Let's talk about cameras (or recommend me a phone)

[frooglepoopillion]

So, I've had the HTC One (M7) for roughly a year and a half but I am getting the itch to upgrade. The iPhone6 release seriously has me considering going over to the "dark side" for a number of reasons and I was hoping that the community could give me some alternatives to what I am looking for.

Here are the reasons I am considering jumping over to Apple:
1) Guaranteed updates, for better or worse. I like the idea of having a phone for a few years and knowing that it will be supported for that time. Maybe not all features are usable but it's better than nothing. iOS 8 supports the iPhone 4 which came out over 4 years ago. That is quite the ROI.

2) The camera is still very good. I'm not necessarily a camera snob but I can't for the life of my understand why it's so hard for most Android phones get it right. The pictures aren't bad, per say, but my experience with the Nexus line cameras pale in comparison to the iPhone. I could be swayed to the LG G3 but my concern is that when Android L is released it will get no updates and essentially be obsolete (see point 1). The same could be said about the Sony phones. It just seems that in order to get a decent camera you have to sacrifice in other areas. I love the concept of Moto X (2014) but by all accounts the camera is so-so and the battery is questionable. I likely will never own a Samsung device simply because of Touchwiz and I have had bad experiences with them in the past. Please correct me if I am wrong though, I am open to suggestions.

Those are my main two sticking points although I really do like the fingerprint scanner concept and the Health stuff they have (although I know Google is working on their own) as well as some of the other things Apple has planned. There is always give and take with each phone but I'm struggling to find a phone that meets or exceeds these points on Android's side. As much as I would love an Experia Z2/3 or LG G3 I just don't trust the company or the carrier with updates. The nice thing about the Nexus and Apple devices is they control the updates for better or worse. Even though Apple released a broken update today they could discontinue it at will and a fix is likely incoming.

To be clear, the M7 is a fine phone but it is beginning to show it's age a bit (the battery isn't as great as it used to be) and HTC is still a little slow with the updates. I'm mostly just going off reviews of the other Android phones and my friends/family iPhone 6 impressions so any real world experience would be appreciated. Thanks! O

 

[frooglepoopillion]

TL;DR

I want a phone with a comparable camera to the iPhone with good update support either directly from Google or timely roll outs from manufacturers. I know this narrows it down to mostly Nexus and Moto devices but any input is appreciated

 

[codyoehl]

I'd wait for the Nexus 6, looks like it could be a beast

Posted via Android Central App with my Samsung Galaxy S5

 

[someguy01234]

I think the Nexus 6 will be made by Motorola and it will have an average camera and average battery life with 16gb of storage for base model.

Not many manufacturers are great with update for longer than 1 year period except Nexus and Motorola. If you are on Verizon maybe check out the Droid Turbo. Some phones like the S5 and G3 have good camera, but their updates are only guarantee for a year and not frequent either.

If you don't mind a big phone, maybe an Oppo Find 7, which you can easily install CyanogenMod and doesn't require root or break warranty. Or if you don't need great quality in lowlight situation, the OnePlus. Right now I like the details from those two camera most, but they do not have the level of R&D compared to bigger companies like HTC, Samsung, LG, they may lack OIS or best post processing for a wide variety of situation.

The Moto X 2014 have the same camera sensor as the G3, they just don't have the same software technology.

Your best bet is to hope for the S5 or G3 to have a Google Play edition, but maybe they are doing away with it.

Sony is worse with updates.

 

[KarlDag]

I'm exactly in the same boat, except my phone is the G2. I've been going from custom Rom to custom Rom to have a good UI but can't find something satisfying in stability AND UI. Paranoid Android was well on its way to be great but the dev stopped working on it...

I live Nexus phones and could even deal with the N5's battery life but the camera is a no go for me. I almost pulled the trigger on an iPhone 6 but they're so expensive off contact... And now with bendgate...

I've decided to use my G2 with the G3's ROM for now and wait for something else or an eventual good deal on an iPhone 6 in a few months. Interested in the nexus 6 but we already know Motorola can't make a decent camera...

 

[Daniel P1]

So, I've had the HTC One (M7) for roughly a year and a half but I am getting the itch to upgrade. The iPhone6 release seriously has me considering going over to the "dark side" for a number of reasons and I was hoping that the community could give me some alternatives to what I am looking for.

