12-16-2010 12:32 AM
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  1. Cory Streater's Avatar
    To the poster that started this discussion in the Android News forum, that was a good place to start a thread about it, but I'm merging it with this thread, because this is also a good place for it.
    12-11-2010 12:27 PM
  2. RUSH's Avatar
    I agree with your sentiments -- yes I don't think it takes an entire day to test out an app, but surely it takes more than 15 minutes.
    Correct, Do you think it would be a lot better if they(Google) had giving us an hour instead.
    I think you mean penny wise, pound foolish.

    It will hurt Google and developers financially, but it will ultimately hurt the consumer as well when developers are slow to produce apps due to the Android Market not being a lucrative option.
    I believe if this is final...consumers will somehow learn to adapt. After all - its ANDROID.
    This is TERRIBLE.
    For who? Definitely not for Google or Developers.
    12-11-2010 12:34 PM
  3. bkrodgers's Avatar
    This is TERRIBLE.
    For who? Definitely not for Google or Developers.
    I don't know about that. Maybe it won't turn into anything measurable, but I really do think that some people with either not make a purchase they might have otherwise made, or they will return a purchase they might have otherwise kept because they haven't had time to test it fully. Both of those would be terrible for both Google and developers. Maybe it will be offset by people who miss the window and they won't notice it, but I still think it could turn out to be negative for them.
    12-11-2010 12:47 PM
  4. Gekko's Avatar
    12-11-2010 01:09 PM
  5. TBolt's Avatar
    We have a long thread building at Google's help forums for Android Market -- would love to get your feedback there, please!

    link to thread

    Thank you!

    oOps...thanks, Gekko -- you beat me to it.
    12-11-2010 01:26 PM
  6. bkrodgers's Avatar
    I did, but honestly, I've never seen any evidence that they even read those issues, much less give a damn about them. There are bugs that have been open for years.
    12-11-2010 01:46 PM
  7. TBolt's Avatar
    Just don't whine about something that is a move for the better.
    The developers are the ones who have been doing the whining. Their predicament is real & worth addressing, but 15 minutes simply is not enough time. I know the 15 minutes was set by Google, not the Devs; so, this is not a disagreement with Devs - our beef is with Google.

    Developers that are worried about hackers ought to build more secure apps, not punish the end user.
    12-11-2010 02:03 PM
  8. TBolt's Avatar
    I did, but honestly, I've never seen any evidence that they even read those issues, much less give a damn about them. There are bugs that have been open for years.
    I have seen changes reversed based on feedback in the Google Docs help forums. Sure, it's not guarantee that our feedback is acted upon, but we deserve a voice in this.

    I, for one, will be looking to purchase apps directly from developers, like gameloft.com, rather than through the Market, as long as the developers have a reasonable 'try & buy' policy.
    12-11-2010 02:05 PM
  9. bkrodgers's Avatar
    The developers are the ones who have been doing the whining. Their predicament is real & worth addressing, but 15 minutes simply is not enough time. I know the 15 minutes was set by Google, not the Devs; so, this is not a disagreement with Devs - our beef is with Google.

    Developers that are worried about hackers ought to build more secure apps, not punish the end user.
    You know, retail stores simply budget a certain amount for "shrinkage." It doesn't mean they shouldn't and don't try to stop it, but the reality is that there will always be some theft. Software is similar. Piracy will never go away.

    There are three types of people:
    1. People who would never pirate under any circumstances. They stick to free apps and pay for any paid apps they want.
    2. People who might pirate, but would pay if the price were reasonable and they had a good demo first or a return policy. These people probably won't even bother learning how and where to get pirated apps unless something pushes them to.
    3. People who will always pirate.

    You just can't worry about #3. It will always be there. You do want to put reasonable defenses in and go after what you can, but there will *always* be a #3. #1 is obviously good, though this may drive some of those people to stick with a free app that seems "good enough." #2 is what you want to worry about. This change will drive some of the people in #2 to the dark side. That is why it's a bad idea.
    TBolt and MowDownJoe like this.
    12-11-2010 02:21 PM
  10. Chris Kerrigan's Avatar
    To say Google doesn't address any issues simply isn't true. I can name of dozens of instances where Google has made a decision directly based off of user input. I hope Google takes a second look at this, but we can only wait and see.

    Sent from my Fascinate via Tapatalk Pro
    12-11-2010 03:09 PM
  11. Johnly's Avatar
    That is why I paid 5 bucks for power amp, I was able to try, then buy. That would be better, all sales final.
    12-11-2010 03:18 PM
  12. bkrodgers's Avatar
    To say Google doesn't address any issues simply isn't true. I can name of dozens of instances where Google has made a decision directly based off of user input. I hope Google takes a second look at this, but we can only wait and see.
    I hope so too, and I probably shouldn't paint a broad picture like that. I've just had some bad experiences with them not paying any attention to serious problems lately. (Don't want to go off topic here by mentioning them). I really do hope they pay attention this time.
    12-11-2010 03:39 PM
  13. potatoho's Avatar
    With Android it is very easy to go without paid apps. It's built-in apps are very capable, and lots of free mods and apps are out there. I had always assumed the 24 hour grace period was there to loosen wallets, and it has worked that way for me a number of times. I can't see how this policy change is a net benefit to developers.
    12-11-2010 03:47 PM
  14. JustLeft's Avatar
    True. Navigon is a good example. It took me a half hour to download the maps to use the app.

