1. FAQUERETERMAX's Avatar
    This post is mainly a complain about Samsung phones, but it applies to almost every phone released lately. It's been among popular knowledge that Samsung phones are usually the best when it comes to features that are actually useful, but what if they are not? What would happen if we didn't have them? Let's debate!

    Lets start with the microSD card. This is one of the must useful features for many of us, and certainly for me. Since today phones come a small 64gb internal storage which is enough for many, having the option to increase it by 256gb by just buying a separate card is very convenient. Whoa... stop right there. Ever wondered why today phones come with a low internal capacity? It's because of microSD! Let's compare phones without microSD to those who rely solely on internal space and see the difference:
    • Samsung Galaxy S8 (can get microSD): 64gb (128gb for non available Asian version).
    • LG G6 (can get microSD): Up to 64gb (in some places, only 32gb is available).
    • HTC 10 (can get microSD): Up to 64gb (in some places, only 32gb is available).
    • Apple iPhone 7 (can't get microSD): Up to 256gb.
    • Google Pixel (can't get microSD): Up to 128gb.
    • OnePlus 3T (can't get microSD): 128gb.

    Notice any difference here? That's right, phones without microSD card can get better storage options from twice to four times the capacity, sometimes by default. You might ask: Why is my phone worse when I can get the same capacity by buying a microSD card? There are two answers: First, your internal storage is way faster than your microSD. By making you unable to purchase higher internal storage options, they're forcing you to use a slightly slower memory module. This makes no difference for people who don't use much storage, but for many of us it does. The second answer is most apps can't get installed in the microSD, mainly VR apps. Those apps are heavy, and need fast storage to run, so developers decide to only allow installing them in the internal storage. This is also true for another gimmicky called "adaptative storage", with apps still being installed in the internal memory even when the user doesn't know, and running out of storage when you still seem to have "100gb more". I always run out of space in my internal memory, and I hate that about my Samsung.

    Let's talk about the second feature: "Wireless" Charging. This is mostly a complain for Samsung, as every other manufacturer doesn't produce their in-house wireless chargers. And that's right, wireless charging is not really wireless. You still need to connect your cable, and you still need to physically place the phone in a specific part of the carger for it to work. It's also very slow. Even what Samsung calls "Fast Wireless Charging" is pretty damn slow, slower than any regular 5v 2a charger and about half as fast as regular Fast Charging. It's still more convenient than plugging your phone every time, and I use it every day. But how does exactly adding this extra feature make your phone worse, when you can still use your charger? Well, let me first explain there are many speeds for cable charging. Most phones these days come with Fast Charge 3.0 or 4.0, while Samsung comes with a 2.0 charger, which is worse. You might say: "That's because they wanted to stick with a safe, proven way of charging to prevent the Note 7 fiasco from ever happening again". But you'd be wrong. That's only one of the reasons. The REAL REASON is they don't want to stop you from buying one of their Wireless Chargers. From preventing you from getting faster charge via cable, they're closing the gap between wired and Wireless Charging. That way, you buy more of their chargers. They did the same thing last year with Samsung Galaxy S7 not being able to get superior USB-C just so they could sell more of their old Gear VR models that didn't support it.

    Lastly, the most controversial one: Headphone jack. This is one of the most loved and most convenient features ever to have in a phone. This "ancient technology" has helped us survive through the format wars, and makes music available for everyone, everywhere. To make things clear, I would buy a phone with a headphone jack over one with a bigger battery 10/10 times. But what if every phone in the planet didn't come with a headphone jack? Wouldn't companies be forced to produce better, highest quality, equally accessible, more convenient wireless audio for all of us. Imagine what kind of loseless amazing wireless audio we would have today if phones didn't include a headphone jack 10 years ago. Would headphone jack removal push the wireless future ahead, even if it's worse today? Wouldn't it promote the developement of real wireless charging for all of our devices (charging from 5-10 meters away)? I'll let you guys answer those questions. Let the debate begin!
    06-08-2017 07:24 AM
  2. Golfdriver97's Avatar
    Welcome to the forums. One thing that makes comparing SD cards and internal storage a little more difficult is one stat for cards is hard to find. I have been trying to find the MTBF specification on SanDisk's website, and I can't find them for SD cards. I understand that people like using them, and that's fine. But I think we are going to see more instances of card failures now that the OS can use them as adoptable storage.
    FAQUERETERMAX likes this.
    06-08-2017 09:19 AM
  3. Aquila's Avatar
    Mostly agree with the high level concept. Adding things can come at the cost of other things through crutch or opportunity cost.
    FAQUERETERMAX and J Dubbs like this.
    06-08-2017 09:20 AM
  4. FAQUERETERMAX's Avatar
    Thanks, microSD cards have certainly given me many problems in the past and still having problems now. I still want to have the option to use them, but they come at the very high cost of having less internal storage, because people don't buy models with high storage options unless they know they can't "upgrade" it later. I certainly would. If Note 8 doesn't come with at least 128gb internal memory, I certainly won't buy it.
    06-08-2017 01:36 PM
  5. Almeuit's Avatar
    The SD card thing never has bothered me. If it has it -- cool -- if it doesn't -- cool.

