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  1. Thread Author  Thread Author    #1  

    Default Now I understand why people root their phones.... (venting here folks....)

    As a 40+ year vet of the computer industry, and a person highly exposed to computer "bloatware", I should have known this already but it never really hit home until I got my Note 3. From the early days of AOL, to having really no interest in "social media", these phone companies are taking "bloatware" to a new level. At least on computers, you could easily uninstall literally anything, including the OS. To this day, although they are sold with a lot of bloatware pre-installed, you can simply uninstall or disable it if you choose to. THAT is what I refer to as the "good old days".

    Fast forward to today with the Note 3 and the apps My Magazine and Flipboard. These poster child bloatware apps are treated like critical apps that the Android OS on the Note 3 just can't seem to do without and are therefore configured so they cannot be turned off or uninstalled by a stock user. Then I looked at the changelog for KitKat on the Note 3 and there is absolutely NOTHING in there that I consider a "necessity" other than OS bug fixes. Everything else to me that is listed (such as the preloaded apps list) adds absolutely no "value" to the Note 3 for me. But yet, Verizon and Samsung have decided that this garbage needs to be included in it's "mandatory upgrade".

    Although I have been able to configure My Magazine to not be such an "in the face" pain in the rear, and Flipboard happily living in the background, it still irks me on a daily basis that as the "owner" of this "computer", I cannot do what I want which is to get rid of those two apps along with the likes of Google+, Amazon, NFL, Blurb Checkout, ISIS, Tripadvisor, Hangouts, etc. I have absolutely no use for anything to do with "social media", will never store my credit info on a portable device, and care less about watching sports on my phone. So shouldn't I, as the purchaser of a "premium feature phone" have the option to "opt out" of this garbage? Guess not. I get my news from the internet but don't need an app for that. I keep in contact with my friends, co workers, and others via email and phone calls but I want to do it on MY time, not whenever THEY feel they need to bother me, or have it so readily available that it is easier to check my "tweets" than it is to answer the stinking phone.

    Now don't get me wrong, I understand that I am a minority in this "social media" world, but do companies like Samsung really need to make it so that the few of us left in this world that want to be "different", can't "escape"? All I want is a nice, large screen pocket computer, with email, calendar, phone, that can handle my day to day business needs and maybe a few multimedia capabilities for my free time. I didn't even have a cell/smartphone until my job required it a few years back. Heck, I don't even tolerate texting unless someone texts me first! And then I advise them to call me next time because I probably won't respond to a text message the next time. I don't need my daily Facebook fix, or have troubles making it thru my day without knowing what is "trending". The only tweeting I want is from the birds at the feeder outside. I truly miss payphones!

    I literally adore my Note 3 as a powerhouse, large screen phablet that meets my every business and daily need, other than this one MAJOR irritant. So going forward, this type of "mandatory app" loading will be a much larger deciding factor on what device I choose or don't choose. I shouldn't have to resort to rooting a phone just to get rid of a couple "non essential" apps. But if that is the way of the industry, then maybe the smartphone world is not for me after all. And after having a smartphone that can do the things I "need" it to do, going back to a flip phone now is only going to stir the resentment in me further so it isn't even a consideration at this point. I might as well go back to my pocket calendar, notepad, mp3 player, and home phone.

    So, am I delusional to expect to be able to customize MY device to meet MY needs without having to violate a warranty, TOS, or "turning to the dark side" and learn all there is to know about rooting? It appears Samsung and others are giving me few alternatives at this point.

    Sigh...........

    Have a great day!
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  2. #2  
    Darth Spock's Avatar

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    Default Re: Now I understand why people root their phones.... (venting here folks....)

    The option to disable the apps isn't there? I know a lot of preinstalled apps cannot be uninstalled without root, but on my phone (not a Samsung) you can disable them, which prevents them from running and hides them from the app drawer.
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  3. #3  
    Golfdriver97's Avatar

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    Default Re: Now I understand why people root their phones.... (venting here folks....)

