02-03-2011 08:30 PM
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  1. tony bag o donuts's Avatar
    I never rooted and don't plan on it.

    A person should not have to do things to their device to get simple things done.
    Just my 2 cents.
    01-19-2011 02:13 PM
  2. SocratesRising's Avatar
    Thanks for touching on this subject. I am new to smartphones as up until September 2010 I was using a motorola / nextel phone which took forever to even text on. I purchased the Samsung Epic 4G after some extensive research into smartphone capabilities and costs associated with them. Initially I was hugely impressed with all the features, speed and build quality of my phone. I don't seem to have the GPS issues some folks describe. I am also OK with a little lag here and there - I mean c'mon, even my PC sometimes acts up and after all these little guys are basically computers in your hand.
    With that said, everyone desires the latest and greatest. I was told when I purchased my phone it would soon update to Android 2.2.
    I would settle for a joint communication from Sprint and Samsung on where they stand technically speaking, what the challenges are and the proposed date of launch for 2.2. I believe the frustration lies in all the busted promises and lack of solid information from these two companies. A quick "We are working on it, coming soon!" just doesn't cut it anymore. Perhaps that would fly in mid-September, but we are sneaking up on February 2011. Thanks for listening. SocratesRising
    01-19-2011 02:30 PM
  3. Tarpit_Carnivore's Avatar
    Sorry gotta call bologna on that one, the TouchWiz interface is easily swapped in and out as shown by many of the custom roms. In addition the code base for gingerbread is running fine on the Nexus S in my wife hand across the room. Nearly identical hardware.

    Also compiling from source doesn't care about what hardware you're on as long as the compiler supports it. This is why linux so easily runs on so many platforms. From googles Froyo source there should only be at most a month to customize the source for fragmented or device specific hardware.
    I'll disagree there because there is a difference between stripping out TouchWiz to get plain Vanilla and upgrading an OS to support a UI change. Again I'll use my Eris as the example but there are 2.2 Sense ROMS for the Eris but not everything works. Why? Because 2.2 was not meant for the Eris. You can apply the same logic to TouchWiz in that it was originally compiled & designed to work on 2.1 and that changes need to be made for it to work on 2.2 -- hell even the custom themes that people make flashable don't work from ROM to ROM. Plus not to mention that you can read through threads and threads of people loading ROMS and not everything working perfectly for some people.

    Also your wife's Nexus S does not come with TouchWiz which your Galaxy S did. Same hardware but different OS design.

    I also just looked on XDA and all I saw were Vanilla based roms. So yes they're compiling from source and it's working but they're not compiling and implementing TouchWiz.
    01-19-2011 02:35 PM
  4. valueman's Avatar
    No one would buy a computer that could never ever be upgraded. Its why we do things with computers. We know they can be upgraded rather than being tossed out for a new one.
    Ok, but that does not address the current uproar. I have a Captivate, and it CAN be updated. I know, because I have done it. I run Froyo on my Captivate, and it is great. In that regard it is no different from the laptops I bought. The difference is that with smartphones there is a user expectation that the update will be provided for free.
    01-19-2011 02:47 PM
  5. psikofunkster's Avatar
    I never rooted and don't plan on it.

    A person should not have to do things to their device to get simple things done.
    Just my 2 cents.
    Exactly im not buying a samsung phone again ever.... unless they update to froyo and then to gingerbread pretty soon.

    Samsung galaxy s mexico queremos Froyo pronto! (no 6 meses)
    01-19-2011 02:49 PM
  6. cpk86's Avatar
    Hey guys,

    I just wanted to chime in by saying that I know everyone complains about the fiasco that is Samsung when it comes to updating their Android phones, but it's not just Android. My wife had the Samsung Epix (released Oct 2008 running windows mobile 6.1) and it was supposed to be upgraded to 6.5. Despite the fact that 6.5 was made available to manufacturers about May 2009, the Epix did not see the update until Oct 2010. The update was promised much sooner than that, and then pushed back a month at a time for a long time.
    Samsung is just terrible at taking care of current customers. They certainly make good products, but they age so quickly due to the lack of updates. It's sad that we all keep coming back to them really....
    01-19-2011 02:57 PM
  7. whippingboy's Avatar
    Well I FINALLY rooted the other day- and in the process had to install the leaked Epic DK28- before moving on to the ROM install- I tried out DK28. I saw NO PROBLEMS.

