Samsung stifling Android 2.2 for Fascinate?

**928SC** · 01-13-2011, 08:10 AM

Happy with MR2? Hope so, as that may be the last release we see. If so, good luck selling 60 mill units Samsung, I bet you won't even sell another 10 mill with this kind of bonehead move.

**DroidDev** · 01-13-2011, 08:58 AM

You will get 2.2. You will not get 2.3.

**joebob2000** · 01-13-2011, 09:05 AM

Originally Posted by DroidDev

You will get 2.2. You will not get 2.3.

Can we quote you on that?

**DroidDev** · 01-13-2011, 09:09 AM

Sure just dont use my name or my likeness or I will rain down upon you the fury of 1000 suns.

Verizon told me the Fascinate will and my friendly friends over at Samsung said it will. They both also said that it will NOT get 2.3. All of the Galaxy S phones are samsung. They wont update one and not the other. It sucks waiting, I know...I came from the Eris. You could always sell it and come over to the Dark Side. I hear the Droid X community would love some more users.

**Phil Nickinson** · 01-13-2011, 09:10 AM

Here's the real story behind that, and the reason we're not publishing it (Hint: It's bull****)

http://forum.androidcentral.com/t-mo...oyo-thing.html

**DroidDev** · 01-13-2011, 09:19 AM

Nice one Phil. My question is though why would they have spent all the manpower, time, and money to make a stable 2.2 and not deliver it. I work in the development and testing field and from my experience that would be a huge waste of resources that can potentially cause a loss in revenue.

On the other hand I am inclined to call BS as well because the fact that Samsung would just NOT release it is beyond stupid. It would also be that they are waiting for the Vibrant 4G launch to be over before releasing 2.2 to these phones.

The comment in that tip that maybe we should file a class action is funny. Im still going to hold to my comment that 2.2 is coming. Never 2.3 thought.

**Kevin Gossett** · 01-13-2011, 10:37 AM

2.2 has to be released. There is no way it won't. Samsung and Verizon sold OEM accessories that don't function fully without 2.2 support. End of story.

Oh, and 2.3 will get released too, just not officially

**Mad Jeep** · 01-13-2011, 10:43 AM

I am all for the class action. Just tell me where to put my name!

**Kalnel** · 01-13-2011, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by MAD Man

I am all for the class action. Just tell me where to put my name!

I'd LOVE a class action suit! In the 20 years I've been a Verizon customer, I've upgraded phones early and for free three or four times thanks to class action suits.

It's the non-upgrade upgrade!

**JJRocker** · 01-13-2011, 11:26 AM

I'd like to see the story published whether it's true or not. Perhaps the bad press could be the strongarm tactic needed to get Sammy to release the Froyo update

. Let's face it, if enough people believe the rumor, they might feel that they need to get it out to head off the potential PR disaster. But then again, they might also be forced to push out an update that isn't ready for prime time yet.

**Kevin Gossett** · 01-13-2011, 11:49 AM

And considering that's all based off T-Mobile and the Vibrant, it really has nothing to do with Verizon and the Fascinate. So what would compel them to release 2.2 across all carriers?

**pheatton** · 01-13-2011, 11:53 AM

Well this would be the reason Im back to using my Incredible. If I dont see the 2.2 update by the time the Thunderbolt is released Im selling the Fascinate.

If we do see 2.2 I hope they get rid of the random hangs etc. Even after a brand new flash of DI09 it still randomly hangs and gets stuck. My Incredible never does...

**DroidDev** · 01-13-2011, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by Kevin Gossett

And considering that's all based off T-Mobile and the Vibrant, it really has nothing to do with Verizon and the Fascinate. So what would compel them to release 2.2 across all carriers?

Dont look at it as carriers. Look at it as Samsungs product. Fascinate is part of the Galaxy S line. All relatively similar. It would not benifit Samsung to only have some of their Galaxy S phones on 2.2 and others not.

