LTE Poll Question

[Jerry Hildenbrand]

Is there a beating a dead horse icon?

First off, everyone try to be civil for me, mkay? Please
Second, look at the history of the Sprint Nexus phones and the Verizon Nexus in relation to the AOSP project. These phones need to have licensing to redistribute their network technology, because Google has to provide it as a download. This is not easy to get. As of now, there is no licensing in place for CDMA or LTE on the Nexus 4.

Will there be in the future? Dunno. But you can almost bet on seeing some sort of a version of this phone for AT&T, Sprint and Verizon eventually, unless the carriers do not want one. Google likes money just like every other company. After all the headaches, they still likely made 2x the cash off the Verizon Galaxy Nexus as they did the rest of them combined.

 

[masterpfa]

In the UK LTE is still young and developing. A bigger picture and some clarity will be offered once all providers come on board. Until then GSM HSPA+ is more than satisfactory.

Personally I think the manner in which Nexus LTE was handled in the US left a sour taste in Google's mouth and being dictated too, essentially by the carriers, is an experience, I cannot imagine they would, take on again in any form.

 

[JHBThree]

Is there a beating a dead horse icon?

First off, everyone try to be civil for me, mkay? Please
Second, look at the history of the Sprint Nexus phones and the Verizon Nexus in relation to the AOSP project. These phones need to have licensing to redistribute their network technology, because Google has to provide it as a download. This is not easy to get. As of now, there is no licensing in place for CDMA or LTE on the Nexus 4.

Will there be in the future? Dunno. But you can almost bet on seeing some sort of a version of this phone for AT&T, Sprint and Verizon eventually, unless the carriers do not want one. Google likes money just like every other company. After all the headaches, they still likely made 2x the cash off the Verizon Galaxy Nexus as they did the rest of them combined.

Google should have forced Verizon and AT&T's hands. Each has a supposedly 'open' network initiative for their LTE networks that allows any certified handset. The verge has a pretty good write up on why the lack of LTE is a bigger deal than some apologists will admit.

This just feels like another Andy Rubin multitouch moment. (Where the nexus one lacked multitouch not out of any technical inability, but because Rubin didn't like it and didn't want it, and refused to include it until the pressure from customers and the press became too great)

 

[Woosh]

Google should have forced Verizon and AT&T's hands. Each has a supposedly 'open' network initiative for their LTE networks that allows any certified handset. The verge has a pretty good write up on why the lack of LTE is a bigger deal than some apologists will admit.

This just feels like another Andy Rubin multitouch moment. (Where the nexus one lacked multitouch not out of any technical inability, but because Rubin didn't like it and didn't want it, and refused to include it until the pressure from customers and the press became too great)

Verizon is CDMA, so even if lte were allowed it would not be allowed because CDMA is a closed technology.

Again, they could have made an att version but few people would have bought it and it would have been wasted money for Google. Not to mention the number of ppl on lte with att is soooo small. Their coverage is stupid small also and just getting started on rolling out.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

 

[pugnuttt]

Couldn't care less about LTE!

 

[paul-c]

I've had LTE phones on Verizon and AT&T. I have no problem switching back to HSPA+ for a phone I like. To me, LTE still seems like a bonus, not a deal breaker.

Sent from my Panasonic ELUGA

 

[Chex313]

Bingo.

First of all the iP5 costs what, $600 off contract? So unless that is a $250 radio, something doesn't add up.

Second, VZW is basically the only carrier on Earth with a substantial LTE footprint. The point of the Nexus is to sidestep as many "fringe" frequencies as possible in order to design a truly unchained phone (or as possible as that can be for a single device).

I have to ask, what is the point of "covering all LTE networks whenever carrier shenanigans wont even allow you to use that amazing iPhone radio from Sprint on T-Mobile? Maybe it has more to do with logistics and production costs than it does pursing a free range mobile handset.

Sent from my MB855 using Android Central Forums

You meant to say that Verizon is the only carrier in the US with widespread LTE...Other countries have almost total LTE coverage. Travel to South Korea...

 

[Chex313]

Is there a beating a dead horse icon?

First off, everyone try to be civil for me, mkay? Please
Second, look at the history of the Sprint Nexus phones and the Verizon Nexus in relation to the AOSP project. These phones need to have licensing to redistribute their network technology, because Google has to provide it as a download. This is not easy to get. As of now, there is no licensing in place for CDMA or LTE on the Nexus 4.

