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  1. TgeekB's Avatar
    Rugged industrial build is a separate thing from PKB. You can have one or the other, or both.

    For example:

    Samsung Galaxy XCover Pro (rugged, no PKB)

    Unihertz Titan (both rugged and PKB)
    My point is, like the pkb, it is a very small number of consumers who want those features.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    09-30-2020 05:25 PM
  2. the_boon's Avatar
    My point is, like the pkb, it is a very small number of consumers who want those features.
    Yes, that is an undeniable fact.

    Hopefully they will produce a device that will entice both the die hard fans, but more importantly also some curious casual users that left BB in the past but are willing to go back to one if the overall package (and price) appeals to them.

    I don't think anyone believes PKB's are gonna be the next hot thing again...but we just want them to still exist, whether with a BB logo or someone else's.
    09-30-2020 05:30 PM
  3. Tsepz_GP's Avatar
    Rugged industrial build is a separate thing from PKB. You can have one or the other, or both.

    For example:

    F(x) Tec Pro 1 (not rugged, has PKB)

    Samsung Galaxy XCover Pro (rugged, no PKB)

    Unihertz Titan (both rugged and PKB)

    And yes, finally Apple is doing one thing right with their phones design if they have completely flat screens and frame edges.
    Apple have never really done curved screens, something I truly love on my 11 Pro Max especially when using it alongside my Huawei P40 Pro with its dramatic Waterfall display, I tend to prefer Apples flatter+wider screen versus how all the android manufacturers keep going narrower, curved and taller, although taller does have its benefits on some websites and other content.

    Apple screens have been typically flat with a 2.5D curve on the edge of the border to make it smooth when swiping, Apple tend to pay a crazy amount of attention to detail on such things.

    Ether way I'm excited to see what OM bring, although my excitement does come with a hint of caution to.
    the_boon likes this.
    09-30-2020 05:31 PM
  4. TgeekB's Avatar
    Yes, that is an undeniable fact.

    Hopefully they will produce a device that will entice both the die hard fans, but more importantly also some curious casual users that left BB in the past but are willing to go back to one if the overall package (and price) appeals to them.

    I don't think anyone believes PKB's are gonna be the next hot thing again...but we just want them to still exist, whether with a BB logo or someone else's.
    I just think they need to avoid alienting people by making it too industrial looking. I'm sure you agree, for it to be successful, it needs to draw a large crowd.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    09-30-2020 05:33 PM
  5. the_boon's Avatar
    I'm sure you agree, for it to be successful, it needs to draw a large crowd.
    I do, in the sense that it needs to look modern, up to date.
    But substituting a stupid glass back for a rubberized one isn't really gonna alienate anyone.
    If they really want to capture consumers, it needs to be a slider with a bezel less edge to edge screen. It can accomplish that even with flat frame edges.
    09-30-2020 05:57 PM
  6. TgeekB's Avatar
    I do, in the sense that it needs to look modern, up to date.
    But substituting a stupid glass back for a rubberized one isn't really gonna alienate anyone.
    If they really want to capture consumers, it needs to be a slider with a bezel less edge to edge screen. It can accomplish that even with flat frame edges.
    A slightly textured back is different from an industrial phone like the ones you mentioned. I think that would be fine.
    That doesn’t mean that aesthetics doesn’t influence consumer choice as it certainly does.
    09-30-2020 06:01 PM
  7. the_boon's Avatar
    ones you mentioned. I think that would be fine.
    That doesn’t mean that aesthetics doesn’t influence consumer choice as it certainly does.
    It definitely does. it's probably why glass backs are not only still a thing, but virtually everywhere in the $500 and up range.

    A good balance of modern yet functional aesthetics would be an S10 sized (~155mm tall) slider with flat edges, flat screen, rubberized back, yet with a completely bezel less OLED display.
    For the notification LED, just implement it through software so that a handful of pixels light up around the front camera cutout.

