I need more control

[xchange]

Last 6 posts are getting really off topic you two.

 

[ultravisitor]

It's funny when people think that stopping their use of some Google services will enable them to hide from Google--especially when they use Android phones.

It's even more funny when people think there's privacy on the internet.

 

[Paisley]

It's funny when people think that stopping their use of some Google services will enable them to hide from Google--especially when they use Android phones.

It's even more funny when people think there's privacy on the internet.

There is so much in between all or nothing.

 

[A895]

Last 6 posts are getting really off topic you two.

Well then, to get away from google on android:

-Disable all google apps
-Download amazon app store
-???
-Profit from the google free experience

To go further delete google account all together. Encrypt phone and use DuckDuckGo or possibly bing for searches. Saw on Crackberry forums how some people avoid google all together by using a blackberry and just using Box or Droodbox for cloud storage purposes and they use only local storage for everything else. Questions on how to avoid google is best asked on Crackberry, on WPCentral they will only suggest Microsoft stuff (I had a thread on it before).

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[A895]

It's funny when people think that stopping their use of some Google services will enable them to hide from Google--especially when they use Android phones.

It's even more funny when people think there's privacy on the internet.

I understand where you are coming from but it is possible to have a google free experience on Android. See my above post.

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[A895]

Yes. Very much so. I am able to communicate with friends and family on a whim now.

I am old enough to remember a time when long distance prices made calling relatives expensive. Now I am able to get in touch with them on a whim. Reconnect with people I haven't seen in decades.


Who told you that this is not possible while using social networks?

It's not a mutually exclusive thing. You can have both.

Not to derail the topic OP (sorry).

But, I increasingly see people spend more time online instead of hanging with friends. Some people (I have personally known) all they did was be in Facebook and gave that actual illusion of having actual friends when in fact they didn't. I will end it there as not continue tonderail the thread, again OP I apologize for that. Jeff, if you want to continue this conversation I have an active thread also in the General Discussion area on the same topic.

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[ultravisitor]

There is so much in between all or nothing.

You keep saying that, but I think the appearance to you of the way your data is handled is likely very different from the way it is handled by companies behind the scenes. I mean, you know about the Facebook Shadow Profiles, right? Those contain data that users never even gave to Facebook. For instance, let's assume you have Facebook profile: any time one of your friends used a Facebook feature like "Find My Friends" (or whatever it's called) and/or included any of your information somewhere on the site, Facebook collected that information and added it to YOUR Shadow Profile--even though you never gave it to them. So, you have a Shadow Profile at Facebook that contains all sorts of your information that you never gave to them and possibly never intended to give to them. And they did all of that without your consent and without you ever knowing. They even build such profiles for people who don't even use the site.

What makes you think Google is any different?

 

[xchange]

Nobody here is claiming that we're trying to totally eliminate these compromises to privacy. We already know that's impossible outside of completely unplugging, and honestly I would think that was a.safe assumption to make without requiring mention. This about mitigation.

 

[ultravisitor]

Nobody here is claiming that we're trying to totally eliminate these compromises to privacy. We already know that's impossible outside of completely unplugging, and honestly I would think that was a.safe assumption to make without requiring mention. This about mitigation.

Right. I'm saying don't be so naive and think you have as much control over your data as you think you do. Facebook has even said that you don't own the data they get from you via third party--additional phone numbers, email addresses, home/work addresses, etc; under their policy, that data belongs to third parties, even if it's about you. They even get that kind of information about you from people who aren't even on your friends list at Facebook. And for those people who don't even have Facebook profiles? Too bad. Facebook has their data, too.

I used to be completely paranoid about my data. Now, though, I've chosen to just let Google have my data since they are, at the very least, using it to make my life a bit easier. To me, I may as well since I would only be deluding myself if I thought I was able to hide.

 

[Paisley]

You keep saying that, but I think the appearance to you of the way your data is handled is likely very different from the way it is handled by companies behind the scenes. I mean, you know about the Facebook Shadow Profiles, right? Those contain data that users never even gave to Facebook. For instance, let's assume you have Facebook profile: any time one of your friends used a Facebook feature like "Find My Friends" and/or included any of your information somewhere on the site, Facebook collected that information and added it to YOUR Shadow Profile--even though you never gave it to them. So, you have a Shadow Profile at Facebook that contains all sorts of your information that you never gave to them and possibly never intended to give to them. And they did all of that without your consent and without you ever knowing. They even build such profiles for people who don't even use the site.

What makes you think Google is any different?

Absolutely, how a company handles what you give them is very important. Privacy is not just the data people take or give, but the what happens with that data and information. For example, the youtube comments/twitter comments thing. It's all public, all of it. Some people who write comments use their full and last name (or at least maybe they didn't used to, but now that's what google is pushing, but....). So an employer does a search, now they're outted. Not private. For those who use an alias, the information is still public, but is fairly anonymous, which is it's own level of personal privacy. Which is why the idea of well, you made a public statement so therefore you're already out there so it doesn't matter just isn't applicable in many life situations.