Here are the reasons I am considering jumping over to Apple:
1) Guaranteed updates, for better or worse. I like the idea of having a phone for a few years and knowing that it will be supported for that time. Maybe not all features are usable but it's better than nothing. iOS 8 supports the iPhone 4 which came out over 4 years ago. That is quite the ROI.

2) The camera is still very good. I'm not necessarily a camera snob but I can't for the life of my understand why it's so hard for most Android phones get it right. The pictures aren't bad, per say, but my experience with the Nexus line cameras pale in comparison to the iPhone. I could be swayed to the LG G3 but my concern is that when Android L is released it will get no updates and essentially be obsolete (see point 1). The same could be said about the Sony phones. It just seems that in order to get a decent camera you have to sacrifice in other areas. I love the concept of Moto X (2014) but by all accounts the camera is so-so and the battery is questionable. I likely will never own a Samsung device simply because of Touchwiz and I have had bad experiences with them in the past. Please correct me if I am wrong though, I am open to suggestions.

Those are my main two sticking points although I really do like the fingerprint scanner concept and the Health stuff they have (although I know Google is working on their own) as well as some of the other things Apple has planned. There is always give and take with each phone but I'm struggling to find a phone that meets or exceeds these points on Android's side. As much as I would love an Experia Z2/3 or LG G3 I just don't trust the company or the carrier with updates. The nice thing about the Nexus and Apple devices is they control the updates for better or worse. Even though Apple released a broken update today they could discontinue it at will and a fix is likely incoming.

To be clear, the M7 is a fine phone but it is beginning to show it's age a bit (the battery isn't as great as it used to be) and HTC is still a little slow with the updates. I'm mostly just going off reviews of the other Android phones and my friends/family iPhone 6 impressions so any real world experience would be appreciated. Thanks! O

I find it funny whenever they talk about Apple offering updates the fact that most of the new updates are already available on Android phones that are not getting updated anymore.

 

[frooglepoopillion]

I find it funny whenever they talk about Apple offering updates the fact that most of the new updates are already available on Android phones that are not getting updated anymore.

I'm not sure what you mean by this? Most phones I have had stop updates after a year or are so late with updates that it is a moot point. The benefit with Apple and Nexus devices are that theoretically you can have the updated device for several years before needing to update as opposed to updating every year with a slightly different phone running a newer OS that was "unsupported" on the older version either by hardware limitations or far more likely carrier/manufacturer limitations.

I just like the idea of potentially having a device for a few years that will be up to date with the latest software instead of having to play the waiting/guessing game of if Samsung/HTC/LG/Sony/whoever or the carrier is going to push out Andoid L.

 

[JeffDenver]

Here are the reasons I am considering jumping over to Apple:
1) Guaranteed updates, for better or worse. I like the idea of having a phone for a few years and knowing that it will be supported for that time. Maybe not all features are usable but it's better than nothing. iOS 8 supports the iPhone 4 which came out over 4 years ago. That is quite the ROI.

iOS8 does not support the iPhone 4. It supports the iPhone 4S. And does so very poorly. The oldest device to support iOS8 in a practical sense is the iPhone 5.

iOS8 update breaks cell connectivity on iPhone 6 - iOS 8.0.1 Is Breaking Cellular and TouchID on New iPhones, Don't Update

iOS8 causes major lag on iPhone 4S - https://twitter.com/search?f=realtime&q=ios 8 LAG -uptake -report&src=typd and Don't Put iOS 8 On Your iPhone 4S

iOS8 has wifi and battery life bugs - Some iOS 8 users report sluggish Wi-Fi, shorter battery life - CNET

By contrast, Kitkat only enhanced the phones that got it...any phone that could run ICS could run BETTER with kitkat. It uses fewer resources.

The camera is still very good. I'm not necessarily a camera snob but I can't for the life of my understand why it's so hard for most Android phones get it right. The pictures aren't bad, per say, but my experience with the Nexus line cameras pale in comparison to the iPhone.

That has not been my experience. On macros in particular, the nexus is better. (Bottom image is Nexus 5, top is the iPhone 5S)



The iPhone consistently has excellent cameras, but they are never at the top.

I could be swayed to the LG G3 but my concern is that when Android L is released it will get no updates and essentially be obsolete

...by Android standards. It will still have many more features than the best iPhones. And likely will for a long time.

