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  1. #76  
    yfan's Avatar

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    Default Re: T-Mobile: Bye bye to Corporate discounts (update : new accounts only)

    Quote Originally Posted by diesteldorf View Post
    As Sierrajin pointed out, these discounts can serve as a way for the carriers to get new customers that they otherwise may not have.
    And this is the part I don't think is true. At least, not today. As I mentioned before, when these discounts began, cell phones weren't as ubiquitous as they are today. Those discounts served to entice people into the market who wouldn't have been in the market at all were it not for those discounts. But now, everyone will have a cell phone and a plan, discounted or not. And while having an exclusive discount agreement can justify bulk discounts, having them with all 4 does not. Yes, not all companies have agreements with all the carriers, but I think companies covering most of the discount eligible employees have agreements with either all 4 or the ones that have coverage in their area.

    Quote Originally Posted by diesteldorf View Post
    I also don't know your personal circumstances, but not everyone that works for corporations is of higher means than those that work for charities or non-profits, and vice versa.
    Of course not. And large nonprofits tend to offer these discounts too. This isn't about non-profits vs. for-profits, but more about those who work for large corporations (for profit or not for profits) vs. those who work for smaller employers or are self-employed. Again, I am aware that not everyone working for large corporations makes more money than everyone working for small employers, but that's why I said they are "more often than not" people of better means.

    Quote Originally Posted by diesteldorf View Post
    Furthermore, these discounts allow the carriers, in certain cases, easy access to a pool of potential customers and free advertising.
    Good point, and because bigger carriers can afford to do this more often and more elaborately, it gives them a competitive edge that smaller carriers can't compete with anyway, and offering a discount doesn't make up for that. But as has been discussed in this thread, even Verizon and AT&T have been finding ways to limit those discounts - which means even they see the potential upside shrinking.

    Quote Originally Posted by diesteldorf View Post
    If I recall correctly, your $30 plan is technically open to everyone. However, it isn't a plan that is highly advertised, compared to other plans, and I thought one had to buy a sim through Walmart or Tmobile.com to get it. You have knowledge and information that even a new TMO customer may not have, causing them to pay more when the $30 plan may meet their needs. Does that mean that they are subsidizing you because they aren't as informed ? As with many things, knowledge is power.
    Yes, knowledge is power. But knowledge someone "may not have" is not the same as knowledge someone cannot have. Everyone can find out about the plan I have, and choose it if they wish. On the other hand, those not working for the select employers offering the discount cannot have the discount. As for subsidizing, in fact, I can better argue the reverse. Because my plan has no advertising to speak of, I am subsidizing the advertising costs for the other plans! But this is about disparities in pricing available on each plan, not advertising costs.

    Quote Originally Posted by diesteldorf View Post
    Until last month, I was on a 12 month, $10 off per month, discount on my home internet. It expired and I had to decide if i wanted to try to get it extended or just take my medicine. I had the luxury of canceling completely and using my Verizon Wireless data plan to meet my needs. However, it is nice to have multiple ways to connect to the internet.

    I called, told them I was concerned about the price and thinking about canceling. They agreed to extend my $10 discount and I accepted. In some ways, i wish I hadn't. I am not really a loyal or "good" customer, but one that will do whatever it takes to try to save money. There are probably those that let their discounts expire and are now subsidizing my lower rate. I am a pain in the neck and if they let me cancel, they wouldn't have to deal with me anymore. I would save more money because I wouldn't have to pay them anymore, and other, more loyal, customers would not have to subsidize me anymore. Sometimes a customer just can't win.
    Actually, this isn't a subsidy; this is retention cost. I'm quite certain your ISP offers to extend rates on a regular basis to customers who look to leave - and that is because generally speaking, it costs more to acquire a new customer than to retain an existing one. This principle is why Verizon grandfathered your unlimited data plan. That doesn't mean newer customers are subsidizing you - it simply means that Verizon decided that it'd be less expensive for them to retain the unlimited data customers than to acquire an equivalent number of new accounts.

    Again, as long as the corporate discounts paid for themselves - i.e. in terms of how much it saved the carrier in advertising and how much less it cost to acquire new customers - I would have no problem with them. But with cell phones now being a commodity, companies are now deciding that they in fact don't pay for themselves. Hence the move to limit/eliminate those discounts.
    diesteldorf likes this.
  2. #77  

    Default Re: T-Mobile: Bye bye to Corporate discounts (update : new accounts only)

    Quote Originally Posted by yfan View Post
    And this is the part I don't think is true. At least, not today. As I mentioned before, when these discounts began, cell phones weren't as ubiquitous as they are today. Those discounts served to entice people into the market who wouldn't have been in the market at all were it not for those discounts. But now, everyone will have a cell phone and a plan, discounted or not. And while having an exclusive discount agreement can justify bulk discounts, having them with all 4 does not. Yes, not all companies have agreements with all the carriers, but I think companies covering most of the discount eligible employees have agreements with either all 4 or the ones that have coverage in their area.
    Yes, everyone already has a PLAN and PHONE but now a day's people are looking for the best deals, better coverage... If i am starting a new company and my contract is up and im seriously deciding to switch... The one thing that is gonna SWAY my factors is walking into my business and seeing DISCOUNTS... It most def changes Everything.... Now, its not about getting people to get a cell phone, its about getting people onto YOUR network...
  3. #78  
    yfan's Avatar