    Installed sprint bloat? Check.

    Working TouchWiz with the enhanced edit interface features that was previously NOT included in the Epic (but present in all other Galaxy S phones) Check.

    FIXED bugs and glitches in contacts and calendar (ie: no sorting, no view options, no defaulting calendar to a google account) CHECK. (This ALSO makes this a REQUIRED update IMHO)

    Now mind you- I did a CLEAN wipe of the phone and then installed DK28 with GPS active- perhaps the issue is they can't get 2.2 to update without a WIPE? And if that is the case, I can understand the concern- Android in 2.1 does not really back up too well even with 3rd party apps and that would make a lot of frustrated customers... but they COULD and SHOULD push out DK28 and make people aware of the risks/concerns and let them CHOOSE.

    Most consumers may not even know or care they don't have 2.2 - giving choice to those of us that want it.

    Communication of the carriers and Samsung has always been "wait for it" and then" ok not that date- a new undetermined one... but we'll talk soon!" THAT is unacceptable.
    01-19-2011 02:59 PM
  8. mlpjunior's Avatar
    If there's one thing that Samsung have assured themselves through this debacle, it's that their upcoming LTE device on Verizon will be a flop. If froyo doesn't arrive by late February before the new device, watch for Fascinate owners to lead the boycott.
    01-19-2011 03:00 PM
  9. MegaSoundwave76's Avatar
    This whole situation between Sammy and the carriers has turned into a farce. Verizon is pushing out a 2.2 update to the LG Ally as we speak. How is it that a mid-range Android phone is getting an update while a phone like the Fascinate (which has killer hardware and specs) still doesn't even have an OS update scheduled any time soon? Its not adding up at all. Something is definitely going on between the carriers and Samsung and we don't have any of the dirty details. I wonder if this will play a part with all the future hardware that may or may not hit US shores with the carriers...
    01-19-2011 03:11 PM
  10. BSG75's Avatar
    I have an hTC device. The bottom line is that hTC and Moto have been pretty good with updates. I'm on Verizon. With each vendor shipping out great phones, lazy updates will be a deciding factor for me. I don't plan on getting a Samsung device beause of these issues. Is it all Sammy's fault? Who knows? No one is saying what the problem is. Everyone is just wondering and speculating. If it's the carriers' faults, then Sammy needs to apply pressure because this is making them (Sammy) look bad. It's Samsung's phone in the end.

    This is the free market in action. If someone isn't getting it done, go to someone who is. I'm just glad this is one industry (cell manufacturers) where there are viable alternatives.

    You can say "blame the carriers and bloatware" but, again, hTC and Moto.

    Sure you can just load a ROM, but just means you stop complaining. The persons at fault are basically let off the hook and continue their bad practices. Sometimes complaining is warranted and the "stop complaining" people should recognize this.
    01-19-2011 03:14 PM
  11. fareal's Avatar
    Nothing to talk about.. just give me some official Froyo for my top-o-da-line Sprint Samsung Epic 4G (which I don't use but pay for 4G; but now looks like we're all suckers for sprint since we're all gonna being paying the $10, love it). Geeeez luiz. And then step it up on the Gingerbread, I don't want to be in another forum post like this same time next year.
    01-19-2011 03:19 PM
  12. icebike's Avatar
    you can say "blame the carriers and bloatware" but, again, htc and moto.
    this!
    01-19-2011 03:41 PM
  13. TheANARCHY's Avatar
    The Samsung Fascinate that I bought for my wife and me was our first venture into Android. We left AT&T because they suck in our area. It may very well be our last Android phones too!

