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  1. Thread Author  Thread Author    #1  

    Default Does anyone ever see Google trying to improve fragmentation?

    The way things have been for my past two Android devices (Epic and Hero), I have been considering switching platforms because of how badly Android is fragmeneted. The only thing keeping me on Android is the weath of free apps. Had webOS had the wealth of apps and support, I'd still be using my Pre.

    My question is does anyone forsee Google working on reducing the fragmentation of the Androi platform, or do they just plan on cashing on people who want the latest and greatest devices?
  2. #2  

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    What fragmentation?
  3. #3  
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    Fragmentation is a term coined by Apples CEO. Android was/is AOSP from the start. It was never a closed system, and therefor nothing was ever fragmented. iOS is designed for one set of hardware and is closed. If iOS became OSP, that could be considered fragging it because of its origin. Open source projects are NOT fragmented. They are intended to be tweaked by devs from the very start.

    It is only a matter of preference.
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    I know what fragmentation means, I just haven't yet seen any actual consequence of this fragmentation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by awesomo4308 View Post
    I know what fragmentation means, I just haven't yet seen any actual consequence of this fragmentation.
    I could not tell by your question, Fair enough sir!
  6. #6  

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    Here's a story. It's fictional of course, but read it anyway

    Today I was at the Comcast store to buy a new Laptop. Got myself a really nice BrandX, and brought it home and hooked it up.

    When I turned it on, I saw all this crap from Comcast installed, so I went to uninstall it. But I couldn't. It kept asking for some sort of admin privileges that I don't have.

    I got on the internet, and went to this website called Comcast Central. They showed me how to get admin access, and I got rid of the Comcast apps I didn't want. But I saw that Windows 7 sp3 is available, and my laptop only runs Windows 7 sp1. I want to upgrade bad, because everyone says Windows 7 sp3 is a lot better. Comcast says they have no word on when I can update using the software that is included to handle OS updates. Neither does BrandX.

    But that's OK. Comcast Central told me how I can download Windows 7 sp3 and install it myself. But I need a sound card driver from BrandX. Even though I paid cash for the hardware, they won't give me the software to run it on anything other that Windows 7 sp1 + all their crappy software that I don't want to use. So I either have to use my new laptop on an old version of the software, or do it myself and not have all the hardware working.

    I blame Microsoft for this fragmentation.
    Ring a bell anyone? Android is not fragmented. There is only one version, the latest, and it's up and published for anyone to download and install. Work on earlier versions is done, they only exist as a sort of history.

    If you don't have the latest on your device, blame the people you gave your money to. They are 100% responsible for the hold-up, and unfortunately they make it damn near impossible to load it up yourself.

    Want to be mad at Google for something? Then be mad they are taking so long to test the latest version on the Nexus One -- but at least they are more than helpful, and will even answer questions about how to do it yourself should you wish to use it with its current issues.
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    Couldn't say it better...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnly View Post
    Fragmentation is a term coined by Apples CEO. Android was/is AOSP from the start. It was never a closed system, and therefor nothing was ever fragmented. iOS is designed for one set of hardware and is closed. If iOS became OSP, that could be considered fragging it because of its origin. Open source projects are NOT fragmented. They are intended to be tweaked by devs from the very start.

    It is only a matter of preference.
    Thanks for explaining this! Makes sense now. I was wondering what this fragmentation was all about. I heard it on CrackBerry about Android.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gbhil View Post
    Here's a story. It's fictional of course, but read it anyway



    Ring a bell anyone? Android is not fragmented. There is only one version, the latest, and it's up and published for anyone to download and install. Work on earlier versions is done, they only exist as a sort of history.

    If you don't have the latest on your device, blame the people you gave your money to. They are 100% responsible for the hold-up, and unfortunately they make it damn near impossible to load it up yourself.

