1. Android Central Question's Avatar
    Settings layout reformatted, background colors changed, download this to update that now, why the hell do I need chatbots? Why don't I have the choice and how do I get rid of it and why can't my phone just stay the way I had it?
    09-28-2018 10:38 AM
  2. B. Diddy's Avatar
    Welcome to Android Central! Which phone? Are you talking about a system update pushed over-the-air, or an update to an app you frequently use?

    With major system updates (i.e., from one Android version to the next), there are often changes to the user interface -- some minor, but some major. It comes with the territory. You can change some of it yourself by installing a 3rd party launcher like Nova, but some of it you can't change.

    I'm not sure what you mean by chatbots -- that wouldn't be a part of the system update.
    09-28-2018 11:37 AM
  3. Rukbat's Avatar
    Sometimes, an app update doesn't update, it just replaces the older version. Starting with the settings the developer decided on. That's on the developer, not Android. I've updated a lot of apps that don't reset anything. (Moving an app to an SD card can also cause that - the main body of the app, still in internal storage, can't find the block of settings that was moved to the SD card. Which is just one of many reasons to not move apps to SD cards.)
    09-28-2018 01:55 PM
  4. Mr Betz's Avatar
    No not apps, the mandatory OS software updates.
    Goes with the territory is a pretty crappy excuse. I've heard all the excuses for why updates are mandatory but none of them are good.
    I didn't have a problem with my messaging interface, but ope there it goes. Now it's a swipe left to right interface between messages, contacts, and chatbots, eliminating swiping to call from the message list as well.
    Minor yes, necessary or desired? Absolutely not.
    What are chatbots now anyways? A whole lot of 'who gives a crap' I'll never use. What's the default list of third parties involved? Cnn, walgreens, etc., oh it's just marketing BS built right in.
    Why my color scheme had to change too I don't know. Why the settings format changes every other update, who knows but it sure does waste a lot of time.
    Can I go back to how it was?
    Why not just give the option with these updates to adopt these features?
    I don't have the hassle of waking up to my house being remodelled to someone else's standard.
    09-28-2018 02:52 PM
  5. B. Diddy's Avatar
    I don't think it's an excuse. Google and device manufacturers aren't sending out system updates just to tweak the appearance. There are important security patches that roll out with each update, and each major version upgrade has a lot of improvements or added features that are both visible on screen and hidden under the hood. If everyone could choose to ignore system updates forever, you end up with (a) more devices at risk for security flaws, and (b) more fragmentation of the Android ecosystem, which has long been a major criticism of Android in general.

    As for UI refreshes, like it or not, this does go with the territory -- for anything, not just for mobile devices. If something looks the same for too long, critics complain about stagnation and boredom, and consumers start to lose interest. This is why companies change their logos, retail stores shift around their aisles and displays, movie studios "reboot" a franchise after just a few years, and Apple/Microsoft/Google modify their interfaces over time.

    Your phone's manufacturer (you didn't mention which phone) is most likely responsible for the messaging interface, unless you're talking about the Android Messages app.

    It's pretty difficult to roll back a system update. If you have a Samsung phone, you can try using Odin to flash the previous firmware: http://forums.androidcentral.com/amb...interface.html. Otherwise, if you really don't want to be subjected to any system updates (and therefore run the risk of outdated security), I suggest you focus on a phone that's about 2 years old, since most phones only get system updates for about 18 months at the most.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    09-28-2018 09:07 PM
  6. Rukbat's Avatar
    First, Android is built for the masses, not for you. Could I get it with all the useless stuff that *I'll* never use - even if you need it desperately? Of course not.

    Goes with the territory is a pretty crappy excuse. I've heard all the excuses for why updates are mandatory but none of them are good.
    None of them are good for you, but maybe many others wanted them.

    I didn't have a problem with my messaging interface, but ope there it goes. Now it's a swipe left to right interface between messages, contacts, and chatbots, eliminating swiping to call from the message list as well.
    Minor yes, necessary or desired? Absolutely not.
    Again, not for you, but for others, yes.

    What are chatbots now anyways? A whole lot of 'who gives a crap' I'll never use.
    Should I repeat myself again?

    Can I go back to how it was?
    No, many people like it the way it is.

    Why not just give the option with these updates to adopt these features?
    Because maintaining 2 versions is twice as expensive as maintaining one.

