1. eric002's Avatar
    For the past few months, I have kept ambient display off because it doesn't always work when I want it to work. I just hit the power/lock button to highlight the screen but that is lighting up the entire screen. I wonder if I'd save a little bit more battery power by forcing myself to try and use the ambient display feature out moreso. Do you use ambient display? Thanks for any suggestions.
    02-13-2017 09:44 AM
  2. B. Diddy's Avatar
    If you're only checking the screen for a few seconds at a time, I wouldn't think that it has a big impact. Ambient Display might also lead to more inadvertent screen activations, which might make it a wash anyway.

    I also wonder if Ambient Display can impact the ability for the phone to Doze for a prolonged period. I found this, but don't completely understand the implications: https://plus.google.com/101762680521...ts/buocHNJqjmb
    02-13-2017 10:21 AM
  3. eric002's Avatar
    Good point. I'll try toggling it off again.
    02-13-2017 10:39 AM
  4. nomzamo999's Avatar
    Ambient Display worked very nicely for me in 7.0, but since the update to 7.1.1, it's been broken. Now the screen wakes up every few seconds when I have emails, not just when a new message arrives. At night the phone just keeps flashing. Non stop.
    02-13-2017 11:56 AM
  5. eric002's Avatar
    Ambient Display worked very nicely for me in 7.0, but since the update to 7.1.1, it's been broken. Now the screen wakes up every few seconds when I have emails, not just when a new message arrives. At night the phone just keeps flashing. Non stop.
    I agree with you. I tried using ambient display again this morning, and called Google just to confirm that using ambient display will cancel out extreme doze which requires the screen to be off in order to work properly. I love extreme doze more than ambient display. Besides I have lite flow for different color and frequency notifications.
    02-13-2017 12:19 PM
  6. badcat's Avatar
    If you're only checking the screen for a few seconds at a time, I wouldn't think that it has a big impact. Ambient Display might also lead to more inadvertent screen activations, which might make it a wash anyway.[/url]
    I've seen this on two different phones. I ride a motorcycle and usually keep my phone in a tank bag while riding. I've noticed that I experienced more battery drain than usual while riding due to what I surmise is the display coming on a lot due to the extra movement and jostling. I have also seen this in my car while the phone sits in a car mount as well.
    B. Diddy likes this.
    02-14-2017 06:46 AM
  7. LeoRex's Avatar
    I found this, but don't completely understand the implications: https://plus.google.com/101762680521...ts/buocHNJqjmb
    That is a modified version of AD that some custom ROMs used (SAOSP is one of those custom ROMs)... devs have been fussing with things to give more granular controls over the function. Doze is part of core Android source, so for enthusiasts, it's open game. OEMs, on the other hand, are barred from screwing with Doze as part of the Google Play Services licensing agreements. The stock version of Doze still only cares about significant motion of the device, which on many phones is farmed off to a low-power sensor cluster (i.e. it uses next to no power to function).

    So 'full' or 'extreme' Doze isn't in the cards if the phone is in your pocket, for instance. That mode is still intended to fire only when the phone is left, undisturbed, for extended periods of time. In your pocket, even shifting in your seat may be considering 'significant motion'... and while AD won't fire because the proximity sensor is triggered, it will cause Doze to wake up a bit to see what's going on.

    Now, if the phone is in your pocket and you've become one with your chair or couch to the point where the point doesn't detect any movement for the hour that it requires, yes, full Doze will still fire... but you might be dead at that point, so it's moot.

    Left to its own devices, AD doesn't use much power when sitting there, idle. It won't interfere with Doze in any way shape or form since the sensors that it relies on are active even when Doze is in its deepest sleep. Like I mentioned before, Doze uses the same sensors AD uses, so if you see AD fire, Doze has already detected significant motion and woke up the phone (i.e. AD isn't waking the phone, the phone's motion is).
    B. Diddy likes this.
    02-14-2017 09:51 AM
  8. eric002's Avatar
    That is a modified version of AD that some custom ROMs used (SAOSP is one of those custom ROMs)... devs have been fussing with things to give more granular controls over the function. Doze is part of core Android source, so for enthusiasts, it's open game. OEMs, on the other hand, are barred from screwing with Doze as part of the Google Play Services licensing agreements. The stock version of Doze still only cares about significant motion of the device, which on many phones is farmed off to a low-power sensor cluster (i.e. it uses next to no power to function).

    So 'full' or 'extreme' Doze isn't in the cards if the phone is in your pocket, for instance. That mode is still intended to fire only when the phone is left, undisturbed, for extended periods of time. In your pocket, even shifting in your seat may be considering 'significant motion'... and while AD won't fire because the proximity sensor is triggered, it will cause Doze to wake up a bit to see what's going on.

