1. Android Central Question's Avatar
    I know some of you will say "I don't care"
    Or some of you will say "they collect all your data anyway"
    But. .

    The voice control on Google, which you activate by holding down the circle until Google listens for commands:
    I used to use this to record events for my calendar, it was very convenient and meant I could assist my forgetful nature when it came to appointments, without being put off by the hassle of using an app and twiddling with the controls.
    This used to work perfectly for me and the voice recognition was pretty much spot on.

    BUT...

    A short while ago the feature asked for "more information" you might think you could just select "no thanks" and Google would respect your decision??
    No chance, of you say no thanks, the next time you try to use the service you will again be harassed and asked for "more information" or you won't be able to use the service.

    There is no reason that Google should collect my personal data, such as CONTACTS !? Location etc, just so I can use it to make a calendar entry for the cinema next Monday at 9?
    Give me one valid reason why it needs more information for that.
    It certainly didn't need it before.
    A pen and paper doesn't need it either.

    If you don't care about this, I worry for the future of personal information. You may THINK it's not important, but one day if personal data is ever misused, which it can and Has been countless times up until now, you'll be sorry.
    People need to take a stand on these issues.

    This is a slippery slope, 20 years ago we didn't have security at supermarkets, airports or government services locations, like the council, job centre, etc the way we do now. 20 years later, this is going to be like a prison and because it's fine incrementally, most people won't care, when by law, you have to have a GPS chip in your hand or a cctv camera in your house.
    God help us.
    07-06-2018 04:28 AM
  2. chanchan05's Avatar
    1. Google asks for contacts because if you say 'going to the cinema with friend A' it's going to check in your contact for friend A and send him an invite to put the event in their calendar too.

    2. It asks for location because if you say 'going to the cinema A with friend A', not only will it send an invite to friend A, Google will be monitoring traffic from your location to cinema A and alert you accordingly if you will be able to make it on the agreed time. It will tell you 1hr before the time that you need to leave in 15min because the traffic will make you take 45min to travel to cinema A.

    Pen and paper don't do that.

    The thing is, Google Assistant is an Assistant, as in a personal assistant, not a voice command feature. I have no idea on what you do for a living, but these are exactly what real human personal assistants do if you've experienced having one, and they need the same info to do their work.

    The simple fix here if you are uncomfortable with Google Assistant working like it should, as an electronic replacement for an expensive personal assistant, is to simply not use it.
    hallux, belodion and Laura Knotek like this.
    07-06-2018 04:54 AM
  3. hallux's Avatar
    I don't recall the Google app requesting additional permissions recently, are you possibly a little behind on updating the app?

    I could see a couple reasons for both permissions. Say you ask it to put on your calendar that you're going to a movie with "Bill", having access to contacts would allow the assistant to also send Bill an invite. Say you're going to a movie at "Bowtie Cinemas", if there are multiple the location service could be used to add the nearest one as the location for the event.

    If you store your contacts with Google, or use Maps at all, Google already has this information within your account (but that doesn't mean it goes anywhere besides your account).
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    07-06-2018 05:04 AM
  4. G Fawkes's Avatar
    I don't recall the Google app requesting additional permissions recently, are you possibly a little behind on updating the app?

    I could see a couple reasons for both permissions. Say you ask it to put on your calendar that you're going to a movie with "Bill", having access to contacts would allow the assistant to also send Bill an invite. Say you're going to a movie at "Bowtie Cinemas", if there are multiple the location service could be used to add the nearest one as the location for the event.

    If you store your contacts with Google, or use Maps at all, Google already has this information within your account (but that doesn't mean it goes anywhere besides your account).

    Sorry. That just doesn't cut it.
    Both your answer and the previous posters seem to have very carefully twisted the context so as to apply a legitimate reason for Google's intrusive action.

    I'm completely serious, is this forum in any way sponsored by Google?

    I made a very lengthy post before logging in here and very specifically mentioned adding a calendar entry. I made absolutely no mention whatsoever of going to a cinema with anybody however. You added that piece 0f information, to justify Google demanding more information.

    However even though I made no mention of going WITH anyone, to the cinema. Even if I did, if I declined to allow Google access to my private information, what is the justification for Google not adding the calendar entry, without a pointless and useless link to that person's contact number in my address book?

