Single core or 512meg RAM - Which is more limiting?

[rdearth53]

I wish. I've been going on April 28th based on BMX's poems. But, it may be delayed, depending on which device he is referring to both in his poems and his post.

http://forum.androidcentral.com/819099-post28.html

I don't believe that he was talking about the Bionic because he said both have been delayed and may end up skinned like the rest. This excludes it for the Bionic is already known to be running the MotoBlur skin, so I think he was referring to the stock android devices that should be coming.


Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

 

[DolfanCole]

I don't believe that he was talking about the Bionic because he said both have been delayed in may and spend like the rest. This excludes it for the Bionic is already known to be running the MotoBlur skin, so I think he was referring to the stock android devices that should be coming.


Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

I hope you're right. For my own benefit, I'll take your interpretation.

 

[rdearth53]

Ok, edited that last post. Hope it makes more sense......darn you tiny virtual keyboard!

 

[BlueBiker]

Well, seeing as the main problem with my D1 was the amount of RAM (256MiB), I'm going to say that more RAM will probably be better in the long run. Dual core isn't going to do anything until apps come out that take advantage of it. I'm willing to bet that by the time there's apps that come out that are multithreaded and really benefit from it, the amount of RAM they take up will end up being too much for phones with "only" 512MiB. Now obviously, Android is good about cleaning out unused apps and such from memory ... so you'll probably experience decent performance but with redraws/pop in when switching apps.

Very well said. I don't really mind that after two years my D1 is 20-50% slower overall than current phones, but what I do mind is when there are 5+ second pauses when it's completely out of available RAM and needs to swap out some apps just to switch back to another running one. If you interrupt a browsing session to respond to an email, it should never have to reload the page upon return.

The just-released Firefox 4 needs 512MB to install. If you have that running at the same time as an audio player and news reader and email app, it's going to start having the same swapping problems.

Lack of enough CPU power gives a somewhat degraded experience, but running out of RAM can be like hitting a brick wall. Thrashing is when a resource-starved system grinds to a halt because it spends all of its time swapping things in and out instead of accomplishing useful work.

FWIW, there are diminishing returns. A year from now 768MB would probably be a dramatic boost from 512MB, 1GB would be slightly better, and a hypothetical 2GB probably wouldn't offer much at all to average users.

 

[Treghc]

Quick note.....DDR2 512 on bionic.....case people forget think 1GB ram if terms like DDR2 make no since, as that is computer grade ram the bionic has. Gingerbread flux in my measly 512 1ghz omap X. I am sure the engineering department at Motorola is going to make sure it cab handle the tegra zone app store. Don't take a X or TB to that market, unless you want to watch it choke.

You are way, way off on that one, bud.

512MB of DDR2 is nowhere near the equivalent of 1GB of DDR.
512MB is 512MB... through and through. The Droid Bionic will only hold 512MB of temporary RAM storage space. The difference is that DDR2 reads and (mainly) writes much faster than DDR.
What remains to be seen is just how much of an impact that improved r/w speed actually is. Most apps won't benefit from it much at all. It's going to take the larger, expensive gaming apps and such that actually need to constantly read and write large chunks of data in order for DDR2 to actually be beneficial.
One of the downfalls of the Android OS is how many differing hardware pieces there are in the different devices. Creating an app that's only capable of running on DDR2 isn't really worthwhile because you're limiting your market.

DDR2 is great, but I don't foresee if being nearly as impactful as most people hope it will be. At least, that is, not until the majority of phones begin housing the tech.

 

[Johnly]

I never said ddr bud. Go back and re read things huh, when your perspective of what I said lines up, I will happily engage in some intellectual discourse

 

[Johnly]

Btw, seems to me a wiki is in order for those just reading. Ddr vs ddr2.....enjoy
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DDR2_SDRAM

 

[BobR]

Okay, okay. Let's remain friendly here. Misunderstandings are common with text communications, especially in a forum when people are skimming posts really fast. No harm, no foul, right?