You do not need OS updates on Android to update things like Maps or Email or Browsers. Even the Nexus One will run these things. The G3 will always have that awesome camera, and will always have that QHD display.

To be clear, the M7 is a fine phone but it is beginning to show it's age a bit

Every Android phone out right now is better than the M7 in every way. Even the Moto X. Often significantly so.

 

[frooglepoopillion]

iOS8 does not support the iPhone 4. It supports the iPhone 4S. And does so very poorly. The oldest device to support iOS8 in a practical sense is the iPhone 5.

iOS8 update breaks cell connectivity on iPhone 6 - iOS 8.0.1 Is Breaking Cellular and TouchID on New iPhones, Don't Update

iOS8 causes major lag on iPhone 4S - https://twitter.com/search?f=realtime&q=ios 8 LAG -uptake -report&src=typd and Don't Put iOS 8 On Your iPhone 4S

iOS8 has wifi and battery life bugs - Some iOS 8 users report sluggish Wi-Fi, shorter battery life - CNET

By contrast, Kitkat only enhanced the phones that got it...any phone that could run ICS could run BETTER with kitkat. It uses fewer resources.


That has not been my experience. On macros in particular, the nexus is better. (Bottom image is Nexus 5, top is the iPhone 5S)

View attachment 138367

The iPhone consistently has excellent cameras, but they are never at the top.


...by Android standards. It will still have many more features than the best iPhones. And likely will for a long time.

You do not need OS updates on Android to update things like Maps or Email or Browsers. Even the Nexus One will run these things. The G3 will always have that awesome camera, and will always have that QHD display.


Every Android phone out right now is better than the M7 in every way. Even the Moto X. Often significantly so.

Your input is appreciated but you can't seriously be telling me that he Nexus 5 camera is better than the iPhone 6 camera. The N5 camera is average at best and the iPhone 5s/6 has been shown to consistently be near the top in most tests. Also of course the newer phones are better than the M7, that's not really a debate but it's still an amazing device and IMO it is better than the M8 in several ways (the M8 camera is a joke).

Updates always risk the chance of breaking devices. I am used to this with other things and that is a risk with many similar services. However, the debate would be is it better the get these updates and swift fixes than get nothing at all or sluggish fixes? My point is that at I would at least like the option to update to the latest OS even if the phone can't handle it physically. If iOS 8 is sluggish on the 4/4s so be it but to me it's better to receive consistent fixes and updates than every 6 months or not at all.

I'm curious about the N6 but my experience with those devices has been subpar compared to my M7.

 

[JeffDenver]

Your input is appreciated but you can't seriously be telling me that he Nexus 5 camera is better than the iPhone 6 camera.

Thats not the iPhone 6...it's the iPhone 5S. The Nexus 5's contemporary.

The N5 camera is average at best

The Nexus 5 camera is the most underrated camera in the industry right now. It's low light is better than the Galaxy S5. It's day pictures are better than the M8. The G2 and G3 are the only Android cameras I would consider better in all areas. I have not seen iPhone 6 samples, but I would expect them to be better as well, given that they were released almost a year later.

These samples are unmodified raw images from the Nexus camera (no filters)...they looked exactly like this on the phone:







More here - http://forums.androidcentral.com/go...nexus-5-camera-photos-videos-thoughts-16.html

Updates always risk the chance of breaking devices.

Like basic cell functionality? You can't be serious.

I have never had a single Android update, on any phone, that has done that.

However, the debate would be is it better the get these updates and swift fixes than get nothing at all or sluggish fixes?

Why are fixes needed at all? That would be my first question. These bugs are major issues that should have come out in QC testing. Especially from a company like Apple. The worst thing my Nexus needed fixed was camera focusing speed. If Google released a patch that broke my cell access I would be seriously p*ssed.

My point is that at I would at least like the option to update to the latest OS even if the phone can't handle it physically.

So you basically just want a higher version number on your phone. Ok. Apple can give you that. (within limits... Apple doesn't seem to want to give this option to the iPhone 4).

I would argue that a version number means nothing if it does not add actual benefit. And if updates are needed just to catch up to what the cometition already has.