    Here is a guide to help disabling apps. Like Darth said, it doesn't remove them, but it does reduce space they take up and stops them from running.
    [Guide] Disabling apps on Galaxy S3 and Tab 2...No root required

    Sent from my HTC One_M8 using AC Forums mobile app

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    Beyond Fire's Avatar

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    Default Re: Now I understand why people root their phones.... (venting here folks....)

    So you would rather go back to a flip phone then deal with some bloatware? Talk about over exaggerating. People are really blowing all this bloatware crap out of proportion. Yes unless you get a Nexus device you are going to deal with manufacturers who put their own apps, skins, services ect on their phones(which they aren't forcing you to buy in the first place). Hell even Apple has apps that cannot be removed unless jailbroken, and that's just how it is in the tech world right now. For someone who has been in the computer world for 40+ years, I'm quite surprised something like this would bother you to such an extent you would consider going back to the stone age for cell phones.
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  5. #5  

    Default Re: Now I understand why people root their phones.... (venting here folks....)

    Blujay40,

    I think we are twins!

    It is like IBM renting you a S/360 and then forcing you to get the Assembler, COBOL, RPG and PL/1 compilers even if you did not want RPG or PL/1.
    souleem and blujay40 like this.
  6. Thread Author  Thread Author    #6  

    Default Re: Now I understand why people root their phones.... (venting here folks....)

    In all my reading, and conversations with both Samsung and Verizon, there is no way to "turn off" or uninstall those two apps from the Note 3 via the OS like you can with pretty much every other preloaded app on the phone. I have been able to get My Magazine to stop opening whenever I mistakenly push the home key while already on the home page, but only after I had to accept their terms and conditions of the app and allow it to run in the background. As for flipboard, it really never appears unless you intentionally open the app, but you cannot turn it off or completely uninstall it either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Spock View Post
    The option to disable the apps isn't there? I know a lot of preinstalled apps cannot be uninstalled without root, but on my phone (not a Samsung) you can disable them, which prevents them from running and hides them from the app drawer.
  7. #7  
    Darth Spock's Avatar

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    Default Re: Now I understand why people root their phones.... (venting here folks....)

    Forwarding this issue to some nerdy folks with this device to see if they know how to help you get these off.
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  8. #8  

    Default Re: Now I understand why people root their phones.... (venting here folks....)

    Unfortunately for stock there is no way to disable certain apps like my magazine or flip board

    dpham00, Android Central Moderator
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  9. Thread Author  Thread Author    #9  

    Default Re: Now I understand why people root their phones.... (venting here folks....)

    Beyond,

    No, actually I said that going back to a flip phone would only make me even more resentful of this direction because it would be a daily reminder of why I didn't have my Note 3 any longer so that wasn't an option either. For me, the implementation of My Magazine on the Note 3 is crossing the line from simple "bloatware" to something much more troubling. And with the Kitkat update, although it included some bug fixes and OS enhancements (which is fine), it also added yet more bloatware of which none of it is of use to me.

    If ANY computer manufacturer had taken this path, it would be the last pc I would have bought from them, or recommended to any of my customers. I would go back to simply building my own and thus avoid this type of what I consider to be manufacturer overreach. It they want to include bloatware, then fine. Virtually all electronics manufacturers do that. From PC's, to mp3 players, to memory sticks, to portable hard drives and cell phones, they ALL pre load apps and software, but NONE of them except phone manufacturers have crossed "user choice" line in regards to making said software unavoidable. Heck, on a pc you can even uninstall or turn off critical functions of Windows to the point where it becomes useless, and I believe you can also do this with an Android phone's services, but not with My Magazine! So at the end of the day, I do think there should be some processes, services, or apps that should be "protected" like this to protect the end user from doing something to harm the usefulness, performance, or actual use of their devices, a social media app like My Magazine should NEVER be one of them. Samsung has chosen to all but imbed this app into the OS by linking it to the home button on the phone as well as an up swipe on the screen and removing any way to turn it off.