Btw, they did a study, and even married couples couldn't tell whether or not their spouse was being sarcastic in a text message. If they can't tell that, how much more is it hard in a forum with strangers on the other side!

So... back to the thread topic. Thanks everyone for the great discussion. It's really great to get the thoughtful comments.

 

[Johnly]

Okay, okay. Let's remain friendly here. Misunderstandings are common with text communications, especially in a forum when people are skimming posts really fast. No harm, no foul, right?

Btw, they did a study, and even married couples couldn't tell whether or not their spouse was being sarcastic in a text message. If they can't tell that, how much more is it hard in a forum with strangers on the other side!

So... back to the thread topic. Thanks everyone for the great discussion. It's really great to get the thoughtful comments.

Ha ha, to your very point....you see "undfriendlyness" when all he said was I was way off. I am titally ok with that we even call eachother bud no one is being disrespectful, thanks though. My girlfriend and I text often and you are right, it is hard to tell sometimes.

Back on topic. The TB and Bionic will perform great, nothing to sad about if you get either one. I wish the title of this thread correctly identified ram type of the bionic....would elucidate from monomers.....but since it does not, imagine two highways, they are both the same size, one travels at 50 and one at 100. In one hour, what highway has been the most proficient at flow? So, to answer your question, a single core parallels nicely with flash ram, even ddr. A duel core will need more ram, but I bet engineers recognize this by adding ddr2. Bottom line, and overall tone of what everyone says, ultimately, ram is the bottle neck and limiting factor, but we have yet to see mobile software on linux choke on the ram of high end devices like the TB.....so yeah, you are fine, and unless you plan on going past 2 years in a phone with 512 ddr ram, I don't foresee any limiting factors considering you aren't a power user of crazy games with demanding performance that aren't even available much less. That's my .02

 

[BlueBiker]

imagine two highways, they are both the same size, one travels at 50 and one at 100. In one hour, what highway has been the most proficient at flow?

But that's not what DDR2 will do for you. True it will have twice the bandwidth per clock rate, but the clock rate will almost certainly be dramatically slowed down on the initial varieties of DDR2 in shipping phones. Not only that, but the latency will be worse with DDR2 than it was with DDR. I don't know any specifics, but I'd be surprised if early DDR2 is more than 10-25% faster than DDR.

So, to answer your question, a single core parallels nicely with flash ram, even ddr. A duel core will need more ram, but I bet engineers recognize this by adding ddr2.

Flash is irrelevant to this discussion. And a dual-core does not inherently need more RAM. A dual-core system may benefit from dual-channels of RAM (so that each core's RAM appetite can be satisfied), but that says nothing about the overall quantity of RAM. When running small to medium apps in a hypothetical dual-core dual-channel phone, 2x256MB might actually be considerably faster than 1x1GB.

What an earlier poster suggested is that technology marches on many fronts at the same time, so that as dual-cores become widely available, higher quantities of RAM will be also -- and developers normally write programs for whatever is the commonly available hardware in user phones.

Bottom line, and overall tone of what everyone says, ultimately, ram is the bottle neck and limiting factor, but we have yet to see mobile software on linux choke on the ram of high end devices like the TB.....so yeah, you are fine, and unless you plan on going past 2 years in a phone with 512 ddr ram, I don't foresee any limiting factors considering you aren't a power user of crazy games with demanding performance that aren't even available much less. That's my .02

Well... if you're not a gamer, and you don't load large apps, and you don't tend to run many small apps at the same time, then yes the Bionic will still be a fantastic phone in a year, maybe even two. But that's not what I'd consider a ringing endorsement!