    Thanks to the continued problems with the phone; GPS broke, car dock not working, capacitive buttons not staying lit, and in our case random reboots (since fixed with factory resets and I have rooted my phone), some of these issues are fixed. But I consider most of these problems things that the phone never should have shipped with.

    I did research the phone prior to buying so the BING thing wasn't an issue and still isn't. But a number of apps we used before either don't exist in the market or have a more up to date version on the iPhones we used to have. I've had email replies from various app devs who all say the same thing... "With no clear set of boundaries on what Android build is being used by what phone on what carrier, we can't spend the time and resources to make an app that works for all platforms." In other words... Fragmentation. Yes the dreaded F word.

    This update with the more than capable Galaxy S phones in the USA demonstrates the problem better than anything else I can think of. Not only is there no timeline from the phone vendor but the carriers put all their bloat on the phones too. This problem does not exist on a particular phone I can think of that just got announced on Verizon. Trade-offs be damned when it comes to ease of use and convenience for the customer. Android has a way to go to equal that user experience.

    My wife is already selling her Fascinate on Gazelle.com (a great way to get rid of your used phones and you get a better price than on Ebay) and getting an iPhone again on the 3rd of Feb when she can preorder. She will pay full price happily just to be done with the hassles. I'm not there yet as I like this phone since it's rooted with a custom ROM. But come May of next year my choice of getting another Android or the iPhone 5 will be a damned hard one to make.
    01-19-2011 03:47 PM
  14. BSG75's Avatar
    Ok, I'll start off by saying I'm an Epic owner from nearly the beginning. Perhaps I've been lucky but I have not encountered any of the major issues (gps, etc) people have reported. I'm not the biggest fan of what Samsung is doing (or more not doing) recently but really I don't care since I'm happy with it as is. Delayed/canceled updates are something that every manufacturer does, I remember waiting a very long time for HTC to update my previous phones to the point where I went ahead and did it myself via xda. Now I know rooting, etc is not for everyone but if it isn't your thing, and you are not happy with the phone you purchased, why did you keep it? A smartphone isn't a trivial purchase, you should be completely happy with it out of the box. Nowhere in your contract is the manufacturer committed to updated anything on the phone, yes we expect it but outside of warranty issues they really have no obligations. Most of them will probably go a step further because its good business to keep your customers happy but again, they are not required to.
    That said, Samsung you've probably lost me as a future customer. The entire lack of transparency with the updates is bs, if there are problems releasing it just let us know, and that goes for any manufacturer.

    The thing is Samsung (or hTC or Moto or any other manufacturer) is not the one coding the update. Google is doing ALL of the heavy lifting in putting out updates. Samsung just has to recompile and put it on their device, and put a lot less effort out than Google. If their TouchWiz is a PItA, then that's on them (of course, we go back to Europe doing just fine, as well as ROM cookers). My point is they get the OS for FREE (less some "with Google" branding costs) from Google, updates and all. They just need to retrofit a little.
    01-19-2011 03:50 PM
  15. Jalarm's Avatar
    I don't think it should be all put on Samsung. It is also partially the carriers fault, now I don't know that for sure but I mean we have seen leaked versions for I think all of the devices. Yes, it's obnoxious that we still don't have it (and I sold my captivate about a week ago, so I do know how Galaxy S owners feel.) My personal thought is that each of the carriers is waiting for another carrier to push it first so if there are any problems they could fix it and not look as bad. But, maybe I am wrong maybe Samsung just really could not handle it.
    01-19-2011 03:59 PM
  16. ctleng76's Avatar
    I have an hTC device. The bottom line is that hTC and Moto have been pretty good with updates. I'm on Verizon. With each vendor shipping out great phones, lazy updates will be a deciding factor for me. I don't plan on getting a Samsung device beause of these issues. Is it all Sammy's fault? Who knows? No one is saying what the problem is. Everyone is just wondering and speculating. If it's the carriers' faults, then Sammy needs to apply pressure because this is making them (Sammy) look bad. It's Samsung's phone in the end.

