What is the legal standpoint regarding "Telegram" app delete everywhere feature

[Keith70]

I'm questioning the legality regarding the new "Delete everywhere" feature on "Telegram"
Incase users are unaware this basically gives the sender and/or receiver within a messaging window the opportunity to not only delete the messages from their device but from the recipients too.
In my view this cannot be legal, as I have not given app permissions to anyone I've messaged. For them to then be able to remove an entire message string from my device/account is a direct invasion of my privacy and rights, and amounts to what I can only describe as tampering. "Telegram" have basically allowed the recipients partial access to my device/account in a roundabout way.
I have deleted my "Telegram" account and uninstalled the app from my phone. Any thoughts ?

 

[anon(8453378)]

Are you sure that the message is actually on your physical device and not in the cloud?

 

[Javier P]

Re: What is the legal standpoint regarding "Telegram" app delete everywhere feature

This new feature was added with version 5.5. In older versions you had two days to delete for anyone any message that you sent. With the new version there's no time limit and you can also delete, from both ends, the messages that you received. This new option only works on personal chats and not in groups.

There has been some controversy about this feature but personally I don't care too much. I you want to keep some messages your best option could be saving them in the 'Saved Messages" chat or grab some screenshots. There's some logic after this move and I don't see any legal problem with it.

 

[Keith70]

Wolfie410
Hi not sure 100% where its physically stored so to speak but my objections are based on it's still within my account (somewhere) I've not given permission for it to be removed if you get my meaning.

 

[Javier P]

Wolfie410
Hi not sure 100% where its physically stored so to speak but my objections are based on it's still within my account (somewhere) I've not given permission for it to be removed if you get my meaning.

The old 'Delete for xxxx' option worked in a similar way but only allowed deleting sent messages, not received ones. Same unsent feature is available in most IM apps, like WhatsApp for example.

 

[Keith70]

Re: What is the legal standpoint regarding "Telegram" app delete everywhere feature

Hi Javier P
Thanks for your reply.
My issue is the non permissions side of it being removed from my account regardless of where it is stored.
The recipient is removing their content but they are also removing mine. MINE being the operative word. They have no right to do this Neither should I be allowed to do it to them.
Its not so much about saving messages and personally auto destruction within a sensible timeframe would be preferred as that is neutral and software generated.
This is going to get very messy for "Telegram" it doesn't feel right to me !

 

[Javier P]

Re: What is the legal standpoint regarding "Telegram" app delete everywhere feature

Hi Javier P
Thanks for your reply.
My issue is the non permissions side of it being removed from my account regardless of where it is stored.
The recipient is removing their content but they are also removing mine. MINE being the operative word. They have no right to do this Neither should I be allowed to do it to them.
Its not so much about saving messages and personally auto destruction within a sensible timeframe would be preferred as that is neutral and software generated.
This is going to get very messy for "Telegram" it doesn't feel right to me !

I understand what you mean and this new option has generated some controversy. My point is that a similar process happened before and in different IM apps. After I sent a message with Telegram or WhatsApp I can still delete it on both sides. This has been around for a long time and it didn't arise any suspicion.

 

[Mike Dee]

I don't see a legal issue

 

[Keith70]

Hi Mike Dee
Thanks for your reply.
I always compare these issues with the physical world but perhaps its different electronically ?
If I post an envelope through someone's letter box and then decide I want it back, I have to knock the door and politely ask.....if I were to start rooting around in the letter box with a view to retrieving it with a grabber or stick I'd probably fall foul of the law !
Forgive my sense of humour but you can sort of see where I'm coming from?

 

[Javier P]

Hi Mike Dee
Thanks for your reply.
I always compare these issues with the physical world but perhaps its different electronically ?
If I post an envelope through someone's letter box and then decide I want it back, I have to knock the door and politely ask.....if I were to start rooting around in the letter box with a view to retrieving it with a grabber or stick I'd probably fall foul of the law !
Forgive my sense of humour but you can sort of see where I'm coming from?

I don't think this a good comparison and it's still missing the main point, the unsend feature included in most IM apps. This option is mostly used when you sent a message to the wrong chat or out of regret Suddenly you decide that you want to delete it and after a couple of clicks it will be removed in BOTH devices. Simple, useful and never heard of people complaining about privacy issues. Let me tell you, I've used this several times, because the wrong chat, of course

The new Telegram rules are wider but based on the same principles.

 

[Keith70]

Hi Javier P
It was a light hearted joke at a serious issue.
I get what you're saying and don't disagree or have an issue with an unsend setting per se.
I use "Line" app also and this will allow me to unsend any message .......until it is opened.
I have no issue with someone unsending or even removing totally there last line of words to me.
But I can't get my head around EVERYTHING being removed I just personally feel that this is a step to far and also open to abuse.
I would as I mentioned in an earlier post much prefer to see an auto destruct set by the administrator for a sensible time frame and a message unsend option (last message only) for the sender. It's a real shame that "Telegram" have taken this stance and the reasons they've used it don't stack up as people can screenshot anyway. Telegram was the best, way better than WhatsApp but now I use neither.
I think we beg to differ on this but I respect your view and thankyou for you opinion.