    Now, if the phone is in your pocket and you've become one with your chair or couch to the point where the point doesn't detect any movement for the hour that it requires, yes, full Doze will still fire... but you might be dead at that point, so it's moot.

    Left to its own devices, AD doesn't use much power when sitting there, idle. It won't interfere with Doze in any way shape or form since the sensors that it relies on are active even when Doze is in its deepest sleep. Like I mentioned before, Doze uses the same sensors AD uses, so if you see AD fire, Doze has already detected significant motion and woke up the phone (i.e. AD isn't waking the phone, the phone's motion is).
    Yeah I don't completely understand that either. It's a bit confusing to me as well.
    02-14-2017 10:01 AM
  9. B. Diddy's Avatar
    Now, if the phone is in your pocket and you've become one with your chair or couch to the point where the point doesn't detect any movement for the hour that it requires, yes, full Doze will still fire... but you might be dead at that point, so it's moot.
    LOL
    eric002 likes this.
    02-14-2017 10:13 AM
  10. LeoRex's Avatar
    Yeah I don't completely understand that either. It's a bit confusing to me as well.
    I don't want to derail the thread, so I'll try my best to keep this to the point....

    Doze is actually pretty simple.. the programming of it is pretty complicated, but it's a simple concept. Google wanted to reduce the amount of power phones use, in particular when they are just sitting there on your desk, doing nothing... Doze is that feature. Think of Doze like those motion sensors you have in an office building. If someone is in there, walking around, they flick the lights on. But if they don't detect any motion, they start a timer.... if, after that timer expires, there's STILL no motion, it'll turn off the lights.

    Now, apps and services need to 'wake' the phone up to do their thing, that is to say they have to bring the processing up from a 'deep sleep' state, which is a low power state where there aren't many functions that are active. Waking the phone up uses more power, of course, and the more a phone is kept awake, the more power it uses. There used to be few controls over when an app could wake the phone, and many apps abused the privilege (*cough*facebook*cough*) and batteries cried in pain the world over.

    Now, once Doze is running, it limits when an app or function can wake the phone, forcing them to use short maintenance windows that it opens up periodically and allows everyone to go out and do their thing, then puts the phone back to sleep. The longer the phone is idle, the farther apart those maintenance windows are.

    BUT.... here's where motion comes into play... If the phone detects 'significant motion', which is an actual term in Android. It means "any motion that could lead to a change in the user's location".... but this is as minor as you picking up the phone off a desk and looking at the screen. If the phone detects that motion, Doze starts to dial itself back. In 6.0, Doze was either on full blast or not at all. In 7.0, they added a 'light' Doze mode that wasn't as fussy with motion, had maintenance windows that were much closer together and enabled itself much sooner after you turned off the screen.

    Now... Ambient Display is in the mix here... since it too uses significant motion. But Ambient Display doesn't directly wake the phone when it fires... here's the sequence of events:

    1) Phone is asleep in full Doze
    2) Phone is lifted, significant motion detector is triggered
    3) Phone wakes
    4) AD, having detected that the sig. motion detector was triggers, checks if the proximity detector is covered. If it is not covered, it lights up the screen and displays the clock and any current notifications
    5) User puts phone back down, Ambient Display times out (usually 5 seconds)
    6) Doze sees that the phone's significant motion detector is no longer triggered and begins its counter... 'light' Doze kicks in.... I think about 5 minutes after you turn off the screen, and full Doze takes up to an hour I think to fully engage.

    So.... VERY long story short... Ambient Display, at least in how Google implemented it on the 6P, has little to no effect on battery life because it is not actually waking up the phone... the phone woke up by you picking it up off the desk.
    02-14-2017 12:03 PM
  11. eric002's Avatar
    I don't want to derail the thread, so I'll try my best to keep this to the point....

    Doze is actually pretty simple.. the programming of it is pretty complicated, but it's a simple concept. Google wanted to reduce the amount of power phones use, in particular when they are just sitting there on your desk, doing nothing... Doze is that feature. Think of Doze like those motion sensors you have in an office building. If someone is in there, walking around, they flick the lights on. But if they don't detect any motion, they start a timer.... if, after that timer expires, there's STILL no motion, it'll turn off the lights.

    Now, apps and services need to 'wake' the phone up to do their thing, that is to say they have to bring the processing up from a 'deep sleep' state, which is a low power state where there aren't many functions that are active. Waking the phone up uses more power, of course, and the more a phone is kept awake, the more power it uses. There used to be few controls over when an app could wake the phone, and many apps abused the privilege (*cough*facebook*cough*) and batteries cried in pain the world over.