    I don't have the hassle of waking up to my house being remodelled to someone else's standard.
    Your house doesn't have to be maintained by the builder. Android and the apps do.

    Of course, if it's really that bad, you can just call your telephone company and ask them to run a line to your house and give you a nice F style phone. I'm sure you wouldn't have a problem using something that was new when World War 2 broke out.
    09-29-2018 10:22 PM
  7. Mr Betz's Avatar
    I get the security aspects but the interface, control, customized settings, etc.?

    Customers complain of stagnation, when? People that hardly live outside their device? So it is said but not seen, the cry for updates and new crap is almost solely from the company, not the consumer, and most sources for customer wants of "new crap" is company owned.

    I get the aesthetics part, sure. For advertising.... not product usage on the consumer level.

    I get that as well, my phone has had at least three updates this year alone though....
    09-30-2018 07:47 AM
  8. Rukbat's Avatar
    Until you've spent 10 years developing and maintaining a product, discussing developing and maintaining a product with you isn't going to be a discussion - you have only one side of he picture - you need to understand both sides.

    No, I'm not an Android developer (although I have diagnosed a bug in Android for them, to get my phone fixed), but I have developed and maintained products, so I know how it looks from the other side.

    Android has a function not used on many computers - an app may use a process contained in another app. So you like app 1 and use it all the time, but app 2 is just taking up space you could use for something else, and you want to get rid of it. But app 1 uses a function in app 2, so if you get rid of app 2, app 1 stops working.

    You want "user's choice" about features in an app? That would mean that at least all Google apps would have to have that sort of feature - otherwise they'd be inundated with "if you did it for that one, why can't you do it for this one?" So everything in every app that's not required for the app to run at all has to be made selectable by the user. That would take 3 or 4 full development teams, That would change Android from an open source project to a paid app. The manufacturers would have to buy the rights to each version and update. Who do you think is going to pay for that - the manufacturer? No, we are. Someone figures out how to hack into your phone via Bluetooth (as happened a few years ago). No problem, Google came up with a fix quickly. It went into the next security patch. Now you have to pay your manufacturer to get the patch. Or your phone is still vulnerable to something that's been fixed. You complain to the manufacturer. They tell you that it's been fixed in the last update. And you complain that you're not going to pay for updates, you should get them for free. Why? The manufacturer doesn't get them for free any more, why should you? Paying for the phone gives you free updates for 2 years? Tell that to your car manufacturer. Safety features, yes. Convenience features? I've never seen it.

    And making each feature user-selected makes the app larger (code takes space). So instead of a 32GB phone being barely usable now, we'd need 64GB phones as a minimum. (And you'd probably complain that the apps were taking up too much space.)

    As for "new crap is almost solely from the company, not the consumer", remember, most of the apps you probably use regularly aren't developed by Google, they're developed by independent developers, so email them. Google apps have almost no advertising. (Almost none? Or none at all? I'd have to go through them all to see, but I can't recall any. And don't blame the manufacturer or the carrier from adding "crap" that Google didn't.)

    Updates, if you read the information about them, is mostly security patches. You want a phone subject to every new form of virus someone dreams up? Most users don't. There's only 1 Android update a year. (With minor changes and improvements as far as most people are concerned included with some patches - as needed.) Before complaining about Android being updated "3 times this year alone", read the update data - here. See why each one was issued. The only Android update in 2018 - as opposed to security patches - was the August update, from Oreo to Pie.

    Granted, a lot of us complain about some new "feature". No more individual text tones? I haven't heard from anyone who likes that. But either someone at Google does (and he's probably going to get overruled if enough people send feedback about it), or it was needed because of something that allowing individual tones interfered with. (Remember here - Android Messages is a work barely in progress. We're seeing it in its most primitive form.)

    There are a couple of valid points you make, but most of them aren't. If you don't like Android, you can learn to develop your own apps and they'll work exactly the way you want them to. Or you can use an iPhone and make the same complaints to Apple. (BTW, we're not Android, we're not Google, we're users just like you. Some of just know how to do things that others can't figure out and we help them. If you want to complain to Google, go to Settings, search for feedback, and complain to them. That may get something done. Complaining here can't. Even if we agree with you, we can't change Android.)
    B. Diddy, belodion and STARGATE like this.
    10-01-2018 03:17 PM

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