 

[Mike Dee]

Hi Mike Dee
It was a light hearted joke at a serious issue.
I get what you're saying and don't disagree or have an issue with an unsend setting per se.
I use "Line" app also and this will allow me to unsend any message .......until it is opened.
I have no issue with someone unsending or even removing totally there last line of words to me.
But I can't get my head around EVERYTHING being removed I just personally feel that this is a step to far and also open to abuse.
I would as I mentioned in an earlier post much prefer to see an auto destruct set by the administrator for a sensible time frame and a message unsend option (last message only) for the sender. It's a real shame that "Telegram" have taken this stance and the reasons they've used it don't stack up as people can screenshot anyway. Telegram was the best, way better than WhatsApp but now I use neither.
I think we beg to differ on this but I respect your view and thankyou for you opinion.

I think you meant to reply to Javier

 

[Keith70]

Hi Mike Dee
Sorry... my apologies I've corrected my reply but can't change the quote.. I misread the send

 

[Keith70]

As an afterthought I can see this becoming the school bullies choice app by far. This is just one example of how this new policy/feature will be abused. I've just been reading through the one star negative comments on Google playstore and there are a lot of unhappy users on there all on about this, and this alone. Delete your own message history and unsend your last message........fine, but deleting yours and recipients complete history ! This is going to create one big mess !

 

[Mike Dee]

Why would anyone be in a chat with a school bully on Telegram?

 

[Keith70]

Mike Dee
I'm not lol. I'm relating it to others and all the Facebook/Instagram stuff about that in the media lately.
Developers need to think of these things and see further than the nose on their faces.
The difference with Facebook and Instagram with the above issue is that even if the post is taken down by the individual the content trace is still there. Also check out the one star negative reviews on Google playstore, I'm not the only person who has an issue with this.
However, "Telegram" have said by their own admission, "Once it's gone, its gone".
I cannot believe how others cannot see the down side and potential problems that this is going to create.
I've started using 'Signal" and it seems like a whole load better. Good reviews too.

 

[Mike Dee]

Mike Dee
I'm not lol. I'm relating it to others and all the Facebook/Instagram stuff about that in the media lately.
Developers need to think of these things and see further than the nose on their faces.
The difference with Facebook and Instagram with the above issue is that even if the post is taken down by the individual the content trace is still there.
However, "Telegram" have said by their own admission, "Once it's gone, its gone".
I cannot believe how others cannot see the down side and potential problems that this is going to create.
I've started using 'Signal" and it seems like a whole load better. Good reviews too.

If there's a downside it won't impact my life. Everyone has to make informed choices. I have to use it as part of a group I belong to.

 

[Javier P]

Mike Dee
I'm not lol. I'm relating it to others and all the Facebook/Instagram stuff about that in the media lately.
Developers need to think of these things and see further than the nose on their faces.
The difference with Facebook and Instagram with the above issue is that even if the post is taken down by the individual the content trace is still there. Also check out the one star negative reviews on Google playstore, I'm not the only person who has an issue with this.
However, "Telegram" have said by their own admission, "Once it's gone, its gone".
I cannot believe how others cannot see the down side and potential problems that this is going to create.
I've started using 'Signal" and it seems like a whole load better. Good reviews too.

I think we really understand your concern and we are just trying to explain the downsides of this new feature. Facebook and Instagram are social apps intended to share and make public personal content. Telegram is mainly an IM app and the delete for everyone feature is only available on one-to-one chats. They are completely different things.

I can understand that this new feature can raise concerns if you are using Telegram for business, for example, and need to keep the record of a chain of messages. In this case people should consider using a different app or save those messages and files outside the personal chat. There are many different options to solve this issue quite easily. On a personal note sometimes I use Telegram for, let's say, serious exchanges and depending on the case I save a copy inside Telegram or ask for confirmation of the exchange via email, for example.

We are not trying to convince you to keep using Telegram. As Mike said we all have to make informed choices and if Signal, great app and platform by the way, suits your needs just go for it. I prefer Telegram for many reasons, one of them its options to organise big groups, mutch better than most IM apps.

The only thing that we keep saying is that this delete option is not a security or privacy problem just a potential inconvenience if things go sour with any of your contacts and you need proof of what happened on that particular chat.

On the upside it could be a very useful tool if that contact decided to make public your personal exchange in order to harm you or publish a completely out of context snip. There are at least two sides to see that new feature