1. ngiachin's Avatar
    Update: The Nexus 4 uses the APQ8064 which is the S4 w/o integrated radio. Nothing more to say, there is no LTE, there never will be LTE.

    Doing some research on the S4 Pro, and I only see one sku for the S4 Pro, which includes an integrated LTE radio:

    Snapdragon™ Processors | Qualcomm

    MSM8960T[30]
    28 nm
    ARMv7
    Up To 1.7 GHz Dual-core Krait
    L0: 4KB+4KB, L1: 16KB+16KB, L2: 1 MB
    Adreno 320 (WUXGA/1080p) Dual-channel 500 MHz LPDDR2
    BT 4.0, 802.11a/b/g/n (2.4/5 GHz),
    World Mode (LTE FDD/TDD CAT3, SVLTE-DB, TD-SCDMA, Rel9 DC-HSPA+, GSM/GPRS/EDGE, EGAL, 1 Adv., 1 EV-DO Rev. A/B)

    So the question is, does the Nexus 4 actually have an LTE capable modem in it, but Google decided not to activate it or is there custom silicone in the Nexus with LTE removed? Not sure the specifics of each carriers LTE implementations, but perhaps part of the reason would be to prevent cannibalizing sales on carrier models of the Optimus G?
    11-01-2012 11:47 AM
  2. Rcrdude64's Avatar
    If I'm correct, probably not, all that means is that particular chip plays nicely with LTE radios, it doesn't necessarily mean it has one in it.

    Evil Evo
    11-01-2012 11:54 AM
  3. DirkBelig's Avatar
    No. There are also S4 Pro chips that are only dual-core, so it's not Google pooping in your corn flakes on top of denying you LTE.

    I swear, the way people are crying over the lack of a check box makes me wonder if they'd be less upset if Google came over to their house, ravished their significant other, strangled their pets, and drank all their beer? It doesn't have LTE. Boo hoo. The original iPhone was EDGE-only and somehow it managed to do OK. Learn to cope, kids, or go buy something with the check box and quit crying about the N4.
    Evoken and Inkyape like this.
    11-01-2012 11:54 AM
  4. ngiachin's Avatar
    From Qualcomm's press release, "The S4 class includes the industry's first fully integrated LTE world mode/multimode modem"

    If I'm correct, probably not, all that means is that particular chip plays nicely with LTE radios, it doesn't necessarily mean it has one in it.

    Evil Evo
    11-01-2012 11:55 AM
  5. ngiachin's Avatar
    Doesn't bother me that it doesn't have LTE, I was just curious about the touted integrated LTE modem in the S4...

    No. There are also S4 Pro chips that are only dual-core, so it's not Google pooping in your corn flakes on top of denying you LTE.

    I swear, the way people are crying over the lack of a check box makes me wonder if they'd be less upset if Google came over to their house, ravished their significant other, strangled their pets, and drank all their beer? It doesn't have LTE. Boo hoo. The original iPhone was EDGE-only and somehow it managed to do OK. Learn to cope, kids, or go buy something with the check box and quit crying about the N4.
    11-01-2012 11:57 AM
  6. ngiachin's Avatar
    Check out the data sheet. Totally possible that there's a new SKU used in this phone, but these are the currently released S4 chips. You'll see that the S4 Plus has multiple options for integrated modems, CDMA, LTE, etc. S4 Pro though, only one option w/ integrated modem.

    http://www.qualcomm.com/sites/defaul...specs_9-12.pdf
    11-01-2012 12:02 PM
  7. natehoy's Avatar
    So the question is, does the Nexus 4 actually have an LTE capable modem in it, but Google decided not to activate it or is there custom silicone in the Nexus with LTE removed?
    Sure looks like the former to me.

    Not sure the specifics of each carriers LTE implementations, but perhaps part of the reason would be to prevent cannibalizing sales on carrier models of the Optimus G?
    (assuming the radio is actually CDMA and LTE-capable)

    Possibly because Google wanted to release a full-on pure Nexus device, and leave it up to the aftermarket ROM folks and/or carriers to come out with specialty builds that include the (usually only available in binary) radio drivers for the various carriers who do not use a universally-standard protocol. That'd be my guess.

    Google gets to keep the "Nexus" name on this phone, and anyone who wants to choose a carrier who does not support the concept of a "Nexus" phone can play, but their customers may not get a "Nexus" experience (fast and frequent updates).