    Want to be mad at Google for something? Then be mad they are taking so long to test the latest version on the Nexus One -- but at least they are more than helpful, and will even answer questions about how to do it yourself should you wish to use it with its current issues.
    Thanks Jerry, good to see you in these parts even though I know damn well you'll never touch a Samsung Galaxy phone. I do wish I could have an AOSP phone, but I occasionally do travel to 4G territory (I'm there now). I have found the GB theme to be exceptional for visual appeal.
  10. Thread Author  Thread Author    #10  

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    So everyone here is basically saying "if you want an up-to-date OS bad enough you can learn how to develop and throw it on your phone yourself because Google provides the tools for you to do so".....right? What about the drivers we need from Samsung or whoever produces our devices?

    I still don't understand how everyone is giving excuses to accept the fact that people are getting left behind so fast as far as updates go. I understand that Android is open source, but there should still be SOME regulation if the consumer were truly in mind. A lot of the apps and features of Android that draw people to the platform are locked away, forcing them to buy new phones just to get features that were promised to them from the start. I'm sorry, but that is just wrong, and although it is not Google DOING IT, it is still THEIR operating system.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrdatrackstar View Post
    So everyone here is basically saying "if you want an up-to-date OS bad enough you can learn how to develop and throw it on your phone yourself because Google provides the tools for you to do so".....right? What about the drivers we need from Samsung or whoever produces our devices?

    I still don't understand how everyone is giving excuses to accept the fact that people are getting left behind so fast as far as updates go. I understand that Android is open source, but there should still be SOME regulation if the consumer were truly in mind. A lot of the apps and features of Android that draw people to the platform are locked away, forcing them to buy new phones just to get features that were promised to them from the start. I'm sorry, but that is just wrong, and although it is not Google DOING IT, it is still THEIR operating system.
    Apple is regulated....we will regulate our own just fine What features of Android are locked away? Who is forcing any one to buy a new phone? Last I checked, 16 month old Android users were running the latest and greatest with flash 10.1. Um, yeah, join in.
  12. #12  

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    Quote Originally Posted by jrdatrackstar View Post
    So everyone here is basically saying "if you want an up-to-date OS bad enough you can learn how to develop and throw it on your phone yourself because Google provides the tools for you to do so".....right? What about the drivers we need from Samsung or whoever produces our devices?
    No. We're saying that Google has nothing to do with it. They don't make phones, they write software for other people to install on the phones, then sell them to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by jrdatrackstar View Post
    I still don't understand how everyone is giving excuses to accept the fact that people are getting left behind so fast as far as updates go. I understand that Android is open source, but there should still be SOME regulation if the consumer were truly in mind. A lot of the apps and features of Android that draw people to the platform are locked away, forcing them to buy new phones just to get features that were promised to them from the start. I'm sorry, but that is just wrong, and although it is not Google DOING IT, it is still THEIR operating system.
    Android is open source. There is nothing Google can do to restrict it's use even if they wanted to. You want to blame someone, blame the people who locked you into a two year contract and refuse to update your phone. Let them worry about dealing with the manufacturer to satisfy you. But Google wont, cant, and shouldnt.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrdatrackstar View Post
    So everyone here is basically saying "if you want an up-to-date OS bad enough you can learn how to develop and throw it on your phone yourself because Google provides the tools for you to do so".....right? What about the drivers we need from Samsung or whoever produces our devices?

