No 800MHz CDMA in the ESMR band

[JayWill]

Just to clear up any confusion that Moto may have caused by listing CDMA800 on their spec sheet, the Photon will support CDMA850 just like every other Sprint phone for the last several years. Phonescoop explains it nicely if one reads both of the following two links:

In other words you're saying what Moto is listing on their fact sheet as CDMA800 is actually CDMA850? I guess this would line up with what is listed on the FCC details for the device, assuming the 824.7 - 848.31 range is technically the 850 band. Looking at the HTC EVO 3D FCC details, you see another line item (that isn't listed on the Photon) with a 817.9 - 823.1 range, which I would assume is the techincal range for the 800 band.

You'd think after this whole thing ... ‪Motorola PHOTON that Motorola would have included this capability for their flagship Sprint device.

 

[rawvega]

Exactly right, sir. The 824-848 is no big deal, it's been in Sprint dual band phones for years for roaming purposes. The big deal is the 817-823 as that will be native Sprint spectrum that phones like the Evo 3D will eventually be able to use for CDMA service once it's repurposed from iDEN beginning some time later on this year. The obvious benefit will be father range and greater indoor penetration. It probably won't matter to the mainstream user. However, to a phone geek like myself, it's a big tactical error by Motorola not to include the 800 band in their flagship phone, especially since, as I pointed out earlier, their biggest competitors are starting to include it.

 

[4aks]

Exactly right, sir. The 824-848 is no big deal, it's been in Sprint dual band phones for years for roaming purposes. The big deal is the 817-823 as that will be native Sprint spectrum that phones like the Evo 3D will eventually be able to use for CDMA service once it's repurposed from iDEN beginning some time later on this year. The obvious benefit will be father range and greater indoor penetration. It probably won't matter to the mainstream user. However, to a phone geek like myself, it's a big tactical error by Motorola not to include the 800 band in their flagship phone, especially since, as I pointed out earlier, their biggest competitors are starting to include it.

they are just taking a page out of the Apple playbook, by leaving out a cutting-edge feature, relying on the rest of the product being good enough to make the sale. So a year from now they'll have an easy upgrade sale with a new 2.0 version the desired feature.

 

[Citizen Coyote]

In other words you're saying what Moto is listing on their fact sheet as CDMA800 is actually CDMA850? I guess this would line up with what is listed on the FCC details for the device, assuming the 824.7 - 848.31 range is technically the 850 band. Looking at the HTC EVO 3D FCC details, you see another line item (that isn't listed on the Photon) with a 817.9 - 823.1 range, which I would assume is the techincal range for the 800 band.

You'd think after this whole thing ... ‪Motorola PHOTON that Motorola would have included this capability for their flagship Sprint device.

Ok, this argument is looking more convincing the more I look into it. Disappointing, certainly, but I wonder if there's a technical reason Motorola couldn't fit ESMR into the phone?

Edit: Digging around on Phone Scoop, I found this interesting moderator's comment about ESMR. In a nutshell, the mod doesn't feel ESMR accessibility adds a whole lot on the consumer end. Rather, he notes that it seems more directed at allowing Sprint to increase capacity in the 3G band, thus either avoiding AT&T's woes and/or parceling out more bandwidth to their subcontractors.

Whether or not he's correct is a matter for debate.

 

[intheb0x]

more info on the merging of bands and what sprint hopes to accomplish.

Sprint Newsroom | Sprint Network Vision Information Center

does anyone know for sure since the dummy units and set info for the phones should be arriving in stores soon for the launch date?

 

[rawvega]

Ok, this argument is looking more convincing the more I look into it. Disappointing, certainly, but I wonder if there's a technical reason Motorola couldn't fit ESMR into the phone?

Edit: Digging around on Phone Scoop, I found this interesting moderator's comment about ESMR. In a nutshell, the mod doesn't feel ESMR accessibility adds a whole lot on the consumer end. Rather, he notes that it seems more directed at allowing Sprint to increase capacity in the 3G band, thus either avoiding AT&T's woes and/or parceling out more bandwidth to their subcontractors.

Whether or not he's correct is a matter for debate.

Indeed. I'm going to have to disagree with his opinion. Even though he does acknowledge that the CDMA800 on the ESMR band should provide better indoor reception. That, along with the farther range of 800MHz vs. the current 1900MHz, will add a great deal for subscribers imo. To quote Cingular's former ads, "More bars in more places". How can that NOT add a lot on the consumer end?

 

[Jeremytallman]

Indeed. I'm going to have to disagree with his opinion. Even though he does acknowledge that the CDMA800 on the ESMR band should provide better indoor reception. That, along with the farther range of 800MHz vs. the current 1900MHz, will add a great deal for subscribers imo. To quote Cingular's former ads, "More bars in more places". How can that NOT add a lot on the consumer end?

