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  1. #101  

    Default Re: PSA - Serious Flaw in the Verizon Galaxy Nexus

    Quote Originally Posted by TabGuy View Post
    And, in fact, for everyone saying something doesn't work there is often a similar number that say theirs does work. Followed by a punishing post by the complainers telling the satisfied group to **** out. This type of punishing behavior tends to quiet those that are satisfied so the resulting posts tend to be overwhelmingly in favor the aggressive complainers.
    Honestly, it's like those of us who don't have problems with the phone for some reason don't count. The complainers don't want to acknowledge that we exist, or they make up some sort of excuse for why we think our phones aren't problematic.

    It's pretty insulting, really, the way people don't want to validate those of us who have a positive experience with the Galaxy Nexus.
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  2. #102  

    Default Re: PSA - Serious Flaw in the Verizon Galaxy Nexus

    I will say I agree about the decibels. We cant go by them right now somewhat. The ICS leak for the RAZR shows the phone and data reception on the Status screen. Maybe then we can when more phones get ICS and hopefully show them separately. .

    I used to go by decibels before the G Nex came out. You still can... just know what they actually represent and you will be fine.

    Even then....especially after the G Nex and the decibel, signal controversy...nothing....nothing trumps real world use, results.

    About those who do have problems and those who dont.....its a 2 way street. We cant dismiss ether side. At the same time.....like it was mentioned and what I tell ppl now....just visit the different forum sections and see what issues all these phones have and dont have. It will give you a better idea about the truth that is in between somewhere.
  3. Thread Author  Thread Author    #103  
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    Default Re: PSA - Serious Flaw in the Verizon Galaxy Nexus

    Wow this thread sure has spurred on a lot of good discussion which was the intent. Iím going to address some of your points but not as direct quotes since there has been so much discussion and some people are saying the same things.

    * First of all I challenge someone to find the word scientific in the original post. You wonít because I didnít. I too have had research training (in my case social science but the principles are the same) so I am well aware that this is not 100% scientific. But I take issue with those who say it has no validity whatsoever.

    * In an ideal world I would have had more than one device, measured in more than one place, by someone else (double blind study), in a lab where conditions could be controlled, but thatís not practical in the real world. I used as many scientific controls as I could given the circumstances.

    * Donít like my numbers present your own but you need to use similar or better controls. But if you donít have one or more of the same devices that I do all running stock firmware (meaning not rooted, no updated radios, custom roms, etc.) then it is an invalid comparison to mine. Other than an unlocked bootloader my device is 100% stock.

    * As for my own bias, honestly I was completely blown away by how much of a difference there was consistently. I had done some measurements before, but in the back of my head I told myself they must be isolated incidents and that the data would even out to something closer to the others (it was obvious that it was poor but it couldnít be THAT bad) and was surprised that it didnít. This whole thing started with a discussion I had with a Verizon employee, who was also having issues with his device. He and I were both looking forward to this phone coming out and buying it as soon as it was available. He was convinced that the problem was hardware and would not be fixed with software updates. I on the other hand was more optimistic of an improvement given what I remember of the Droid Charge last year.

    * I am well aware that EM radiation from the body can effect dBm so any time I present these kinds of readings or do speed tests the device is un-cased and lying on the table (or in some cases in a charger dock). I NEVER hold the device when taking the readings.

    * The data is presented in this order but the readings were not taken in any particular order, in fact numerous times the Nexus was the first one measured.

    * As for the 3G vs 4G dBm measurement if you noticed in one of the posts in the first page Droid800 brought this up and I changed the setting on my Nexus forcing 3G and the dBm was 5 points better, so even if you accept a 5 point margin for error the difference is still compelling. Iím not 100% sure he is completely right there about the other devices since I have seen stark differences with the Bionic when swapping between the two when doing some testing at work when we were trying to find out why the LTE wasnít working in our building (Verizon later adjusted the towers in the area to make it work most of the time). My Verizon rep certainly believed that changing the setting in the phone changed the dBm reading. But for the sake or argument I am willing to concede that he is probably right.