 

[Johnly]

But that's not what DDR2 will do for you. True it will have twice the bandwidth per clock rate, but the clock rate will almost certainly be dramatically slowed down on the initial varieties of DDR2 in shipping phones. Not only that, but the latency will be worse with DDR2 than it was with DDR. I don't know any specifics, but I'd be surprised if early DDR2 is more than 10-25% faster than DDR.
I have no idea what manufactures will do with the bit rates on ddr2 ram, though I highly doubt they will reduce the rate, as they are already better on sipping less power at full capacity than flash or ddr. FYI, DDR2=3200 MB/s, and DDR=1600 MB/s, while flash ram is even less on transfer rate. Sure, both are at 100MHz frequency, but DDR2 has a clock multiplier at the bus, and I have never heard of a case where a manufacture paid for this feature to then restrict it. I am not sure there is any practicality in doing that you know? Again, it is already taxing the battery less, and on lower volts with the improved bus


Flash is irrelevant to this discussion. And a dual-core does not inherently need more RAM. A dual-core system may benefit from dual-channels of RAM (so that each core's RAM appetite can be satisfied), but that says nothing about the overall quantity of RAM. When running small to medium apps in a hypothetical dual-core dual-channel phone, 2x256MB might actually be considerably faster than 1x1GB.When talking ram, flash ram is always relevant. The reason I bring it into the context of our discussion, is that many high end androids operate at 1GHz on the core, while tapping anywhere from 300ish to 512 flash ram. My droid X for example. Yes, it is running GB and it flies man, not stuttering in the slightest on google's latest OS, so yes, 512flash ram can run nice, and accommodate 1GHz processors. That said, ddr ram at 700ish looks real good right? Context of why I bring that up. Yes, with multiple cores taxing the ram symbiotically, it needs to be fast to keep up, especially at the speed of the bus, That is why ddr2 fits so nicely on dual core devices. Motorola knows that, and so does apple. Expect that to be the new hardware norm for the next year. Hardware always needs software to catch up, and eventually, it will

What an earlier poster suggested is that technology marches on many fronts at the same time, so that as dual-cores become widely available, higher quantities of RAM will be also -- and developers normally write programs for whatever is the commonly available hardware in user phones.



Well... if you're not a gamer, and you don't load large apps, and you don't tend to run many small apps at the same time, then yes the Bionic will still be a fantastic phone in a year, maybe even two. But that's not what I'd consider a ringing endorsement!

I disagree, the Bionic will be a great phone out of the gate. It has the tegra app store (My X, or your TB would choke on the games being developed there) catering to hardcore mobile gamers. You are right, as far as regular users go, our TBs, Xs, and bionics will ALL get the job done....just expect the one with the dual core to be faster on that DDR2 bus, and better on the battery because the physics of the hardware allow it to. I have yet to see Motorola unleash a device that has battery problem threads pop up. If the bionic has a bad battery, moto may as well shoot its foot, though considering the hardware, that wont happen, and I bet it may do LTE ALL day

 

[BlueBiker]

I disagree, the Bionic will be a great phone out of the gate. It has the tegra app store (My X, or your TB would choke on the games being developed there) catering to hardcore mobile gamers. You are right, as far as regular users go, our TBs, Xs, and bionics will ALL get the job done....just expect the one with the dual core to be faster on that DDR2 bus, and better on the battery because the physics of the hardware allow it to. I have yet to see Motorola unleash a device that has battery problem threads pop up. If the bionic has a bad battery, moto may as well shoot its foot, though considering the hardware, that wont happen, and I bet it may do LTE ALL day

Heh, you made me go read all about LPDDR1/2 and you've made a bunch of good points. Both varieties commonly run at 166MHz, while LPDDR2 will eventually hit 533MHz -- yowza! And I found no concerns about LPDDR2's latencies, in contrast to desktop DDR2. Also I had no idea the performance of flash RAM was in the same ballpark.

I'll stand by my previous comments about RAM size and the (now canceled?!) Bionic, but thanks for correcting me about the other issues! And I sure hope you're right about LTE being usable all day on shipping phones.

 

[Smitty_82]

While not a tech "expert", I think where the Bionic (or dual core/DDR2) will shine is the multi-tasking. From my personal expirence, when I am using a RAM heavy app (game/video), I am not switching back and forth a lot. I would rather have the DDR2 to help with the speed when I am going from Tapatalk to the browser to Gmail to Handcent. As long as it can handle that well, I am all in. Only time will tell.