Pixel 2 or V30?

[Diehlirious]

I recently bought the V30 with the plans of buying a Pixel 2 for my mom for Christmas. I bought the V30 because I love the wide angle, video features, quad dac and I prefer manual mode. I'm BIG into photography, would like to do video projects in the future but haven't used the video much. I also very much appreciate the quad dac and it is amazing but I won't be heart broken w/ out it...

So here's the thing, I bought the Pixel 2 (not the XL) for my mother and she prefers my V30. So I'm trying to figure out which phone to go w/? The good thing is if I gave her the V30 & needed to borrow it to work on any video projects (interviews, music videos, tv/movie ideas) she would lend it to me for a week or two to do that. & I do like the Pixel 2 it just doesn't have Log & video features or the manual mode but it would be a great camera upgrade for photography which has been my main & only focus.

I'm not sure which way to roll w/. I'm not leaning towards one phone or the other which is why I came to trusty old Android Central to see what you guys thought and to see about any suggestions...

 

[B. Diddy]

How much have you done with the V30's camera so far? @LeoRex, one of the other Ambassadors here, felt that the V30 camera had significant issues with handling shadows and contrast, and I saw it firsthand on another friend's V30. I've heard the guys on the AC podcast lament about how the V30's video camera is not as good as it should be for a phone whose focus is multimedia production. Of course, others might have a different experience, so let's see what others have to say as well.

The Pixel 2's camera is absolutely amazing when it comes to still photography, so you can't go wrong there.

 

[LeoRex]

How much have you done with the V30's camera so far?

I owed the phone for 20 days and returned it on the last day of the return window. I spend most of that time fussing with the camera. I focused mostly on stills.... I don't take a ton of video in general. I tried anything and everything I could to try to get the best feel for it. There was so much hype around the phone's imaging that I figured it was worth a consideration.

It wasn't... The only things the V30's still camera brings to the table that the Pixel 2 can't two are the wide angle lens. That's really the bulk of it. Yes, the Google Camera doesn't have much manual controls, but . But why bother? Unless you are looking for a very specific effect, there is no amount of adjusting in the world that you can do on a V30 to have it take a shot that would be comparable to the 2 XL I currently own (or my wife's XL, which I used to compare). The only way to really get a usable pic from the V30 is if you download the modified Google Camera app that is making the rounds.

Video... the V30 had a ton of cool modes, pretty unique stuff that I could see as being useful, but my focus is still images like I said... yeah, no way I would pick the V30 over the P2, never in a million years.

 

[Diehlirious]

@B. Diddy @LeoRex Ok so I'm convinced & I also want to thank you for any advice you two have given me in the past because you def have. The question now is, is the S9 or any other mwc flagship camera phone worth waiting for over the Pixel 2? I realized I have that option too

I've personally enjoyed the wide angle a ton & have gotten done good shots from an artistic standpoint using the V30, but like you guys have said the Pixel 2 is where it's at & takes some amazing still shots which is what I'm all about.

 

[LeoRex]

The question now is, is the S9 or any other mwc flagship camera phone worth waiting for over the Pixel 2? I realized I have that option too

'because next' is always there... There will always be new phones coming to play that game. But... Last year, everyone was playing catch up with the Pixel in terms of photography and it wasn't really bested until the Pixel 2. And now everyone is playing catch-up again, this time with the Pixels again... And I think they'll be doing that until the Pixel 3 drops.

 

[Diehlirious]

'because next' is always there... There will always be new phones coming to play that game. But... Last year, everyone was playing catch up with the Pixel in terms of photography and it wasn't really bested until the Pixel 2. And now everyone is playing catch-up again, this time with the Pixels again... And I think they'll be doing that until the Pixel 3 drops.