Will there be in the future? Dunno. But you can almost bet on seeing some sort of a version of this phone for AT&T, Sprint and Verizon eventually, unless the carriers do not want one. Google likes money just like every other company. After all the headaches, they still likely made 2x the cash off the Verizon Galaxy Nexus as they did the rest of them combined.

Actually Samsung made the money off the the VGN since they made the handset, Google makes no money off the actual handset...Or were you extrapolating $'s from the eyeballs using Google service's? Or did Google buy the handset from Samsung then sell it to Verizon? In which case it must have been a "Loss Leader" like the N7.

"and the rest of them combined"

The only one GN sold in the Play store was the GSM...so assuming Google made some money off that handset (and they may not of) They still should have made more money off that one...and if compared to the plain GSM (Global) you gotta think that the VGN was a sliver of sales.

and thank you for the great podcast, never would have joined this site or switched to Android with out it.

 

[JHBThree]

Verizon is CDMA, so even if lte were allowed it would not be allowed because CDMA is a closed technology.

Again, they could have made an att version but few people would have bought it and it would have been wasted money for Google. Not to mention the number of ppl on lte with att is soooo small. Their coverage is stupid small also and just getting started on rolling out.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

Not quite. Google could have had their handset certified by Verizon so it could access the network, without having to deal with the normal carrier software nonsense.

 

[johnp888]

This is my personal opinion and I'm not saying I know anything... but boggles my mind how people equate lte to how fast the user experience on a smartphone is. It's an enabling technology and sometime in the future when unlimited data really means unlimited and I'm streaming 4k video and downloading data from my home network to do some processing on my phone's 8 core 4GHz processor, then lte and it's huge speed advantage will be awesome.

What do normal people do with their phones these days? Email, tweeting, texting, surfing the web and sometimes uploading images. I can do that pretty well depending on coverage on hspa+ networks. Carriers just need to focus on beefing up back haul infrastructure. I think the demographic that really needs lte are the tech bloggers who need to upload HD video hands-ons and to do their work tethered to a laptop. I don't think there are millions of tech bloggers out there? Alas they write the reviews so us consumers can get some insight before we buy our gadgets, oh well... OK rant over... I wish I had lte service but don't really need it.

 

[Woosh]

Not quite. Google could have had their handset certified by Verizon so it could access the network, without having to deal with the normal carrier software nonsense.

So you think Verizon would have given Google free reign on their network when the GN sold maybe 70k units?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

 

[SteveL]

how about a 399 option for 32gig hspa+? haha.

This

I don't really need LTE. What I do need is a low priced option to replace my company provided BlackBerry. 32gig would be icing on the cake though, it would allow me to carry one phone.

 

[Flazer]

The LTE rants are irrelevant to me. I'm not part of the population that lives in LTE coverage and I won't be switching to Verizon. I wish blogs and reviewers would remember, not everyone lives in NY, San Francisco, or other major metropolitan areas. HSPA will be fine for me until LTE gets a full roll out and they can figure out how to mitigate battery drain.

It would be nice to have LTE so when it does come to my area, I could use it, but you won't see me crying. I'm going for the nexus for updates and open android. Moto burned this bridge with the Atrix.

 

[Jerry Hildenbrand]

Google should have forced Verizon and AT&T's hands. Each has a supposedly 'open' network initiative for their LTE networks that allows any certified handset. The verge has a pretty good write up on why the lack of LTE is a bigger deal than some apologists will admit.

This just feels like another Andy Rubin multitouch moment. (Where the nexus one lacked multitouch not out of any technical inability, but because Rubin didn't like it and didn't want it, and refused to include it until the pressure from customers and the press became too great)

It appears that you don't understand.
The license holders of any LTE technology used in *this* Nexus 4 would have to reach an agreement with Google for distribution rights. Not manufacture, or sales, but distribution. In this case, that would be (at a minimum) LG, Qualcomm, Motorola Mobility, InterDigital, Nokia and Samsung. There's a very good chance that using more than one frequency on an LTE radio will require additional license, from such friendly folks as Microsoft, Apple, RIM, Sony, ZTE, and HTC. Anyone with the capital can get the license to use these standards-essential patents, but Google needs more than fair-use. They need to make the code needed to build and use the hardware available to everyone.

Apple, Samsung, HTC, etc. only sell the phone, and force you to steal the protected IP from these companies if you want to build your own OS.

This is exactly why the Verizon Nexus disappeared from the AOSP for a long time, and the Sprint version never made it in. Many of us have been saying that LTE will create a mess for an open handset since the Nortel buyout, and it's finally coming to it's head. There is no way to fix this without judicial order, or long, drawn out talks between license holders.

