Wish Android was as Open as webOS

[Biggnaa20]

Part of the reason the procedure was different is that "developer mode" on the Pre WASN'T root access, not the same way we have it. Remember all the things the Pre failed at that WebOS Internals just COULDN'T fix, without "an updated SDK from Palm"? Like the inability to open pdfs for instance? See, on a truly rooted system, they could have released an updated ROM we could have all flashed that would have fixed Palm's failures. But that sort of thing never happened, because the devs didn't have the same level of access. At least, that's how I understand it.

I've heard it said that the "patches" we could apply via preware were more like themeing Android... They changed the look of things, but didn't often change the way things fundamentally worked. Hence, the reason the devs couldn't actually fix things.

WebOS wasn't an open sourced system until recently. That conversion is still going on and we'll see if that really changes how end users can interact with the system. My argument is that it was easier to get in and change the things you wanted to change without overhauling everything. I frankly think of Android as being an open system for the carriers (which are Google's true customers here). It's not really meant to be open for the average Joe.

I also respectfully disagree with your perception of patching. The ones I used changed or added functionality (adding a flashlight, adding options to the launcher and browser, changing how the phone worked, overclocking, etc). We could theme through preware as well, but that was different than patching.

nnb

 

[Stearmandriver]

I think Android WAS intended to be open for the average Joe... but the carriers don't like that and try to restrict it. That's why the pure android phones are so easy to root, but the phones with carrier and/or manufacturer skinning are a bit more challenging.

That being said, this phone is extremely easy to root and customize these days. sfhub's one-click Odin packages are about as easy as it gets! And it's certainly not an "overhaul everything" proposition. My phone is rooted, running the stock EL29 rom. The one and only tweak I've made is the hotspot hack. That's the single reason I rooted. I'm not running a custom ROM or kernel. I've done that with other android phones... this one just doesn't require it. I'm perfectly happy with its stock performance. So we can very definitely - and easily - pick and choose which tweaks we want.

Almost all the patches you listed are things that are available in the android market, WITHOUT rooting. Flashlight? Dozens. Launchers and browsers? Many to choose from, very customizable. Customizable dialers? Plenty. None of it requires root.

Overclocking is a bit different, but the way I understand it, it deals with the kernel, not so much the ROM. So, I still think the WebOS devs never had the same level of access to the system - which is why they couldn't fix the real problems with it. My pre was patched and themed all to heck.. but it still couldn't perform some basic smartphone functions like opening a pdf. No real surprise Palm failed, with that kind of performance.

 

[DirkBelig]

When someone comes in and tries to smear the entire Android OS because it's funky to root some phones, I want to ask them to get back under their bridge. Android as closed as iOS? Puh-leeze!

As for why carriers lock down phones, the reason is simple (and not just "greed" which is the lazy scapegoat for anything corporations do): Carriers have to support their phones and letting users run riot and screw things up means calls to the support line and higher costs, thus lower profits. (O noes! He's defending corporations making profits!) If someone roots and wrecks their phone, why should Sprint or Verizon or whoever have to take the phone call from that user who's whining about their stuff not working? Shouldn't they be able to say, "Perhaps you shouldn't have been messing with it"?

There was a good editorial here a few months back about why rooting isn't for everyone. People act as if their phones are broken and useless unless they can superuser them. You hear a lot of nerd whining about how they want to "own the phone" and blah-blah-woof-woof, but I suspect many who want to root are just doing it to feel nerd smug.

 

[TomD]

When someone comes in and tries to smear the entire Android OS because it's funky to root some phones, I want to ask them to get back under their bridge. Android as closed as iOS? Puh-leeze!

...

Jeeze what a fan boy. Smearing Android - Hardly, just pointing out that it isn't any more open than iOS. You gotta a break into both of them to do anything.

I had a difficult choice between iOS and Android. Each has advantages and disadvantages. In the end I went with Android, partly because of its open reputation. That did not turn out to be true.

 

[sorli]

Yes I also wish Android was a little easier. Also coming from webOS, Android isn't as easy to root and unlock period. I love how so many people come to the defense of rooting Android, but why is it that every update brings another question "will my Root be deleted with the latest update?" Compared to other platforms lie Windows Mobile and IOS...Android rooting is a dream, but I don't have experience with these platforms and either way suspect Android is much easier.

