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  1. Thread Author  Thread Author    #1  
    robrecht's Avatar
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    Default HTC Test Phone to Document OTA Update Problems

    HTC is sending me a test phone to help test a couple of theories about the random rebooting problems.

    I've been working with a few good Verizon tech support staff and a network tech to document some localized rebooting and data connecivity problems. Several times, they've tried to send me a replacement phone but I've been trying to get them to look at the possibility that some of these issues might also be related to poorly set up local towers. For example, I've only ever noticed my phone spontaneously rebooting within about a 1 square-mile radius in a 3G area around my home. In contrast, I've only ever noticed data-connectivity problems while at work in a fairly strong 4G area. Now these problems are relatively infrequent on my phone. I almost always use WiFi at home, except when I'm driving around, so I've only noticed my phone randomly rebooting 5 or 6 times since the OTA update a couple of weeks ago. Likewise, I've only noticed a lost 4G data connection 6 times since the OTA update.

    Obviously, the OTA update is a major part of the problem, but I'm also interested in finding out if there's a network tower connection issue. Verizon tech support was reluctant to open a network ticket but I talked them into it. The network tech has a ThunderBolt, which is also having a reboot problem. His problem doesn't seem to be geographic specific but he has also heard the same stores we have about how for some of us it does seem to be location based. So he asked if I would be willing to speak with an HTC representative to help document user experience of this problem since the OTA update. Now, the HTC guy was very interested to hear about the possible network component of the problem, kind of happy to speculate about Verizon being partly to blame. He also wanted me to factory reboot my phone to test another idea about Google sync settings perhaps being related to the rebooting problem.

    Well, I was not going to reboot my phone again, just too much trouble to test what struck me as a rather silly idea about Google sync settings. But I did offer to test his silly theory on a test phone and to help document and troubleshoot the local issues I've been experiencing.

    So HTC is sending me a test phone. Cool.
  2. #2  

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    Very cool.
    It's refreshing to these companies actually listen to an average user. Please keep us informed on what you guys come up with.
  3. #3  
    HiPower's Avatar

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    Cool you're getting a test phone. Not cool they still don't know whats going on after several weeks.
  4. #4  
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    If Verizon and HTC don't have it nailed down by now or at least a clue we are all in trouble.
  5. #5  

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    I think it may be network related. Was having 5-6 rebooted a day after the ota until 4g was turned on in my area. After that I haven't had a single one.

    I know this doesn't address people having problems in other 4g areas, but its too big of a coincidence to go unnoted.

    Thunderbolt HO!!!!
  6. #6  
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    That's cool. Thanks for helping them help us. Now go figure it out and good luck!
  7. #7  

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    This is good news. I too have noticed a geographic coincidence with my reboots. I do not have constant reboots, and I do not have 4G where I live either, but I do a lot of travel with my job, and I have noticed my phone reboot in the exact same location twice. This is also an area that is on the list of cities to be upgrading to 4G "soon". These are the only reboots that I have had since doing the upgrade and it seems to be in an area where my phone is switching towers. The strange thing is the last time I went through this area it did not reboot, but I had it charging so I don't know if that had something to do with it. I am going to be in that area again next tue. and wed. so I was going to test it again and see if it reboots while not charging. Keep us updated and I will let you know what I find next week as I will be following this thread.
    If at first you don't succeed, read, read again.
  8. #8  
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    Mine were rebooting everywhere, so we got phones without the OTA update and they don't reboot anymore.

    I say its definitely the update.
  9. #9  
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    My first thunderbolt never rebooted once before the update. After it would reboot using the flashlight. Didnt matter where i was it would reboot. Got replacement and it rebooted twice in one hour. It has same firmware as update. Called Verizon and second tier tech said HTC knows about it and to be "patient" because an update is coming out in the next few weeks. Doesnt help alot when each reboot uses anywhere between 5-15% of battery life. I had one reboot use 25% For me it is the update completely that did this.
  10. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by nufan4115 View Post
    My first thunderbolt never rebooted once before the update. After it would reboot using the flashlight. Didnt matter where i was it would reboot. Got replacement and it rebooted twice in one hour. It has same firmware as update. Called Verizon and second tier tech said HTC knows about it and to be "patient" because an update is coming out in the next few weeks. Doesnt help alot when each reboot uses anywhere between 5-15% of battery life. I had one reboot use 25% For me it is the update completely that did this.
    When did he tell you this?

    -Frank
    [HTC Thunderbolt 4G/LTE!]
    It's not your dream phone. It's the one after that!
    Look here for a [VZW Coverage Map] to check your area. Select 4G before hitting [Refresh]
  11. Thread Author  Thread Author    #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanH View Post
    Mine were rebooting everywhere, so we got phones without the OTA update and they don't reboot anymore.