**DroidXcon** · 01-13-2011, 12:04 PM

Is everyone forgetting that almost all the rest of the world with Galaxy S phones has 2.2. why are we discussing if it is getting it all.... just stick to arguing about when.

if your phone is buggy and you are talking about selling it... just root it and throw a custom rom on it my phone zips through everything with never a stutter. i love my fascinate.

if not having 2.2 is bugging you just go head and sell it and get something else. Don't let an update ruin your day or lives.

**GlueFactoryBJJ** · 01-13-2011, 02:23 PM

DroidXcon,

Not everyone has an unlimited budget and can afford to take a hit on the phone. I think it is a reasonable expectation that a currently selling phone will receive an update to a current version of the OS (i.e. Android 2.2.1). I also think it is reasonable to expect that it would also receive an update to the next version of the OS (i.e. Gingerbread), especially since it will probably released before the next version of the phone is available.

Personally, I believe that it would be a good practice for both the carriers and manufacturers to offer a guaranteed 2 OS version upgrade. Frankly, I think that it is not unreasonable to guarantee upgrades to all available OS upgrades during the contract period (minus one at the end of the contract). If the carriers are going to lock us into 2 years, then they should promise to keep the phone up to date for 2 years (given sufficient hardware).

The only "problem" with this that I can see is that the Fascinate only comes with 384MB RAM rather than the 512MB that appears to be standard on phones now... not to mention the few that already have 1GB RAM. So I can CONCEIVABLY see that Honeycomb might not run on the Fascinate, though Google doesn't seem to think there will be any hardware limitations on Honeycomb (see the Engadget interview with Honeycomb's designer at Google).

I mean, really?!? It costs THAT much to put another 128MB of RAM into the phone? The price difference between 384MB and even 1GB can't be more than $5-10 at their volume (MAX), so we'd be looking at $15-30 at full retail. (Remember, we're talking DDR or DDR2 memory here.)

Anyway, I hope Samsung pulls their head out ASAP or my daughter's two Fascinates will be the LAST Samsung's I'll buy so long as they continue to be so dense.

Scott

**Kevin Gossett** · 01-13-2011, 02:28 PM

There is 512 MB of RAM, but you are only allowed to use 384... The rest is used for the system.

And the reason the carrier "locks" you into a two-year contract is so you don't have to pay full retail for the phone. You don't have to "lock" into the contract at all.

And again, nobody is saying we aren't going to get the update. We will get 2.2, it is just a matter of when.

**GlueFactoryBJJ** · 01-13-2011, 02:56 PM

Apparently, we are having a failure to communicate.

I based my 384MB value on Verizon's posted number. I'd like to know where you got yours. Also, your statement, "... you are only allowed to use 384... The rest is used for the system." doesn't make any sense without at least some clarification.

The "system" is the OS. Either it uses all the RAM or it is kernel-limited to use only 384MB. If I remember correctly, Eclair's kernel was limited to using only 384MB, but that has nothing to do with how much RAM the phone's specs say are in the phone.

As for the update, regardless of how much you are willing to pay for the phone, the fact is that the carrier WILL lock you into a 2 year contract if you opt for saving some money up front as the carrier will NOT discount the monthly price if you pay full retail.

With the Android OS is changing so quickly and so many new features being added (software, not features that affect hardware requirements), it is realistic to expect updates in a timely manner. Especially since the carrier will void your warranty if you have the temerity to be caught customizing it by rooting/custom ROMs.

In addition, it is part of the Google/Android selling points that the phones will be updated with rapid OS updates as new features are added. It is a VERY short term view (which Motorola apparently found out before it hit it big with Android) to make your products obsolete every 6 months AND basically discontinue support for them.

Finally, these phones are being released almost as soon as the hardware is baked, leaving many software bugs to be worked out by we the users. I don't mind being a beta tester, but these are still fairly simple devices, with limited hardware to support, so the basic functions should be worked out before the phone is released. Once the hardware is ready AND the initial software is fully baked, follow up updates to an OS like Android should be basically limited to getting the kernel to work properly and let the OS run on top of it as the OS was designed. Most of the problems I've seen are kernel level stuff (GPS locking, etc.) This isn't rocket science.

