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  1. Thread Author  Thread Author    #1  

    Default FYI: Verizon, by law is not allowed to block tethering on 4G devices

    The 2008 auction at which Verizon bought their LTE spectrum requires compliance with open network protocol--see

    See

    The terms of this include:
    Specifically, a C Block licensee may not block, degrade, or interfere with the ability of end users to download and utilize applications of their choosing on the licensee's C Block network, subject to reasonable network management. We anticipate that wireless service providers will address this requirement by developing reasonable standards, including through participation in standards setting organizations, as discussed below.

    In addition, C Block licensees cannot exclude applications or devices solely on the basis that such applications or devices would unreasonably increase bandwidth demands. We anticipate that demand can be adequately managed through feasible facility improvements or technology-neutral capacity pricing that does not discriminate against subscribers using third-party devices or applications.
  2. #2  
    SUB-dawg's Avatar
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    lets all chip in a dollar and sue them! lol jk but that is pretty amazing.
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    Adrynalyne's Avatar
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    Hmmm, interesting.
  4. #4  

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    Nice find.
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  6. Thread Author  Thread Author    #6  

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    I think we can also put to bed the idea that tethering is stealing. Verizon agreed to let us do it, data is data no matter where it comes from and the FCC agrees.
  7. #7  
    project.in.process's Avatar

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    i'll attach this to my monthly bill payment.

    wait, i pay online....crap!

    sounds a little fishy to me, Verizon
  8. #8  

    Default Just side load it

    Download to your hearts content at this address. F big red.

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    Droid800's Avatar
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    That says nothing about your contract. Your contract legally denies you the right to tether unless you pay for it.

    Or in other words; your analysis is wrong. Verizon is perfectly allowed to block UNAUTHORIZED tethering.
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  10. #10  

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    Yea, I saw the person who noticed it first post it here:
  11. #11  

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    Quote Originally Posted by tekhna View Post
    The terms of this include:
    Specifically, a C Block licensee may not block, degrade, or interfere with the ability of end users to download and utilize applications of their choosing on the licensee's C Block network, subject to reasonable network management. We anticipate that wireless service providers will address this requirement by developing reasonable standards, including through participation in standards setting organizations, as discussed below.

    In addition, C Block licensees cannot exclude applications or devices solely on the basis that such applications or devices would unreasonably increase bandwidth demands. We anticipate that demand can be adequately managed through feasible facility improvements or technology-neutral capacity pricing that does not discriminate against subscribers using third-party devices or applications.
    Um, call me crazy or stupid, but is there a single tethering app out there that isn't the currently free to use til may 15th one that supports 4g? If there is, does it have 0 support for 3g? I ask because the thing says that 4g network access cannot be hindered, the 700 mhz spectrum, but all tethering apps use 3g, or have support for 3g. Since verizon has the right to block 3g tethering, isn't it fully within their rights to block such apps as best as possible to as to protect their 3G network? Now if you can point me to a 4G lte tethering app that has no 3g or 2g support and which verizon has blocked, then I'd say they are violating the terms they agreed to. However I don't believe such a thing has happened yet, and they still have free 4g tethering via their own wireless hotspot app til the 15th, so no one has any right to really even complain until then.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Droid800 View Post
    That says nothing about your contract. Your contract legally denies you the right to tether unless you pay for it.

    Or in other words; your analysis is wrong. Verizon is perfectly allowed to block UNAUTHORIZED tethering.
    Federal law>legally questionable contract. Next question?

    Edit: to put it more clearly, you can't put an illegal clause in a contract. That's obvious, right?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Droid800 View Post
    That says nothing about your contract. Your contract legally denies you the right to tether unless you pay for it.

    Or in other words; your analysis is wrong. Verizon is perfectly allowed to block UNAUTHORIZED tethering.
    No.

    As is noted in the original source of this (link above), they can't charge any additional fees (one-time or recurring) for use of any app. That would include a tethering app.
  14. #14  

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    Quote Originally Posted by ben7337 View Post
    Um, call me crazy or stupid, but is there a single tethering app out there that isn't the currently free to use til may 15th one that supports 4g? If there is, does it have 0 support for 3g? I ask because the thing says that 4g network access cannot be hindered, the 700 mhz spectrum, but all tethering apps use 3g, or have support for 3g. Since verizon has the right to block 3g tethering, isn't it fully within their rights to block such apps as best as possible to as to protect their 3G network? Now if you can point me to a 4G lte tethering app that has no 3g or 2g support and which verizon has blocked, then I'd say they are violating the terms they agreed to. However I don't believe such a thing has happened yet, and they still have free 4g tethering via their own wireless hotspot app til the 15th, so no one has any right to really even complain until then.
    From what I gather from HoFo, they can't interfere with any app for devices on the 700mhz spectrum. Because the tether app just redirects a data connection (and it doesn't care what type that is) and VZW has a phone that uses that spectrum being blocked from this app, blocking it WOULD interfere with a user choosing to use an app.
  15. #15  

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    Good luck in acting upon this find. IMHO, it violates their EULA/TOS and they are not going to budge any time soon. You can either get over it or you can continue to cry foul for the forseeable future. I see no good can come from crying foul.