    If this is the case, I expect there'll be a Verizon CDMA/LTE, Sprint, and even AT&T GSM/LTE ROM available for this puppy a couple of days after the base source code hits the repositories. But wherever you get your ROM from, be sure it's a group with a solid history of timely updates, because you'll be dependent on them for your updates, not Google.
    11-01-2012 12:03 PM
  8. Woosh's Avatar
    Sure looks like the former to me.



    (assuming the radio is actually CDMA and LTE-capable)

    Possibly because Google wanted to release a full-on pure Nexus device, and leave it up to the aftermarket ROM folks and/or carriers to come out with specialty builds that include the (usually only available in binary) radio drivers for the various carriers who do not use a universally-standard protocol. That'd be my guess.

    Google gets to keep the "Nexus" name on this phone, and anyone who wants to choose a carrier who does not support the concept of a "Nexus" phone can play, but their customers may not get a "Nexus" experience (fast and frequent updates).

    If this is the case, I expect there'll be a Verizon CDMA/LTE, Sprint, and even AT&T GSM/LTE ROM available for this puppy a couple of days after the base source code hits the repositories. But wherever you get your ROM from, be sure it's a group with a solid history of timely updates, because you'll be dependent on them for your updates, not Google.
    I kinda doubt this is the case, but I've been wrong before. But even if this was usable on Verizon or Sprint, they wouldn't activate the phone.
    11-01-2012 12:07 PM
  9. natehoy's Avatar
    I kinda doubt this is the case, but I've been wrong before. But even if this was usable on Verizon or Sprint, they wouldn't activate the phone.
    Drat. I forgot about that "feature", that the carrier needs to be actively involved to use the phone on their network, in addition to getting the drivers for the radio working.
    11-01-2012 12:11 PM
  10. Woosh's Avatar
    Drat. I forgot about that "feature", that the carrier needs to be actively involved to use the phone on their network, in addition to getting the drivers for the radio working.
    Yup, IF the radios are there then its slightly possible to do. But it would be illegal to get it activated on their network.
    11-01-2012 12:15 PM
  11. Andrew Martonik's Avatar
    Just because an SoC supports LTE doesn't mean every device with that chip have LTE.

    The Nexus 4 doesn't have LTE, an LTE radio, or any supporting firmware. It will never have LTE, sorry.

    We went through this with the Verizon Galaxy Nexus (and countless other devices) that people assumed had GSM capability just because the processor supports it. It just isn't the case. I think it stems from everyone wanting the device to magically be something its not, which is pretty sad. If LTE is of paramount importance to you, you'll just have to get one of the many devices that have LTE. Don't expect Google to just be holding out on this feature to be unlocked at a later date. They're not going to do that.
    11-01-2012 04:17 PM
  12. ngiachin's Avatar
    Disclaimer: I don't care if this phone has LTE or not, I'm just trying to start a discussion.

    Your example of the Galaxy Nexus doesn't apply. The OMAP 4460 SoC does not, and did not ever include an integrated radio in the SoC. The S4 SoC, per current production SKU's does not support LTE radios, it includes it. Look at the tech docs and block diagrams.

    I'd be surprised that a modified S4 Pro would be fabricated for a lowish volume phone like this, it simply would be more cost effective to use an available part, but cripple functionality at the software level. I don't think that Google would ever activate LTE even if it does have it, but, I don't think your statement that it doesn't have an LTE radio is based on any supported facts.

    Just because an SoC supports LTE doesn't mean every device with that chip have LTE.

    The Nexus 4 doesn't have LTE, an LTE radio, or any supporting firmware. It will never have LTE, sorry.

    We went through this with the Verizon Galaxy Nexus (and countless other devices) that people assumed had GSM capability just because the processor supports it. It just isn't the case. I think it stems from everyone wanting the device to magically be something its not, which is pretty sad. If LTE is of paramount importance to you, you'll just have to get one of the many devices that have LTE. Don't expect Google to just be holding out on this feature to be unlocked at a later date. They're not going to do that.
    11-01-2012 05:56 PM
  13. TrivialTweeter's Avatar
    The Nexus 4 doesn't have LTE, an LTE radio, or any supporting firmware. It will never have LTE, sorry.

    Don't expect Google to just be holding out on this feature to be unlocked at a later date. They're not going to do that.

    If it sounded like you knew what you were talking about, I might believe you.....but you obviously are clueless....here's why:

    The Snapdragon S4 includes an integrated modem on the chip, which means that Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, FM radio, 2G GSM, HSPA+, EV-DO and LTE are all controlled by a single chip...That's the big benefit, and the main idea behind a System on a Chip (SoC) design. To integrate many of the major components into a single chip. Not needing to have a separate radio chip for LTE, Bluetooth, Wi-Fi, etc.