    The wireless charging I guess could be look at it from that angle but I don't think they did it just to have a grand scheme of selling wireless chargers. Most consumers that buy them know they are more for convenience of laying your phone down and having it charge -- not for "I need the most juice I can get in this crunch time" sort of thing.

    Headphone jacks to me are eh. I use BT in the truck and at work. It is extremely rare for me to ever connect a headset.
    06-08-2017 02:43 PM
  6. FAQUERETERMAX's Avatar
    Most people say 64gb is all the storage you'd ever need in a phone, but I completely disagree with that. I need and use a lot of space to manage all my files and apps. It's ok if you don't need more, most people just don't need all that space, but I think it's good for people like me to have options to buy as much storage as we want even if no one else wants to buy that much. With SD card, they just go for the lowest storage model and market works like that.

    Wireless charging would be trully inconvenient if you could charge your phone very very fast. Having your phone docked all the time and not getting enough juice out of it makes just another reason not to buy it. Some people just use it at nights so that'd still work for them, but that's a very small portion of its market.

    Since you use BT all the time, I'm sure you want the option to buy better, cheaper, more reliable, bigger battery, lighter, more stylish, advanced feature, good quality BT headphones. Don't you think the Headphone jack is stopping BT headphones from progressing that fast, even if we see so many more BT devices lately? We haven't even figured out a way to produce high quality wireless audio, all Bluetooth goes through a lossy format and lose its quality when it reaches your headphones. Isn't this progress taking slower than it should because we still have the super convenient headphone jack some people just can't live without?
    06-08-2017 11:33 PM
  7. ahaxton's Avatar
    The amount of internal storage has nothing to do with MicroSD cards. LG, HTC, and Samsung all sold 128GB variants in the past. The problem was they didn't sell enough to do a big enough production run to keep the cost reasonable. They don't sell them because enough people don't buy them.
    06-13-2017 11:51 AM
  8. Inders99's Avatar
    Curved screens.
    VN750 likes this.
    06-14-2017 05:13 AM
  9. Almeuit's Avatar
    Most people say 64gb is all the storage you'd ever need in a phone, but I completely disagree with that. I need and use a lot of space to manage all my files and apps. It's ok if you don't need more, most people just don't need all that space, but I think it's good for people like me to have options to buy as much storage as we want even if no one else wants to buy that much. With SD card, they just go for the lowest storage model and market works like that.
    There any many options so .. you just have to choose what works for you. SD cards are nice but they will only be used by me for media (if the phone I am using has one). I never trust an SD card with actual information I need to keep.

    Wireless charging would be trully inconvenient if you could charge your phone very very fast. Having your phone docked all the time and not getting enough juice out of it makes just another reason not to buy it. Some people just use it at nights so that'd still work for them, but that's a very small portion of its market.
    Again .. it is for convenience. Not fast. Fast is via cord. It is just how technology is right now ... it isn't like they're purposely not letting it charge up fast. It also isn't that dreadfully long as the wireless chargers that we first saw. Now a days my S8+ can charge up in an hour and 45 mins or so... But that is only if really low. So if I am at 60% and charge for 45 minutes and then leave the house .. I am good.

