analysis but would not call someone "annoyingly pretentious". :cool: In my experience many folks can't tell the difference between answering the question asked and sermonizing. :p

I had just woke up, so it's the first thing I thought. LOL But thanks for understanding what I was saying.
 

LegalAmerican

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Re: Is it Still Waterproof if...

Exactly. It's extremely annoying each and every time, and detracts from folks wanting to participate in the forums (it turned me off).

But I am wondering what your thoughts on the whole matter of IP68, and the way it's being presented?

Mixed feelings. I think Samsung does a fantastic job, but they need to cover water damage. It's tough, I get it. Because some idiots out there will do stupid tests to push the limits, and then expect Samsung to replace it. Or they'll lie about it and say there weren't doing what they were.

At the same time, you advertise water resistance as a primary feature, and even have display models submerged for people to use, you have to expect you'll replace a few damaged devices. It would be nice if they had some sort of pressure sensor inside that they could tap into on damaged devices to see if the user had submerged the phone in water too deep.

And I've never had a water RESISTANT device before, so I kinda like talking about it and how it could be useful without people constantly stating the obvious and destroying the conversation flow to do so.

Posted via the Android Central App
 

PlaybookFanatic

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Mixed feelings. I think Samsung does a fantastic job, but they need to cover water damage. It's tough, I get it. Because some idiots out there will do stupid tests to push the limits, and then expect Samsung to replace it. Or they'll lie about it and say there weren't doing what they were.

At the same time, you advertise water resistance as a primary feature, and even have display models submerged for people to use, you have to expect you'll replace a few damaged devices. It would be nice if they had some sort of pressure sensor inside that they could tap into on damaged devices to see if the user had submerged the phone in water too deep.

And I've never had a water RESISTANT device before, so I kinda like talking about it and how it could be useful without people constantly stating the obvious and destroying the conversation flow to do so.

Posted via the Android Central App

I agree with all of this.
 

Kelly Kearns

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Re: Is it Still Waterproof if...

Mixed feelings. I think Samsung does a fantastic job, but they need to cover water damage. It's tough, I get it. Because some idiots out there will do stupid tests to push the limits, and then expect Samsung to replace it. Or they'll lie about it and say there weren't doing what they were.

At the same time, you advertise water resistance as a primary feature, and even have display models submerged for people to use, you have to expect you'll replace a few damaged devices. It would be nice if they had some sort of pressure sensor inside that they could tap into on damaged devices to see if the user had submerged the phone in water too deep.

And I've never had a water RESISTANT device before, so I kinda like talking about it and how it could be useful without people constantly stating the obvious and destroying the conversation flow to do so.

Posted via the Android Central App

Not a problem in the world talking about it at all. Talk and talk about it.

No one is discouraging you from talking about it. Samsung goes dramatic on their commercials and their fine print generally says more.

The biggest thing it says and they said, water damage is a warranty void. Right now they are replacing some S7 Actives but people aren't satisfied with the answers they are getting. They are doing that because Samsung identified a defect.

You can discuss it all day long, you can put your phone in the bathtub. I relayed what Samsung said about water damage and the S7 and Note 7 specifically. I answered the OP about the spen, I answered the questions about why the water damage would put it out of warranty, I never said don't discuss.

So again, if you want to discuss me also please do so in inbox, that derails a convo always.
 

natehoy

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Re: Is it Still Waterproof if...

And that's how I've always understood it. I just wish the companies would be more transparent with this and how they want to handle warranties.

My biggest question is: can I take a picture underwater in the pool, or not? I know you shouldn't do it OFTEN, but you can...right?

Technical answer: The phone is advertised as rated for doing this, so yes, you absolutely should be able to use it, S-Pen in or out, in the pool.

Warranty answer: You'd have to see the terms of your warranty to see if Samsung would honor that technical rating with a replacement if you got a defective unit that was not made properly IP68 water resistant and tried to use it in the water. I suspect the answer will be full of things lawyers would say when they say "no"
 

natehoy

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For what it's worth, which ain't much, here's my take on water resistant phones - they are great for accidental splashes but I personally do not use them for anything more than that.

If you want to take pictures underwater, you are far better off buying a relatively inexpensive water resistant camera. They are small, light, and if the water resistance fails (or simply if you drop it overboard!) you are out a whole boatload less money.

Is it convenient to carry one device that is water resistant and takes great pictures that you already have with you? Absolutely.