    I still don't understand how everyone is giving excuses to accept the fact that people are getting left behind so fast as far as updates go. I understand that Android is open source, but there should still be SOME regulation if the consumer were truly in mind. A lot of the apps and features of Android that draw people to the platform are locked away, forcing them to buy new phones just to get features that were promised to them from the start. I'm sorry, but that is just wrong, and although it is not Google DOING IT, it is still THEIR operating system.
    You obviously can't read. Don't blame Google. They can't do anything about it. Be mad at the companies directly responsible, Samsung AND Sprint. Its both of their faults. Sprint isn't exactly thrilled about long term support of a device, they want you to buy another phone, and extend your contract. Samsung has a reputation to save, and they obviously don't care enough about it. Samsung doesn't need to release the code for the drivers for Froyo for us to get it to work, we just need good developers to want to take the time to reverse engineer them. The Hero has working and functional Gingerbread... yet Sprint said it wouldn't be supported past Eclair. Devs took the time to reverse engineer the drivers. I remember going through daily builds and little by little, more things worked, like the LED status light and bluetooth and what not. Our problem is that we were told 2.2 would be out soon MONTHs ago, so no one took the initiative to reverse engineer the drivers. Now it seems like it SHOULD be out soon enough. Noobnl has stated he's pretty much done working on getting MMS to work on CyanogenMod until the drivers are released. I blame our community as well. We have one of the crappiest ones to date with all the crying and whining going on. I stopped frequenting the sites because of it. I used to be an extremely active member here (check my post count). But because we get nothing but people who complain day in and day out, its not worth coming here as often as most of the people's problems is User error, but instead of asking for help, say, "FU Samsung and your POS Hardware." I haven't had any issues whatsoever on the phone. GPS works as advertised (compass doesn't, but I don't use Google Sky Map anyway).
  14. #14  

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    Its all just like a card game you play in casino. Google always publishes a latest version of android, its up to the manufactures and carriers if they want to keep up with the game or not (keep all their products up to date, and that doesnt help to sell new incoming ones or stop supporting the old ones to focus on selling the new ones). If they decide to play as a good seller, then you are happy, or a bad seller and make you cry. Now its up to you if you want to be a good customer or a bad one. Sometimes, life is all about a choice you make and a reason why you make that choice.

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    Jerry you summed it up just right, no need to explain anymore. If users can't understand what is going on by now then they probably will not ever understand. Android is the future. I'm not saying RIM/iPhone/MS are going anywhere tomorrow but they have locked people down with their OS's. I love having the freedom to do as I chose and have a Market with so many free apps available. The open SDK tools and software, what more could you ask for?

    All I know is Google/Android have something going the right direction or people wouldn't be coming over to Android like they have been for the last year. Now we have the latest numbers to back it up, here online in reports and even on the 10 pm news today about Android OS and their 4th quarter numbers being a top 5 story tonight on Chicago TV next to the freakin blizzard coming.

    As Jerry said you can't blame Google, they just write the code and its up to the device makers to do with it as they please. Those are the ones to point the fingers at. You pick your own poison when you go with certain devices/manufacturers but that is you choice. Nobody is telling you to stay on Android, I'm sure if you go to AT &T tomorrow and tell them you want to defect from Android to iPhone they will cut you a nice deal.

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  16. #16  

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    I still haven't heard of any specific fragmentation issues besides old phones not getting updates (and how is that different than older iphones not getting all of the new features of the latest generation?)

    Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk
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    I always thought that fragmentation was the insult the iSheep hurl when someone pointed out how their ecosystem was locked down and they had no choice in hardware. Like we should all let some "benevolent" leader tell us what a phone should be and what apps we should be allowed to buy.

    Kind of like a conservative calling a liberal a socialist.
  18. #18  
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    If its not up to Google, who's responsible for the Nexus devices?
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    The best way to eliminate the frag is to get a Nexus phone.
    The rest of us just have to wait on the phone manufactures & carriers on updates or at least leaked updates aka DK28. I am sure that motoblur, touchwiz, sense etc.. all exist because the mfg feels it sets their phone apart. I personanlly would rather the mfg release their UIs as a download like launcher pro, adw, etc and release the phones with more of a pure google approach but with their carrier specific programs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by awesomo4308 View Post
    I still haven't heard of any specific fragmentation issues besides old phones not getting updates (and how is that different than older iphones not getting all of the new features of the latest generation?)

    Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk
    Right? I am waiting for that issue to arrise as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by narf View Post
    I always thought that fragmentation was the insult the iSheep hurl when someone pointed out how their ecosystem was locked down and they had no choice in hardware. Like we should all let some "benevolent" leader tell us what a phone should be and what apps we should be allowed to buy.