When i was on FB i mostly had friends from a specific project, which is why i joined, that and another group. I set my settings so that it worked for me, yet i still had photos up, my "friends" could share them, and fb knew exactly who i voted for, what types of things i believe, etc. I have an ID number there same as i do with google. but that doesn't mean all my privacy is dead and that a guy i meet tmrw will see what i posted 3 years ago during an election and that's because i managed how i interacted with facebook and it's why I continue to reject Google's "upgrade" offer of attaching my youtube to my gmail. At some point after joining facebook, even though they didn't change how and how much information they collected, as time went on there were enough mechanisms on the internet through social sharing that now when i go to, say, financial times, my "fb friend" profiles come up on that page and lets me know what articles my friends have read. Well, that's a lot of public information, and it's actually being pushed out, it's sharing people's personal and private time that they didn't voluntarily share with someone, even if it's not secret, so I had to make changes so that no one will get pop ups of what article i just read. That is too personal for my particular taste, even if someone asked me, hey, did you read that, i wouldn't hide it, it's a matter of what i want publish, pushed out, sent, shared, etc. Still not hiding from the zuckerman crew, haven't taken my photos down but my friends don't see everytime i read a paper, which articles i'm focusing on, etc. SOME privacy.

Every retail corporation and their mother knows what i've bought from the time i first started purchasing to just about everything i haven't bought yet, but no retailer with all my shopping data is sending photos of me to my friends from my phone book saying "PAISLEY JUST BOUGHT THIS!! LOOK! CHECK IT OUT!". i just don't want them sending all the deets of my life to my life connections, nor do i want it the other way around, photos of my friends being sent to my phone as advertisments "CHECK OUT WHAT I BOUGHT YOU MIGHT LIKE IT TOO" I write tons of reviews, and the public reads them, except those are generally anon. Oh this is a great cat brush. Well, it's public, but my people i've called aren't now being sent the info that i have a cat. Or whatever other things come out when we write reviews or posts, or whatever. Facebook has a profile for me, and that won't change. And my fb connections are very specific, I manage that. And now that google is more like facebook, I and others have to change the way we interact with them. I don't put everything in my life on FB, that's dumb. I don't manage my schedule there, put my credit card there, my to do list, and my friends, and every photo i take, etc, etc. Infact, i never did all that with google either. They had my email contacts, that's it. Fb had my fb contacts, that it's. And then as soon as Google became social sharing+emails+personal phone contacts, exactly what i mentioned about they 'hey, look what this person you know did', happened. I see that you wrote that is minor. That's minor to you. You see may un-initiated information sharing among people in your personal in real life contacts, as eh, so what. Look what visor bought, this that the next thing, he read this, read that, and here everyone in his contact book, look, he did this too. That doesn't work for me. I don't consider that 'oh well so what, just minor, i'll let them keep doing it cuz it's inconvenient for me to make changes'. If a person doesn't want sharing among their contacts, or fb "friends", or G+ whatevers, it's their information they need to manage. Does that mean google will ONLY have what i offer them, of course not, but they certainly don't have everything unless you give it to them. Also once you go ahead with handing it over with a 'yes here' check mark, there's some terms you've agreed to [we may do this], but stuff they take on their own they won't be sending to my friends or posting as advertisements for example, those they don't tend to help push to the web. So yes, what they do with what they have makes a difference in the type of things people keep "private" in their life. I could choose that awesome "upgrade" google keeps pushing over and over on people even when they turn it down 20x over, to put my first and last name on my old youtube account. Well, there's only one way to get them to stop pushing that, (and they do push it, de-link, you'll see, aggressive is an understatement). And the only way to keep from being one button away from identifying yourself on youtube, 20x over, is now i have to stop using youtube on my first/last name account, even though they're still separated by name. It's not trying to hide, it's managing what is kept private and what is not. Google is indeed no different except FB reach is very limited because they are only social media and everything i did with them in the past was based on that, as is my twitter because when i signed up for them I added just want i would put on a social media site, very little. Google's reach is now far greater than FB, my friend's G+ profile photos are now pushed to my phone. YOU may like that. I find it intrusive. And my sister, who is terrible at managing information, now everytime someone puts her in their phone her photo gets sent out to them. Well, duh sissy, shoulda managed your information. Google took it upon themselves to make that helpful service available to people who enjoy a social media life mix experience. It's different than just a regular gmail service. But now, it's sorta all becoming one and the same and they ARE making it difficult to keep them separate, right down to my phone book. And we all know google is not sharing her reviews with me, and her photo with her contacts, to be helpful. So a person who still likes a little bit of anonymity OR privacy, in their life would be wise to reign in what they offer up to google. It doesn't mean we're hiding. And yes, the fact that there are so many workarounds needed to keep your own contacts, doesn't really make me want to send them over everything i have, even under the idea of "well, they have it anyway, so just make just let them sync it already", that is just crazy to me. I never gave them all my phone numbers in the past, or my schedule, or my to do list, etc. Why would I now that they're turned social media hub?