That's exactly what I was thinking I just didn't want to be biased when asking you both that question. I agree too LeoRex

 

[LeoRex]

That's exactly what I was thinking I just didn't want to be biased when asking you both that question. I agree too LeoRex

I've spent way too much time and money fussing around when phones the past couple of years.. I got a 6P at launch and since then my wife has burned through : G4, S7, Note 7, S7Edge, G6 (returned twice FPS defect).... All had various camera related issues that drove my wife crazy (well, except the Note, but, uh). Reliability was spotty.. the S7s randomly failed to save pictures... And none of them matched my 6P in terms of picture quality. I switched phones and gave her my 6P in May and the complaints stopped.

So I learned to lessons... 1) I should have bought 2 6Ps, not one. And 2) her next phone would be a Pixel... Cuz I wasn't playing anymore. She now is a happy owner of a Pixel XL, and not a single complaint of blurry or 'pixely' (her way of describing a horribly over-processed image)

 

[Diehlirious]

I've spent way too much time and money fussing around when phones the past couple of years.. I got a 6P at launch and since then my wife has burned through : G4, S7, Note 7, S7Edge, G6 (returned twice FPS defect).... All had various camera related issues that drove my wife crazy (well, except the Note, but, uh). Reliability was spotty.. the S7s randomly failed to save pictures... And none of them matched my 6P in terms of picture quality. I switched phones and gave her my 6P in May and the complaints stopped.

So I learned to lessons... 1) I should have bought 2 6Ps, not one. And 2) her next phone would be a Pixel... Cuz I wasn't playing anymore. She now is a happy owner of a Pixel XL, and not a single complaint of blurry or 'pixely' (her way of describing a horribly over-processed image)

It's so funny because I can completely understand about the 6p. I owned it for a little bit & when I first started taking pics w/ the V30 after using the 6p I had the same complaints. When you blow it up on a desktop screen you notice the quality & the V30's shots just didn't have that 6p warmth in them. I almost felt like whatever Google was doing w/ their processing, LG was doing the opposite. I think I just got used to the V30, complacent, but I'm glad things worked out the way they did. I actually just turned on the Pixel 2, it's in the setup part. No home screen yet.

 

[LeoRex]

I almost felt like whatever Google was doing w/ their processing, LG was doing the opposite.

Actually, you are pretty spot on.

The V30 uses a small sensor (1/3") and takes one long exposure and a low ISO to compensate... It then grinds it through a heavy dose of noise reduction and sharpening.

The Pixel 2 utilizes a much bigger sensor 1/2.4"... And rather than one long exposure, it is continuously taking quicker exposures (at a higher ISO) while the camera app is open.

Now, here is where the magic known as HDR+ happens.

When you hit the shutter, it decides how many exposures it needs (anywhere from 3 to 12 I believe) and saves them to a set. If you looked at one of these images, it would be fairly dark and really noisy... It picks the 'best' image from the set as the base image and goes pixel by pixel and compares it across the whole set. Noise is random, so noisy pixels will stand out and get tossed from the set. (You can consider this the '+' part of HDR+)

The set is then analyzed and it uses that information to brighten the lowlights and darken the highlights... which are less likely to be clipped due to the quicker exposure used earlier. (Here's the HDR part). It will then merge everything into the final image and do some traditional processing, with a very light touch. Google prioritizes information over processing, so additional noise reduction or sharpening is kept to a minimum to avoid losing detail from the original images. This is why shots may have a little more noise that some other phones... More processing would lead to detail being lost.

So it's not a shock that many people think pictures coming from the Pixels look more real... It's because they are. What you see is the result of using information from the image itself, rather than something some equation spit out.

It's a brilliant solution, borrowed from astronomy, to improving image quality. And Google is still the only one in the industry doing it... At least for a little while longer. Qualcomm announced that the Snapdragon 845's ISP will utilize multi-frame image processing. It remains to be seen if they can piece everything together as well as Google can... Google has a massive amount of imaging data to help hone those algorithms.

 

[Diehlirious]

Actually, you are pretty spot on.

The V30 uses a small sensor (1/3") and takes one long exposure and a low ISO to compensate... It then grinds it through a heavy dose of noise reduction and sharpening.