    You can disable the home button function by first accepting the terms and conditions of My Magazine but there is no way to disable the up swipe. But why should I have to accept the terms and conditions of an app just so I can turn off one function of it? Really? There is no way to keep the app from updating itself whenever there is an update, and although it is very minor, they still use data, cpu, and battery like the apps that I actually want to use. And as for flipboard, at least it is not that bad because other than the fact than it is always running in the background, and you can't uninstall it or turn it off, I don't know it's really there. But when you look at it in a principled sense, the fact that yet another "social media" app is designed so that it cannot be disabled or uninstalled is a direction I cannot and will never approve of. What is in store for us going forward and how many more apps will end up this way where the end user is given no choice? Will it even come to a point where these network providers won't activate any device that doesn't include their bloatware? You may think this is an over exaggeration, but to me it is a red flag and I will be inspecting any device I may want to purchase in the future much closer.

    I think it's great that you have no issues with it. For me, I can see where rooting a phone is becoming a much more viable option if this direction continues.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beyond Fire View Post
    So you would rather go back to a flip phone then deal with some bloatware? Talk about over exaggerating. People are really blowing all this bloatware crap out of proportion. Yes unless you get a Nexus device you are going to deal with manufacturers who put their own apps, skins, services ect on their phones(which they aren't forcing you to buy in the first place). Hell even Apple has apps that cannot be removed unless jailbroken, and that's just how it is in the tech world right now. For someone who has been in the computer world for 40+ years, I'm quite surprised something like this would bother you to such an extent you would consider going back to the stone age for cell phones.
    souleem likes this.
  10. Thread Author  Thread Author    #10  

    Default Re: Now I understand why people root their phones.... (venting here folks....)

    Sorry Golf,

    That doesn't work with these two apps on the Note 3, and from what I understand, on the S5. Samsung has disabled that function for these apps on the new phones.

    Quote Originally Posted by Golfdriver97 View Post
    Here is a guide to help disabling apps. Like Darth said, it doesn't remove them, but it does reduce space they take up and stops them from running.
    [Guide] Disabling apps on Galaxy S3 and Tab 2...No root required

    Sent from my HTC One_M8 using AC Forums mobile app
  11. #11  

    Default Re: Now I understand why people root their phones.... (venting here folks....)

    Blujay40, I rooted my Note 3 hours after I got it so I don't know how annoying the Magazine app is or how to get rid of it on stock. To me, rooting a phone is par for the course. I don't want certain things on my phone so I root to get rid of them. It's my personal choice.

    Yes, these devices are capable of a lot but if you want to work exactly how you want it to work you, unfortunately, have to come to the dark side. We have cookies btw

    Sent from my Resurrected T-Mobile Note 3
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  12. Thread Author  Thread Author    #12  

    Default Re: Now I understand why people root their phones.... (venting here folks....)

    Ah, a brother from another mother!!!! From mainframes (I was a Honeywell/Bull and Burroughs/Unisys man myself) to PC's, there has never been an app, compiler, or function outside the OS itself that an end user was forced to use. And you could always choose to uninstall, or avoid installing in the first place, whatever you felt was unnecessary. Guess those days are over my friend! Sigh...............

    Quote Originally Posted by IBMJunkman View Post
    Blujay40,

    I think we are twins!

    It is like IBM renting you a S/360 and then forcing you to get the Assembler, COBOL, RPG and PL/1 compilers even if you did not want RPG or PL/1.
  13. Thread Author  Thread Author    #13  

    Default Re: Now I understand why people root their phones.... (venting here folks....)

    VDub,

    Cookies you say? Aw now your not playing fair! But then again, neither is the other side. VERY TEMPTING!!!!
    VDub2174 likes this.
  14. #14  

    Default Re: Now I understand why people root their phones.... (venting here folks....)