This Nexus needs to be burden-free in the network department. Hopefully, others are in the works that will be using the protected technology, even if they aren't in the AOSP.

 

[JHBThree]

It appears that you don't understand.
The license holders of any LTE technology used in *this* Nexus 4 would have to reach an agreement with Google for distribution rights. Not manufacture, or sales, but distribution. In this case, that would be (at a minimum) LG, Qualcomm, Motorola Mobility, InterDigital, Nokia and Samsung. There's a very good chance that using more than one frequency on an LTE radio will require additional license, from such friendly folks as Microsoft, Apple, RIM, Sony, ZTE, and HTC. Anyone with the capital can get the license to use these standards-essential patents, but Google needs more than fair-use. They need to make the code needed to build and use the hardware available to everyone.

Apple, Samsung, HTC, etc. only sell the phone, and force you to steal the protected IP from these companies if you want to build your own OS.

This is exactly why the Verizon Nexus disappeared from the AOSP for a long time, and the Sprint version never made it in. Many of us have been saying that LTE will create a mess for an open handset since the Nortel buyout, and it's finally coming to it's head. There is no way to fix this without judicial order, or long, drawn out talks between license holders.

This Nexus needs to be burden-free in the network department. Hopefully, others are in the works that will be using the protected technology, even if they aren't in the AOSP.

You misunderstand. Getting all of those licenses is relatively easy, and google hasn't claimed otherwise. Their chief complaint and reason for not including LTE was carriers. Both Verizon and AT&T have policies that allow people to bring their own device as long as they're certified. To date no one has tried to do this on a big enough scale to matter. Google should have, and it's frankly inexcusable that they didn't try.

 

[Woosh]

You misunderstand. Getting all of those licenses is relatively easy, and google hasn't claimed otherwise. Their chief complaint and reason for not including LTE was carriers. Both Verizon and AT&T have policies that allow people to bring their own device as long as they're certified. To date no one has tried to do this on a big enough scale to matter. Google should have, and it's frankly inexcusable that they didn't try.

Do I have to repeat myself how CDMA is a locked down system that doesn't allow for random unlocked phones to be activated on it? Verizon LTE may be open, but the fact is since they run CDMA voice network they will NOT be activating any phone you want on it.

Tell you what, unlock an LTE GN from Sprint and activate it on Verizon and I'll concede that you have a minor point.

But it still comes down to sales numbers and LTE to Google just isn't that important.

 

[Captian4Phones]

The fact that this phone won't have LTE and apple can put global LTE on the iPhone 5 sickens me. I thought android was supposed to be ahead of the game.

Sent from a stock Atrix 2 cause there's no reason to root it.

 

[Woosh]

The fact that this phone won't have LTE and apple can put global LTE on the iPhone 5 sickens me. I thought android was supposed to be ahead of the game.

Sent from a stock Atrix 2 cause there's no reason to root it.

For starters.....Android has had LTE way before the iPhone ever did. The iPhone does not have global LTE. They currently have 3 different versions of LTE for 3 different networks. It'll likely only get worse when more networks open up LTE.

 

[Jerry Hildenbrand]

Actually Samsung made the money off the the VGN since they made the handset, Google makes no money off the actual handset...Or were you extrapolating $'s from the eyeballs using Google service's? Or did Google buy the handset from Samsung then sell it to Verizon? In which case it must have been a "Loss Leader" like the N7.

"and the rest of them combined"

The only one GN sold in the Play store was the GSM...so assuming Google made some money off that handset (and they may not of) They still should have made more money off that one...and if compared to the plain GSM (Global) you gotta think that the VGN was a sliver of sales.

and thank you for the great podcast, never would have joined this site or switched to Android with out it.

Actual cash in the bank. Google makes nothing from Android "sales". They actually lose money on the project, but it's recouped through the use of their services.

 

[Jerry Hildenbrand]

You misunderstand. Getting all of those licenses is relatively easy, and google hasn't claimed otherwise. Their chief complaint and reason for not including LTE was carriers. Both Verizon and AT&T have policies that allow people to bring their own device as long as they're certified. To date no one has tried to do this on a big enough scale to matter. Google should have, and it's frankly inexcusable that they didn't try.

I'll have to disagree, because the "chief" of the AOSP has specifically said what a pain in the ass it is to deal with network licenses for LTE and CDMA, and how it directly affected the Verizon and Sprint Nexus devices in the Android-building mailing list on numerous occasions. He's very direct, very approachable, and I recommend that every Android enthuisast subscribe to the group

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/android-building

That is the "mess" Google is describing, as told by someone in a position to label it a mess.