    You very conveniently skipped over the part where previously adding calender entries did NOT require giving Google extra permissions.
    And then you hypothesized extra information into my calendar use to justify Google.
    That's very tricky of you 😔



    Btw the update is fairly recent, and no. I update often, I'm on android 7

    Btw2 logging in here is a nightmare, first it coerced me to link to my Google account and then after I did it did not return me to the page I was visiting?
    So I had to press back, even though android central was forcing the page forward again.
    Very inconvenient, maybe someone should look into that.
    07-06-2018 07:43 AM
  5. Almeuit's Avatar
    I'm completely serious, is this forum in any way sponsored by Google?
    I'm completely serious -- no. We are volunteers of the site and that is it. We are no different than you . So are you saying we have to be sponsored by something simply because we don't share your view on the matter?
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    07-06-2018 09:02 AM
  6. Almeuit's Avatar
    This is a slippery slope, 20 years ago we didn't have security at supermarkets, airports or government services locations, like the council, job centre, etc the way we do now. 20 years later, this is going to be like a prison and because it's fine incrementally, most people won't care, when by law, you have to have a GPS chip in your hand or a cctv camera in your house.
    So I have one challenge for you -- You use a cell phone right? Why? You do realize they have your location at all times... right? You seem so concerned about Google yet you trust your carrier. Very odd to me. They have been able to do that since before we had GPS in our hands.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    07-06-2018 09:48 AM
  7. chanchan05's Avatar
    Sorry. That just doesn't cut it.
    Both your answer and the previous posters seem to have very carefully twisted the context so as to apply a legitimate reason for Google's intrusive action.

    I'm completely serious, is this forum in any way sponsored by Google?

    I made a very lengthy post before logging in here and very specifically mentioned adding a calendar entry. I made absolutely no mention whatsoever of going to a cinema with anybody however. You added that piece 0f information, to justify Google demanding more information.

    However even though I made no mention of going WITH anyone, to the cinema. Even if I did, if I declined to allow Google access to my private information, what is the justification for Google not adding the calendar entry, without a pointless and useless link to that person's contact number in my address book?

    You very conveniently skipped over the part where previously adding calender entries did NOT require giving Google extra permissions.
    And then you hypothesized extra information into my calendar use to justify Google.
    That's very tricky of you



    Btw the update is fairly recent, and no. I update often, I'm on android 7

    Btw2 logging in here is a nightmare, first it coerced me to link to my Google account and then after I did it did not return me to the page I was visiting?
    So I had to press back, even though android central was forcing the page forward again.
    Very inconvenient, maybe someone should look into that.
    You misunderstand completely. I did not hypothesize you have extra information. I gave examples of why the app would need the other permissions. It doesn't matter if you don't put the extra information in. The Google Assistant has features that require permissions to access your contacts and location. It doesn't matter if you never use those features, the features are still there. They're not going to disappear just because you ignore them.

    Also, even thinking that you can hide your contacts and calendar and anything in your phone from Google while using an OS made and coded by Google is just lying to yourself anyway. By activating an Android phone you already agreed to sign over your data to Google anyway (Terms of Use Agreement that a lot of people don't read). The moment you turned on your Android phone and accepted the terms of use, you agreed to have Google access your contacts and data.

    So as I said, Google Assistant was designed to do all that automatically, and to do all that automatically, it needs those permissions pre-granted so as to not ask you every time. Of course, Google also wants your data, and we all know that, and it's something we need accept in exchange for the convenience they provide, otherwise we need to look for somebody else to provide that service if we don't want to turn over our data.

    As I said, the easy fix is to not use Google Assistant. Google updated Assistant with convenience to the user in mind, while mining more data in exchange. And that's why it asks you for those permissions, because if you don't feel comfortable about it, then don't use it.

    Google is free to make their own choices in the products they make. They decide that they make Assistant available for you in exchange for your data. They are very well free to do that as they please. It's only a breach of privacy if they did it behind your back, which they didn't because up front they told you they wanted new permissions. You're free to choose to not give over your data, but that also means they have the right to refuse you their service. Your data is the currency they choose to deal in with you. Just like you have to pay to get a Big Mac, you have to pay to get Voice Assistant.

    Saying you want to use Google's services but not give them your data is like saying you want McDonald's to give you a Big Mac without paying for it. You pay for Google's services with your data.
    hallux and Laura Knotek like this.
    07-06-2018 10:11 AM
  8. hallux's Avatar
    I made a very lengthy post before logging in here and very specifically mentioned adding a calendar entry. I made absolutely no mention whatsoever of going to a cinema with anybody however. You added that piece 0f information, to justify Google demanding more information.