If iOS 8 is sluggish on the 4/4s

It's sluggish on the 4S. It does not exist on the 4. If you have an iPhone 4, you will not be getting iOS8...period. Apple will not offer it to you, and will void your warranty if you attempt to install it yourself.

I'm curious about the N6 but my experience with those devices has been subpar compared to my M7.

I absolutely love the Nexus 5. It has been awesome for me. I do have complaints, but I have complaints with every phone. With the Nexus I had to make the fewest compromises. It doesn't hurt that it was also dirt cheap for a flagship product.

 

[frooglepoopillion]

My bad, I thought you said iPhone 6 for the camera. It's still surprising that you claim the N5 takes better photos than the 5s when most other websites/reviews say the opposite. How much tinkering with the camera settings were required to get those photos though (which I admit are impressive)? My understanding is sure, some of these cameras can take stunning photos IF you can get the settings correct and IF the environmental conditions are optimal whereas the iPhone cameras are good point and shoot cameras with no tinkering required.

I thought I read somewhere that the 4 was supported but even the 4s is 3 years old. To me that's solid if you wanted to keep a phone for 3-4 years with some support rather than no support.

I've not owned the N5 although I hear it is a good phone with some issues. But I did own the N4 and still have my N7 which were junk IMO. The N4 had several issues that turned me off completely to owning a Google device and the N7 worked fine for a few months when I bought and over the last year has slowed down to almost unusable with 4.4.4. Comparing either device to my M7 (which is going on two years old) is laughable as the M7 is still for the most part fast, stable, and has been by far the best Android device I have ever owned. The only complaint I have with it is slow HTC updates and the battery life is hit and miss. I'm willing to give them another shot with the Nexus 6 but over all my Nexus experiences have been bad compared to my HTC and Apple experiences.

I've been Android ever since I've had a smart phone (minus a brief experimentation with WP8) and while carriers and manufacturers are getting better I still feel like they are just throwing stuff against a wall to see what sticks with many of the devices. HTC is probably doing the best job in terms of making phones that aren't gimmick based (that M8 camera though... yikes!) IMO besides the Nexus devices. I'm interested in the Moto X and the LG G3 on the Android side: Moto X for close-ish to a Nexus device with the Moto extras (also good camera hardware, hopefully software will catch up soon) and the G3 for that amazing screen and camera.

Can anyone tell me how good LG is on the update front? Or how good the Moto X is long term (I know some people said it went downhill pretty quickly)?

 

[JeffDenver]

My bad, I thought you said iPhone 6 for the camera. It's still surprising that you claim the N5 takes better photos than the 5s when most other websites/reviews say the opposite.

I let the pictures speak for themselves. The bad reviews were mostly due to the camera app issues (slow focusing) which have since been fixed.

How much tinkering with the camera settings were required to get those photos though (which I admit are impressive)?

None. I am careful with tap-to-focus (the camera will auto-focus on whatever is in the exact center of the screen otherwise). But I do not alter any default settings other than toggling HDR mode on or off.

I am the first to admit the Nexus camera app is wanting...the camera itself is awesome but the app is not that great. It lacks many features and is definitely not as quick as even other Android cameras (the GS5 comes to mind). The iPhone is good at getting fast AND good photos. If you are trying to take quick shots, the Nexus will not match the iPhone. But for posed shots or landscapes or still life or slow moving stuff, it is as good as the iPhone 5S IMO. It has an awesome macro, great lowlight, and is noise-free thanks to it's hardware OIS.

My understanding is sure, some of these cameras can take stunning photos IF you can get the settings correct and IF the environmental conditions are optimal

Yes. the Nexus is not one of those. In fact, there are not a lot of settings you even have the option of tweaking.

Supposedly this will change with the Android L camera app, which will give access to raw images as well as a ton of other settings you normally only find on iPhones or Skinned Android phones.

I thought I read somewhere that the 4 was supported but even the 4s is 3 years old. To me that's solid if you wanted to keep a phone for 3-4 years with some support rather than no support.

Well, I guess it depends on what you mean by support. Apple is notorious for stripping features for older phones. And their newer OSs (unlike Android) are more demanding on hardware, not less.

Google does not restrict anyone from upgrading to any Android version. Only hardware vendors and/or carriers do that. In fact, Google is taking steps to force them to upgrade in the future.

I've not owned the N5 although I hear it is a good phone with some issues.

