03-02-2020 12:31 AM
47 12
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  1. milleniumdroid's Avatar
    So I decided that it was a good idea to try out Android 11 in a virtualized Pixel 3a XL. Soooo of course I decided to try and get something I use heavily on a daily basis - X-Plore File Manager - to work. Normal manipulation of the internal storage works as you'd expect, but the SD card... It can see its contents, but when I try to enable it via the documents provider to modify the SD card it doesn't let me select the root of the SD card. So I try both folders that were there by default and one I made with the Files app. It told me to pick a top level folder, even though I cannot! What the ****?! Oh, and lets just say that the documents provider and files app can access/modify only select folders on the internal storage and fully access the SD card. The Files app sucks as usual and would not be an efficient way of managing files by any stretch of imagination (let alone modifying file, working with archives, etc...). This crap literally breaks my music management, document management and so on! I wish I could just go flood the Google HQ with tears. This crap doesn't enhance security in any meaningful way. It is a way of controlling users.
    02-22-2020 01:32 AM
  2. me just saying's Avatar
    you are using an operating system that is no way close to prime time. it is just a preview version that will have missing features, will have bugs, and totally not ready to install on your every day phone. IMO, there is absolutely no reason to blow a fuse because you should have known.
    02-22-2020 03:12 AM
  3. slave's Avatar
    He already blew his fuse when Jerry first brought it up.
    milleniumdroid likes this.
    02-22-2020 10:25 AM
  4. milleniumdroid's Avatar
    Well, I'm honestly hoping they fix it. But I remeber trying pre-release editions of other Android versions previous to this and I don't exactly Remer ber having any sort of dumb storage restrictions.
    02-22-2020 11:49 AM
  5. slave's Avatar
    They won't make it like you want it. You said in Jerry's article that you like to mod the software.

    That's gone. That loop is closing.

    Like we said there, if you want to mess with it, you have to make your own Android.
    Ry and kct1975 like this.
    02-22-2020 01:30 PM
  6. Kirstein Gourlay's Avatar
    Scoped storage was a nightmare in the Android 10 betas. It broke a ton of apps, not even file explorer apps but generally everything. We had to turn it off via ADB and then Google realised their implementation was so flawed they removed the feature for 10. But they did warn they were bringing it back for 11. It looks like the Dev Preview version is working like the version from last year right now. But the whole purpose of these previews and betas is for this very kind of feedback. Without all the brouhaha of last year we would have had a version that sucked in Android 10.

    So, yes, it is not ready for prime time, but it is a fair comment for Milleniumdroid to be upset at its current iteration. We can only hope that the feedback from developers at this point helps Google to sort this thing out.
    02-22-2020 07:39 PM
  7. milleniumdroid's Avatar
    Scoped storage was a nightmare in the Android 10 betas. It broke a ton of apps, not even file explorer apps but generally everything. We had to turn it off via ADB and then Google realised their implementation was so flawed they removed the feature for 10. But they did warn they were bringing it back for 11. It looks like the Dev Preview version is working like the version from last year right now. But the whole purpose of these previews and betas is for this very kind of feedback. Without all the brouhaha of last year we would have had a version that sucked in Android 10.

    So, yes, it is not ready for prime time, but it is a fair comment for Milleniumdroid to be upset at its current iteration. We can only hope that the feedback from developers at this point helps Google to sort this thing out.
    Thanks for actually agreeing with me! I mean there is no reason to take away existing freedoms. The whole point of Android is freedom. But I guess Google is gonna leas us into a very locked down world. I've come to terms with not using root and custom ROMs anymore, but without proper filesystem control like on Pie and below, Android is literally not much more than souped up and restricted Java phone... I have grown addicted to the freedoms of Android over the last several(have been using it since I was 12 years old, now I'm almost 20).

    Now the craziest thing that happened was a recent fight I had with John Wu, the creator of the Magisk root tool (don't worry, I deleted the tweets due to the level of embarassing crapshow I made in that moment of anger). He's been actively PROMOTING scoped storage like crazy on Twitter. So I start getting a bit angry at him. He of course pours oil on the fire by telling me apps should be "heavily sandboxed". I then go postal accusing him of being paid by Google to do this. Result? HE CONFESSED TO THE FACT THAT HE WILL SOON BE WORKING FOR APPLE! So the situation is gazillion times WORSE than I thought. Also, he had the nerve to tell me that I should root my phone if I want a feature that was BY DEFAULT included in older versions of Android! Anything to promote his rooting software. Sorry, but I am not gonna risk losing a warranty over that BS (and last time I tried to use Magisk it threw my tablet into a bootloop among other things).

    One thing that I hope is possible, and maybe someone here who has dev experience can confirm, is the possibility of flashing a treble GSI image of Pie onto a device that shipped with Q or R. If this is possible and doesn't put you at any significant risk of not being able to make emergency calls or stuff like that, it might be possible to save ourselves from scoped storage.