    * Iím actually still collecting data (Nexus forced to 3G) and will release a chart showing another weeks data at the end of the week (Sometime Sunday when I get around to it) but honestly I donít expect that much of a difference based upon the last two days.

    * To those of you who flat out ďdonít believeĒ my data that is your right I guess, but I would challenge you to look at your own biases. Iím not naive enough to believe that ďnumbers donít lieĒ but I also know that generally refers to skewed statistics which is why my raw data is presented in the graphic at the bottom of the original post for anyone to read who wants to.

    * Those who argue that the numbers must be wrong because you get better signal: Good for you that means you are in a better coverage area. I never said I was in a great coverage area. I could get better numbers too if I went to another room or outside, but thatís not the point. As long as my readings are tall taken in the same place the comparison between them and other devices is still valid.

    Letís keep the discussion going. A couple of you have reacted shocked that the thread has gone on this long and been liked as many times as it has. NEWSFLASH this device has issues, people know it and the discussion isnít going away any time soon. It is my expectation to keep this tread going until Samsung, Google, and Verizon fix the problem. Everyone is welcome to post opposing views if you want as long as you are respectful about it.
    Android is all about Personal Choice: Droid RAZR HD, Droid DNA, SGSIII, SG Note 2, HTC One X+, Galaxy Nexus, Nexus4... Hating is so Apple... we're better than that!

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  4. Thread Author  Thread Author    #104  
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    Default Re: PSA - Serious Flaw in the Verizon Galaxy Nexus

    OK so I will respond to one directly.

    Quote Originally Posted by ultravisitor View Post
    Honestly, it's like those of us who don't have problems with the phone for some reason don't count. The complainers don't want to acknowledge that we exist, or they make up some sort of excuse for why we think our phones aren't problematic.

    It's pretty insulting, really, the way people don't want to validate those of us who have a positive experience with the Galaxy Nexus.
    Honestly that is exactly how I and others who are having issues feel when we post in the various thread expressing our issues, others who are NOT having issues dismiss the fact that we DO. I'm sorry that you feel sidelined but you need to face the fact that many of is DO have issues (and not all of them are bum hardware) just as WE need to accept that there are those of you who don't.

    Don't take any of this personal and keep the discussion going.
    Android is all about Personal Choice: Droid RAZR HD, Droid DNA, SGSIII, SG Note 2, HTC One X+, Galaxy Nexus, Nexus4... Hating is so Apple... we're better than that!

    Correcting Some of the Shared Everything Misinformation * My Phone Collection

    PSA - Verizon Galaxy Nexus Signal Strength Comparison
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  5. #105  
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    Default Re: PSA - Serious Flaw in the Verizon Galaxy Nexus

    You're probably the only person who has tried doing this without simply trolling, turning it into vitriol, or just getting off on the wrong foot.

    Bravo.
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  6. #106  
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    Default Re: PSA - Serious Flaw in the Verizon Galaxy Nexus

    Quote Originally Posted by thebignewt View Post
    My background is science. My quesion to those who say that the OP's "experiment" isn't valid is this: How do you explain his data? (this doesn't qualify as an experiment, nor did he profess it to be one). My second question is: Do you regard his data as showing a significant difference between the signal strenths of the 6 phones? My take is that there is a difference in signal strenth where he lives, a significant difference. I would be loath to attribute it to his hand touching the phone, the orientation of the phone, the fact that 6 phones were operating simultanously as someone suggested.
    People have different standards when it comes to making a decision. If I wanted a nexus, this thread could make me say no. Most nexus users agree the tittle is misleading and not true even with the chart. It states the flaw, but is it? Miss leading unfortunately, and doesn't help someone trying to decide. If the signal experiment was done over several locations and times of day and on random days you could then begin to gather some "real world data," not one opinion that doesn't provide evidence that the nexus has a terminal flaw. I am so not convinced, but I like situations as evidenced by.