    Now, once Doze is running, it limits when an app or function can wake the phone, forcing them to use short maintenance windows that it opens up periodically and allows everyone to go out and do their thing, then puts the phone back to sleep. The longer the phone is idle, the farther apart those maintenance windows are.

    BUT.... here's where motion comes into play... If the phone detects 'significant motion', which is an actual term in Android. It means "any motion that could lead to a change in the user's location".... but this is as minor as you picking up the phone off a desk and looking at the screen. If the phone detects that motion, Doze starts to dial itself back. In 6.0, Doze was either on full blast or not at all. In 7.0, they added a 'light' Doze mode that wasn't as fussy with motion, had maintenance windows that were much closer together and enabled itself much sooner after you turned off the screen.

    Now... Ambient Display is in the mix here... since it too uses significant motion. But Ambient Display doesn't directly wake the phone when it fires... here's the sequence of events:

    1) Phone is asleep in full Doze
    2) Phone is lifted, significant motion detector is triggered
    3) Phone wakes
    4) AD, having detected that the sig. motion detector was triggers, checks if the proximity detector is covered. If it is not covered, it lights up the screen and displays the clock and any current notifications
    5) User puts phone back down, Ambient Display times out (usually 5 seconds)
    6) Doze sees that the phone's significant motion detector is no longer triggered and begins its counter... 'light' Doze kicks in.... I think about 5 minutes after you turn off the screen, and full Doze takes up to an hour I think to fully engage.

    So.... VERY long story short... Ambient Display, at least in how Google implemented it on the 6P, has little to no effect on battery life because it is not actually waking up the phone... the phone woke up by you picking it up off the desk.
    Oh, wow, thank you for the great explanation! Beforehand, I knew some of what Extreme Doze did, but not fully. As far as using both Ambient Display and extreme doze, you're saying that on NOugat 7.1.1 that it wouldn't effect the battery really at all, and we shouldn't notice any huge decrease in battery life as well?
    02-14-2017 12:18 PM
  12. LeoRex's Avatar
    Oh, wow, thank you for the great explanation! Beforehand, I knew some of what Extreme Doze did, but not fully. As far as using both Ambient Display and extreme doze, you're saying that on NOugat 7.1.1 that it wouldn't effect the battery really at all, and we shouldn't notice any huge decrease in battery life as well?
    Right. When you look at the scenarios that Ambient Display fires, in each of those, the phone is already fully awake whether or not you have AD enabled in the first place. The amount of power it draws is basically limited to the power needed to light the display. So on an AMOLED display, like the 6P, it is only firing a small percentage of the pixels, and even then, at fairly low power.
    02-14-2017 12:43 PM
  13. eric002's Avatar
    Right. When you look at the scenarios that Ambient Display fires, in each of those, the phone is already fully awake whether or not you have AD enabled in the first place. The amount of power it draws is basically limited to the power needed to light the display. So on an AMOLED display, like the 6P, it is only firing a small percentage of the pixels, and even then, at fairly low power.
    Ok, beautiful so need not worry about the battery power of the Ambient Display and extreme doze then. My notification setup was the Move gesture and ambient display both turned off, and i have Lite Flow LED Controller for all of my important notifications via different colors and frequencies of LED Lights. The only problem I am now running into is that I have run out of different color options for important people i message.
    02-14-2017 12:47 PM
  14. LeoRex's Avatar
    If I was a betting man, I would put my money down that the having that LED fire all the time might end up using more power than Ambient Display ever could.... not that the LED uses a ton of juice, just that AD uses less.
    02-14-2017 01:16 PM
  15. eric002's Avatar
    Awesome, I am going to thoroughly igive Ambient Display another try. I like to have a preview of my notifications regardless on my lock screen no matter what, I just got so used to the LED LIte Controller, but like i said, i have run out of colors for notifications. That's the annoying part. It's also nice to just Move the phone a little bit rather than hitting the power button unless I want to take a picture or a video. Thanks again for the in depth explanation! I wish when I called up Google support, they could explain it like that. The lady didn't really know how to answer the question unfortunately.
    02-14-2017 01:35 PM
  16. LeoRex's Avatar
    I wish when I called up Google support, they could explain it like that. The lady didn't really know how to answer the question unfortunately.
    Well, the front level CSRs usually spend their time walking people through logging into their account and using GMail... you gotta get your case escalated before you start to hit people that are technical.
    02-14-2017 01:47 PM
  17. eric002's Avatar
    Well, the front level CSRs usually spend their time walking people through logging into their account and using GMail... you gotta get your case escalated before you start to hit people that are technical.
    True that. Unfortunately, they've never heard of Androidcentral.com before, or even if they have, they won't admit to it.
    02-14-2017 01:49 PM

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