    This is the free market in action. If someone isn't getting it done, go to someone who is. I'm just glad this is one industry (cell manufacturers) where there are viable alternatives.

    You can say "blame the carriers and bloatware" but, again, hTC and Moto.

    Sure you can just load a ROM, but just means you stop complaining. The persons at fault are basically let off the hook and continue their bad practices. Sometimes complaining is warranted and the "stop complaining" people should recognize this.
    I agree 100%! We must NOT stop complaining. In fact, we should increase the number of complaints we file with both the carriers and the manufacturers.
    01-19-2011 04:23 PM
  17. dsignori's Avatar
    I think the the biggest problem revolving around this whole situation has been a complete lack of communication from both Verizon and Samsung. ...
    Abso-freakin-lutely. This is soooo true. The lack of any feedback is going to lead to the kind of wild speculation and user revolt that we are seeing now. It is pretty amazing that not a word has been uttered from either company. You hit the nail right on the head.
    01-19-2011 04:34 PM
  18. Big Guy's Avatar
    I have a conspiracy theory for ya...

    Ever thought that there may be a hardware problem with the Galaxy S phones that Samsung is trying to resolve or is preventing them from upgrading the phones?

    I am on my third Bell Canada Vibrant (I9000M). The phones were upgraded to Froyo and subsequently bricked due to the internal SD cards failing. From what I hear this is a wide spread issue (Bell has a return policy where they give customers $100 credit in addition to a replacement phone). While I was getting my last phone replaced there was another customer returning their Vibrant at the same time.

    It also seems to only be happening to the Canadian version of the I9000 Vibrant. Can anyone confirm this? Supposedly the difference between the Bell and other versions of the I9000 is that the internal SD Card is 16M for the Canadian version and only 8M for the others. Maybe this 16M card is causing Samsung some upgrade issues or fear? All US versions of the Galaxy S phone have 16M internal cards don't they?

    The last time my Vibrant bricked it also took out the external SD card. The external removable card is not recognized (or can be formatted) by my replacement phone or my computer... So maybe there is an issue with other components in the phone as well?

    Comments?
    01-19-2011 05:03 PM
  19. twomix9900's Avatar
    There are not enough words in the English language to succinctly and accurately articulate my rage and hatred @ Samsung Mobile.
    01-19-2011 05:21 PM
  20. jrz5024's Avatar
    As I've said before, this whole update thing wouldn't be a problem if not for Samsung's baked-in TW garbage. Skins should be included as launchers only, not as baked-in rehauls of the entire OS.
    01-19-2011 05:43 PM
  21. Xopher's Avatar
    I would like to hear to general discussions about the whole menatility that the tech savvy smartphone users have about updates.

    When it comes to OS updates we (at least many of us) expect them, and we expect them for free (of course). We expect it because that is the way it has been, at or at least thats how it has been for many.

    A little over a year ago I bought my Captivate I also bought some netbooks from AT&T for our staff to use in the field. They were running Windows XP. I dont expect AT&T to provide OS updates for those computers. Such a notion seems silly, but thats what we expect for our smartphones.

    Smartphones are really nothing more than small computers. So what if those who sell smartphones just take the same attitude as those who sell bigger computers? You buy it with an OS, and if you want to change it, thats on you.
    I can understand where this is coming from. But, if I buy a Dell/HP/Compaq computer, I'm not going back to the manufacturer to buy the updated OS. I'm buying the OS from the source (i.e. Microsoft if I'm updating Windows). Of course, the manufacturer has to provide drivers and such to handle new OS versions. How many manufacturers charge for driver updates?

    Even though smart phones are like tiny computers, they aren't really handled the same way. It would be great if you could load a base OS, add in the device-specific drivers, then add in the components for whatever carrier we happen to be using.