Actually, most of these problems I suspect are carrier specific and keeping rooting locked away in their pockets. I can see why carriers want this control...allows them to keep stocking builds with crap apps that most people don't find useful. WebOS had these too, but then easy access to Rooting eliminated most of these problems. For me, this is not a turf war and most of us simply want things easier. Probably why I miss webOS so much. Sorli...

 

[Stearmandriver]

But how much easier can it get than one-click? Geez! Lol... Besides, almost all the tweaks mentioned in this thread don't even require root. Are you sure you even need it? How many different launchers and dialers can you grab from the Apple market lol?

 

[TomD]

But how much easier can it get than one-click? Geez! Lol... Besides, almost all the tweaks mentioned in this thread don't even require root. Are you sure you even need it? How many different launchers and dialers can you grab from the Apple market lol?

All I want is a full backup. Gotta have root for that.

 

[TomD]

Now that webOS is fully open source, seems like a good hacking project would be to port it to an E4GT.

Any takers?

 

[DirkBelig]

Jeeze what a fan boy. Smearing Android - Hardly, just pointing out that it isn't any more open than iOS. You gotta a break into both of them to do anything.

I had a difficult choice between iOS and Android. Each has advantages and disadvantages. In the end I went with Android, partly because of its open reputation. That did not turn out to be true.

Hardly. I was a launch day buyer of the OG Palm Pre and a major proponent of WebOS, but the sadly underpowered hardware and total confusion and ultimate pooch-screwing by Palm and HP of the marketing and support strangled it in its crib. The launch day purchase of my OG EVO was like getting out of a year-long abusive relationship. When I realized I could click a link in an email and be assured that the browser would open and not give me a "Too Many Cards Open" error (when only email was open!), was the greatest day ever.

Rooting the EVO was a one-click deal. Same with the GS2E4GT with ODIN One-Click. The tools to mod, alter, replace, tweak, tune Android are out there and relatively easy to use. What's the alternative for iPhone or the Pre? What could be done to the Pre other than patch in stuff that was left out by Palm? I can't remember what all I needed to patch in for my phone, but the only things I've needed to root for on my Androids was to run Titanium Backup and BetterBatteryStats.

You can do plenty with Android without "having to break into it." Android is the most open OS available. No one lied to you. You're just looking to troll.

 

[Biggnaa20]

I think Android WAS intended to be open for the average Joe... but the carriers don't like that and try to restrict it. That's why the pure android phones are so easy to root, but the phones with carrier and/or manufacturer skinning are a bit more challenging.

That being said, this phone is extremely easy to root and customize these days. sfhub's one-click Odin packages are about as easy as it gets! And it's certainly not an "overhaul everything" proposition. My phone is rooted, running the stock EL29 rom. The one and only tweak I've made is the hotspot hack. That's the single reason I rooted. I'm not running a custom ROM or kernel. I've done that with other android phones... this one just doesn't require it. I'm perfectly happy with its stock performance. So we can very definitely - and easily - pick and choose which tweaks we want.

Almost all the patches you listed are things that are available in the android market, WITHOUT rooting. Flashlight? Dozens. Launchers and browsers? Many to choose from, very customizable. Customizable dialers? Plenty. None of it requires root.

Overclocking is a bit different, but the way I understand it, it deals with the kernel, not so much the ROM. So, I still think the WebOS devs never had the same level of access to the system - which is why they couldn't fix the real problems with it. My pre was patched and themed all to heck.. but it still couldn't perform some basic smartphone functions like opening a pdf. No real surprise Palm failed, with that kind of performance.

Oh, yes. I totally agree that Android was meant to be open to the end user, but I don't think it was as easy to get in and change as webOS was. I agree that this was probably due to interference from the carriers. I also agree that Android allows for more customization and changes...even with non root market applications. It's also more powerful than webOS. I'm not hating on Android, or trying to knock it. Palm failed because of their inability to execute on their ideas unfortunately. HP failed because they lacked long term commitment.

And even through all of that, I still miss how simple it was to change things with Preware and webOS quick install.