    Quote Originally Posted by blujay40 View Post
    Beyond,

    No, actually I said that going back to a flip phone would only make me even more resentful of this direction because it would be a daily reminder of why I didn't have my Note 3 any longer so that wasn't an option either. For me, the implementation of My Magazine on the Note 3 is crossing the line from simple "bloatware" to something much more troubling. And with the Kitkat update, although it included some bug fixes and OS enhancements (which is fine), it also added yet more bloatware of which none of it is of use to me.

    If ANY computer manufacturer had taken this path, it would be the last pc I would have bought from them, or recommended to any of my customers. I would go back to simply building my own and thus avoid this type of what I consider to be manufacturer overreach. It they want to include bloatware, then fine. Virtually all electronics manufacturers do that. From PC's, to mp3 players, to memory sticks, to portable hard drives and cell phones, they ALL pre load apps and software, but NONE of them except phone manufacturers have crossed "user choice" line in regards to making said software unavoidable. Heck, on a pc you can even uninstall or turn off critical functions of Windows to the point where it becomes useless, and I believe you can also do this with an Android phone's services, but not with My Magazine! So at the end of the day, I do think there should be some processes, services, or apps that should be "protected" like this to protect the end user from doing something to harm the usefulness, performance, or actual use of their devices, a social media app like My Magazine should NEVER be one of them. Samsung has chosen to all but imbed this app into the OS by linking it to the home button on the phone as well as an up swipe on the screen and removing any way to turn it off.

    You can disable the home button function by first accepting the terms and conditions of My Magazine but there is no way to disable the up swipe. But why should I have to accept the terms and conditions of an app just so I can turn off one function of it? Really? There is no way to keep the app from updating itself whenever there is an update, and although it is very minor, they still use data, cpu, and battery like the apps that I actually want to use. And as for flipboard, at least it is not that bad because other than the fact than it is always running in the background, and you can't uninstall it or turn it off, I don't know it's really there. But when you look at it in a principled sense, the fact that yet another "social media" app is designed so that it cannot be disabled or uninstalled is a direction I cannot and will never approve of. What is in store for us going forward and how many more apps will end up this way where the end user is given no choice? Will it even come to a point where these network providers won't activate any device that doesn't include their bloatware? You may think this is an over exaggeration, but to me it is a red flag and I will be inspecting any device I may want to purchase in the future much closer.

    I think it's great that you have no issues with it. For me, I can see where rooting a phone is becoming a much more viable option if this direction continues.
    In Windows you can not just go to the Programs and Features and uninstall apps like Internet Explorer, notepad, and paint. Yes you can hack to uninstall them, same is true of Android. But you cannot easily uninstall it.

    dpham00, Android Central Moderator
    Sent from my Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note 3
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  15. #15  
    TheMacs's Avatar

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    Default Re: Now I understand why people root their phones.... (venting here folks....)

    Vdub said it... root. Cheers
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  16. Thread Author  Thread Author    #16  

    Default Re: Now I understand why people root their phones.... (venting here folks....)

    dpham00,

    To me as an experienced computer user and tech, that type of a comparison is more apples and oranges. Just because I can't simply go to Programs and Features, doesn't mean I can't "easily" uninstall, or "turn off" those programs or for that matter, virtually ANY program, app, service, or feature of a Windows based PC. because I can, and have!

    Additionally, unless it is a hard drive space issue, why do I need to get rid or uninstall Paint or Notepad type apps? They don't run unless I want them to. They don't use CPU cycles, memory, data, or bandwidth to just sit there. They are in the same category of thousands of Android apps that either come pre-installed on new phones, or that I can download and install myself. And in most cases, they just sit there until I as the end user decide to run them. My Magazine and Flipboard are NOT that way, and they were made that way intentionally by Samsung. Why? Only they can answer that and up until now, they refuse to after many calls and emails asking why. So does Samsung consider these two apps more important to the operation, functionality, or stability of the Android OS on their devices than say, Google Account Manager? The "turn off" option for that process is available to me. How about S Voice or S Translator? I can turn them off but not My Magazine? Really?