    There are some apps and/or games that take at least 15 minutes just to install.

    There's been numerous times the app I purchased was just an installer, the installer downloads a boatload of data, then you have to go through a registration/login process (pocket legends comes to mind). So by the time you actually get to startup the app for the first time, the refund policy has already expired.

    1 or 2 hours would be more reasonable. 3 hours ideal.
    12-11-2010 03:49 PM
  15. Quis89's Avatar
    I believe the point that Google is trying to make is that - you don't need a whole day to figure out if you want/need the purchase app. Many might not agree on logic, but the bottom line is - its business.
    A day is reasonable when testing out an apps battery consumption though. 15 minutes? I dont think anyone can rightfully justify that drastic change...
    12-11-2010 03:52 PM
  16. Quis89's Avatar
    This is an excellent point I just read on the Android Market support forums,

    If people can't test the apps properly, they'll just look for pirated versions, and nobody wants that.

    App trial periods are all about testing conflicts with existing applications, compatibility with specific models and battery usage. Apple doesn't need this because they only support four devices at any given time.

    Not to mention, I fear the upcoming flood of faulty apps specifically designed to cheat customers within 15 minutes. They don't even need to work properly beyond that period. iTunes prevents this because they have an obtuse approval method, but GOOGLE DOES NOT. That's why we love Android.

    If developers are whining about people asking for refunds, what they need is to make better apps, not ask Google to protect them.

    I'm sorry, but if you're going to do this silly thing, you need to balance it with another measure. Time limited trial versions that expire in 12 hours, compulsory demos for very paid app, something. All Google does here is discourage me from buying ANY app.
    12-11-2010 04:02 PM
  17. bkrodgers's Avatar
    Tweet from @levelupstudio, aka touiteur and Beautiful Widgets:

    levelupstudio LevelUp Studio
    15min refund policy seems a bit short for me, sometime you need a bit more to know if an app is worth keeping
    12-11-2010 06:30 PM
  18. bnob99's Avatar
    Yeah its nice to see one developer that gets it. His apps are great so he knows he has nothing to worry about.
    12-11-2010 06:40 PM
  19. bkrodgers's Avatar
    You know, one other point for anyone thinking this is all great for devs -- most people who develop for Android are Android users too. So maybe they'll make a little more money off whatever they've written (or maybe they won't), but they may be stuck with some apps they don't want as well!
    12-11-2010 06:43 PM
  20. Chris Kerrigan's Avatar
    There needs to be some sort of balance here. If Google really follows through with this, then they need to start monitoring what goes into the Android Market more. Now, before people run me up the wall for saying they need to start having some sort of ridiculous approval process -- hold off. I'm not saying Google should even come close to how ridiculous Apple's procedure is at times, but the whole point of a refund period is to help determine if the app is worth what you just paid for it. 15 minutes doesn't allow for this, not adequately anyway.

    God forbid we start seeing apps pop up in the Market to take advantage of this when they're really garbage.
    12-11-2010 08:43 PM
  21. bkrodgers's Avatar
    God forbid we start seeing apps pop up in the Market to take advantage of this when they're really garbage.
    ProgressDialog.show(context, "Downloading", "Please wait, downloading content...", true, false);
    Thread.sleep(1000*60*15 + 1);
    12-11-2010 08:52 PM
  22. Jerry Hildenbrand's Avatar
    ProgressDialog.show(context, "Downloading", "Please wait, downloading content...", true, false);
    Thread.sleep(1000*60*15 + 1);
    lol. I'm not even gonna mod that out. Anyone who knows what that should do, should have a chance to read it and chuckle.

    Edit: Drop that on the beginners Android coders Google group to see SHTF
    12-11-2010 11:18 PM
  23. ls377's Avatar
    lol. I'm not even gonna mod that out. Anyone who knows what that should do, should have a chance to read it and chuckle.
    I think I chuckled more at the fact that I knew what it meant.

    I bet Google changes it to something more in the middle (I bet they go to an hour), considering everyone on the consumer end seems to be against this, and it hasn't even taken effect yet.
    12-11-2010 11:52 PM
  24. bkrodgers's Avatar
    lol. I'm not even gonna mod that out. Anyone who knows what that should do, should have a chance to read it and chuckle.

    Edit: Drop that on the beginners Android coders Google group to see SHTF
    Sarcasm and humor was my only intention here.

    Sadly, I'm sure we'll see apps that aren't too far off from that.
    12-11-2010 11:57 PM
  25. Ricky Babalu's Avatar
    How many of you that are upset over this have actually asked for a refund?

    I know that if I plan on purchasing an app, I have done extensive homework. So more often than not I limit the chances of me being dissatisfied with my purchase. Bottom line if you do your homework this change in policy should not adversely affect you.
    theeroopable likes this.
    12-12-2010 01:20 PM
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