    So the Nexus 4 definitely has an LTE modem/radio built right into the S4 SoC. It's there, just not being used. You're right about one thing, that the N4 currently does not have firmware to support the LTE features built into the S4 SoC. It's up to Google whether they'll enable the LTE radio through a software update, or not. My fingers are crossed that it will be enabled in the near future. If Google doesn't do it, I'm sure a 3rd party developer will manage to put together a custom ROM with LTE enabled.

    As to why LTE is of paramount importance.....it isn't. Except for Verizon customers. If I was on AT&T or T-Mobile I wouldn't care about the lack of LTE. I'd be happy with HSPA+. However, with it being a GSM/HSPA+ device, that leaves the U.S. CDMA customers (Verizon & Sprint) in the dust. We're the ones complaining about the lack of LTE. If LTE/EV-DO was enabled on this device it could be used on ANY of the US carriers, and not just AT&T and T-Mo.

    Source: Qualcomm Snapdragon S4 - Click on the "Connectivity" tab for info on the Radios.
    11-01-2012 05:57 PM
  14. ngiachin's Avatar
    Does the Nexus 4 have LTE, but Google chose to disable it?-omap4460-block-diagram1.jpg

    Galaxy Nexus SoC omap 4460

    Does the Nexus 4 have LTE, but Google chose to disable it?-msm8960-block-diagram.jpg

    S4 Pro
    11-01-2012 06:01 PM
  15. Andrew Martonik's Avatar
    Disclaimer: I don't care if this phone has LTE or not, I'm just trying to start a discussion.

    Your example of the Galaxy Nexus doesn't apply. The OMAP 4460 SoC does not, and did not ever include an integrated radio in the SoC. The S4 SoC, per current production SKU's does not support LTE radios, it includes it. Look at the tech docs and block diagrams.
    You're right, I incorrectly swapped the use of "processor" and "radio" in terms of the Galaxy Nexus. The same point still stands.

    If it sounded like you knew what you were talking about, I might believe you.....but you obviously are clueless....here's why:

    The Snapdragon S4 includes an integrated modem on the chip, which means that Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, FM radio, 2G GSM, HSPA+, EV-DO and LTE are all controlled by a single chip...That's the big benefit, and the main idea behind a System on a Chip (SoC) design. To integrate many of the major components into a single chip. Not needing to have a separate radio chip for LTE, Bluetooth, Wi-Fi, etc.

    So the Nexus 4 definitely has an LTE modem/radio built right into the S4 SoC. It's there, just not being used. You're right about one thing, that the N4 currently does not have firmware to support the LTE features built into the S4 SoC. It's up to Google whether they'll enable the LTE radio through a software update, or not. My fingers are crossed that it will be enabled in the near future. If Google doesn't do it, I'm sure a 3rd party developer will manage to put together a custom ROM with LTE enabled.
    This again goes back to my point that just because a spec SoC has the radio built in doesn't mean that its active or even capable of being activated in every device that utilizes a variant of that SoC. Even if the LTE radio in the chip was active and simply unused (highly doubtful), bringing LTE to a device is a bit more complicated -- both technologically and from a carrier politics standpoint -- than just pushing an OTA to a device. I also seriously doubt the ability of any single independent developer or group of developers would be able to build the LTE network stacks from scratch (closed source stuff, remember) to enable LTE on this device. This isn't a weekend project kind of thing.

    It's seriously just not going to happen. An LTE Nexus 4 would have to be a completely different SKU, and based on what the members of the Nexus/Android team at Google have said, they don't intend to do this.
    11-01-2012 06:23 PM
  16. vido.ardes's Avatar
    Sorry to sound douchey but this thread is horribly misinformed.

    The Nexus 4 uses a Snapdragon S4 pro APQ8064. The diagram you posted is for a totally different SOC. The S4 Pro in the N4 doesn't have a baseband chip at all (check the data sheet on Qualcomm 's site, no modem at all), you have to add a separate baseband chip.

    It is unknown what baseband chip is in the Nexus 4, but assuming it has the same chip as in the Optimus G, the MDM9615, which does support LTE you still need a third chip specifically to support the R/F for LTE, the RTR8600.

    A quick Google of any of those chip numbers will back up my point, those three chips all appear in both the GSIII and the iPhone 5.

    The fact it has an S4 Pro is proof that it doesn't have LTE, otherwise the could have used the one the OP mentioned. I assume Google persuaded LG to use the cheaper model without a modem, so they could use the modem they wanted and keep costs down, while still allowing LG to make the Optimus LTE compatible and allow them to make several SKU, such as at&t, sprint and Korean model by swapping the baseband instead of the whole SOC.