    The argument is two things, is the flaw real, or is the science behind the flaw not solid evidence. For me, it's a no go, but for others, it's enough and many would avoid the nexus on this alone. Just depends on who you are and what it takes for you to decide. Anyway.....good luck to all those that get that flaw....real or perceived. And to those that don't get the flaw or perceive it, congratulations.
  7. #107  
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    This thread is a both fun and irritating read.

    First congrats to the op for finally getting a little data on the issue. All the "discussions" I have seen have all been ppl with the issue complaining and ppl without calling them liers with no evidence on either side. You have tried to put a little evidence up and done a pretty good job.

    One question though, if the data showed the opposite, how would the same ppl be talking? Would the ones saying his data is crap now be saying it is proof that there is no problem? Would the ones defending him be saying he is a lier and that their is a massive problem that his phone is the exception to?

    Just doing my part to fail at trying to rationalise the internet :rolleyes:
    Galaxy S3(unlocked on whatever I feel like flashing) ---- Asus Tf300(unlocked on CROMI)
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  8. #108  
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    Default Re: PSA - Serious Flaw in the Verizon Galaxy Nexus

    Just need to know what the flaw is. Is it the radio, firmware, hardware, what is the flaw caused by? Subjective isn't definitive. Pretty simple. We need to prove the flaw, so Sammy/Verizon will bend over, but this has failed to do so. What do you plan to do to prove it? At any rate, agree the thread is a good one and I apologize to VZWrocks if I came off strong there at first.....I just disagree, you still are on to something though.
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  9. #109  
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoYankees44 View Post
    One question though, if the data showed the opposite, how would the same ppl be talking? Would the ones saying his data is crap now be saying it is proof that there is no problem?
    Thats exactly what they would do.. classic.

    I now have to leave this thread cause it makes me mad. Haha. All the reasons i got rid of the GNex.

    via RAZR Maxx
  10. Thread Author  Thread Author    #110  
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    Default Re: PSA - Serious Flaw in the Verizon Galaxy Nexus

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnly View Post
    Just need to know what the flaw is. Is it the radio, firmware, hardware, what is the flaw caused by? Subjective isn't definitive. Pretty simple. We need to prove the flaw, so Sammy/Verizon will bend over, but this has failed to do so. What do you plan to do to prove it? At any rate, agree the thread is a good one and I apologize to VZWrocks if I came off strong there at first.....I just disagree, you still are on to something though.
    That's okay Johnly, I fully expected to have opposing views and need to defend my own. I probably should have put some of the things I listed a couple posts back in the OP but that post was written late at night after a long day of work. Everyone's got their opinions and that is cool.

    For me, assuming there is a flaw (and I obviously think there is) it is probably firmware since most people on newer firmware dont seem to be having issues. It's also possible that it was a flashing issue when they devices were first flashed since it does seem to help when some people re-flash the stock radios. I look forward to the day when I can end this thread with "Problem solved: Install the latest OTA and you should be good."
    Android is all about Personal Choice: Droid RAZR HD, Droid DNA, SGSIII, SG Note 2, HTC One X+, Galaxy Nexus, Nexus4... Hating is so Apple... we're better than that!

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    PSA - Verizon Galaxy Nexus Signal Strength Comparison
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  11. #111  
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    Default Re: PSA - Serious Flaw in the Verizon Galaxy Nexus

    Quote Originally Posted by VZWRocks View Post
    That's okay Johnly, I fully expected to have opposing views and need to defend my own. I probably should have put some of the things I listed a couple posts back in the OP but that post was written late at night after a long day of work. Everyone's got their opinions and that is cool.