    Since you use BT all the time, I'm sure you want the option to buy better, cheaper, more reliable, bigger battery, lighter, more stylish, advanced feature, good quality BT headphones. Don't you think the Headphone jack is stopping BT headphones from progressing that fast, even if we see so many more BT devices lately? We haven't even figured out a way to produce high quality wireless audio, all Bluetooth goes through a lossy format and lose its quality when it reaches your headphones. Isn't this progress taking slower than it should because we still have the super convenient headphone jack some people just can't live without?
    I am lost with this one. There are plenty of good quality BT headsets so -- why do you think they don't exist? They have amazing ones for a premium price ... and then more "budget" friendly ones. I have a pair that cost me $60. I have used them for 2-3 years now without issue at all. Sure some sound better but these do just fine for my needs since I am no audiophile.

    Will you explain more as to why you think there are no good BT devices due to a headphone jack? I mean .. people who are audiophiles will say a wired headset is better but that is because it really is. It isn't a conspiracy or anything .. just a fact.
    DMP89145 likes this.
    06-14-2017 08:51 AM
  10. FAQUERETERMAX's Avatar
    You have two options when you want a phone with a lot of space: Either buy a microSD or buy a high storage option for a phone without a microSD. The latest is only available in phones without microSD. That's because people only buy high storage options when they don't have the choice of expanding it, so they end up with the only choice of having a phone with slow memory just because of this feature.

    I know Wireless charging is slow and the technology isn't there to make it faster, but the point is they give us cable Fast Charge 2.0 instead of 3.0 or 4.0 so they can sell more Wireless Chargers by making the cable charging more inconvenient and give Wireless Charging an advantage.

    I'm sure there are many good quality BT headphones, but there aren't any really good sounding ones compared to wired. BT is just too slow to send enough audio data to the headphones, but ever wondered why it is so slow? Why haven't they researched a faster way to transfer data wirelessly via BT? It's simply because people who want the best quality they can get will never spend money in a expensive pair of BT speakers, they will just buy wired ones. If wired option didn't exist, those people would be forced to buy expensive BT speakers instead, and they will push the industry to make them sound even better than wired today. Our phones are already capable of sending and receiving up to 1000mbps, while the just released BT 5.0 can only send 0.5mbps when it is close enough. Technology just isn't there just because no one spends money on it, and the headphone jack is to blame. It's not conspiracy, it's just something really convenient that simply forces us to use cords if we want a really good audiophile experience.
    06-16-2017 02:51 PM
  11. Almeuit's Avatar
    I know Wireless charging is slow and the technology isn't there to make it faster, but the point is they give us cable Fast Charge 2.0 instead of 3.0 or 4.0 so they can sell more Wireless Chargers by making the cable charging more inconvenient and give Wireless Charging an advantage.
    That is a conspiracy -- unless you have facts to show why they are using 2.0 versus something faster. After Samsung's latest battery fiasco I honestly do not blame them for going something very well known.

    I'm sure there are many good quality BT headphones, but there aren't any really good sounding ones compared to wired. BT is just too slow to send enough audio data to the headphones, but ever wondered why it is so slow? Why haven't they researched a faster way to transfer data wirelessly via BT?
    Do you keep up with BT and stuff? Not trying to be rude but this comment here makes no sense because of course a wired one sounds better then wireless. Samsung and phone manufacturers didn't make BT. BT is a standard and yes it is being pursued by that group. The Galaxy S8 / S8+ are the first to offer Bluetooth 5.0 which has more range and faster data transfer rates. So you're acting as if they're holding back on BT devices when they actually are putting in the new hardware.. But Samsung, HTC, Google, etc. doesn't make BT itself so you have to remember that.

    BT itself can only do so many Mbps because it wasn't meant to do insane high data rate transfers. It is meant to be a low powered radio. You're comparing an advanced LTE Radio at 1,000 Mbps to BT. Totally different standards. That is like asking why a 56k Modem can't do 100 Mbps because cable can now a days. It can't because they're on totally different standards and BT wasn't built to carry 1,000 Mbps across it. Also with our phones being "capable" of 1,000 Mbps the carriers aren't there yet so while we have this great hardware we can't fully utilize it.
    06-16-2017 03:42 PM
  12. kramer5150's Avatar
    I am in favor of only one thing... CONSUMER CHOICE.

    Im my book the good designs are the ones that give the consumer the choice. The bad ones eliminate consumer choice all together, and the worst ones (in this regard) are iPhones.