    In short, Google is copying Apple and trying to make me use THEIR Services and everything. BULLCRAP. I will get my media and software from sources that I want, and will not give a God forsaken cent to Google (I never have given them a cent yet anyway). I love Android but when somebody tells me that I can't do se thing basic and productive on my phone, like free file management, I get very upset.

    Sorry if I don't seem like my normal happy and helpful self, but I am writing this while suffering from a bit of depression (which is caused by a ton more than this topic).
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    02-22-2020 08:55 PM
  8. me just saying's Avatar
    there may be freedom issues but there are also third party apps that takes advantage of your files. everyone is complaining they are giving unnecessary permissions to app developers. it seems they want access to everything on your phone just so you can play tic tac toe. Now Google is trying to do something about it and everyone is complaining that google is locking everything up. In this case, it is going to be a no win for google no matter what they do. google made a couple of compromises so far. one having to do with file managers and the other delaying it to android 11. they could have started this in android 10 but they delayed it because of the backlash. doubt they will delay it again.
    TgeekB likes this.
    02-22-2020 10:31 PM
  9. milleniumdroid's Avatar
    there may be freedom issues but there are also third party apps that takes advantage of your files. everyone is complaining they are giving unnecessary permissions to app developers. it seems they want access to everything on your phone just so you can play tic tac toe. Now Google is trying to do something about it and everyone is complaining that google is locking everything up. In this case, it is going to be a no win for google no matter what they do. google made a couple of compromises so far. one having to do with file managers and the other delaying it to android 11. they could have started this in android 10 but they delayed it because of the backlash. doubt they will delay it again.
    Why don't they purge the crapware
    (i.e. CHEETAH MOBILE products) from Google Play
    kct1975 and Laura Knotek like this.
    02-22-2020 10:41 PM
  10. me just saying's Avatar
    Why don't they purge the crapware l
    (i.e. CHEETAH MOBILE products) from Google Play
    actually they recently got rid of around 45 of cheetah mobile apps though for other reasons. it was in the news a couple of days ago. unfortunately they are not the only ones causing issues. removing apps from the play store will not solve the problem especially since so many are downloaded from third parties.
    milleniumdroid likes this.
    02-22-2020 11:14 PM
  11. milleniumdroid's Avatar
    actually they recently got rid of around 45 of cheetah mobile apps though for other reasons. it was in the news a couple of days ago. unfortunately they are not the only ones causing issues. removing apps from the play store will not solve the problem especially since so many are downloaded from third parties.
    I know about the 45 app purge, but if users are downloading crapware from APK sitws then it is their fault and Google should not lock down the OS. Windows (the desktop version, not the locked down phone version) let's you get admin permission and everything and it is on the user to protect their PC and keep their data safe. Microsoft doesn't see free file access as dangerous. The same should be for phones. And heck, a bad app cannot even theoretically damage your install of Android. If your data gets stolen by some fake crapware you downloaded from a bad website, it's your fault and you deal with it instead of calling Android insecure. I personally believe that this scoped storage crap is the precursor of some really nasty stuff that is yet to come and will shatter life as we know it.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    02-23-2020 12:05 AM
  12. TgeekB's Avatar
    Someone likes to use the word crap a lot.
    milleniumdroid likes this.
    02-23-2020 01:37 AM
  13. milleniumdroid's Avatar
    Someone likes to use the word crap a lot.
    Well I am way too nice to use real swear words... I don't know how else to express just how annoyed I am. But now that I've calmed down, I believe public outcry a la Windows Vista will happen when users start experiencing issues on their own phones. And to top things off there are a bunch of devs on Android's issue tracker RAGING how this is too quick of a change. To ad to that, there will probably be some workaround like using a special driver (i.e. USB devices X-Plore has an option to use its own driver, which saved me back in the KitKat days when I was using an external HDD).
    02-23-2020 02:37 PM
  14. milleniumdroid's Avatar
    @Kirstein Gourlay @me just saying if you thought I am the only one crying, you are sadly mistaken. There is MAJOR rage by devs on the Android issue tracker!
    02-23-2020 02:49 PM
  15. me just saying's Avatar
    Well I am way too nice to use real swear words... I don't know how else to express just how annoyed I am. But now that I've calmed down, I believe public outcry a la Windows Vista will happen when users start experiencing issues on their own phones. And to top things off there are a bunch of devs on Android's issue tracker RAGING how this is too quick of a change. To ad to that, there will probably be some workaround like using a special driver (i.e. USB devices X-Plore has an option to use its own driver, which saved me back in the KitKat days when I was using an external HDD).
    but I never had a problem with vista. I always thought vista was only released to prepared users for win7 otherwise win7 would have been the bad os. the same with android 11. I am almost willing to bet that google will be watching how users use the scoped storage and make friendlier changes for android 12. as I mentioned in a previous post, they already made one compromise for those using third party file managers. who is to say they will not make more compromises based on usage and outrage. just be sure to give feedback to google.