    But lets go one step further here and say you wanted to uninstall, disable, or otherwise "turn off" things like Paint or Notepad in Windows All I need are admin privileges, which are granted by default in Windows. I don't need special tools or other apps to get rid of them either. Nor do I end my warranty, violate any TOS, etc. All I need to do is change the view settings in Windows so you can see hidden system files, find the exe for that program, right click, and delete. Gone! I may need to do so either thru a command prompt or within Safe Mode, but again, I am not using anything that is not already a "feature" of the OS, nor do I incur any legal or financial risks in doing so. And other than IE, Windows will work just fine without them.

    As for IE, and unlike My Magazine and Flipboard, it now performs many critical functions within Windows other than just being a web browser as it started out to be. Are My Magazine and Flipboard headed down that same path here? I highly doubt it. But even given that IE is now a critical part of the Windows OS, I can still, using the above process, or using a boot cd "provided by Microsoft", delete IExplore.exe if I so choose. It would basically "brick" windows, but I could still do it. Would it violate my warranty? Nope. Would it violate any TOS? Nope. Could it be easily restored by either a built in feature of Windows called System Restore? Yep. If necessary, could I call the system manufacturers support line and get their help in fixing it? Yep. Do I need special programs, apps, or hacked versions of Windows to restore my PC? Nope.

    So although I could understand why critical functions of the OS should be "locked down" and made to prevent the end user from disabling them (Windows needs to do more of that in my opinion), Apple went way too far in that regard years ago, which is why I will never own an iphone, use iTunes, Quicktime, etc. Now, and regrettably, Samsung seems to want to do the same. The only reasoning that I can think of for configuring My Magazine and Flipboard this way has less to do with OS stability, security, or even functionality, and more to do with some financial incentive aspect that they refuse to admit to. And is this just the start of things to come? Is Samsung heading towards being an Apple "clone"? If so, no thanks.

    So although I really will fight the urge to start rooting my devices going forward, Samsung is not making that decision any easier for me. And besides, as VDub advised me, the "dark side" has COOKIES! :-)

    Have a great day!
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  17. #17  

    Default Re: Now I understand why people root their phones.... (venting here folks....)

    This is the main reason I root my phone. Too many preloaded apps that runs in the background and kills the battery. A good example is Blockbuster app way back in the days and it would eat up the battery for no reason. I never used it or opened it.

    Another good reason is Titanium Backup. Very powerful tool that let's you freeze apps and perform a full backup easily. Well worth the money for it.

    I rarely do ROMs because I always end up going back go stock with issues on the ROM.

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  18. #18  
    Lefty Drummer's Avatar

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    Default Re: Now I understand why people root their phones.... (venting here folks....)

    Quote Originally Posted by RHChan84 View Post
    This is the main reason I root my phone. Too many preloaded apps that runs in the background and kills the battery. A good example is Blockbuster app way back in the days and it would eat up the battery for no reason. I never used it or opened it.

    Another good reason is Titanium Backup. Very powerful tool that let's you freeze apps and perform a full backup easily. Well worth the money for it.

    I rarely do ROMs because I always end up going back go stock with issues on the ROM.

    Sent from my Droid RAZR MAXX (tapatalk)
    Agree about both root and Titanium Backup.

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  19. #19  

    Default Re: Now I understand why people root their phones.... (venting here folks....)

    Blujay40,

    Want a trip down memory lane? Check my site, My Collection of IBM Stuff The card section is up to date. The others need a lot of stuff uploaded.
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  20. Thread Author  Thread Author    #20  

    Default Re: Now I understand why people root their phones.... (venting here folks....)

    IBM,

    Just seeing the image of paper tape and punch cards will most likely give me nightmares now!!!!! I once dropped two boxes of punch cards that were sorted for that nights production run. Guess who was still "sorting" when it was time to go home? As for paper tape, when I was in the Air Force, I worked in the WWMCCS group and loaded boxes of paper tape rolls on a daily basis.