    Give me the headphone jack, let me chose whether or not to use it.
    Give me an SD card slot, so I can chose for myself whether or not to use it.
    Give me wireless charging so I can chose for myself how to re-power my battery.
    06-17-2017 12:44 AM
  13. Aquila's Avatar
    I am in favor of only one thing... CONSUMER CHOICE.

    Im my book the good designs are the ones that give the consumer the choice. The bad ones eliminate consumer choice all together, and the worst ones (in this regard) are iPhones.

    Give me the headphone jack, let me chose whether or not to use it.
    Give me an SD card slot, so I can chose for myself whether or not to use it.
    Give me wireless charging so I can chose for myself how to re-power my battery.
    I agree the choices should exist, but not that devices that lack every choice are bad. I see more value in smart data driven decisions that take opportunity cost into account than in the throw every single feature into the device. IMO, adding an SD card slot in a flagship phone in the US is a mistake. But if the device has one model only and it's meant to sell in many types of markets globally, then including it is smart. Context has a lot of importance in figuring out what makes sense in order to have the most optimal set of options at a good price point, etc.
    DMP89145 likes this.
    06-17-2017 07:55 AM
  14. kramer5150's Avatar
    As I see it... the problem here is compromised choice, which I think is what the OP is getting at. Why can't designers give us an SD card *AND* 128 / 256G of internal storage? Why can't they give us in north america a headphone jack AND high impedance amp circuit and lossless high res-DAC... AND Bluetooth (Screaming at you LG!!)? Similarly theres no reason we can't have wireless charging AND a fast plug-in charge feature.

    Theres also no reason they can't design an aluminum wireless charge capable case back. The Qi charge coil is only 1.75" x 2.5". Just make a non-metal rectangular area within an Aluminum shell/housing for the coil to receive its mojo. There is no reason we have to suffer with inferior case materials like glass in order to have wireless charging.

    These are $650-900 (!!) devices + monthly services... At this kind of margin theres no reason we have to live with compromised choices.

    As I see it problem-A is not having the choice... problem-B is designers not giving us the BEST choices (when they do). They are force feeding us compromised choices, or no choices at all (apple).
    06-17-2017 12:06 PM
  15. Tsepz_GP's Avatar
    The Galaxy S7 Edge Pearl Black has 128GB internal plus MicroSD, there are a few other 128GB phones with MicroSD.

    I will always prefer a phone that allows expansion of memory, as I always carry a ton of media in my phone.

    I hate Cloud Storage, it is too costly in terms of data usage, I use the cloud to simply back up important docs etc...
    06-18-2017 01:45 PM
  16. MDMcAtee's Avatar
    This post is mainly a complain about Samsung phones, but it applies to almost every phone released lately. It's been among popular knowledge that Samsung phones are usually the best when it comes to features that are actually useful, but what if they are not? What would happen if we didn't have them? Let's debate!

    Lets start with the microSD card. This is one of the must useful features for many of us, and certainly for me. Since today phones come a small 64gb internal storage which is enough for many, having the option to increase it by 256gb by just buying a separate card is very convenient. Whoa... stop right there. Ever wondered why today phones come with a low internal capacity? It's because of microSD! Let's compare phones without microSD to those who rely solely on internal space and see the difference:
    • Samsung Galaxy S8 (can get microSD): 64gb (128gb for non available Asian version).
    • LG G6 (can get microSD): Up to 64gb (in some places, only 32gb is available).
    • HTC 10 (can get microSD): Up to 64gb (in some places, only 32gb is available).
    • Apple iPhone 7 (can't get microSD): Up to 256gb.
    • Google Pixel (can't get microSD): Up to 128gb.
    • OnePlus 3T (can't get microSD): 128gb.

    Notice any difference here? That's right, phones without microSD card can get better storage options from twice to four times the capacity, sometimes by default. You might ask: Why is my phone worse when I can get the same capacity by buying a microSD card? There are two answers: First, your internal storage is way faster than your microSD. By making you unable to purchase higher internal storage options, they're forcing you to use a slightly slower memory module. This makes no difference for people who don't use much storage, but for many of us it does. The second answer is most apps can't get installed in the microSD, mainly VR apps. Those apps are heavy, and need fast storage to run, so developers decide to only allow installing them in the internal storage. This is also true for another gimmicky called "adaptative storage", with apps still being installed in the internal memory even when the user doesn't know, and running out of storage when you still seem to have "100gb more". I always run out of space in my internal memory, and I hate that about my Samsung.