    TgeekB and milleniumdroid like this.
    02-23-2020 02:52 PM
  16. milleniumdroid's Avatar
    but I never had a problem with vista. I always thought vista was only released to prepared users for win7 otherwise win7 would have been the bad os. the same with android 11. I am almost willing to bet that google will be watching how users use the scoped storage and make friendlier changes for android 12. as I mentioned in a previous post, they already made one compromise for those using third party file managers. who is to say they will not make more compromises based on usage and outrage. just be sure to give feedback to google.
    I just hope they fix it. And the Vista situation I mentioned didn't happen to everyone but it was more of a problem on older computers that people were too cheap to upgrade. ~10% of users are power user geeks like me, last time I checked, so I hope Google listens to us.
    02-23-2020 03:06 PM
  17. Rukbat's Avatar
    Well, I'm honestly hoping they fix it.
    You did send feedback, right? (That's the whole idea of a beta version - to get feedback from people using it, to see if there are any problems left. No development team can bang on every single function, even in something a lot smaller than Android.)
    02-23-2020 03:33 PM
  18. milleniumdroid's Avatar
    You did send feedback, right? (That's the whole idea of a beta version - to get feedback from people using it, to see if there are any problems left. No development team can bang on every single function, even in something a lot smaller than Android.)
    How the do I send feedback that actually gets looked at by a human and get me a response? I don't have the permission to post stuff on the issue tracker due to not being a dev, and there is no way to directly contact an actual HUMAN at Google. All I wanna do is have a peaceful correspondence on the matter with someone who is directly involved in making these decisions.
    02-23-2020 03:37 PM
  19. me just saying's Avatar
    How the do I send feedback that actually gets looked at by a human and get me a response? I don't have the permission to post stuff on the issue tracker due to not being a dev, and there is no way to directly contact an actual HUMAN at Google. All I wanna do is have a peaceful correspondence on the matter with someone who is directly involved in making these decisions.
    just found out the android 11 release was for developers only. so at this point, all you can do is grin and bare it :-(
    milleniumdroid and kct1975 like this.
    02-23-2020 03:53 PM
  20. TgeekB's Avatar
    Well I am way too nice to use real swear words... I don't know how else to express just how annoyed I am. But now that I've calmed down, I believe public outcry a la Windows Vista will happen when users start experiencing issues on their own phones. And to top things off there are a bunch of devs on Android's issue tracker RAGING how this is too quick of a change. To ad to that, there will probably be some workaround like using a special driver (i.e. USB devices X-Plore has an option to use its own driver, which saved me back in the KitKat days when I was using an external HDD).
    Google has to do something and we don’t know the final outcome yet. As other have said, they will elicit feedback and adjust accordingly. You even admit you are in the minority and they need to satisfy the majority. Nothing to get overly emotional about.
    02-23-2020 03:59 PM
  21. milleniumdroid's Avatar
    Google has to do something and we don’t know the final outcome yet. As other have said, they will elicit feedback and adjust accordingly. You even admit you are in the minority and they need to satisfy the majority. Nothing to get overly emotional about.
    Agreed. And on the other hand power users aren't the only ones who like free file management. Even regular users that like to manage a normal media library need storage freedom (source: I've seen many regular users manage files on their devices).
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    02-23-2020 04:19 PM
  22. Golfdriver97's Avatar
    I kind of like the fact that Google is closing the loop for developers to add unnecessary app permissions. Like stated earlier, a tic tac toe game doesn't need all permissions in the book to run.
    Laura Knotek and TgeekB like this.
    02-23-2020 04:24 PM
  23. Mike Dee's Avatar
    Agreed. And on the other hand power users aren't the only ones who like free file management. Even regular users that like to manage a normal media library need storage freedom (source: I've seen many regular users manage files on their devices).
    On the other hand "Power user" is a distinguishing term in that it seperates someone from an "average user". As a result it means different things in different situations so it's objectively meanless.
    TgeekB likes this.
    02-23-2020 04:36 PM
  24. milleniumdroid's Avatar
    I kind of like the fact that Google is closing the loop for developers to add unnecessary app permissions. Like stated earlier, a tic tac toe game doesn't need all permissions in the book to run.
    Such games should not even be allowed on Google Play in the first place, simple solution. Each and every app should be vetted by a HUMAN before it goes on Google Play.
    02-23-2020 04:38 PM
  25. me just saying's Avatar
    Such games should not even be allowed on Google Play in the first place, simple solution. Each and every app should be vetted by a HUMAN before it goes on Google Play.
    the problem is, a lot of apps play nicr until a few updates later or until sold. I am not sure humans could handle each and every app and their updates. also don't forget, a lot of apps are installed from third party stores. you sure don't want google to move towards using some sort of uefi.
    02-23-2020 04:45 PM
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