SHOULD you be able to trust that your lovely new $900 device, marketed as water resistant, can be used for things that are advertised on TV by the manufacturer? 100% heck to the YES!

Manufacturers will honor warranties reluctantly if at all, and Sammy has a long history of being, well, not necessarily one of the best in that arena.

But even when I have owned really nice water resistant phones with great cameras, if I was going somewhere I knew there would be water, I always throw my Lumix water resistant camera in the beach bag, and the phone stays in a clear dry sack if it is used at all.
 

PlaybookFanatic

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Technical answer: The phone is advertised as rated for doing this, so yes, you absolutely should be able to use it, S-Pen in or out, in the pool.

Warranty answer: You'd have to see the terms of your warranty to see if Samsung would honor that technical rating with a replacement if you got a defective unit that was not made properly IP68 water resistant and tried to use it in the water. I suspect the answer will be full of things lawyers would say when they say "no"

How unfortunate. Will you use yours in the water?
 

PlaybookFanatic

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For what it's worth, which ain't much, here's my take on water resistant phones - they are great for accidental splashes but I personally do not use them for anything more than that.

If you want to take pictures underwater, you are far better off buying a relatively inexpensive water resistant camera. They are small, light, and if the water resistance fails (or simply if you drop it overboard!) you are out a whole boatload less money.

Is it convenient to carry one device that is water resistant and takes great pictures that you already have with you? Absolutely.

SHOULD you be able to trust that your lovely new $900 device, marketed as water resistant, can be used for things that are advertised on TV by the manufacturer? 100% heck to the YES!

Manufacturers will honor warranties reluctantly if at all, and Sammy has a long history of being, well, not necessarily one of the best in that arena.

But even when I have owned really nice water resistant phones with great cameras, if I was going somewhere I knew there would be water, I always throw my Lumix water resistant camera in the beach bag, and the phone stays in a clear dry sack if it is used at all.

This answered my previous question lol
 

dsignori

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Re: Is it Still Waterproof if...

How unfortunate. Will you use yours in the water?


Whether you CAN or SHOULD use it underwater might be up for debate it appears. But I definitely WON'T be. For me, it's as simple as: Why would I possibly take that risk? There are dozens of $99 waterproof cams around - I have one - that can be used for this kind of activity. If that $99 device breaks for some reason, I won't care much. It isn't something I use every day, or need in any way. If the phone dies, it is so much more important to me, so much more expensive - and even if a replacement is covered - so much more of a hassle to fix/replace then a little waterproof video- cam.

I am so glad this device has IP68 for accidental spills or splashes ( I have a pool), but there is no way ever I will be intentionally using it in the water.
 

PlaybookFanatic

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Whether you CAN or SHOULD use it underwater might be up for debate it appears. But I definitely WON'T be. For me, it's as simple as: Why would I possibly take that risk? There are dozens of $99 waterproof cams around - I have one - that can be used for this kind of activity. If that $99 device breaks for some reason, I won't care much. It isn't something I use every day, or need in any way. If the phone dies, it is so much more important to me, so much more expensive - and even if a replacement is covered - so much more of a hassle to fix/replace then a little waterproof video- cam.

I am so glad this device has IP68 for accidental spills or splashes ( I have a pool), but there is no way ever I will be intentionally using it in the water.

All very true. I'm not sure where I'm using mine yet. It's all very interesting & exciting.
 

Android Optimizer

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Re: Is it Still Waterproof if...

Is the Note 7 still waterproof if I have the pen out and am using it? I ask because that would mean there's an open hole on the bottom on the phone, not sure if it would still be waterproofed.

From the way you state it I'm guessing you think that because the pen comes out of the hole water could get in the hole, and from within the hole into the phone. Just because there is a hole that doesn't mean the area inside that hole has access or an opening to any other area inside that phone. The hole could very well be a separate area that is completely enclosed plastic/rubber/etc that has a solid layer of plastic/rubber/etc between it and any internal area of the phone. In other words it could be a self contained compartment.

If someone is going into a store with a demo phone, or has a test phone take a flash light and shine it in the hole, and let us know what you see inside.
 

calicocat2010

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I watched the unveiling of the Note 7 online on August 2nd. They show a clip of how they sealed the phone. At what time frame, I don't know but you will get a good idea of how it's sealed.
 

PRGDR

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Re: Is it Still Waterproof if...

So, if I understand correctly, the IP68 rating does not depend on the S-pen being inserted in the device or not. Is that correct?

(it is hard to read this thread with all the ego-fights...)