L may fix KitKat SD Card Debacle

[BlueAlchemy17]

Originally Posted by Whyareallthegoodnamestaken<br />
A new permission would be nice. But even if we get that I think other OEM's should follow HTC's example and provide their own file manager.<br />
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Posted via the Android Central App

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A native file manager is exceptionally useful and prevents the situation from being intolerable, but it doesn't answer all issues. I can't rename files in MX Player Pro any more, for instance. I have to shell out to the File Explorer and do it. I've refrained from upgrading my tablet OS for that reason. Other apps have similar issues.<br />
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Samsung has had a native file manager from and before the day KK was released. As I recall, when KK came out, HTC users were tearing their hair out. I'm glad HTC caught up. Or, so I understand it. <br/>

I can gladly say, as someone who just migrated from Samsung to HTC. I am immensely grateful that HTC came out with a file manager. It's not as reliable as Samsung My Files and personally a little too simplistic and limited for my liking. I prefer Astro Pro, at least that could do BT file transfers. Not to mention I can't tell you how many times HTC File Manager has told me that it can't move this file or that file. I've just thrown my hands up and decided to plug my phone into my laptop via USB and move files with my computer (Windows/LinuxMint), so much easier and has way more functionality than any file manager on Android, 3rd party or otherwise. But I have told HTC tech support how thankful I am that they did come out with a file manager.

 

[Miguel Soares]

omg!! i hope they fix this!

Google had a cerebral stroke when they thought tthey could just prevent thousands and thousands of users from using their external sd cards!

just need to know if my asus transformer pad (tf103C) can update to lollipop! is there any info on this?
i need this fix as i CANT edit my office files and save them on my EXPENSIVE 64GB MicroSD card.

 

[benhaube]

Never been really concerned about the SD cards. I have 1 TB of storage on Google drive that's bigger than any SD card.

 

[colyn1353]

I don't understand why so many can't figure out how to install apps onto the SD card but then I have used Linux since the 90's..
When my daughter got her S5 with KitKat I was able to install apps to the card. You just have to assign permission to folders. I was even able to easily create folders to save images in from various camera apps in order to keep them separate as well as a folder to store documents in.
This change gave more security to your phone since it did not allow apps to write all over your card. An app will now only write to folders specifically assigned to it..
I think too many are set in a Windows frame of mind which is far different than Linux..

 

[CKR83]

Never been really concerned about the SD cards. I have 1 TB of storage on Google drive that's bigger than any SD card.

How well does that work for you without net connectivity? How about if you want a movie or two on your device while you travel?

The question isn't about you paying for a TB of cloud -- which only some of us find useful -- the question is if Android L fixes the cripplware that is Kitkat, and I STILL haven't seen that answered.

Yesterday, AT&T screwed me by forcing KitKat onto a perfectly working Note 8. Now I have tons of Apps that don't work, hundreds of playlists that were wiped and a lot of encrypted data that I can't get to -- ALL because I DARED to use an SD card instead of the cloud.

So the question remains: Did L correct the problem that google screwed us with or not?

 

[Miguel Soares]

How well does that work for you without net connectivity? How about if you want a movie or two on your device while you travel?

The question isn't about you paying for a TB of cloud -- which only some of us find useful -- the question is if Android L fixes the cripplware that is Kitkat, and I STILL haven't seen that answered.

Yesterday, AT&T screwed me by forcing KitKat onto a perfectly working Note 8. Now I have tons of Apps that don't work, hundreds of playlists that were wiped and a lot of encrypted data that I can't get to -- ALL because I DARED to use an SD card instead of the cloud.

So the question remains: Did L correct the problem that google screwed us with or not?

Yeah many people forget they need internet to access these clouds of info and they forget internet is not a given asset everywhere we go.
people can have all info in the world on clouds... but its useless without net connection. its a major flaw!

i want my asus transformer tablet to let legit apps to save stuff on my microSD card. its my stuff. my money!
i have the right to chose! but... no.... google just went ape and blocked all apps from writing on sd cards!

 

[DJCBS]

I don't understand why so many can't figure out how to install apps onto the SD card but then I have used Linux since the 90's..
When my daughter got her S5 with KitKat I was able to install apps to the card. You just have to assign permission to folders. I was even able to easily create folders to save images in from various camera apps in order to keep them separate as well as a folder to store documents in.
This change gave more security to your phone since it did not allow apps to write all over your card. An app will now only write to folders specifically assigned to it..
I think too many are set in a Windows frame of mind which is far different than Linux..

Yes. And most of us, regular users, don't have a clue how to do ANY of what you just described. It's very simple: things were working before. Google messed them up. Google has to solve the problem. Or, of course, be left with the stigma of effing up something that even Windows Phone can do properly. Out of those 80% of cellphone users on Android, if 5% knows how to do that, it will be a lot already.