    For whatever reason, it isn't done like that. OS goes to the manufacturer, manufacturer tweaks it and passes it on to the carrier, who (bloats) tweaks it more before sending it out to customers. Whatever politics gets added into that as well probably adds to the mess. Too many cooks in the kitchen... everybody pointing fingers at someone else...
    01-19-2011 05:44 PM
  22. psikofunkster's Avatar
    This whole situation between Sammy and the carriers has turned into a farce. Verizon is pushing out a 2.2 update to the LG Ally as we speak. How is it that a mid-range Android phone is getting an update while a phone like the Fascinate (which has killer hardware and specs) still doesn't even have an OS update scheduled any time soon? Its not adding up at all. Something is definitely going on between the carriers and Samsung and we don't have any of the dirty details. I wonder if this will play a part with all the future hardware that may or may not hit US shores with the carriers...
    Exactly they want us to buy the new brand one and throw away the older... ha ha, they're dreaming never buying a samsung again...never! until of course they update their firmware right away!

    I have a conspiracy theory for ya...

    Ever thought that there may be a hardware problem with the Galaxy S phones that Samsung is trying to resolve or is preventing them from upgrading the phones?

    I am on my third Bell Canada Vibrant (I9000M). The phones were upgraded to Froyo and subsequently bricked due to the internal SD cards failing. From what I hear this is a wide spread issue (Bell has a return policy where they give customers $100 credit in addition to a replacement phone). While I was getting my last phone replaced there was another customer returning their Vibrant at the same time.

    It also seems to only be happening to the Canadian version of the I9000 Vibrant. Can anyone confirm this? Supposedly the difference between the Bell and other versions of the I9000 is that the internal SD Card is 16M for the Canadian version and only 8M for the others. Maybe this 16M card is causing Samsung some upgrade issues or fear? All US versions of the Galaxy S phone have 16M internal cards don't they?

    The last time my Vibrant bricked it also took out the external SD card. The external removable card is not recognized (or can be formatted) by my replacement phone or my computer... So maybe there is an issue with other components in the phone as well?

    Comments?
    No excuses for them, if they can't deliver froyo then gingerbread!
    01-19-2011 06:23 PM
  23. Butters3605's Avatar
    Just wanted to put my two cents in here...

    I have been running DK28, basically since it came out. I have only run into three issues:

    1. WiFi does not always turn on properly, gives an "error" (a reboot usually solves the issue).
    2. TouchWiz launcher is slow to transition between portrait/landscape mode and via versa.
    3. Camera software seems to make the auto-focus a little "soft"

    here are the things that are working well for me:
    1. GPS is awesome (accurate to 7ft) http://forum.androidcentral.com/epic...tml#post478039
    2. TouchWiz 3.0 enhancements
    3. Flash 10.1
    01-19-2011 06:24 PM
  24. capitaltpt's Avatar
    I really think the answer to all of this is that manufacturers really need to stop including proprietary software on their phones. There was an article on AC a few days back that talked about how Sony admitted to making the mistake that people were more interested in the software than the hardware. I think this reigns true of most phone enthusiasts. I think most of us would agree that we purchased phones from the Galaxy S series because they had the top hardware out at the time.

    What I believe Samsung (and other manufacturers) really need to do is have stock android on all of their phones. Then, if the manufacture really wants to have custom software to show off their brand, they should offer things like TouchWiz as optional free upgrades to the phones. In my mind, this would accomplish several things:

    1. Faster updates to the newest version of Android
    2. Decrease the fragmentation of Android
    3. Encourage manufacturers to spend their time on the hardware of the phone to ensure a good quality WORKING product right out of the gate.
    4. Manufacturers can still market their optional custom software as bonus features.

    And before people start asking if this option would put people who choose to install the optional software in the same boat with updates that we're in now, Why can't they be installable and uninstallable?

    Just food for thought.
    01-19-2011 06:34 PM
  25. SmokeCage.com's Avatar
    So let's hear it straight from their corporate marketing veep regarding what's going on. Don't accept no for an answer Phil!

    Invite them too speak at the podcast. I'm certain they can't say they don't have the technology. . .
    01-19-2011 07:19 PM
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