Exactly true. I have plenty of complaints about it as well. But on balance, it's an awesome phone. There is no Android phone I would rather have, not even now. Vanilla Android has all the clean slick simplicity of iOS while retaining Android's openess and features.

The N4 had several issues that turned me off completely

Me too. It had no LTE and an awful camera, and was limited to 16gigs max, among other things. The Nexus 5 fixed every single complaint I had about the Nexus 4.

the N7 worked fine for a few months when I bought and over the last year has slowed down to almost unusable with 4.4.4.

The 2013 Nexus 7 is absolutely awesome. If it had SD support, it would be the perfect tablet. I love mine. The UI is faster than any other Android tablet I have seen.

I'm willing to give them another shot with the Nexus 6 but over all my Nexus experiences have been bad compared to my HTC and Apple experiences.

I am not yet on board with the nexus 6...especially if it really is as big as the rumors say. I might end up holding on to my Nexus 5 a while longer.

I've been Android ever since I've had a smart phone (minus a brief experimentation with WP8) and while carriers and manufacturers are getting better I still feel like they are just throwing stuff against a wall to see what sticks with many of the devices.

Because they are. But you need to understand that HTC/Samsung/LG are not Android. They have their own interpretations. I don't like them either, thats why I have a Nexus.

I have owned skinned phones from all three of them in the past. I absolutely hate Sense with a passion. It was the bane of my existence on my HTC Rezound.

Can anyone tell me how good LG is on the update front?

Awful. Worse than HTC and Samsung.

The only company that looks like it will match or exceed Google on updates is Moto. They have done a very good job re-inventing themselves. And are the only OEM smart enough to abandon skinned phones once and for all.

 

[frooglepoopillion]

That makes more sense, thanks for clarifying on all points!

It is starting to sound like I should look into the Moto X or maybe the N5. I want to love the G3 but I just don't trust LG with updates even though that camera software and screen are almost worth being behind.

The shutter speed is huge though. My M7 is super quick in almost all circumstances and there's something to be said about that. OIS is a godsend and I'm not sure I can go back to a phone without it unless the software is very good but from what I hear the regular 6's software is almost as good as the OIS on the 6 Plus. I'm not familiar enough with any of the other cameras except that the G3 has lasers (lol) and OIS.

 

[JeffDenver]

It is starting to sound like I should look into the Moto X or maybe the N5. I want to love the G3 but I just don't trust LG with updates even though that camera software and screen are almost worth being behind.

The G3 has incredible hardware. The camera is as good or better than anything else out (probably even the iPhone 6). The display is absolutely gorgeous. It's battery life could be better compared to other large phones, but it is still better than the iPhone 5S or the Nexus.

Just don't expect prompt updates (if you get them at all), and expect some UI lag. The G3's problems are entirely software related. I have a friend with a G3 that I help set up for him, and I got to experience the lag for myself. It's not pretty. Worse than the M8 and even the S5.

The shutter speed is huge though. My M7 is super quick in almost all circumstances and there's something to be said about that. OIS is a godsend and I'm not sure I can go back to a phone without it unless the software is very good but from what I hear the regular 6's software is almost as good as the OIS on the 6 Plus.

The Nexus does not have a great shutter speed. It's not awful, but it's not great.

The iPhone 6+ does have actual hardware OIS. It is not just software emulation like on the Galaxy S5. OIS is not necessarily a must-have item either...the iPhone 5S is able to match the OIS-equipped Nexus 5 even though it has no OIS. It just has a really really good sensor, and is tuned really well by apple.

I'm not familiar enough with any of the other cameras except that the G3 has lasers (lol) and OIS.

The G3 lasers only help with focusing. And it does focus very fast.

The S5 has a conventional camera with a good sensor. The Nexus beats it in lowlight, but otherwise it should be as good or maybe better in other areas.

The M8 has hardware support for lens-blur but is otherwise unremarkable. It does have good lowlight (arguably better than the Nexus) but it's daylight images are washed out in (IMO) a really unpleasant way.

The new Moto X has a decent camera which looks like it will more or less match the Nexus 5 I think. And Moto has better camera software. I has some reservations about it's lowlight early on, but reviewer images look decent enough IMO. Daylight images have slightly more detail than the nexus.

Apple is right about one thing...MP should the the last camera stat anyone should care about. 8MP is plenty and even 5MP might be fine. Image quality matters a lot more than MP.