    Sent from my Incredible S using Tapatalk 2
    Andrew Martonik and Inkyape like this.
    11-01-2012 06:34 PM
  17. ngiachin's Avatar
    Hah, well then, case closed. Thanks for clarifying, I thought it was the MSM8960T. Nothing more to say...

    Sorry to sound douchey but this thread is horribly misinformed.

    The Nexus 4 uses a Snapdragon S4 pro APQ8064. The diagram you posted is for a totally different SOC. The S4 Pro in the N4 doesn't have a baseband chip at all (check the data sheet on Qualcomm 's site, no modem at all), you have to add a separate baseband chip.

    It is unknown what baseband chip is in the Nexus 4, but assuming it has the same chip as in the Optimus G, the MDM9615, which does support LTE you still need a third chip specifically to support the R/F for LTE, the RTR8600.

    A quick Google of any of those chip numbers will back up my point, those three chips all appear in both the GSIII and the iPhone 5.

    The fact it has an S4 Pro is proof that it doesn't have LTE, otherwise the could have used the one the OP mentioned. I assume Google persuaded LG to use the cheaper model without a modem, so they could use the modem they wanted and keep costs down, while still allowing LG to make the Optimus LTE compatible and allow them to make several SKU, such as at&t, sprint and Korean model.

    Sent from my Incredible S using Tapatalk 2
    11-01-2012 06:47 PM
  18. vido.ardes's Avatar
    Please note this also makes it easy for Google to order an LTE model in the future, if they so decide.

    Sent from my Incredible S using Tapatalk 2
    11-01-2012 06:50 PM
  19. philly's Avatar
    No. There are also S4 Pro chips that are only dual-core, so it's not Google pooping in your corn flakes on top of denying you LTE.

    I swear, the way people are crying over the lack of a check box makes me wonder if they'd be less upset if Google came over to their house, ravished their significant other, strangled their pets, and drank all their beer? It doesn't have LTE. Boo hoo. The original iPhone was EDGE-only and somehow it managed to do OK. Learn to cope, kids, or go buy something with the check box and quit crying about the N4.
    I say the word nerd and get an infraction. You go on an angry rant and its cool. What do you mean by check box? And fyi the original iPhone came out a long time ago.. and at the time edge was the fast data. I get it you are an angry blind fanboy but how can you get mad at someone for wanting lte. Fact is this phone could have zero radio and ppl like you would buy it. No idea why people like you don't just buy tablets if all you want is a toy. The nexus 7 is cheaper.
    11-01-2012 07:15 PM
  20. TrivialTweeter's Avatar
    Hah, well then, case closed. Thanks for clarifying, I thought it was the MSM8960T. Nothing more to say...
    I also thought it was using the MSM8960T
    11-01-2012 07:30 PM
  21. Crow1336's Avatar
    Check out the LTE chip in the nexus 4 teardown: Nexus 4 Teardown - iFixit
    Qualcomm WTR1605L Seven-Band 4G LTE chip
    or the ananatech review: AnandTech - Google Nexus 4 Review - Google's new Flagship
    11-16-2012 09:56 PM
  22. Fairclough's Avatar
    For who said they wouldn't make 2 S4 chips one with LTE and one without.
    Xiaomi 2 -> Uses the same chip as the N4... NO LTE! So they definitely have a market as Xiaomi sold out in 2 minutes and its only release in 1 country which doesn't have LTE.
    The chip may support operating LTE but the rest of the phone simply doesn't run or use it.
    11-17-2012 08:12 AM
  23. Andrew Martonik's Avatar
    Check out the LTE chip in the nexus 4 teardown: Nexus 4 Teardown - iFixit
    Qualcomm WTR1605L Seven-Band 4G LTE chip
    or the ananatech review: AnandTech - Google Nexus 4 Review - Google's new Flagship
    http://forums.androidcentral.com/goo...-teardown.html

    The LTE can never be enabled on this device. It's missing several parts of hardware to make it work.
    11-17-2012 01:05 PM
  24. jpprice's Avatar
    Like others have said, although the chip is there its missing the LTE radio and LTE amp which are needed for LTE to work. The Nexus 4 is using the same SOC as the Optimus G which DOES support LTE. It was probably cheaper just to use the same SOC rather than create a new one just for the Nexus 4 when its basically the same phone as the Optimus G.
    11-17-2012 01:16 PM

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