    It should be modern, but also have its identity, instead of looking exactly like a Galaxy.
    09-30-2020 06:13 PM
  8. Mike Dee's Avatar
    My point is, like the pkb, it is a very small number of consumers who want those features.
    And at the end of the day it's impossible to accommodate everyone for every desired feature without creating too many derivative models to produce and stock.
    TgeekB and Laura Knotek like this.
    09-30-2020 06:19 PM
  9. the_boon's Avatar
    And at the end of the day it's impossible to accommodate everyone for every desired feature without creating too many derivative models to produce and stock.
    The question then is, should they try to make a jack-of-all-trades device that's "okay" in most areas without being amazing in any given category, or should they focus all their efforts on one or two specific features and leave the rest as an afterthought
    09-30-2020 06:23 PM
  10. Mike Dee's Avatar
    The question then is, should they try to make a jack-of-all-trades device that's "okay" in most areas without being amazing in any given category, or should they focus all their efforts on one or two specific features and leave the rest as an afterthought
    The market place has evolved and will continue to evolve regardless of what we as individuals prefer.
    TgeekB likes this.
    09-30-2020 06:26 PM
  11. the_boon's Avatar
    The market place has evolved and will continue to evolve regardless of what we as individuals prefer.
    With the recent emergence of alternate form factors, I can finally say that I'm excited for the smartphone market to evolve.

    Maybe they're starting to realize that simply slapping more cameras and reducing tiny amounts of bezel and calling it a day doesn't cut it anymore.

    In 2007 we were at a turning point for mobile devices, it seems like we're very near the next one.
    J Dubbs likes this.
    09-30-2020 06:30 PM
  12. Morty2264's Avatar
    That was it. It was interesting.
    Absolutely! I had an acquaintance who had one and I always wanted to see what it was like to use one.
    09-30-2020 06:33 PM
  13. TgeekB's Avatar
    The market place has evolved and will continue to evolve regardless of what we as individuals prefer.
    This is fact. There are plenty of things I don't like but I certainly don't expect companies to design a phone based only on my personal wants and needs. I buy the ones that are closest.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    09-30-2020 06:34 PM
  14. TgeekB's Avatar
    Absolutely! I had an acquaintance who had one and I always wanted to see what it was like to use one.
    I would describe it as awkward. When closed it was thick. When open it felt flimsy. I just never got used to it.
    Laura Knotek and Morty2264 like this.
    09-30-2020 06:36 PM
  15. dangerousfen's Avatar
    With the recent emergence of alternate form factors, I can finally say that I'm excited for the smartphone market to evolve.

    Maybe they're starting to realize that simply slapping more cameras and reducing tiny amounts of bezel and calling it a day doesn't cut it anymore.

    In 2007 we were at a turning point for mobile devices, it seems like we're very near the next one.
    Boon, I think you will be very disappointed. The involvement is now in foldables not PKB. I must admit, I don't go for them because they are very expensive and, in my opinion, too fragile. But this is the way forward for the industry. I hope, for your sake, that the new project does come up with a device that suites you but your new vision is certainly not PKB's.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    09-30-2020 06:42 PM
  16. the_boon's Avatar
    Boon, I think you will be very disappointed. The involvement is now in foldables not PKB. I must admit, I don't go for them because they are very expensive and, in my opinion, too fragile. But this is the way forward for the industry. I hope, for your sake, that the new project does come up with a device that suites you but your new vision is certainly not PKB's.
    There are so many more ways to implement a PKB other than having it stationary below the screen as seen with most Blackberry's... manufacturers can get really creative.

    Yes, there is a HUGE advantage to having a tactile, accurate keyboard and at the same time a full display that's not being obstructed by a giant virtual keyboard.

    Since said stationary candy bar PKB is not seen as modern by the industry, it calls for other creative ways to get it done. Sliding, add-on, swiveling, etc

    No more excuses such as "omg moving parts" when talking about a simple spring loaded mechanism when they're making devices with extremely fragile folding OLED displays and selling them for $2000.
    J Dubbs likes this.
    09-30-2020 06:50 PM
  17. TgeekB's Avatar
    Mobile devices are moving away from keyboards. Touch screen, voice control, AI, etc. I’m willing to bet smartphones, as we know them, won’t be around in 10 years. We certainly aren’t moving back to pkb’s anytime soon. We’ll see where this goes but I suspect it will go the way of previous attempts.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    09-30-2020 07:28 PM
  18. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    I do, in the sense that it needs to look modern, up to date.
    But substituting a stupid glass back for a rubberized one isn't really gonna alienate anyone.
    If they really want to capture consumers, it needs to be a slider with a bezel less edge to edge screen. It can accomplish that even with flat frame edges.
    Most people use a case anyway, and sliders are much more difficult to design cases that fit and are not too bulky.