The Pixel 2 utilizes a much bigger sensor 1/2.4"... And rather than one long exposure, it is continuously taking quicker exposures (at a higher ISO) while the camera app is open.

Now, here is where the magic known as HDR+ happens.

When you hit the shutter, it decides how many exposures it needs (anywhere from 3 to 12 I believe) and saves them to a set. If you looked at one of these images, it would be fairly dark and really noisy... It picks the 'best' image from the set as the base image and goes pixel by pixel and compares it across the whole set. Noise is random, so noisy pixels will stand out and get tossed from the set. (You can consider this the '+' part of HDR+)

The set is then analyzed and it uses that information to brighten the lowlights and darken the highlights... which are less likely to be clipped due to the quicker exposure used earlier. (Here's the HDR part). It will then merge everything into the final image and do some traditional processing, with a very light touch. Google prioritizes information over processing, so additional noise reduction or sharpening is kept to a minimum to avoid losing detail from the original images. This is why shots may have a little more noise that some other phones... More processing would lead to detail being lost.

So it's not a shock that many people think pictures coming from the Pixels look more real... It's because they are. What you see is the result of using information from the image itself, rather than something some equation spit out.

It's a brilliant solution, borrowed from astronomy, to improving image quality. And Google is still the only one in the industry doing it... At least for a little while longer. Qualcomm announced that the Snapdragon 845's ISP will utilize multi-frame image processing. It remains to be seen if they can piece everything together as well as Google can... Google has a massive amount of imaging data to help hone those algorithms.

Sorry for the late reply. It makes complete sense what you're saying & that's awesome how you broke everything down. When I look at my V30 pics I almost feel like I'm looking at some computer picture of what I actually just shot. It doesn't feel natural.

What do you think about the Pixel 2 having the HDR+ enhanced? I think from what I was reading it's even better.

I lied, I do miss the Quad Dac. Man, you don't realize how amazing it is till it's gone. The difference in audio quality between the Pixel 2 & V30 is noticable.

Also have you ever check out this link? It's really cool and interesting.

https://research.googleblog.com/2017/04/experimental-nighttime-photography-with.html?m=1

Idk if you've also heard of the Open Camera app, but someone that was posting in the folder where the experimental nighttime pics are, modified that app. It seems a little similar to what Google does. I've been taking some interesting shots w/ the app. It's the second link. Here's what he wrote...

"Hello there. Recently I have modify "open camera" app a bit for my needs. I have increased max exposure time up to 4 seconds and auto repeat mode from 10x to 32x and 64x frames. So I have set 2sec exposure time and take 32 regular and 32 black frames in dng extension. This is what I have achieved on my Nexus 5x: https://photos.app.goo.gl/TNoJ8U26JObVBeBs1 .
Not ideal but for the first time this is not so bad I think.
This is modified apk: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2Pnqyae99NFSmlhVHYzbTJNdk0 . I not guarantee what this will work on your devices. For manual exposure time control you should turn on "use camera2 api" in settings and set manual iso control."

 

[LeoRex]

What do you think about the Pixel 2 having the HDR+ enhanced? I think from what I was reading it's even better.

The enhanced mode is same as the old HDR+ On mode in the Pixel 1, they just changed the name to have to make more sense (auto/on made more sense in the 6P)... It stops the always on capture stuff and tries to better expose to scene's extremes, then takes more than the default mode would. In most situations, there isn't a big difference. But it should do a little bit better when there is a huge dynamic range, or if the scene is really dark.

 

[Diehlirious]

But it should do a little bit better when there is a huge dynamic range, or if the scene is really dark.

I actually noticed that when I took some pics a couple hours ago. I think you can see it in this one

 

[Diehlirious]

@LeoRex My thing right now is that it's so obvious how much better the Pixel 2's Camera is but I find myself a little bored regardless. Despite the inferior quality of the V30 it's fun switching to wide angle & I really miss & love using Manual Mode.