    For me, assuming there is a flaw (and I obviously think there is) it is probably firmware since most people on newer firmware dont seem to be having issues. It's also possible that it was a flashing issue when they devices were first flashed since it does seem to help when some people re-flash the stock radios. I look forward to the day when I can end this thread with "Problem solved: Install the latest OTA and you should be good."
    I hear you man. As others have said the gnex is a overal pretty crappy device. Phil thinks this is the end of the nexus. People blame the carrier for a crappy nexus, but I think googles product needs to improve tremendously. I wanted to keep mine, but I never had signal issues and I got the phone day of launch. All the radios and stock and custom ROMs. Never had dropped calls, worse the mic would quit working and the other party could not hear me. Happened on all those OS I ran. That seemed like a inherent flaw for sure! Have a good evening and Panda rap is awesome
  12. #112  

    Default Re: PSA - Serious Flaw in the Verizon Galaxy Nexus

    With the RAZR showing -mid to low -90's and everything else besides the G Nex And Bionic averaging the mid to low -90's....I will unscientifically assume it was in a weaker reception area.

    I consider the mid -70's and lower good a reception area. The low -80 kinda is ok too.

    The Bionic showing the lowest than the other Moto phones is interesting tho. The T Bolt results are interesting too. I will assume updates made them better. Samsung might need to kick out some more radio updates pronto...

    The thing thats overlooked in all this sometimes is.....do the GSM users have the same issues?
  13. Thread Author  Thread Author    #113  
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    Default Re: PSA - Serious Flaw in the Verizon Galaxy Nexus

    Quote Originally Posted by jroc View Post
    With the RAZR showing -mid to low -90's and everything else besides the G Nex And Bionic averaging the mid to low -90's....I will unscientifically assume it was in a weaker reception area.

    I consider the mid -70's and lower good a reception area. The low -80 kinda is ok too.

    The Bionic showing the lowest than the other Moto phones is interesting tho. The T Bolt results are interesting too. I will assume updates made them better. Samsung needs to kick out some more radio updates pronto...

    The thing that's overlooked in all this sometimes is.....do the GSM users have the same issues?
    Yes your assumptions are basally on the mark. Going to another room does improve reception but that would defeat the uprpose (unless I were to take the same measurements in two rooms which might be interesting but honestly I dont know if I have the time to do that lol.

    No the GSM users do not and that's the point they have completely different radios and I believe that is the real reason most of the bloggers have not jumped on this issue: most of them imported GSM ones because they didn't want to wait and/or didn't believe that a Verizon Nexus would really be a Nexus with updates direct from Google.
    Android is all about Personal Choice: Droid RAZR HD, Droid DNA, SGSIII, SG Note 2, HTC One X+, Galaxy Nexus, Nexus4... Hating is so Apple... we're better than that!

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    PSA - Verizon Galaxy Nexus Signal Strength Comparison
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  14. #114  
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    Default Re: PSA - Serious Flaw in the Verizon Galaxy Nexus

    I believe my GN gets a slightly worse signal while plugged in to charge. I assume there is a little interference during the charging. So I'd recommend making sure that when you take your measurements to do so with all the phones not plugged in. Saw that you said some of the phones were on their chargers.
  15. #115  

    Default Re: PSA - Serious Flaw in the Verizon Galaxy Nexus

    When all all the data is presented and all the talk has quieted and the dust finally settles the only thing that matters is: Does this phone work for me. This is the same question we all ask ourselves. We don't really care if it works for you, your brother, your mother or anyone else. The data doesn't matter at that point.

    If I spend 15 minutes a month on phone calls do I really care if it drops calls? No.

    If I live where there's no 4G do I really care if the transition between 4G and 3G isn't smooth? No.

    If I only read forums and send text messages do I care if 4G is unstable? No.

    It boils down to one thing and one thing only: Does it do what I need to do? If the answer is yes then it matters not what the data on the original post shows. It's that simple.
    Droid (2009 original stock) --> Incredible --> Thunderbolt (Rooted/ROMed) --> Galaxy Nexus (Rooted/ROMed) --> Note 2 (Rooted/ROMed) --> Note 3 (Stock)
  16. #116  

    Default Re: PSA - Serious Flaw in the Verizon Galaxy Nexus

    My only gripe with this thread is the title. Public Service Announcement? You gotta be filled with your own self importance to title a thread like that.
  17. #117  

    Default Re: PSA - Serious Flaw in the Verizon Galaxy Nexus

    Here's an aside...