    I say its definitely the update.
    Quote Originally Posted by nufan4115 View Post
    ... For me it is the update completely that did this.
    No question it's the update. I am in no way disputing this. But it's the part of the update, the radio firmware, that controls how the phone and towers interact. Does anyone ever get reboots or lost WiFi data connections? I've been thinking about it along these lines for a while and I like the way Frank put it in another thread:
    Quote Originally Posted by FrankXS View Post
    I think they are network related too, but that does not necessarily mean the network is the culprit. It could be.

    I think it's all about the negotiations that take place between the phone and the network. These negotiations, if they produce erroneous handshake information, can be "fixed" by changing either the network software or the phone software. Doesn't really matter.

    Imagine this scenario... the network had bad code so HTC programmed their code to workaround a network code bug, to make the TBolt work. Then VZW corrected the code and the phone quit working. So HTC changed the phone code to make it work again. Being a new technology these changes/bug fixes will continue for a while (maybe a year?) before everything is hunky-dory.

    So... as I mentioned in another post, once the network is built out fully (and correctly) and the phones (not just the TBolt) are up to snuff with matching code, everything should be fine. However, you can't ignore the fact that this stuff is unavoidable when you are an early adopter of technology.

    -Frank
    People at both Verizon and HTC are trying to gather enough data to make and test more definitive hypotheses. For some reason, they do not want to simply revert back to the old radio. Is that because they believe they have fixed more problems than they've caused with the radio part of the update? I hope so, but we don't have enough data to know. Both the Verizon network tech and I have chosen to not get new phones without first trying to understand the problem better. Some replacement phones come with the update and some come without it. This isn't necessarily by design, but it would be nice if it were, and someone is tracking the results: to what extent is the particular phone a significant variable, to what extent is the update a variable, to what extent is network geographical location a variable, etc. I also keep remembering a comment by BMX, another Verizon network engineer, who said that the ThunderBolt could never really be released as a 3G phone because it was just too dependent upon the LTE technology. They've been building and tweaking this 4G network for a little while but I think this technology is still in its infancy so they're probably still learning a lot. At least I hope so. The ThunderBolt is the very first phone that communicates with the the new SVDO 3G (eHRPD) and 4G LTE network technologies.
    Last edited by robrecht; 05-28-2011 at 10:17 AM.
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  12. #12  
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    Quote Originally Posted by robrecht View Post
    The ThunderBolt is the very first phone that communicates with the the new SVDO 3G (eHRPD) and 4G LTE network technologies.
    Actually, I think it is still the only phone. That is, the only phone with simultaneous voice/data. I don't believe the 4G Samsung Charge nor the 4G LG Revolution have that.

    -Frank
    [HTC Thunderbolt 4G/LTE!]
    It's not your dream phone. It's the one after that!
    Look here for a [VZW Coverage Map] to check your area. Select 4G before hitting [Refresh]
  13. Thread Author  Thread Author    #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrankXS View Post
    Actually, I think it is still the only phone. That is, the only phone with simultaneous voice/data. I don't believe the 4G Samsung Charge nor the 4G LG Revolution have that.

    -Frank
    I know the Charge does not SVDO on 3G, wasn't sure about the Revolution yet. Thanks.
  14. #14  

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    I have a question about users having issues after the OTA update. I too are having some issues,I only reboot once a day and will always loose my 3G signal once a day.So, my issues is very minimal compared to other stories I've read about.

    I used that tip in the battery tip thread of using that code to turn off the 4G network.Could using this code be the reason some of us are having issues?
  15. Thread Author  Thread Author    #15  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigleftyinaz View Post
    I have a question about users having issues after the OTA update. I too are having some issues,I only reboot once a day and will always loose my 3G signal once a day.So, my issues is very minimal compared to other stories I've read about.

    I used that tip in the battery tip thread of using that code to turn off the 4G network.Could using this code be the reason some of us are having issues?
    No, not really, at least not for most people. My probs, which are also minimal, have never been related to that. After experimenting a few times, I never turn off 4G.

    However, if you describe your issue more fully, it could relate to your problem. One of the reasons I stopped bothering with the 4G toggle is that I typically would have to reboot the phone after toggling to restore a full data connection.* So, are you always having to reboot after toggling?

    *More trouble than it was worth to me because I'm addicted to 4G speed and I have 2 spare batteries, one of which is the 2750 mAh one. Battery life is a means to an end, not an end in and of itself.
  16. #16  
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    [QUOTE=FrankXS;950476]When did he tell you this?

    Yesterday at 545 central time. I think we all have patient. Irritated that she said that
  17. #17  

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    Quote Originally Posted by robrecht View Post
    No, not really, at least not for most people. My probs, which are also minimal, have never been related to that. After experimenting a few times, I never turn off 4G.