Yeah many people forget they need internet to access these clouds of info and they forget internet is not a given asset everywhere we go.
people can have all info in the world on clouds... but its useless without net connection. its a major flaw!

i want my asus transformer tablet to let legit apps to save stuff on my microSD card. its my stuff. my money!
i have the right to chose! but... no.... google just went ape and blocked all apps from writing on sd cards!

Oh and to add to that, don't forget...what about apps? Yeah. Let me know when you can run apps from the Cloud, will you?
The cloud excuse is the same lame excuse I've heard for NOT putting SD cards on phones. "Oh, you have X gb of cloud storage". Yeah. Great. Awesome. Can I install and run games on and from OneDrive/GoogleDrive/ DropBox etc? No, I can't. And since I can't, there goes the excuse.

 

[colyn1353]

Yes. And most of us, regular users, don't have a clue how to do ANY of what you just described.

Are you saying nobody except for me knows how to use settings? Many use iPhone because there are no settings to speak of in order to tweak their system..

It's very simple: things were working before. Google messed them up. Google has to solve the problem.

Actually Google did everybody a favor by closing up security holes. Before, apps could write all over your SD card and in the process install malware. I prefer to save apps to internal memory except for a couple of photo apps and save my images to the card. Google may or may not make changes with Android 5 in order to make it more user friendly to those who don't know how to setup their phone. As for myself I prefer security over iPhone like setup.

One other thing you can do if you are using a Samsung is to install Kies. From there you can create custom folders and add music, images, ringtones, etc and access them from your phone so I am not restricted by what Google did with Kitkat.

Oh and to add to that, don't forget...what about apps? Yeah. Let me know when you can run apps from the Cloud, will you?
The cloud excuse is the same lame excuse I've heard for NOT putting SD cards on phones. "Oh, you have X gb of cloud storage". Yeah. Great. Awesome. Can I install and run games on and from OneDrive/GoogleDrive/ DropBox etc? No, I can't. And since I can't, there goes the excuse.

I only use the cloud for backups and music. I don't care to run apps or play games etc from it..but I can and do stream music from the cloud..

 

[Tmel14]

Any idea when we'll find out if Android L fixes this issue? Only just got my Xperia and the majority of the 16GB internal storage is pretty much used up

 

[thatguy97]

Any idea when we'll find out if Android L fixes this issue? Only just got my Xperia and the majority of the 16GB internal storage is pretty much used up

That's not a bug it's a just the space the ROM takes up

Posted via Nexus 7 2013 or verizon Galaxy S5 or maybe one day through my moto 360

 

[xperia2995]

I dont know why people keep saying "Apps can now write only to their specefic folders".
It is true for SD cards. App data resides in Android/data
But apps still write freely into the internal memory. A large amount of junk folders are left behind in the internal memory when an app is deleted.
Malware doesnt need an SD to run, It can attain more than enough data from your internal memory. (Where ONLY the Android/data folder in internal memory is unavailable).
So it was not a "security hole" fix for chirssake.!!

I dont care now, I am fully rooted and run a custom rom. Supersu keeps everything in line. And whenever I want I can fully unroot.

I seriously doubt android L will fix this.
From googles perspective that would be moving backwards.. Which they would never do.

 

[monsieurms]

I dont know why people keep saying "Apps can now write only to their specefic folders".
It is true for SD cards. App data resides in Android/data
But apps still write freely into the internal memory..

Yes, no doubt I'm missing something that perhaps someone else can explain, but I've never understood how security is improved by not allowing the app to write to a card, but it can still go ahead and write to the internal memory. Isn't that the same security issue? Or, are there special restrictions on internal memory that we don't know about or understand?

 

[Carrtman]

I'm so annoyed hearing about that cloud stuff:
1. privacy + cloud = no go I wouldn't trust companies (especially big ones), when it comes down to my stuff.
2. 24/7 connection even if possible is not my thing, I'd like to keep things local and out of the www (especially private pictures, videos and sensible data such as calendars).
3. I've needed an XDA fix in order to fix that damn KitKat mess on my Transformer tablet. Glad filemanagers like TC and Root Explorer also helped out

Giving folders permissions is not that hard see https://stackoverflow.com/questions/14797746/android-read-write-permission-of-a-folder but it should be something that's auto allowed for secure apps.