    I use my Nexus as a wifi hotspot to feed data to my Galaxy Tab 10.1. I often watch TV using my Vulkano Flow (it's similar to Slingbox) on the Tab. Tonight, while my wife was driving, I watched the NCAA championship game while we drove from Santa Monica to Ventura county. For those of you that know the area you know I went through 3 mountain ranges in that drive. I lost connection to my Vulkano Flow only twice and it connected immediately when I did a retry. For me, that's success. I watched the basketball game successfully for 45 minutes while traveling down freeways in Southern California.

    Success.
    Droid (2009 original stock) --> Incredible --> Thunderbolt (Rooted/ROMed) --> Galaxy Nexus (Rooted/ROMed) --> Note 2 (Rooted/ROMed) --> Note 3 (Stock)
  18. Thread Author  Thread Author    #118  
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    Default Re: PSA - Serious Flaw in the Verizon Galaxy Nexus

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeNM84 View Post
    I believe my GN gets a slightly worse signal while plugged in to charge. I assume there is a little interference during the charging. So I'd recommend making sure that when you take your measurements to do so with all the phones not plugged in. Saw that you said some of the phones were on their chargers.
    I dont believe the Nexus was plugged in during any of the times I took readings (no dock), but thanks I will keep that in mind. I dont believe that the times that the other phones were plugged in that it made any difference between the times when I measured them not plugged in but good point.
    Android is all about Personal Choice: Droid RAZR HD, Droid DNA, SGSIII, SG Note 2, HTC One X+, Galaxy Nexus, Nexus4... Hating is so Apple... we're better than that!

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    PSA - Verizon Galaxy Nexus Signal Strength Comparison
  19. Thread Author  Thread Author    #119  
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    Default Re: PSA - Serious Flaw in the Verizon Galaxy Nexus

    Quote Originally Posted by ShinyTop View Post
    My only gripe with this thread is the title. Public Service Announcement? You gotta be filled with your own self importance to title a thread like that.
    I'm sorry if that offends you but as I stated earlier in the thread I chose the name because it is the first time that I am aware of that hard data has been used to back up claims and it is aimed largely at those considering getting the device, and yes I do believe I am performing a public service making this info publicly available to read and comment on rather than just mailing it off to Verizon/Samsung.
    Android is all about Personal Choice: Droid RAZR HD, Droid DNA, SGSIII, SG Note 2, HTC One X+, Galaxy Nexus, Nexus4... Hating is so Apple... we're better than that!

    Correcting Some of the Shared Everything Misinformation * My Phone Collection

    PSA - Verizon Galaxy Nexus Signal Strength Comparison
  20. #120  

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnly View Post
    I hear you man. As others have said the gnex is a overal pretty crappy device. Phil thinks this is the end of the nexus. People blame the carrier for a crappy nexus, but I think googles product needs to improve tremendously. I wanted to keep mine, but I never had signal issues and I got the phone day of launch. All the radios and stock and custom ROMs. Never had dropped calls, worse the mic would quit working and the other party could not hear me. Happened on all those OS I ran. That seemed like a inherent flaw for sure! Have a good evening and Panda rap is awesome
    I'm betting if there is an end to the Nexus it will be due to it's roll out on the Sprint network.
    That is a CDMA network with some major coverage issues of it's own. So when you mix in the inherent signal strength issues the current Nexus has, I believe it's a recipe for disaster for Samsung. So unless the RF section is better than Verizon's CDMA Nexus. This could get real dicey for the new generation of Nexus owners. Time will tell.
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  21. Thread Author  Thread Author    #121  
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    Default Re: PSA - Serious Flaw in the Verizon Galaxy Nexus