@rawvega

This was posted in another thread regarding GSM capabilities:

From phonearena

Network technology:
CDMA:
800, 1900
GSM:
850, 900, 1800, 1900
UMTS:
850, 1900, 2100

Motorola PHOTON 4G specs - Phone Arena

UMTS

What do you make of it?

 

[rawvega]

A typo most likely. It should read CDMA: 850, 1900.

The FCC docs tell the tale: https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas...me=N&application_id=608952&fcc_id='IHDP56MD1'

There is no CDMA800 ESMR support on the Photon unfortunately. :'(

 

[Jeremytallman]

A typo most likely. It should read CDMA: 850, 1900.

The FCC docs tell the tale: https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas...me=N&application_id=608952&fcc_id='IHDP56MD1'

There is no CDMA800 ESMR support on the Photon unfortunately. :'(

The third link in your link has this to say about halfway down the page:

"Description:
This equipment is a WCDMA/GSM transceiver operating in the 850/1900 MHz bands. It also operates in the CDMA 800/1900 bands..."

I wonder if this could be correct, assuming this is the data for the Photon? :-\ Thanks.

 

[rawvega]

If you read the links that I put at the bottom of post #20 and JayWill72's interpretation in post #21, it really explains things quite succinctly.

 

[Citizen Coyote]

The third link in your link has this to say about halfway down the page:

"Description:
This equipment is a WCDMA/GSM transceiver operating in the 850/1900 MHz bands. It also operates in the CDMA 800/1900 bands..."

I wonder if this could be correct, assuming this is the data for the Photon? :-\ Thanks.

Check out the FCC link provided earlier, specifically the document "Exhibit 6 Test Report." On pages 12 and 13, it clearly labels the CDMA bands under test as 850 and 1900. Also, on the first page of the same report, it lists the lower CDMA band frequency as 824.70 - 848.31MHz. This is within the operational frequency of the CDMA 850 band, as noted in a previous link.

I originally held out hope these documents were not for the Photon, but given the phone's description I don't know what else it could be. Everything points to the phone not having CDMA 800 ESMR support. However, personally I wouldn't base your entire decision on whether or not to buy the phone solely on this minor negative. Thanks to the hands-on stuff we've seen, the Photon is still quite capable (and if you want a Sprint world phone, this is the one to get).

 

[jreuschl]

Sprint announced they will be making a big announcement as to the future of 4G this fall. I would assume we'd get an idea on when the network upgrades will be taking place at that time, too.

 

[ljbad4life]

IMHO ESMR band will not be evacuated until about the time wimax will be, so any sprint 4g phone will be useless at that point (no 4g).

Sprint can't use that band until iden is removed from it and there are several other hang ups to discontinuing iden service (roaming agreements with partners)

 

[rawvega]

IMHO ESMR band will not be evacuated until about the time wimax will be, so any sprint 4g phone will be useless at that point (no 4g).

However, the discussion at this point isn't about putting 4G onto the ESMR band, but rather CDMA.

Sprint can't use that band until iden is removed from it and there are several other hang ups to discontinuing iden service (roaming agreements with partners)

No, I don't believe that is true. Dan Hesse: "We intend to repurpose some of our 800 megahertz spectrum for CDMA service which will enhance coverage and in particular, the in-building experience for our customers. We also expect to launch the next generation of push-to-talk services in 2011 on the CDMA network, offering customers subsecond call set of time along with robust data capabilities. It is expected that iDEN cell sites will be phased out beginning in 2013.

Currently, we are conducting laboratory testing and expect to begin field integration testing around the middle of the second quarter. We expect the first upgraded cell sites to go live with the new equipment in eight of the largest metro areas beginning in the August time frame. This will allow us to deliver performance improvement to as many of our customers as quickly as possible, and this will also set the stage for cost reductions starting in 2012.

Sprint Nextel's CEO Discusses Q4 2010 Results - Earnings Call Transcript - Seeking Alpha

It seems obvious that in areas where they have finished re-banding and thus have contiguous spectrum, Hesse intends to operate CDMA and iDEN concurrently on the 800MHz ESMR band until iDEN is phased out completely.

On another note, even freakin' Huawei is apparently releasing a handset with CDMA800 ESMR capability: https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas...Frame=N&application_id=180056&fcc_id='QISM650'
I have no idea if it's Android or not. Regardless, if HTC, Samsung, LG and now Huawei can develop Sprint handsets with the CDMA800 ESMR functionality, there's no reason why Motorola couldn't have in their flagship Sprint phone.

 

[newboyx]

We expect the first upgraded cell sites to go live with the new equipment in eight of the largest metro areas beginning in the August time frame.

Do we know what these 8 metro areas are?