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    Default Re: T-Mobile: Bye bye to Corporate discounts (update : new accounts only)

    Quote Originally Posted by sierrajinx9 View Post
    Yes, everyone already has a PLAN and PHONE but now a day's people are looking for the best deals, better coverage... If i am starting a new company and my contract is up and im seriously deciding to switch... The one thing that is gonna SWAY my factors is walking into my business and seeing DISCOUNTS... It most def changes Everything.... Now, its not about getting people to get a cell phone, its about getting people onto YOUR network...
    Which is a moot point if your employer has discount agreements with all major carriers with coverage in your area. In that case, your decision is the same as if your employer did not have a discount agreement with any carrier.

    At the end of the day though, it isn't my consumer fairness argument that is the deciding factor. It's just that for once, fairness for consumers happens to coincide with the interests of carriers. For quite a while, carriers have been limiting what you can get your discount on (e.g. primary line only, data add-on only, etc. etc.). That is because the discounts as a way to recruit and retain customers has become less and less attractive for the carriers. It's starting to cost them more than it makes them. T-Mobile's move may be the most pronounced, but it's not like this hasn't been happening for a while.
  4. #79  

    Default Re: T-Mobile: Bye bye to Corporate discounts (update : new accounts only)

    So because I was qualified enough to get a job in a bigger company, and get a discount... That is unfair to you? Its not like you are paying EXTRA because your company doesn't get a discount... This whole "Fairness" issue has no grounds! It would be like me telling you that you cannot use your Walmart employee discount, because I don't get a walmart discount.. or telling you that you cannot eat that donut because i am on a diet and that's not fair... This isn't different, its all the same.. Better yet, my company also gives me a 15% Discount through APPLE... that unfair also? let me know
  5. #80  
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    Default Re: T-Mobile: Bye bye to Corporate discounts (update : new accounts only)

    Quote Originally Posted by sierrajinx9 View Post
    So because I was qualified enough to get a job in a bigger company, and get a discount... That is unfair to you?
    Oh here we go with the entitlement mentality again. A job with a bigger company doesn't mean better qualifications, and furthermore, your job qualifications have nothing to do with how much you should be charged for cell phone service compared to others. If we're going to design a system based on qualifications, should we have one where Ph.D.s are given a discount that isn't available to people with a college degree or a high school diploma? If you are qualified enough to get a job with a bigger company, you also make enough to pay what everyone else pays.

    Quote Originally Posted by sierrajinx9 View Post
    Its not like you are paying EXTRA because your company doesn't get a discount..
    Anyone not getting your discount is paying extra compared to you because their company doesn't get a discount.

    Quote Originally Posted by sierrajinx9 View Post
    It would be like me telling you that you cannot use your Walmart employee discount, because I don't get a walmart discount..
    Actually, no. Because in that case, Walmart, as my employer, would be eating the cost of the discount. Your employer does not pay your carrier for the amount you get discounted. If they did, I wouldn't have an issue with it. I don't know what the donut has to do with this, since there's no discount on the donut, you are just choosing not to eat it.

    Quote Originally Posted by sierrajinx9 View Post
    Better yet, my company also gives me a 15% Discount through APPLE... that unfair also?
    Finally, we are on an apples-to-apples comparison, and yes, that's unfair also - unless your company happens to bulk buy Apple's products and resell it to you. And it's also proof that consumer fairness isn't the deciding factor in the market.

    But like I said, the reason these discounts are going away isn't because carriers are super concerned about consumer fairness. They are going away because the carriers are no longer benefiting from them. It's just that for once the two happen to align.
  6. #81  

    Default Re: T-Mobile: Bye bye to Corporate discounts (update : new accounts only)

    Quote Originally Posted by yfan View Post
    Because my plan has no advertising to speak of, I am subsidizing the advertising costs for the other plans! But this is about disparities in pricing available on each plan, not advertising costs.
    See you always justify your 30 dollars as your subsidizing advertising, discounts for others, etc.... Yes your money goes to run the business. Regardless of discount or no discount.. You're going to have to pay for your usage and it's going to be used in some way to better benefit the business.

    Just like I said by your logic I am subsidizing you am I not? You pay 30 for access to T-Mobile whereas I pay 70 dollars.. So am I not helping T-Mobile's costs so you can have a cheap prepaid plan? In the end we all pay for each other.. T-Mobile profits.. Stays in business to keep on going.

    The street goes both ways.. You can't just twist it to your way to make you seem like a victim and ignore other facts that are pointed out using your same logic. You can't say you're costs are paying for all and others aren't.