    However even though I made no mention of going WITH anyone, to the cinema. Even if I did, if I declined to allow Google access to my private information, what is the justification for Google not adding the calendar entry, without a pointless and useless link to that person's contact number in my address book?
    Because I was using it as an example. Funny enough @chanchan05 and I chose the same example but it was pure coincidence.

    What app do you use for navigation, Google Maps? Google knows where you're going anyway. What app do you use for contacts, Google's Contacts app? Google has THAT info associated to your account already.
    07-06-2018 12:38 PM
  9. Rukbat's Avatar
    Google assistant needs permissions and information for all the things it can be used for, not just for the things you use it for. It's kind of a little bit of artificial intelligence, it's not artificial telepathy.

    And it's going to be asking for even more with P - you start typing a text and it will finish the sentence for you. You tell Maps "Best Buy" when you're in a city you've never been to and it will route you to the fastest one to get to - you won't have to say "find Best Buy" or "route me to Best Buy". Sundar Pichai (CEO of Google) made a big deal about the AI that's getting added at Google I/O 18. (But "they" don't "keep" your data, any more than is necessary for your apps to work. They know how many GBoard predictions were accepted, but they don't keep a list of the words you accepted. [Maybe they keep a list of words not accepted, to improve predictions.] And no one at Google [or any other data bank - I know, before I retired I used to massage clients' data by the ton] looks at your data - they don't have the time, let alone the permissions needed. [Those who do have permission wouldn't - you fix a record that's obviously wrong - a client in Los Angeles with a customer in NYC listing the customer's area code as 213, for example - then you move on to the next record. And if your life depended on it, you might remember that you'd fixed an area code in the last record, but that's about it. You don't pay attention to things like that, so you don't remember them.])

    Trust me, if you will - I've been in the business since computers started keeping database records, and I'm not worried that Google will use my data for anything. (If I had a file with plans to assassinate the President, some AI might pick up on that and notify someone at Google, but I doubt even that. And they certainly aren't watching my shopping list or meds list.) The data is used for statistics, not specifics. I think if they found someone going through customers' data, that person would be fired - from a real canon. Look at all the security patches they keep issuing. They're serious about security. (If you don't have a Google phone, you aren't aware that there's an update every month, like clockwork. And since September of 2017 (the first update to the Pixel 2 line), only one of them has been an Android update - the rest were all hardware and security patches. (They even list what each update is for, item by item.)

    But if you don't want to give them your information, stick with iPhone. Maybe you trust Apple more. Or get a feature phone - voice, data and a web browser. Or, since just making a phone call gives "them" a lot of information about you, stop using phones, mail, public transportation, motor vehicles ... Just invent a time machine, go back to the 15th century and be secure in your knowledge that no one can find you or know anything about you. Or cure you of something as simple as the flu. Have a cholesterol blockage in your heart? Say goodbye, because there's nothing they can do about it. (Why do you think the human lifespan was about 40 years in 1900? Aliens? I'm 76 now, and I'd love to see another 25 years - and if I have to worry that Google may know where I am [they won't], so be it. Was it safer 200 years ago? Not in the least. It was more private - but the average person didn't get to live long enough to worry about privacy.)
    07-06-2018 04:58 PM
  10. G Fawkes's Avatar
    So I have one challenge for you -- You use a cell phone right? Why? You do realize they have your location at all times... right? You seem so concerned about Google yet you trust your carrier. Very odd to me. They have been able to do that since before we had GPS in our hands.
    Answering 3 people:
    I predicted these answers. Re read my original post. "You can't stop them anyway, so who cares" I was pretty much bang on. Millennials are so predictable in their herd/ brainwashed mentality lol. But no, this doesn't cut the mustard. If I chose not to provide full unconditional access, that's my choice, I should still be able to use that feature, (as I did before) without providing access to extra things.
    Just because I have a smartphone, you imply that preemptively supplies my consent to full disclosure of private information?
    I reiterate, that just doesn't cut it. That defeatist submissive attitude infers that I might As well give Google whatever they want, because they "probably get it anyway"
    Sorry but that's s pathetic response.
    I have a smartphone but I still have my rights and should be able to exercise them freely, also you can bank on the fact that I've already taken several precautions, such as VPN, firewall, proxies and ghost servers, but I'm going on a tangent and that's irrelevant to the subject anyway.