    Kind of like a conservative calling a liberal a socialist.
    Correct
  21. #21  

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    Sigh...

    I understand what Open Source means... but do you think the MILLIONS of people buying an android phone knows exactly what that means? Go from a stock Android device like the OG droid to the Droid X (hey it's still Moto right?) and you may walk away confused... as a user due to the motoblur(ish) interface. Try LG or Samsung- and their slapped on launcher confuses people further. NOW add in inconsistent screen resolutions like the droid pro or the lower end android phones- and go talk to a MAJOR game developer and ASK THEM what they think of THAT and Android.

    How about the recent interview with EPIC Games' Jay Wilbur about game development on IOS compared to Android - you can google it in minutes- it's a pretty major statement coming from Epic when they say hardware AND the google marketplace is fragmented compared to iOS from a dev's point of view: "iOS just works". Does that mean we can't expect Epic games on Android? What if other major devs begin to feel the same?

    I came from Web OS because I saw most devs weren't coming to the platform and certain aspects of the OS were hands off much like IOS. I come to Android only to find ZERO consistency across handsets. Why didn't the Galaxy S natively support VCF files until 2.2? (Something Palm has done since the 1990's?!) Why can carriers, and device manufacturers apply their own means to access core functionality of the phone like contacts and calendar- yet on iphone they cannot- yet they're still able to offer a subsidized phone?

    Everyone says HTC supports the user the best- and I'd have to agree- they seem to ADD missing features rather than offer poor alternatives- but I hate how widgets are tied to the launcher of all phones and I really want a 5x5 layout and I hate the sense dock- so I have to choose between a useless dock and unnecessary waste of space (4x4 layout on a 4.3" phone) or go without all those helpful widgets they give you. At Least on HTC you get PC sync, backup options, more robust Exchange support than even native android, a better webbrowser etc... but why must I only get this value added from HTC?

    To say the "android experience" isn't fragmented from both a consumer and developer standpoint is frankly IGNORANT and there's no sign of it improving.

    Unfortunately, you're forced to choose- either go closed like WP7 and iphone, or go "open" with Android and put up with it's quirks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lornaevo View Post
    If its not up to Google, who's responsible for the Nexus devices?
    As I said, be mad at Google for the N1 taking extra time. I wish they would release it buggy and not working well, then update it when it's better, but I don't make that decision. So I took an hour and did it myself. Since others have done it and were nice enough to share their work, you can do it in even less time.

    But you're not going to be very happy with the phone stack or camera, because they don't work very well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lornaevo View Post
    If its not up to Google, who's responsible for the Nexus devices?
    In terms of updates, aren't they the first?
  24. #24  

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    I think what many people forget is that android as an OS is still in its infancy. Google decoupled a lot of the core programs from the OS in 2.2 because they wanted to be able to update them on a piece by piece basis, and I suspect that as the OS matures they will do more things like this so that they can further update the functional parts of the OS without carriers and manufacturers needing to step in.

    I'm also really sick of people putting iOS on a pedestal and saying that it isn't fragmented. I was at one time an owner of an iphone 3g, and even before ios 4 came out and broke it, I was constantly frustrated by how more and more "apps" were coded with the iphone 3gs in mind, leaving legacy users in the dust.

    When iOS 4 came out and ruined the phone, it took months for apple to fix the issue, and even with the "fixed" version, crucial features like multitasking were never ported over. Sure, from an OS standpoint I was on the same version as all of the fancy iphone 4's, but functionally the phone felt no different than it did when I originally got it. It'd be as if the epic got upgraded to 2.2 or 2.3, but they disabled all of the added bonuses in these updates.
  25. #25  

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    I think the one thing Google could do is work to make sure at least one Nexus device is available on every carrier so we can truly vote with our wallets. I would get a Nexus device in a heartbeat if it were available on Sprint.

    Otherwise, yep, blame the carriers and manufacturers, not Google.
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