    Never had so many paper cuts as I had back then. Looked like I got into a knife fight with someone!
  21. #21  

    Default Re: Now I understand why people root their phones.... (venting here folks....)

    After dealing with samsung and t-mobile with a s3 i learned that if you want to rid yourself of bloatware and carrier/manufacturer restrictions you have to buy unlocked phones. It seems as if this is where things are trending as more and more people get fed up...
    The "infraction"
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  22. Thread Author  Thread Author    #22  

    Default Re: Now I understand why people root their phones.... (venting here folks....)

    itic,

    Thanks for the thought but I am not sure that is a solution either since it is my understanding that these two apps (My Magazine and Flipboard) are not "carrier bloatware" but rather they were included in the Android OS from Samsung themselves and after at least a couple of calls to Samsung support, they advised that there is no way to disable them or turn them off. They never asked me who my provider was or if I had an unlocked phone so that would lead one to assume that even the unlocked phones have the same configuration/issue. I also saw at least a few write-ups from others that already have unlocked Note 3's and they can't turn it off either. The only mentions I have seen that were successful were to root the phone.

    Anyone have any actual proof that My Magazine and Flipboard are implemented differently on unlocked Note 3's?

    Quote Originally Posted by itic View Post
    After dealing with samsung and t-mobile with a s3 i learned that if you want to rid yourself of bloatware and carrier/manufacturer restrictions you have to buy unlocked phones. It seems as if this is where things are trending as more and more people get fed up...
  23. #23  

    Default Re: Now I understand why people root their phones.... (venting here folks....)

    In all honesty blujay40, you should just root your Note 3. You seem like a tech savvy guy and the root process only takes minutes. After that you can get rid of those two apps that are bothering you.
    "The worst foe lies within the self....."
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  24. Thread Author  Thread Author    #24  

    Default Re: Now I understand why people root their phones.... (venting here folks....)

    Yeah, I know. And It very well might just end up that way but the fact still remains that I shouldn't have to. People before me have turned to rooting their phones in the first place for exactly this type of manufacturer "slavery" and I guess if I had been that crazy about mobile devices long ago, I would have turned before now. But if everyone stops complaining and just decides to resort to rooting, then this stuff will never end. So deciding to root or not cannot and should not stop those of us that disagree with these types of things from continuing our "rage against the machine"!

    At this point, I have "tolerating" the stock Note 3 as it is, but that could change at any moment. Besides, if I don't hurry up and jump to the dark side, there probably won't be any cookies left! :-)

    Quote Originally Posted by VDub2174 View Post
    In all honesty blujay40, you should just root your Note 3. You seem like a tech savvy guy and the root process only takes minutes. After that you can get rid of those two apps that are bothering you.
  25. #25  

    Default Re: Now I understand why people root their phones.... (venting here folks....)

    Quote Originally Posted by blujay40 View Post
    As a 40+ year vet of the computer industry, and a person highly exposed to computer "bloatware", I should have known this already but it never really hit home until I got my Note 3. From the early days of AOL, to having really no interest in "social media", these phone companies are taking "bloatware" to a new level. At least on computers, you could easily uninstall literally anything, including the OS. To this day, although they are sold with a lot of bloatware pre-installed, you can simply uninstall or disable it if you choose to. THAT is what I refer to as the "good old days".

    Fast forward to today with the Note 3 and the apps My Magazine and Flipboard. These poster child bloatware apps are treated like critical apps that the Android OS on the Note 3 just can't seem to do without and are therefore configured so they cannot be turned off or uninstalled by a stock user. Then I looked at the changelog for KitKat on the Note 3 and there is absolutely NOTHING in there that I consider a "necessity" other than OS bug fixes. Everything else to me that is listed (such as the preloaded apps list) adds absolutely no "value" to the Note 3 for me. But yet, Verizon and Samsung have decided that this garbage needs to be included in it's "mandatory upgrade".

