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  1. Thread Author  Thread Author    #1  
    Rlin5741's Avatar

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    Default Rooting and System Apps on OTAs

    I am relatively new was hoping to get an answer from the veterans here to a couple questions:

    - Will rooting, installing apps as system apps or root apps (I.e. root install option on avast or designating APN app as system in the global phone activation hack) affect your ability to get OTAs? it looks like there have been some OTAs in the past and hoping to hear from someone who tried those OTAs over a rooted SGS3 with new system apps - I had read in the One X forum that some OTAs do a checksum of the entire system directory and as a result fails if you install new apps as system or if you are rooted.
    - Same question, but as it relates to a future Jelly Bean OTA - would doing any of the above affect ability to get Jelly Bean OTA whenever it is released.

    I realize that I will lose root in an OTA, but I am confident the community will have that new software re-rooted in no time so figure it's an acceptable risk to take :-).
  2. #2  

    Default Re: Rooting and System Apps on OTAs

    Quote Originally Posted by Rlin5741 View Post
    I am relatively new was hoping to get an answer from the veterans here to a couple questions:

    - Will rooting, installing apps as system apps or root apps (I.e. root install option on avast or designating APN app as system in the global phone activation hack) affect your ability to get OTAs? it looks like there have been some OTAs in the past and hoping to hear from someone who tried those OTAs over a rooted SGS3 with new system apps - I had read in the One X forum that some OTAs do a checksum of the entire system directory and as a result fails if you install new apps as system or if you are rooted.
    - Same question, but as it relates to a future Jelly Bean OTA - would doing any of the above affect ability to get Jelly Bean OTA whenever it is released.

    I realize that I will lose root in an OTA, but I am confident the community will have that new software re-rooted in no time so figure it's an acceptable risk to take :-).
    The rule of thumb is this: IF YOU ARE ROOTED, DO NOT INSTALL ANY OTA UPDATES!!!

    Doing so can cause a lot of problems, ranging anywhere from the update just failing to soft-bricked phone. There are a few threads around here specifically on how to block OTA updates from getting to your rooted phone.

    To be honest, I don't think your question regarding installing apps with root or system permissions would have much effect on the OTA, although it possibly you could fail some checks if you've made too many changes...this is why removing bloatware can cause OTAs to fail I believe. Usually, however, the biggest issue in OTA failure on rooted phones is the fact that the recovery partition has been over-written with a custom recovery. The OTA expects to have the stock recovery partition available, and then craps out when it isn't there.

    As I always say, with rooting comes great responsibility...you have to be willing to manage your device's updates yourself and not rely on Verizon to push them to you. When updates are released, especially for a phone with as much dev support as this on has, someone will post a rooted version in a ROM package that you can install -- so it's not even that difficult. When the JB update is finally released, you'll essentially have 2 choices:

    1. Unroot and restore to stock to get the update...with no guarantee that you'll be able to re-root the device once finished
    2. Wait for a rooted version of the JB update to be released and install it. (sometimes the rooted version actually gets released before the official version)

    I highly recommend choice #2, although it surprises me just how many folks will take the first option.
  3. #3  
    grunt0300's Avatar

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    Default Re: Rooting and System Apps on OTAs

    @paintdrinkingpete: Thanks for your post. I finally found a safe way to root my SGSIII, with my MacBook Pro(androidrootz video). After reading your post, and being a complete noobie at rooting, i've decided to wait until after the JB update gets to my phone, and then root.
    Give yourself, to the Dark Side!
  4. #4  
    Anonamoose's Avatar

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    Default Re: Rooting and System Apps on OTAs

    Whatever you want to do friend. Most (but not all ) Developers actually block the OTAs by removing certain files . I do know that even with the newest HE base you cant still root. Also if you choose to wait be forwarned that the current rooting method might not work and you'd either have to A) wait for some one to figure it out B) Never get root . If you root now and wait some one will come out with a safe to flash rooted version of Jellybean . We actually already have a few jelly bean roms but as they are not from Verizon leaks they are a little buggy. No matter what you do good luck and enjoy your phone. It's a beast even without rooting!
    Forgot to backup stock on your Optimus S? Use Mine!
    http://forums.androidcentral.com/lg-...-stock-vd.html

    Anon-A-Moose
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    Thanks Everyone for your hard work!!!