    It's my right, not privilege to not provide that info, and I won't, this was a warning to people who follow your mentality of, "you can't stop them, so stop complaining"
    The whole business with zuckerberg and the data protection amendments had to do exactly with data misuse.
    Your problem, is that you wait for other people to fix these problems, but yourself only compound a problem and making it worse, by perpetuating ignorance and compliance.
    07-07-2018 07:12 AM
  11. chanchan05's Avatar
    Just because I have a smartphone, you imply that preemptively supplies my consent to full disclosure of private information?
    I am not implying. I am informing you that YOU ACTUALLY ALREADY DID CONSENT to full disclosure. When you turned on your phone, one of the screens that you need to click accept before being able to activate it is the terms of use. From your rant I assume you're one of the people who didn't bother to read that. Inside that terms of use that you accepted, you agreed that it's okay for Google to keep track of your location, your contacts, etc. Basically you already agreed to give them your data. You already waived all these rights you are speaking of that you have. Your phone won't start if you don't agree to that.

    Please don't call us ignorant when you yourself is apparently ignorant of the things you already agreed to before hand. So don't wave around saying you still have rights when you already agreed to waive those rights (which means you don't have those rights anymore). The only rights you have left is to choose which apps has access to those info your phone is collecting.

    All cellphone companies have this in the terms of use. You're just picking who you're giving your data to. Don't like Google and go to Apple? Apple will keep the same data Google gets, only difference is they're not Google.

    We're not ignorant. In fact we're so well informed that we know exactly what we're getting into. You're the one who didn't know you already waived the rights you still claim to have. You can't say you can choose to not provide access when you already did.

    Furthermore, on the terms of agreement, Google also says that they reserve the right to change their software without prior notice to you. WHICH YOU AGREED TO. Which again means, this change in service is something you agreed to and is okay.

    Another thing, while you do claim to have rights, Google also has rights to deny its services to you if they so choose by you not agreeing to their terms. Which means, there is nothing wrong with them making the previous features unusable to you because you already agreed to them doing that, because you already said in the EULA that it's okay for them to do that.

    Maybe you should read the fine print before ranting.

    As I said before, if you don't like Google's policy, use something else. There's a ton of voice control apps on the Play Store. Just remember to read their terms of use though. Seems you really need to know what you are agreeing to beforehand.

    By the way, it's not really a defeatist nature when I can say I have read the terms and agreed that the data I'm providing isn't that big of a deal to me. I could care less if Google knows I'm eating at KFC right now. If there's something I don't want them to know, then it doesn't go on my phone. That's pretty simple to manage.
    07-07-2018 07:39 AM
  12. hallux's Avatar
    Here's a little reading on the topic - https://www.androidcentral.com/does-...sell-your-data

    Fine, it's from AC, but it's an interpretation of the ToS that you agreed to when registering for Google services, not just agreeing to the terms when you set up your phone but also when you registered for your Gmail account! If Google violates those terms there are much bigger problems.
    07-07-2018 08:22 AM
  13. G Fawkes's Avatar

    I am not implying. I am informing you that YOU ACTUALLY ALREADY DID CONSENT to full disclosure. When you turned on your phone, one of the screens that you need to click accept before being able to activate it is the terms of use. From your rant I assume you're one of the people who didn't bother to read that. Inside that terms of use that you accepted, you agreed that it's okay for Google to keep track of your location, your contacts, etc. Basically you already agreed to give them your data. You already waived all these rights you are speaking of that you have. Your phone won't start if you don't agree to that.

    Please don't call us ignorant when you yourself is apparently ignorant of the things you already agreed to before hand. So don't wave around saying you still have rights when you already agreed to waive those rights (which means you don't have those rights anymore). The only rights you have left is to choose which apps has access to those info your phone is collecting.

    All cellphone companies have this in the terms of use. You're just picking who you're giving your data to. Don't like Google and go to Apple? Apple will keep the same data Google gets, only difference is they're not Google.

    We're not ignorant. In fact we're so well informed that we know exactly what we're getting into. You're the one who didn't know you already waived the rights you still claim to have. You can't say you can choose to not provide access when you already did.

    Furthermore, on the terms of agreement, Google also says that they reserve the right to change their software without prior notice to you. WHICH YOU AGREED TO. Which again means, this change in service is something you agreed to and is okay.

    Another thing, while you do claim to have rights, Google also has rights to deny its services to you if they so choose by you not agreeing to their terms. Which means, there is nothing wrong with them making the previous features unusable to you because you already agreed to them doing that, because you already said in the EULA that it's okay for them to do that.