 

[ultravisitor]

i just don't want them sending all the deets of my life to my life connections, nor do i want it the other way around, photos of my friends being sent to my phone as advertisments

If you don't want to see pics of your friends used in advertisements, then tell them to fix their privacy settings and tell them to post privately. That's all on them. Maybe you should forward your wall-of-text rant to them. Just a suggestion.

 

[Paisley]

If you don't want to see pics of your friends used in advertisements, then tell them to fix their privacy settings and tell them to post privately. That's all on them. Maybe you should forward your wall-of-text rant to them. Just a suggestion.

Right, people managing their privacy by changing their settings, or switching off that particular service if it's gets too intrusive or puts out too much information. I prefer change my own settings to manage my information though, it really only works that way. lol. Not syncing is an easy one (well, should be).

 

[ultravisitor]

I never gave them all my phone numbers in the past, or my schedule, or my to do list, etc. Why would I now that they're turned social media hub?

I understand what you mean about not wanting your first and last name on YouTube, but I think you're taking the paranoia a bit too far--or are you a member of organized crime and have significant reason to hid...keep private whom it is you are in contact with? Good god, Google isn't going to turn you into an advertising machine unless you let them. Just turn off Shared Endorsements and never comment publicly or +1 anything and don't let anyone send you any notifications.

And remember that you're in other people's contact lists, too, so their info can still be pushed to you as ads. Are you seriously going to start micromanaging the contact lists of other people?

 

[tgp]

I've chosen to just let Google have my data since they are, at the very least, using it to make my life a bit easier. To me, I may as well since I would only be deluding myself if I thought I was able to hide.

That's where I'm at. It's impossible to be online at all and hide. At least Google gives you some benefits for having your data. Might as well be them as someone else.

 

[Paisley]

I understand what you mean about not wanting your first and last name on YouTube, but I think you're taking the paranoia a bit too far--or are you a member of organized crime and have significant reason to hid...keep private whom it is you are in contact with? Good god, Google isn't going to turn you into an advertising machine unless you let them. Just turn off Shared Endorsements and never comment publicly or +1 anything and don't let anyone send you any notifications.

Right, managing your privacy settings, and choosing services that minimize what gets pushed out to others. Use services you want, not those you don't. They're offering me a service that publishes comments, and sends things photos to friends of what i did that week (like FB, social media connection stuff), and this and that, those are good, for people who like those services. Some people don't really want those services, so there's no need to be sending your phone book out to companies for no reason. If you just want email, join an email service. I did, gmail. Okay. My emails and my personal contacts and numbers are different things and since they're not giving me anything i need why would i send it over and tell them not to do anything with it. I like Google maps, so they locate me, I like that services, they offer me restaurant info of nearby stuff. Great. That's an exchange because i want that related service. I turn my locator on and off. But I don't need a social sharing service at all, no reason to be sending them over my social network information.

 

[xchange]

Right, managing your privacy settings, and choosing services that minimize what gets pushed out to others. Use services you want, not those you don't. They're offering me a service that publishes comments, and sends things photos to friends of what i did that week (like FB, social media connection stuff), and this and that, those are good, for people who like those services. Some people don't really want those services, so there's no need to be sending your phone book out to companies for no reason. If you just want email, join an email service. I did, gmail. Okay. My emails and my phone numbers are different things and since they're not giving me anything i need why would i send it over and tell them not to do anything with it. I like Google maps, so they locate me, I like that services, they offer me restaurant info of nearby stuff. Great. thanks. That's an exchange because i want that related service.

Bingo, thank you, you completely get what I'm saying.

 

[JeffDenver]

I increasingly see people spend more time online instead of hanging with friends.

Hasn't been that way with me. Just the opposite. It's allowed me to stay in contact with friends and family that I normally would not hang out with.

As for the privacy thing... This stuff is 100% voluntary. You do not have to use Google services with Android. They don't work like Apple does. With Google it's all opt out if you want.

 

[A895]

Bingo, thank you, you completely get what I'm saying.

You don't want the extra that comes with google services. Now I get ya. I feel the same way. If I want to leave a honest review for an app I love why do I need to join google plus?

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[Paisley]

Hasn't been that way with me. Just the opposite. It's allowed me to stay in contact with friends and family that I normally would not hang out with.

As for the privacy thing... This stuff is 100% voluntary. You do not have to use Google services with Android. They don't work like Apple does. With Google it's all opt out if you want.

that's what i like facebook for and why i keep it around. My more tangential relationships that would otherwise be lost. I'm not a big fb use but it still keeps me in touch with those people. I like that.

 

[xchange]

Hasn't been that way with me. Just the opposite. It's allowed me to stay in contact with friends and family that I normally would not hang out with.

As for the privacy thing... This stuff is 100% voluntary. You do not have to use Google services with Android. They don't work like Apple does. With Google it's all opt out if you want.

True to some degree, but Google Search itself is such a deeply embedded part of Android now, if you get rid of it you lose a ton of functionality. Speaking just for myself, I would use another platform before an AOSP android. There's 3 main things I disagree with right now. The read sms permission in the Search app, having Gmail open to Google Plus users as the default option, and ability to record voice conversations. Two of those have already happened, and only one of them can be turned off.