While Google would have a tough time with keeping kernels up to date, it shouldn't be NEARLY as big an issue with the hardware manufacturers as part of their design process should be presenting hardware that follows the same basic design principles which would simplify changes to technological advances (CPU, graphics, etc.) as opposed to standard hardware (buttons, battery, etc.). And since many CPU/graphics use the same commands, the changes are not on the level of a complete rewrite of the driver/kernel interface.

Yes, I have been involved with hardware design and software matching in a past life, so I do have some experience with this. However, being a hardware company (Samsung, Motorola, HTC, etc.) doesn't mean you have the experience, or even understand what is needed, to avoid design issues.

Scott

**pheatton** · 01-13-2011, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by DroidXcon

Is everyone forgetting that almost all the rest of the world with Galaxy S phones has 2.2. why are we discussing if it is getting it all.... just stick to arguing about when.

if your phone is buggy and you are talking about selling it... just root it and throw a custom rom on it my phone zips through everything with never a stutter. i love my fascinate.

if not having 2.2 is bugging you just go head and sell it and get something else. Don't let an update ruin your day or lives.

I dont doubt that it will get 2.2 but it should already have IMO. I do have a custom ROM on it that I have been playing with for awhile now.

**Jerry Hildenbrand** · 01-13-2011, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by GlueFactoryBJJ

Apparently, we are having a failure to communicate.

I based my 384MB value on Verizon's posted number. I'd like to know where you got yours. Also, your statement, "... you are only allowed to use 384... The rest is used for the system." doesn't make any sense without at least some clarification.

The "system" is the OS. Either it uses all the RAM or it is kernel-limited to use only 384MB. If I remember correctly, Eclair's kernel was limited to using only 384MB, but that has nothing to do with how much RAM the phone's specs say are in the phone.

As for the update, regardless of how much you are willing to pay for the phone, the fact is that the carrier WILL lock you into a 2 year contract if you opt for saving some money up front as the carrier will NOT discount the monthly price if you pay full retail......<snip>

Scott

There is 512 MB RAM on the Fascinate. Some of that needs reserved for the RIL, the camera, and the GPU. Stock settings have this at ~140 reserved. You can adjust this in /blob/master/config in the source tree.

Some carriers (T-Mobile in the US) offer discounts on rates if you bring your phone along.

**Kevin Gossett** · 01-13-2011, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by GlueFactoryBJJ

Apparently, we are having a failure to communicate.

I based my 384MB value on Verizon's posted number. I'd like to know where you got yours. Also, your statement, "... you are only allowed to use 384... The rest is used for the system." doesn't make any sense without at least some clarification.

The "system" is the OS. Either it uses all the RAM or it is kernel-limited to use only 384MB. If I remember correctly, Eclair's kernel was limited to using only 384MB, but that has nothing to do with how much RAM the phone's specs say are in the phone.

Let me clarify... The phone has 512 MB or RAM, to which 128 MB have been partitioned for OS, CPU, GPU, etc. That leaves 384 MB to be used for apps, task, etc.

**geocomp** · 01-13-2011, 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by pheatton

Well this would be the reason Im back to using my Incredible. If I dont see the 2.2 update by the time the Thunderbolt is released Im selling the Fascinate.

If we do see 2.2 I hope they get rid of the random hangs etc. Even after a brand new flash of DI09 it still randomly hangs and gets stuck. My Incredible never does...

Sell me your Fascinate, I need one for my wife.

**balthuszar** · 01-13-2011, 05:55 PM

so way back when my husband was on the Eris we called VZW about the update to 2.1, and we were told that it was up to HTC, and were given HTC's phone number, only to have HTC tell us it is up to VZW...i tend to believe HTC on this one. My point is this, how/why is samsung the culprit of the fascinate not getting 2.2?

**Chris Kerrigan** · 01-13-2011, 06:19 PM

Because it's easy to pit the blame on Samsung. They make the phone, they develop the software, so naturally it falls on them. Unfortunately, some people also forget that it ultimately is in the carriers hands when an update gets published and pushed out to the customers.