    Sent from my T-Mobile Note 3 using AC Forums.
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  7. #82  

    Default Re: T-Mobile: Bye bye to Corporate discounts (update : new accounts only)

    My main point is we all pay for each other... Businesses pass along prices. Some get deals some don't.. It sucks but that's how it's always been.

    When employees get employee discounts do you think the business just takes that cost? Nope. Passed to me and you.

    Sent from my T-Mobile Note 3 using AC Forums.
  8. #83  
    yfan's Avatar

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    Default Re: T-Mobile: Bye bye to Corporate discounts (update : new accounts only)

    Quote Originally Posted by Almeuit View Post
    See you always justify your 30 dollars as your subsidizing advertising, discounts for others, etc.... Yes your money goes to run the business. Regardless of discount or no discount.. You're going to have to pay for your usage and it's going to be used in some way to better benefit the business.
    This isn't about benefiting the business - but if we're going to have to benefit the business, customers should be doing it equitably - not equally, but equitably. That is, everyone pays the same price for the same plan. And as I have been saying for a while (somehow people on the other side of the argument just tend to conveniently ignore it), the businesses - i.e. the carriers - have been deciding for a while now that employee discounts don't benefit them much anymore.

    Quote Originally Posted by Almeuit View Post
    Just like I said by your logic I am subsidizing you am I not? You pay 30 for access to T-Mobile whereas I pay 70 dollars.. So am I not helping T-Mobile's costs so you can have a cheap prepaid plan?
    Absolutely not. I don't get what you get for your postpaid $70 plan. I'm not sure if you have the grandfathered unlimited data plan or the new 5GB (with 5GB of tethering) plan, but either way, here is a list of things you get that I don't:
    • Minutes: I'm limited to 100 minutes; you have unlimited. Unlimited minutes just by themselves cost an industry standard of $40-$45.
    • Domestic data roaming.
    • International roaming for free for text and data, and calling from international areas for any price (you get it at $0.20 a minute).
    • Conditional call forwarding, or any forwarding for voice mail at all.
    • Tethering.

    You are not paying a penny to subsidize me. I am paying less because I'm getting less. People who are on corporate discount plans are paying less, but are not getting less.

    Quote Originally Posted by Almeuit View Post
    When employees get employee discounts do you think the business just takes that cost? Nope. Passed to me and you.
    No, employee discounts for employers of a given business are different. Because yes, businesses ultimately pass down all labor cost to the consumer, but that includes wages, benefits, etc. In case of an employee discount within a company, the employer is taking the hit and then passing it on to their own customers. In case of corporate discounts on cell phone plans, your employer is giving you a benefit and passing the cost onto me - who's not their employee or their customer. Because they are giving you a benefit without spending the money themselves - if they were, that would be completely fine.
  9. #84  

    Default Re: T-Mobile: Bye bye to Corporate discounts (update : new accounts only)

    Quote Originally Posted by yfan View Post
    You are not paying a penny to subsidize me. I am paying less because I'm getting less.

    Exactly! Therefore you aren't subsidizing me or anyone's anything either. . Glad you can see that now.

    Sent from my T-Mobile Note 3 using AC Forums.
  10. #85  
    yfan's Avatar

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    Default Re: T-Mobile: Bye bye to Corporate discounts (update : new accounts only)

    Quote Originally Posted by Almeuit View Post
    Exactly! Therefore you aren't subsidizing me or anyone's anything either.
    Nope. Just because you say "therefore" doesn't mean your statement logically follows from mine. Again, simply because I'm on a less expensive plan doesn't mean I'm not subsidizing anyone. Anyone paying full price for their specific plan is subsidizing those who aren't paying full price for their specific plan. It's that simple. Whether someone is subsidizing someone else is not determined by comparing total bills. I'm paying for what I'm getting, and if what you're paying for what you're getting less a discount, then I'm subsidizing you unless the discount is universally available.

    What you're basically saying is if you used a corporate discount to buy 3 phones and took a 20% discount on each that isn't available on to everyone else, and I only bought one at full price, then I'm not subsidizing you because your total spend would still be higher than mine. That isn't the case. I'm still subsidizing you.
  11. #86  

    Default Re: T-Mobile: Bye bye to Corporate discounts (update : new accounts only)

    Again if your 30 subsidizes people my 70 does as well. You can't say it doesn't.. Wouldn't make sense.

    FYI all my phones are bought full price. Have been since the S3 .

    Sent from my T-Mobile Note 3 using AC Forums.
  12. #87  
    yfan's Avatar

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    Default Re: T-Mobile: Bye bye to Corporate discounts (update : new accounts only)

    Quote Originally Posted by Almeuit View Post
    Again if your 30 subsidizes people my 70 does as well. You can't say it doesn't.. Wouldn't make sense.
    People, yes. Me, no. If you pay full cost of your $70 plan, then yes of course you're subsidizing those who have a corporate discount.

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
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