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  5. Thread Author  Thread Author    #5  
    Rlin5741's Avatar

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    Default Re: Rooting and System Apps on OTAs

    I believe I have my phone just rooted without custom recovery; I followed the instructions in the sticky to the point where it talked about a custom recovery - is there a quick way to check? I do not need a custom recovery. Have you heard of people who have root, no frozen apps, and stock recovery being able to take OTAs? In the Droid 3 community on xda, the consensus was that OTAs were ok so long as you did't mess with the bloatware, recovery, etc.
  6. Thread Author  Thread Author    #6  
    Rlin5741's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by paintdrinkingpete View Post
    The rule of thumb is this: IF YOU ARE ROOTED, DO NOT INSTALL ANY OTA UPDATES!!!

    Doing so can cause a lot of problems, ranging anywhere from the update just failing to soft-bricked phone. There are a few threads around here specifically on how to block OTA updates from getting to your rooted phone.

    To be honest, I don't think your question regarding installing apps with root or system permissions would have much effect on the OTA, although it possibly you could fail some checks if you've made too many changes...this is why removing bloatware can cause OTAs to fail I believe. Usually, however, the biggest issue in OTA failure on rooted phones is the fact that the recovery partition has been over-written with a custom recovery. The OTA expects to have the stock recovery partition available, and then craps out when it isn't there.

    As I always say, with rooting comes great responsibility...you have to be willing to manage your device's updates yourself and not rely on Verizon to push them to you. When updates are released, especially for a phone with as much dev support as this on has, someone will post a rooted version in a ROM package that you can install -- so it's not even that difficult. When the JB update is finally released, you'll essentially have 2 choices:

    1. Unroot and restore to stock to get the update...with no guarantee that you'll be able to re-root the device once finished
    2. Wait for a rooted version of the JB update to be released and install it. (sometimes the rooted version actually gets released before the official version)

    I highly recommend choice #2, although it surprises me just how many folks will take the first option.
    Is there a way time Unroot without reflashing a stock ROM? I.e. unroot while preserving apps and settings.
  7. #7  

    Default Re: Rooting and System Apps on OTAs

    No it will not prevent you from applying OTAs, but you should dirty flash stock Odex builds of updated software via XDA.
    ()

    Regardless of what warnings you might read, taking any OTA while rooted will simply deny root access until you re-root. Some devices won't have new root methods out the gate, but so far debugs root tool works on every official Verizon OTA.

    Sent From My Rooted/Modded SGSIII - If I've helped you please click 'Thanks'!
  8. #8  

    Default Re: Rooting and System Apps on OTAs

    Quote Originally Posted by grunt0300 View Post
    @paintdrinkingpete: Thanks for your post. I finally found a safe way to root my SGSIII, with my MacBook Pro(androidrootz video). After reading your post, and being a complete noobie at rooting, i've decided to wait until after the JB update gets to my phone, and then root.
    To anyone skeptical, the fact is that managing your own updates really isn't very difficult -- even if it may come across that way to a noob or novice Android user. To be 100% honest, when everything is said and done, I would think that UN-rooting, then applying updates, then re-rooting is both a more risky and more difficult venture than just grabbing a rooted version of the updated OS in a ROM and installing it.

    Many people new to the whole process don't realize that and believe it's 100% necessary to install all OTAs and official updates. It's not. Again, especially for a device with this much dev support, you can also find a flash-able version to work with.

    Personally, I like to root once and never have to worry about it again. Seems silly to wait for a particular update before rooting, especially when that update may break the exploits currently used to gain root in the first place! Think for many it's just a matter of changing how you think about it....

    Of course, if you haven't rooted yet and would rather just wait, I get that too -- rooting certainly isn't necessary for everyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rlin5741 View Post
    I believe I have my phone just rooted without custom recovery; I followed the instructions in the sticky to the point where it talked about a custom recovery - is there a quick way to check? I do not need a custom recovery. Have you heard of people who have root, no frozen apps, and stock recovery being able to take OTAs? In the Droid 3 community on xda, the consensus was that OTAs were ok so long as you did't mess with the bloatware, recovery, etc.
    It is certainly possible to root without installing a custom recovery -- however most tutorials written on the various forums and such do include that as a step, so that's usually just an assumption. I guess the way to tell would be to boot into recovery and see. I honestly have no idea what the stock recovery looks like, but most custom recoveries will show their version on the screen, i.e. "ClockworkMod Recovery vx.x.x.x".

    If you haven't flashed a custom recovery or removed any system apps (bloatware) or anything like that, then I would assume that could safely install an OTA update...however you will lose root if you do, and I still don't recommend it.
    Last edited by paintdrinkingpete; 10-24-2012 at 02:20 PM.

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