So far I think Lollipop will bea nice improvement but the first thing I'm gong to do is change the colors to a more professional dark theme and of course getting rid of all the needless animations, they are nice at first but personally I want to get things done not watch beautiful animations all day, tablets, smartphones aren't toys at least the Blackberry and Android ones aren't

 

[Peter Nowell]

I am sorry if I am asking a question in the wrong place. I have KitKat 4.4.4which has disabled most of my ability to transfer to the SD card and keeps loading apps into my already clogged skimpy 9GB given me after the Samsung S5 apps that came with the phone.
Is there any light regaring the ability to move apps to the sd card and free up space in internal storage either now or with Lollipop?
If not I am off to see Cortana.
Thank you
Peter

 

[monsieurms]

I am sorry if I am asking a question in the wrong place. I have KitKat 4.4.4which has disabled most of my ability to transfer to the SD card and keeps loading apps into my already clogged skimpy 9GB given me after the Samsung S5 apps that came with the phone.
Is there any light regaring the ability to move apps to the sd card and free up space in internal storage either now or with Lollipop?
If not I am off to see Cortana.
Thank you
Peter

If you go to the Application Manager (in Settings) and click on the Applications you've downloaded that you want to move (sometimes sorting them out by size can help that decision!), it should tell you when tap on each app one at a time which can be moved and which can't. Many can of downloaded apps (i.e, not system apps.) For instance, Amazon Kindle if you have a lot of books can be a hog. It comes with an active (rather than grayed out) button "move to SD card." In my experience, btw, it still leaves a significant footprint in internal memory, but most of it gets moved and there is a significant benefit if space is a concern. It is not always Google's or Samsung's decision--sometimes it is the app manufacturer.

I'm told that rooting and what not can fix this too--but I don't get into the unofficial solutions.

You might also consider trading up to something like the Note 4, which comes with 32gb internal storage instead of 16.

 

[colyn1353]

Yes, no doubt I'm missing something that perhaps someone else can explain, but I've never understood how security is improved by not allowing the app to write to a card, but it can still go ahead and write to the internal memory. Isn't that the same security issue? Or, are there special restrictions on internal memory that we don't know about or understand?

Android went from Windows permissions to Linux permissions. With that change apps can now only write to the folders they own which helps to secure your phone. Before they could write all over your internal memory as well as SD card..

However you can create folders on the SD card and move files to them. You can also move some apps to the SD card regardless what some claim..

 

[RustyMunkey]

Android went from Windows permissions to Linux permissions. With that change apps can now only write to the folders they own which helps to secure your phone. Before they could write all over your internal memory as well as SD card..

However you can create folders on the SD card and move files to them. You can also move some apps to the SD card regardless what some claim..

The difference is that on Linux, users can edit permissions, whereas on Android users have to root their devices to do so, and that's not something that the average user will do.

From my perspective, worst part of this is that the files that kit kat allows an app to create no the SD card are only accessible by that specific app. For instance, if I use MediaMonkey to sync 30GB of music to my phone's SD card, then that content is available for playback/editing only by MediaMonkey, when most users actually want it to be accessible/editable by Winamp, Power Amp, etc. Similarly, users want photos and movies that are copied to the external SD card to be accessible/editable by a variety of apps. Even worse, the content is all uninstalled when MediaMonkey is uninstalled.

What would go a long way towards solving this is to have a few directories (e.g. Music, Photos, Movies, etc.) that can give applications permission to read/write/edit them so that all music apps can share content that's on the SD card (in the same way that multiple apps can read/write/edit such directories on internal memory).

afaik, Android L partially solves some of these issues (see android dev docs re getExternalMediaDirs() -- the forum doesn't let me post the link ) by allowing the content in an app's SD card directory to be shared, but unfortunately, afaik deleting the app will also result in the deletion of all of the content it created :-(

-Rusty

note: I work on MediaMonkey (not a dev).

 

[xperia2995]

Android went from Windows permissions to Linux permissions. With that change apps can now only write to the folders they own which helps to secure your phone. Before they could write all over your internal memory as well as SD card..

However you can create folders on the SD card and move files to them. You can also move some apps to the SD card regardless what some claim..

Linux style makes no difference.
In both cases an app can do what it wishes if a user gives it a permission.

I suspect this was a patch up scheme after thousands of Ukrainians downloaded a shadowy app (Outside of play store). The app encrypted their data and asked for ransom. "Hah doesn't happen in apple," some said.

If Lollipop offers no fix, root ur phone.
All those who rooted. You can download 'Xposed' module. It gives all apps full SD access like before.
I don't know why people fear rooting. Its completely reversible. A superuser (SuperSU) app completely safeguards the root users.

 

[monsieurms]

L
I don't know why people fear rooting. Its completely reversible.

It's effort. It is a process that can brick your phone if you err.

Here's a recent tale:

http://forums.androidcentral.com/samsung-galaxy-note-4/453034-rooted-note-4-now-i-have-brick.html

And it voids the warranty.

In return for the effort and risk, the benefits from it are considered very minor to some, like me.

 

[SAGAcademy]

if this happens then no need to root our android device to fix the sd card.