    However, if you describe your issue more fully, it could relate to your problem. One of the reasons I stopped bothering with the 4G toggle is that I typically would have to reboot the phone after toggling to restore a full data connection. More trouble than it was worth to me because I'm addicted to 4G speed and I have 2 spare batteries, one of which is the 2750 mAh one. Battery life is a means to an end, not an end in and of itself.
    I Only turned off 4G cause all the stories about battery life worried me and I don't live in or near a 4G network.

    99% of the time, I'm at home when I lose 3G signal, which I then put phone into airplane mode and then turn it off.This restores my signal. I lost it only once while at work,which is 50 miles away.
    This always seems to happen around 7:30 PM and once as early as 6:15 or so

    To the rebooting issue,It only happens once a day and I haven't paid attention to if it's always around same time frame. Yesterday it appeared to have gone through a mini reboot.it wasn't the normal full reboot with the gray HTC screen which turns to the lightening bolt screen with sounds.I only got a blank screen then the gray screen with green HTC lettering.It took approx 3-5 seconds

    Unsure if this is what you were asking for.
  18. #18  

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    In reference to the 3g/lte toggle. Is it just me or are you not able to make any phone calls when it's toggled off?
  19. Thread Author  Thread Author    #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigleftyinaz View Post
    I Only turned off 4G cause all the stories about battery life worried me and I don't live in or near a 4G network.

    99% of the time, I'm at home when I lose 3G signal, which I then put phone into airplane mode and then turn it off.This restores my signal. I lost it only once while at work,which is 50 miles away.
    This always seems to happen around 7:30 PM and once as early as 6:15 or so

    To the rebooting issue,It only happens once a day and I haven't paid attention to if it's always around same time frame. Yesterday it appeared to have gone through a mini reboot.it wasn't the normal full reboot with the gray HTC screen which turns to the lightening bolt screen with sounds.I only got a blank screen then the gray screen with green HTC lettering.It took approx 3-5 seconds

    Unsure if this is what you were asking for.
    Sounds like you're just having the same reboot problem so many others are. Not really related to your use of 3G only mode.
  20. Thread Author  Thread Author    #20  
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    Quote Originally Posted by jigz23 View Post
    In reference to the 3g/lte toggle. Is it just me or are you not able to make any phone calls when it's toggled off?
    You should definitely be able to make phone calls when you're toggled to 3G. How are you doing this exactly?
  21. #21  

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    also,Could any of this be cause if the Verizon rep dialed the update code *228.I hear this code will damage the Thunderbolt? I don't know if she did this or not.Just asking.
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    I have a question about the OTA. If I do not do the OTA for now, will I have to do it before I can get the next update that is released? Or can I go from the original software to the next update that is released without doing the OTA that has caused these problems? Thanks very much for your help.
  23. #23  
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    Quote Originally Posted by jigz23 View Post
    In reference to the 3g/lte toggle. Is it just me or are you not able to make any phone calls when it's toggled off?
    Depends on what your toggle is setting the radio setting to:

    CDMA Auto (PRL): Same as a normal 3G phone

    CDMA Only: Slow data speeds, but normal voice/text

    EV-DO Only: 3G data speeds, but possibly no voice/text

    CDMA + EV-DO/LTE Auto: Default. Uses everything.

    LTE Only. 4G data speeds. Possibly no voice/text until they roll out VoLTE

    I personally recommend using the LTE On/Off app. This way you have more control.



    On a side note, I am curious if anyone else has the same problem I have. The phone immediately reboots when booting into Safe Mode. I was attempting to boot the phone into safe mode in order to see if the rebooting was software, not firmware, related. But it immediately crashes the phone and reboots.

    Feel free to try it yourselves and see if it happens:
    1. Power off your phone.
    2. Power phone back on.
    3. When you see the "Quietly Brilliant" screen, hold down the volume DOWN rocker on the side of the phone. Keep holding it down until the phone reaches the home screen. You should see "Safe Mode" in the bottom left corner of the screen.
    Former Verizon Wireless Technical Consultant
  24. #24  

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    Chrisy said at one time she thought it was the network because of the other phones that weren't Thunderbolts that were rebooting. Well since that thread I had 2 reboots, however, they were both under the exact same conditions.

    Both times I was in a basement that struggled to get a data signal, it would go to 3G and then back to 4G and then lose signal all together and it kept doing this until finally it just restarted. As long as I have a strong data signal (which is pretty much all the time because the network here is really robust and stable) then everything is fine. My phone has only rebooted 3 times since launch day, once was that time when everyone thought it was because of the update and the other two times were after the update and under the above circumstances.
  25. #25  

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    I have only seen mine actually reboot once. But I do get a dead white screen occasionally when I swipe in from lock. Is that something others are seeing?
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