    Let's talk about the second feature: "Wireless" Charging. This is mostly a complain for Samsung, as every other manufacturer doesn't produce their in-house wireless chargers. And that's right, wireless charging is not really wireless. You still need to connect your cable, and you still need to physically place the phone in a specific part of the carger for it to work. It's also very slow. Even what Samsung calls "Fast Wireless Charging" is pretty damn slow, slower than any regular 5v 2a charger and about half as fast as regular Fast Charging. It's still more convenient than plugging your phone every time, and I use it every day. But how does exactly adding this extra feature make your phone worse, when you can still use your charger? Well, let me first explain there are many speeds for cable charging. Most phones these days come with Fast Charge 3.0 or 4.0, while Samsung comes with a 2.0 charger, which is worse. You might say: "That's because they wanted to stick with a safe, proven way of charging to prevent the Note 7 fiasco from ever happening again". But you'd be wrong. That's only one of the reasons. The REAL REASON is they don't want to stop you from buying one of their Wireless Chargers. From preventing you from getting faster charge via cable, they're closing the gap between wired and Wireless Charging. That way, you buy more of their chargers. They did the same thing last year with Samsung Galaxy S7 not being able to get superior USB-C just so they could sell more of their old Gear VR models that didn't support it.

    Lastly, the most controversial one: Headphone jack. This is one of the most loved and most convenient features ever to have in a phone. This "ancient technology" has helped us survive through the format wars, and makes music available for everyone, everywhere. To make things clear, I would buy a phone with a headphone jack over one with a bigger battery 10/10 times. But what if every phone in the planet didn't come with a headphone jack? Wouldn't companies be forced to produce better, highest quality, equally accessible, more convenient wireless audio for all of us. Imagine what kind of loseless amazing wireless audio we would have today if phones didn't include a headphone jack 10 years ago. Would headphone jack removal push the wireless future ahead, even if it's worse today? Wouldn't it promote the developement of real wireless charging for all of our devices (charging from 5-10 meters away)? I'll let you guys answer those questions. Let the debate begin!
    Phones come with lower capacity memory because of cost. The Oems will always charge more for the higher amount and the SD card gives you and everyone else a cheaper easier way of increasing the amount. I've never had a problem with SD cards.. Never... Namely because I always buy the highest quality of cards, not some Chinese knock offs from eBay... Oh...

    Since SD cards are cheaper (even the ultra 4k type) you can have as many of them as you want...

    Let me say this about batteries... Removable batteries.... Problem solved.

    Headphone jack.. Wired can always sounds better depending on the phone. No USB or Bluetooth headset can compete if the phone is capable of providing the current and having the Dacs for it. One other thing.. The 3.5mm jack and wire is used as a external antenna for the FM Ota radio.. No cost for streaming service or data and uses way less battery juice.

    Flagship phones are only going to increase in price.. and the manufacturers are only going to force you to upgrade more often to get the next great thing... They really don't care about what we want, only their bottom line...

    Mac
    J Dubbs likes this.
    06-19-2017 12:21 AM
  17. L0n3N1nja's Avatar
    Some decent points, but I can't agree to most of it.

    Micro SD cards, that is debatable, personally I haven't needed more than 32Gb of internal memory on a phone, I move my media off onto a PC on a regular basis. Larger storage options cost a lot, 128Gb Pixel isn't cheap, either is the iPhone with max storage. There is also a limit to availability of parts, SD card is just a cheaper solution and wouldn't be an issue if Samsung's new UFS cards replaced them.

    The charging speeds, Samsung limits them to 2.0 because that is all their adaptive fast charge supports on their Exynos chips, they limit their Snapdragon parts to match. No 4.0 chargers exist yet either, and it isn't a big improvement. Personally use a wireless charger more often than a fast charge cable, I like setting my phone on the pad while at my desk. Charging ports break, it's nice not needing it.

    Head phone jack, maybe we could have better wireless tech, but I've got audio cords everywhere, it's just convienent.
    06-19-2017 01:27 AM

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