    I've been using clear cases for the past 4 years, so I have protection without hiding the appearance of the phones. I also have not had a plain black phone since the Blackberry Bold 9700. My phones since then have been: Nokia Lumia 900 (blue), Nokia Lumia 920 (red), Moto X (blue), Moto X Pure Edition (blue), LG V20 (silver) and Samsung Galaxy S10+ (blue).
    10-01-2020 03:57 AM
  19. the_boon's Avatar
    Most people use a case anyway, and sliders are much more difficult to design cases that fit and are not too bulky.

    I've been using clear cases for the past 4 years, so I have protection without hiding the appearance of the phones. I also have not had a plain black phone since the Blackberry Bold 9700. My phones since then have been: Nokia Lumia 900 (blue), Nokia Lumia 920 (red), Moto X (blue), Moto X Pure Edition (blue), LG V20 (silver) and Samsung Galaxy S10+ (blue).
    The Priv's cases were fine (especially the Incipio one) but obviously they were open at the top to allow for the screen to slide up.

    There was even an official 2-part sliding case from BB which completely protected it, but looked kinda ugly.

    The idea is to not drop the phone while the keyboard is open lol
    10-01-2020 07:24 AM
  20. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    And at the end of the day it's impossible to accommodate everyone for every desired feature without creating too many derivative models to produce and stock.
    That’s been the OEM conundrum always especially with PKB and sliders. The VKB simplifies hardware decision to one variable, size, which is still debated.....

    It’s not just that you double or triple your variables just by the PKB and slider forms, but you’re not going to land NEW users from competitors in enough quantities to make the endeavor worthwhile.
    TgeekB likes this.
    10-01-2020 11:57 AM
  21. TgeekB's Avatar
    We have to remember that these companies have tons of data telling them what people want. They will not take chances and lose money for being stupid. If anything they will move forward with things like smart watches, glasses, etc.
    10-01-2020 12:31 PM
  22. the_boon's Avatar
    We have to remember that these companies have tons of data telling them what people want. They will not take chances and lose money for being stupid. If anything they will move forward with things like smart watches, glasses, etc.
    When slab sales start to fall dramatically due to lack of innovation, it forces them to start thinking outside the box.

    Foldables, sliders, etc are part of that "out-of-the-slab" risk taking.

    Since the beginning of the explosion of the all-touch smartphone, I feel like their main goal was to fit the biggest, brightest display with the least amount of bezels.

    Now that they've reached that goal, time to start experimenting elsewhere, because adding more and more camera lenses only work for so long before people want something more.
    10-01-2020 12:39 PM
  23. TgeekB's Avatar
    When slab sales start to fall dramatically due to lack of innovation, it forces them to start thinking outside the box.

    Foldables, sliders, etc are part of that "out-of-the-slab" risk taking.

    Since the beginning of the explosion of the all-touch smartphone, I feel like their main goal was to fit the biggest, brightest display with the least amount of bezels.

    Now that they've reached that goal, time to start experimenting elsewhere, because adding more and more camera lenses only work for so long before people want something more.
    Outside the box is moving forward, not backwards.
    You are not paying attention if you think sliders are going to be the next big thing. I don't own a smart watch but cannot deny they are the future.
    10-01-2020 12:45 PM
  24. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Outside the box is moving forward, not backwards.
    You are not paying attention if you think sliders are going to be the next big thing. I don't own a smart watch but cannot deny they are the future.
    The retail business from both software and hardware is bundling just like super expensive value meals. The main reason watches or automobile systems are so important will be even more is the way it locks the user in more and more to Apple or Google for instance. I don’t own a smart watch either but my two of my five kids have one and I’m sure the other three at some point will too. The health aspects seem the draw for them as young athletes..
    10-01-2020 12:57 PM
  25. TgeekB's Avatar
    The retail business from both software and hardware is bundling just like super expensive value meals. The main reason watches or automobile systems are so important will be even more is the way it locks the user in more and more to Apple or Google for instance. I don’t own a smart watch either but my two of my five kids have one and I’m sure the other three at some point will too. The health aspects seem the draw for them as young athletes..
    I agree. As this merge continues it will bring more and more features we never dreamed of. Health is a big one.
    10-01-2020 12:59 PM
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