    Maybe you should read the fine print before ranting.

    As I said before, if you don't like Google's policy, use something else. There's a ton of voice control apps on the Play Store. Just remember to read their terms of use though. Seems you really need to know what you are agreeing to beforehand.

    By the way, it's not really a defeatist nature when I can say I have read the terms and agreed that the data I'm providing isn't that big of a deal to me. I could care less if Google knows I'm eating at KFC right now. If there's something I don't want them to know, then it doesn't go on my phone. That's pretty simple to manage.
    False. My phone is rooted
    07-07-2018 08:31 AM
  14. chanchan05's Avatar
    False. Rooting has nothing to do with EULA acceptance. You turned it on right? Rooting just gives you superuser/admin access. It doesn't change the fact that the EULA is still there and you accepted it. You can't even start rooting the phone without agreeing to the EULA.

    The only way you can say that you didn't agree to Google's EULA is if you are using a Custom ROM. Only that is even more dangerous because for you're giving data access to some independent party.

    EDIT: I forgot about rooting from SD card files (does that still work post Lollipop?), but even then, if you're not using a custom ROM, you still have to go through the EULA accepting screen.

    So unless you tell me you're using a custom ROM, you accepted that EULA.

    And even IF you didn't accept that EULA through custom ROM, as I said, Google has the right to do with their services (Assistant in this case) as they please. Which the only answer to that is, don't use it. You own the phone, but you don't own the online servers Assistant uses to process your voice commands. Also Google Apps have their own individual EULA as well.

    False. My phone is rooted
    07-07-2018 08:37 AM
  15. Almeuit's Avatar
    So I'm brainwshed because I don't agree with you being upset about a calendar wanting permissions yet you are okay using a cell phone that tracks your communication and movement.

    Makes sense. Either way this thread is done. I see your goal is to mock and insult people for having a different opinion versus actually discussing. We love discussions but when someone wants to come and flaunt like they're smart and talk down to all calling them brainwashed, ignorant, etc simply because they think they're so superior... Well.. no thanks.

    As I always say you can go to Reddit for that and have fun .

    Answering 3 people:
    I predicted these answers. Re read my original post. "You can't stop them anyway, so who cares" I was pretty much bang on. Millennials are so predictable in their herd/ brainwashed mentality lol. But no, this doesn't cut the mustard. If I chose not to provide full unconditional access, that's my choice, I should still be able to use that feature, (as I did before) without providing access to extra things.
    Just because I have a smartphone, you imply that preemptively supplies my consent to full disclosure of private information?
    I reiterate, that just doesn't cut it. That defeatist submissive attitude infers that I might As well give Google whatever they want, because they "probably get it anyway"
    Sorry but that's s pathetic response.
    I have a smartphone but I still have my rights and should be able to exercise them freely, also you can bank on the fact that I've already taken several precautions, such as VPN, firewall, proxies and ghost servers, but I'm going on a tangent and that's irrelevant to the subject anyway.

    It's my right, not privilege to not provide that info, and I won't, this was a warning to people who follow your mentality of, "you can't stop them, so stop complaining"
    The whole business with zuckerberg and the data protection amendments had to do exactly with data misuse.
    Your problem, is that you wait for other people to fix these problems, but yourself only compound a problem and making it worse, by perpetuating ignorance and compliance.
    hallux likes this.
    07-07-2018 10:01 AM
  16. Ry's Avatar
    Millennials are so predictable in their herd/ brainwashed mentality lol.
    I'm 76 now, and I'd love to see another 25 years - and if I have to worry that Google may know where I am [they won't], so be it. Was it safer 200 years ago?
    You're such a millennial! lol
    07-07-2018 01:17 PM

Similar Threads

  1. Keep Google Maps Open?
    By JC8865 in forum Android Apps
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 07-06-2018, 07:01 PM
  2. Why my sharp Aquos S2 doesn't support Google lay store?
    By Android Central Question in forum Ask a Question
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 07-05-2018, 11:14 PM
  3. Why when I download pictures from google they dont go to gallery
    By Android Central Question in forum Ask a Question
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 07-05-2018, 05:55 PM
  4. How to create new local photos folder on device? (Google Photos)
    By Android Central Question in forum Ask a Question
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 07-05-2018, 04:18 PM
  5. How do I disable Pop Up ads from Google Play store?
    By Android Central Question in forum Ask a Question
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 07-05-2018, 01:47 PM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD