DROID BIONIC Jelly Bean Update
- Thread starter Ry
- Start date
Don't worry....5" edge to edge. Maybe.I meant monster in terms of what it's going to bring to the table. Moogle isn't screwing around on this one. It's the first Moto phone where Google was involved in the design. If that doesn't excite you guys, not much will.
Oh I'm excited. It'll probably be my next.
But engineering-wise, Motorola had/has a homerun with the RAZR M/i design. I would hate to have them lose that by playing the size game everyone else is playing.
I really hope that this "X" is a Google phone that still has the soul of Motorola.
SamuriHL
Well-known member
This rumor will never die because fans of stock won't let it.
Upgrades won't come any quicker IMO because the skin (vs. baked in) on top would still have to be certified to work. Example: if Sense was just a launcher, HTC would still have to verify that the Jelly Bean version would work with the supposed Key Lime Pie version. Updates still won't be immediate.
SamuriHL
Well-known member
This rumor will never die because fans of stock won't let it.
Upgrades won't come any quicker IMO because the skin (vs. baked in) on top would still have to be certified to work. Example: if Sense was just a launcher, HTC would still have to verify that the Jelly Bean version would work with the supposed Key Lime Pie version. Updates still won't be immediate.
Actually this is more than rumor. Google wanted it to work like this but the stupid carriers won't allow it. The idea is that the skins could be released via an update mechanism like the play store. The mfg would get the main OS done without their skin, and those that wanted it could update to a vanilla OS....with the benefit of getting it sooner. Those who want the skin could either hold off til it's done, or they could get it when it's ready. The carriers are what killed this idea. Morons.
I'd like to think OEMs killed this as well. That instantly removes parts that make a Samsung phone a Samsung phone.
If I was running HTC, Motorola, Samsung, or LG, I'd want my phones to look and feel different than my competitors. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one, but I have to think the OEMs want both their hardware and software to stand out regardless if carriers force them to or not.
SamuriHL
Well-known member
You fail to realize the bigger issue. Skins are great. Security problems aren't. When it takes you a year to get an update onto a phone (cough cough ICS Bionic anyone?) that's not a good situation. Security problems are becoming a bigger and bigger issue for Android. We need updates sooner. If we're waiting for an update because the company has to ensure compatibility with their skin, well, that's not good for anyone. I'd prefer they forego the skin, get us the update, and update the skin after that's done. One of the biggest reasons I'm going with an unlockable phone in the future is so I don't have to wait for the MFG's to do updates. I'm going for stock AOSP...security fixes will be a LOT faster that way.
IIRC, the phone was not 9 months late in being released. It was more like 2 or 3. The phone was announced at CES in January and was supposedly going to come out in June/July. June/July to the September release isn't 9 months.
9 months after the announcement, we got a completely different phone. The Bionic at CES was Tegra-powered. Issues with Tegra and LTE caused them to scrap it.
IMO, security problems are what should drive the speed of updates. Curious, which security issues have been addressed in each Bionic update? Security is an issue and should be on the OEMs to update/patch/fix with the carriers ASAP.
That still doesn't change the thought that OEMs want their products to be different. After all, that's part of the openness and beauty of Android. Anyone can take the AOSP source and build their own product. If Google starts mandating things like "no UI changes" or "make your interface an easily removable skin", Google might as well take Android and close it off.
In the end, and this is the bigger picture IMO - "skinned" Android or not Google is still getting what it wants out of the end/final-users.
SamuriHL
Well-known member
Every version of the OS has new security updates. JB focused a lot on security. Most people focus on what they can see and give a hearty "meh big deal" when compared to ICS. However, in terms of security, quite a bit was done under the covers to protect from rogue apps. They scan apps you install in JB. You wanna know what would differentiate an MFG right now? Not a skin. That's just nonsense that 99% of users either don't care about or actually wish they could remove. What would differentiate a MFG is to provide timely updates. Something closer to a nexus experience. Imagine how popular Moto phones would be if they dropped a new OS update 6 weeks after Google publishes it. They have great hardware. No one cares all that much about motoblur, however. They do care that updates are NOTORIOUSLY slow. Why do you think Google killed webtop? It's because that added to the amount of time it took to get updates out. SIGNIFICANT time. Motoblur isn't as bad, but, it still takes time. Fortunately Moto was somewhat smart and made motoblur universal. So they only have to do it once per OS version and it works on all phones with minor tweaking. Still, I'd rather kill that and get a plain Android phone that simply rocks hardware wise. What made the OG Droid great? The skin? Oh right, it was a GED. No skin.
Yet it's still considered one of the best phones in history. How come that is if it had no skin? Great debate guys! Love hearing both side of this one. I am personally in the "no skin out of the box" camp. If hardware manufacturers want to differentiate, do it with the hardware, not the skin. I'd rather have the new OS updates more quickly.
Every version of the OS has new security updates. JB focused a lot on security. Most people focus on what they can see and give a hearty "meh big deal" when compared to ICS. However, in terms of security, quite a bit was done under the covers to protect from rogue apps. They scan apps you install in JB. You wanna know what would differentiate an MFG right now? Not a skin. That's just nonsense that 99% of users either don't care about or actually wish they could remove. What would differentiate a carrier is to provide timely updates. Something closer to a nexus experience. Imagine how popular Moto phones would be if they dropped a new OS update 6 weeks after Google publishes it. They have great hardware. No one cares all that much about motoblur, however. They do care that updates are NOTORIOUSLY slow. Why do you think Google killed webtop? It's because that added to the amount of time it took to get updates out. SIGNIFICANT time. Motoblur isn't as bad, but, it still takes time. Fortunately Moto was somewhat smart and made motoblur universal. So they only have to do it once per OS version and it works on all phones with minor tweaking. Still, I'd rather kill that and get a plain Android phone that simply rocks hardware wise. What made the OG Droid great? The skin? Oh right, it was a GED. No skin.
The OG DROID was a great seller mostly because it had a killer marketing campaign behind it. The rest of the Verizon DROID line (outside of maybe the DROID RAZR) never received that kind of love. Look at the Nexus One, Nexus S, Galaxy Nexus, and Nexus 4. Critically acclaimed phones by the Android community, but nowhere near the popularity of say a Galaxy S3.
The reverse argument could also be made. "99%" don't really care about stock Android or OEM interfaces. The general buying public has hardly any idea of the Android version codenames. The general buying public hardly cares about removing the OEM's customizations to get back the "stock" Android look. They just need a phone that plays Angry Birds and connects to Facebook.
I'll draw some parallels to hardware and micro USB charging. All phones not made by Apple use micro USB charging. This has been the case for years now. I was at Starbucks last week and overheard this:
Samsung phone user: "Hey do you happen to have a Samsung charger or cable?"
Motorola phone user: "Nope. I just have the cable for my phone."
I stepped in here and mentioned that they both follow a standard and the Motorola micro USB cable will work on a Samsung phone.
These users are the kinds of users that I expect to not care about stock Android. Unfortunately, they're buying power far exceeds the buying power of you and me - the ones that actually do care.
Again, I respect your opinions and truly appreciate the help, guidance, and insights you give but any OEM going stock Android won't instantly solve their Android sales problems (HTC, Motorola, LG, Sony).
SamuriHL
Well-known member
I see both sides of it. I'm not opposed to skins, necessarily. I just think that it's ridiculous to hold up an update so they can work on their skin. Release it later when it's done. There's no reason that the non-skinned version of an update couldn't be offered as an "advanced update". Meaning you go in and set a setting on your phone to receive non-skinned updates, and you get them. Those that don't set that option will only get the update when the skinned version is ready. Phones would only be sold with the skinned version. I don't see how this is a bad idea. Everyone wins with that model. Yet the carriers complained. Ok, well, ONE carrier complained....
Sure, one carrier may have complained, but I still have trouble believing that OEMs were okay with the concept that their interfaces (and the work they put into them) like TouchWiz, Sense, and MotoBlur (pre-Google) could be easily removable.
SamuriHL
Well-known member
The problem with this is that because of all these stupid customizations, it costs the MFG's a lot of money to update phones. The Thunderbolt just last week got ICS. Think about that for just a minute. They JUST GOT ICS. The issue is people don't care about updates....right up to the point where a massive security hole F's them royally. Then the public will be screaming and asking why those security holes weren't patched. This hasn't happened, so, MFG's and carriers have been beyond apathetic about getting updates out. During the 18 month life cycle of an Android phone, you'll be LUCKY to see one major OS update. Most phones never see 2. And it's unheard of for a phone to get 3 OS updates. So they need to do one of two things. Sell a phone as ONE OS only and continue to patch that OS as new security problems are found, or, they need to update those phones to newer versions of the OS that have been patched sooner. Running an out of date OS with security holes is asking for trouble. They're just lucky nothing massively bad has happened so far, but, it's bound to happen. When a million android phones get hacked due to a security hole, then you'll hear the screams. At that point, skins won't mean a damn thing to anyone. The lack of updates are going to kill this OS WAY faster than lack of customizations from MFG's IMO.
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I can only speak for Moto on this one. I know for a fact they want blur to die. VZW wouldn't let them.
Great conversation. What about a few months ago Samsung had that big security problem? They seemed to get that patch out fairly quickly. Is it because they didn't update the whole system? Or maybe because they are Samsung and can push their weight around?
Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2
Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2
SamuriHL
Well-known member
Ry and I simply have a difference of opinion on this one. Not a big deal. As for Samsung, they didn't update the OS, they patched the existing one AFAIK. And that's certainly one way to go. What you have to remember is there's limited resources at these companies. The more phones they release, the more they have to support. So if a security issue comes forward that needs to be patched, they have to do it on numerous phones. That takes an enormous amount of resources. And usually it takes months while those phones are vulnerable. Samsung was kind of lucky in that it was their pinnacle phone that had the issue. You'll also notice Samsung releases 1 or 2 big phones per year and that's it. That allows them to react quicker than someone like Moto who's typically had half a dozen or more phones per year. Google realized that and are taking a different approach in the future. Cough watch the X phone.....multi carrier.....cough cough
As for Samsung, they didn't update the OS, they patched the existing one AFAIK. And that's certainly one way to go. What you have to remember is there's limited resources at these companies. The more phones they release, the more they have to support. So if a security issue comes forward that needs to be patched, they have to do it on numerous phones. That takes an enormous amount of resources. And usually it takes months while those phones are vulnerable. Samsung was kind of lucky in that it was their pinnacle phone that had the issue. You'll also notice Samsung releases 1 or 2 big phones per year and that's it. That allows them to react quicker than someone like Moto who's typically had half a dozen or more phones per year. Google realized that and are taking a different approach in the future. Cough watch the X phone.....multi carrier.....cough cough I'm really glad moto is going that direction, it just makes sense. Too bad it took them this long to figure it out. With google behind them they have a lot more resources to work with. Now, if only they could fold time so may came faster... As excited as you are about it now, i can only imagine what they can refine in three months...
Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2
Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2
SamuriHL
Well-known member
Yea, I agree. But hopefully we'll have a new JB build in a few weeks to tide us over. I'm told 98.72.18 should be it, but, I don't think that build exists yet so I'd say we're a bit away from having a release being pushed.
I hate when I'm waiting for something that doesn't exist... I'm assuming there is a road block in front of the RAZR still anyways.
As for the argument above, I see both sides. Some OEM's, like HTC and especially Samsung are trying to put their own stamp on their hardware. I think it's no secret that Samsung is trying real hard to differentiate themselves from everyone else, including Google. I won't be surprised if they completely get rid of Android in the next two to three years. They now have the following and power. I'm not sure what good it will do them, but I still wouldn't be surprised. That's why I think the xphone is going to be real crucial to google/moto. They need to start establishing a brand that has the same power as Samsung. I read once that "Samsung is Android." While I hate to agree, they really are the power behind the push right now, and they have a lot of leverage. It's fun watching this all pan out. As long as patent wars don't get in the way, watching technology develop is pretty cool.
As for the argument above, I see both sides. Some OEM's, like HTC and especially Samsung are trying to put their own stamp on their hardware. I think it's no secret that Samsung is trying real hard to differentiate themselves from everyone else, including Google. I won't be surprised if they completely get rid of Android in the next two to three years. They now have the following and power. I'm not sure what good it will do them, but I still wouldn't be surprised. That's why I think the xphone is going to be real crucial to google/moto. They need to start establishing a brand that has the same power as Samsung. I read once that "Samsung is Android." While I hate to agree, they really are the power behind the push right now, and they have a lot of leverage. It's fun watching this all pan out. As long as patent wars don't get in the way, watching technology develop is pretty cool.
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