    It is the arrogant overindulgence of a select few that has the world of data where it is today. Hundreds of GB's of data in a month's time and then brag about it to boot. Now we will all pay for it.

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    curious as to how this is going to play out
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  17. #17  

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    Quote Originally Posted by AppleOfMyEye View Post
    From what I gather from HoFo, they can't interfere with any app for devices on the 700mhz spectrum. Because the tether app just redirects a data connection (and it doesn't care what type that is) and VZW has a phone that uses that spectrum being blocked from this app, blocking it WOULD interfere with a user choosing to use an app.
    The person on HoFo did say that they could potentially block the app from all 3g only devices though, all of these restrictions are only set on the 4g network. Also I see some contradictory language in the legal wording sort of. It says that Verizon can't block any apps simply because they would unreasonably increase bandwidth useage. However the loophole to not blocking apps says that they can deny access if it is "related to reasonable network management and protection, or compliance with applicable regulatory requirements." Thus I have to wonder if network management has nothing to do with bandwidth useage, then what is network management at all?
  18. #18  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Droid800 View Post
    That says nothing about your contract. Your contract legally denies you the right to tether unless you pay for it.

    Or in other words; your analysis is wrong. Verizon is perfectly allowed to block UNAUTHORIZED tethering.
    I think this confuses two different issues. Verizon is in the right enforce any legal aspect of a contract you have signed with them. But that is a totally different topic than whether they have the right to block access to certain apps or block access to parts of the radio spectrum that they themselves are contractually obligated to allow.
  19. #19  

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    Last time I checked, Congress passed laws and the President signed them. Not the FCC.
  20. #20  

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    Quote Originally Posted by ben7337 View Post
    The person on HoFo did say that they could potentially block the app from all 3g only devices though, all of these restrictions are only set on the 4g network. Also I see some contradictory language in the legal wording sort of. It says that Verizon can't block any apps simply because they would unreasonably increase bandwidth useage. However the loophole to not blocking apps says that they can deny access if it is "related to reasonable network management and protection, or compliance with applicable regulatory requirements." Thus I have to wonder if network management has nothing to do with bandwidth useage, then what is network management at all?
    That's a good point. I'll PM the author on HoFo and see what he says and post back here.
  21. Thread Author  Thread Author    #21  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liberati0n View Post
    Last time I checked, Congress passed laws and the President signed them. Not the FCC.
    Last time I checked, regulatory bodies did this crazy thing called regulate.
    Regulation: a governmental or ministerial order having the force of law
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    Quote Originally Posted by tekhna View Post
    Last time I checked, regulatory bodies did this crazy thing called regulate.
    Regulation: a governmental or ministerial order having the force of law
    Last I checked, congress cannot appoint people to positions to create laws therefore creating a defacto dictatorship.
  23. #23  
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    You guys are really taking this too far, if you honestly think verizon will come at you with the "ban" hammer, you are crazy.

    It's like with downloading music/movies, some people will be caught and hit hard to make an example. But believe me, you CANNOT stop the majority. It's all a scare tactic and if verizon keeps this crap up, they will lose millions and millions in revenue from dropped/kicked customers. Lose 30 dollar Hot Spot charge or lose 100's of dollars in cell phone bills. Do the math, its simple.
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  24. #24  

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    The FCC was appointed the duty to sell/auction off the 700mhz spectrum which was recently freed up, who's to say that the sale didn't come with a legally binding contract to which all buyers including verizon are legally expected to uphold? Sure it might not be a LAW that they have to do it, but it could very well be in a contract that they have to do that or will in some way be reprimanded/punished or have their rights to the spectrum revoked without and form of compensation, or something like that.

    Also the wikipedia link at the top of this thread says

    "After the open access rules were implemented, Verizon Wireless filed suit against the FCC on September 13, 2007, seeking to have the rules dismissed on the grounds that the open access requirement "violates the U.S. Constitution, violates the Administrative Procedures Act and is arbitrary, capricious, unsupported by the substantial evidence and otherwise contrary to law."[7] On October 23, Verizon chose to drop the lawsuit after losing its appeal for a speedy resolution on October 3. However, the CTIA stepped in to challenge the same regulations in a lawsuit filed the same day.[8] On November 13, 2008, the CTIA dropped its lawsuit against the FCC.[9]"


    Clearly it was decided that the regulations that they agreed to when buying the spectrum are not able to be taken down, if they were then verizon wouldn't have dropped the lawsuit over them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bthomp21 View Post
    You guys are really taking this too far, if you honestly think verizon will come at you with the "ban" hammer, you are crazy.

    It's like with downloading music/movies, some people will be caught and hit hard to make an example. But believe me, you CANNOT stop the majority. It's all a scare tactic and if verizon keeps this crap up, they will lose millions and millions in revenue from dropped/kicked customers. Lose 30 dollar Hot Spot charge or lose 100's of dollars in cell phone bills. Do the math, its simple.
    They're already doing it. Once the tiered pricing takes effect, you're going to start hearing stories of people whose service was terminated by Verizon for illegal tethering.
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