    Quote Originally Posted by rbess1965 View Post
    I'm betting if there is an end to the Nexus it will be due to it's roll out on the Sprint network.
    That is a CDMA network with some major coverage issues of it's own. So when you mix in the inherent signal strength issues the current Nexus has, I believe it's a recipe for disaster for Samsung. So unless the RF section is better than Verizon's CDMA Nexus. This could get real dicey for the new generation of Nexus owners. Time will tell.
    I'm not sure about LTE, but I know the CDMA200 1xRTT components of their network are the same as Verizon so in all likelyhood some if not all of the same radio code will be used.

    Although this may also be part of the reason the device launch on that network has been delayed so much.
    Android is all about Personal Choice: Droid RAZR HD, Droid DNA, SGSIII, SG Note 2, HTC One X+, Galaxy Nexus, Nexus4... Hating is so Apple... we're better than that!

    Correcting Some of the Shared Everything Misinformation * My Phone Collection

    PSA - Verizon Galaxy Nexus Signal Strength Comparison
  22. #122  

    Default Re: PSA - Serious Flaw in the Verizon Galaxy Nexus

    Me personally being on Sprint, I was amped at first to get at a GNex... Now almost 6 months old I'm looking to pass on this being a current NS4G owner and previous Samsung Epic 4g owner. Bottom line, Samsung has issues with their radios... They just have never worked like they should no matter what they do to the supporting software. If they could ever look into different modem/radios all Samsung phones would be so much better off. Its a shame so many Samsung devices are ruined because of a sub par radio.

    Just my 2 cents.
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  23. #123  

    Default Re: PSA - Serious Flaw in the Verizon Galaxy Nexus

    Quote Originally Posted by TabGuy View Post
    When all all the data is presented and all the talk has quieted and the dust finally settles the only thing that matters is: Does this phone work for me. This is the same question we all ask ourselves. We don't really care if it works for you, your brother, your mother or anyone else. The data doesn't matter at that point.

    If I spend 15 minutes a month on phone calls do I really care if it drops calls? No.

    If I live where there's no 4G do I really care if the transition between 4G and 3G isn't smooth? No.

    If I only read forums and send text messages do I care if 4G is unstable? No.

    It boils down to one thing and one thing only: Does it do what I need to do? If the answer is yes then it matters not what the data on the original post shows. It's that simple.
    I kinda agree with this. Basically its about wants n needs. My thing about the examples tho is....why not just get a 3G phone or a tablet, pmp? Save money with no phone bill.

    What about folks that travel, even if its from time to time? I go in between 2 states on a regular basis: DC and MD. Sometimes VA.

    What about the times when its a dire emergency.....

    But I agree...it all comes down to wants n needs, or should. Figure out what yours are and it will tell you what you are willing/not willing to deal with. I just got a PS Vita...and so far seems like data reception is better on AT&T. So much that I may get a AT&T phone to see if its true. If so.....I may be switching carriers.

    Wants n needs. If your issues arent as severe as others, great. If it is....find out what can be done about it.
  24. #124  

    Default Re: PSA - Serious Flaw in the Verizon Galaxy Nexus

    In spite of your good intentions PSA makes it sound like something official which it is not. I have the same issue with posters who title their thread official. Not a bad conversation, just a very misleading title.
  25. #125  

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by VZWRocks View Post
    I'm not sure about LTE, but I know the CDMA200 1xRTT components of their network are the same as Verizon so in all likelyhood some if not all of the same radio code will be used.

    Although this may also be part of the reason the device launch on that network has been delayed so much.
    I have friends on Sprint that hate the coverage using their current phones. I'm a communications tech and wireless administrator for my company responsible for supplying our executives with their devices and we will never use Sprint. We have accounts with ATT, T-Mobile and Verizon only. I feel badly for Sprint users if they don't get an option for the Razr Maxx or equally reliable device.
    "When you turn your Android on, does it return the favor?"
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