    Although I have been able to configure My Magazine to not be such an "in the face" pain in the rear, and Flipboard happily living in the background, it still irks me on a daily basis that as the "owner" of this "computer", I cannot do what I want which is to get rid of those two apps along with the likes of Google+, Amazon, NFL, Blurb Checkout, ISIS, Tripadvisor, Hangouts, etc. I have absolutely no use for anything to do with "social media", will never store my credit info on a portable device, and care less about watching sports on my phone. So shouldn't I, as the purchaser of a "premium feature phone" have the option to "opt out" of this garbage? Guess not. I get my news from the internet but don't need an app for that. I keep in contact with my friends, co workers, and others via email and phone calls but I want to do it on MY time, not whenever THEY feel they need to bother me, or have it so readily available that it is easier to check my "tweets" than it is to answer the stinking phone.

    Now don't get me wrong, I understand that I am a minority in this "social media" world, but do companies like Samsung really need to make it so that the few of us left in this world that want to be "different", can't "escape"? All I want is a nice, large screen pocket computer, with email, calendar, phone, that can handle my day to day business needs and maybe a few multimedia capabilities for my free time. I didn't even have a cell/smartphone until my job required it a few years back. Heck, I don't even tolerate texting unless someone texts me first! And then I advise them to call me next time because I probably won't respond to a text message the next time. I don't need my daily Facebook fix, or have troubles making it thru my day without knowing what is "trending". The only tweeting I want is from the birds at the feeder outside. I truly miss payphones!

    I literally adore my Note 3 as a powerhouse, large screen phablet that meets my every business and daily need, other than this one MAJOR irritant. So going forward, this type of "mandatory app" loading will be a much larger deciding factor on what device I choose or don't choose. I shouldn't have to resort to rooting a phone just to get rid of a couple "non essential" apps. But if that is the way of the industry, then maybe the smartphone world is not for me after all. And after having a smartphone that can do the things I "need" it to do, going back to a flip phone now is only going to stir the resentment in me further so it isn't even a consideration at this point. I might as well go back to my pocket calendar, notepad, mp3 player, and home phone.

    So, am I delusional to expect to be able to customize MY device to meet MY needs without having to violate a warranty, TOS, or "turning to the dark side" and learn all there is to know about rooting? It appears Samsung and others are giving me few alternatives at this point.

    Sigh...........

    Have a great day!
    The short anser is that you *are* delusional.

    The longer answer:

    1) These are still 'phones', 'appliances', 'electronic devices', not labeled as computers hardly anywhere or by anyone. Now strictly, if a phone ran a 'desktop or workstation environment' such as real Windows or real Linux such as Ubuntu...then a case could be made in court that it should be called a computer.

    2) The fundamental design of these mobile operating systems is to use solid packages. The junk you cannot remove is a 'feature of the device', and in their esteem those features are intrinsic and inseparable. Due to the nature of the operating system, most but not all of these features will have zero impact on critical system functions. The others can usually be paralyzed in some way without removing them.

    3) Updates are labeled FIRMWARE not SOFTWARE. As in, a solid image of binary code *required* to operate an elecronic or electromechanical device. You cannot remove core apps without breaking any future updates, and you cannot exclude certain programs when accepting an update. This goes all the way back to Internet Explorer and Windows Media Player libs in Windows, wherein those were OS components and not standalone software as far as MS was concerned. See also the nightmare of interdependent package libs on Linux itself, if you add ONE use-mode program to Tiny Core it may require 20 additional packages including the full version of another program :/

    4) These are companies trying to make money. They pay to include some features, and they are paid to include some features. And at the end, some of those features become required instead of optional. This is the cost that consumers must currently bear unless they wish to reflash and venture into new territory.

    TL;DR it would be nice if Google fixed its crap and gave us a true OS that was modular and could be easily adapted to new hardware. Before x86 phones become common and run desktop grade OSes. (JK)
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