 

[JeffDenver]

The M8's Lens Blur thing is better than a software solution, but Google's camera already does something similar. And I think it works with any phone.

These are images using the Lens Blur option in the Google camera. They are unmodified and look exactly as they did on the phone. No filters or editing.







They are almost double the resolution of lens-blur images on the M8 though.

 

[frooglepoopillion]

Very true about the MP argument. Although I will say that the Nokia 1020 has probably the best camera of any phone... seriously it is amazing.

Unfortunately as much as I love HTC the M8 is off the table for me as IMO it downgraded many cool features from the M7 and it just isn't worth the upgrade cost although the Dot View case is fun.

That is disappointing about the G3 lag. They really should go the Moto X route and just have their own camera app at this point. That would be a done deal for me! The S5 is out of the picture because I personally despise Samsung products. I've had too many bad experiences and know too many people who have also had issues.

Isn't the Moto X camera identical to the G3 camera minus lasers and software?

 

[KarlDag]

Very true about the MP argument. Although I will say that the Nokia 1020 has probably the best camera of any phone... seriously it is amazing.

Unfortunately as much as I love HTC the M8 is off the table for me as IMO it downgraded many cool features from the M7 and it just isn't worth the upgrade cost although the Dot View case is fun.

That is disappointing about the G3 lag. They really should go the Moto X route and just have their own camera app at this point. That would be a done deal for me! The S5 is out of the picture because I personally despise Samsung products. I've had too many bad experiences and know too many people who have also had issues.

Isn't the Moto X camera identical to the G3 camera minus lasers and software?

I own the G2 and am running the G3's software on it. Once you enable ART there is no lag, it really impressed me, Nexus level of smoothness... Compared to the G2 software which is a lag fest.

They'll generally give you 1 OS upgrade and some fixes, but you are going to wait 3 months... I'd recommend the G3 over the MotoX because every review says the X has bad battery life and camera. I prefer stock Android, but the G3 software is really smooth with ART on.

 

[JeffDenver]

Very true about the MP argument. Although I will say that the Nokia 1020 has probably the best camera of any phone... seriously it is amazing.

The best cooked steak in the world will be a lot less appetizing to me if you drop it on the floor. Thats what the Lumia 1020 is to me. I'd rather buy a DSLR than a windows phone.

That is disappointing about the G3 lag. They really should go the Moto X route and just have their own camera app at this point.

That won't happen. It probably would not have happened with Moto either if Google hadn't bought them at one point.

That would be a done deal for me! The S5 is out of the picture because I personally despise Samsung products. I've had too many bad experiences and know too many people who have also had issues.

Samsung does make good hardware. They have the best displays of any smartphone (better than the iPhone even). It's waterproof, and more durable than the iPhone. It has SD support and removable batteries. It has a fast CPU and lots of RAM. Their cameras are always pretty good, even when they are not at the top.

Isn't the Moto X camera identical to the G3 camera minus lasers and software?

Noooooo...not even close. It's not awful, but I would not compare it to the best. "Good Enough" is probably how I'd describe it.

 

[LeoRex]

.That is disappointing about the G3 lag.

The lag issue is overblown... I've had one for two months, coming from a nexus 5. Yes, it's not as smooth in some spots, but I wouldn't call it lag, more like skips, and nothing that takes away from my opinion of the phone... Outside of overall smoothness of the ui, it's head and shoulders above my old nexus 5... Screen, camera, battery performance, speaker, radios, etc.... I take the occasional juke or jink in return for what I've gained.

 

[JeffDenver]

The lag issue is overblown...

For the hardware it's packing it should not be lagging at all. Thats true of all the flagship phones. When the 2012 Nexus 4 is smoother than your 2014 flagship phone, there's a problem IMO.

I've had one for two months, coming from a nexus 5. Yes, it's not as smooth in some spots, but I wouldn't call it lag, more like skips, and nothing that takes away from my opinion of the phone... Outside of overall smoothness of the ui, it's head and shoulders above my old nexus 5... Screen, camera, battery performance, speaker, radios, etc.... I take the occasional juke or jink in return for what I've gained.

Unfortunately, the UI is something you use all the time though, unlike the other stuff. So yeah, UI smoothness matters a lot IMO.