Give 'Em The Finga!
- Thread starter TheUI
- Start date
With competitive marketing I view it creates producers to become more creative to steal the consumers attention. Yeah kicking up the ram is great, but I seriously believe it will cause great innovation, whats next a single clear glass sheet which is a phone. Now I would like to see that created from a innovation war created from a price war. The price war is creating companies like Apple trying to fight to get into the competition again rather then consumers being sheep choose the most known brand, to redefine themselves and innovative, classy, good quality but for value. The value of the price war is allowing us to get what we need without us being sheep and being scammed. I view the price war is great. Yeah business may go under, but in all honesty if China can produce some great technology for minimal other companies should follow.
The points are more poignant to overall value of the article than The Verge's Nexus 4 review. Good article, thanks for sharing.
I thought about this too. I'd be really hard to make competing hardware at the same price. Only Apple can do well in a market owned currently by devices $100 cheaper then it. It seems pretty impossible to make a 7 inch tablet near the cost of the Nexus with specs matching it (while trying to make a profit). Especially since the Nexus has another thing going for it that NO other Andoid tablet has, updates from Google. Now you can either get a cheaper, better tablet that gets updates from Google or a more expensive (even by a couple of bucks), worse tablet that has to wait longer for updates. Good for the consumers pockets but bad because there is lack of competition (besides from Apple and to an extent, Amazon and B&N).
Xiaomi (Chinese) produces a phone similar to the Nexus 4. Sold out its 1st patch in 2 minutes. Competition is what makes it what it is, then again the company decided to make a loss on purpose to undermine its competition in China. SO for the users thats one huge plus, for them it builds a fan base and for the competition well they just have to get more competitive.
How Google and Amazon make their money is much different than how a company like HTC makes their money.
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DirkBelig
Well-known member
The comments there are pretty much unanimous in their disdain for the thesis of the article and I'm in agreement. I've never understood it when supposedly intelligent people burp up nonsense that it's a terrible thing that consumers are able to get better products for lower prices with greater choices. The whole piece can be summed up in one sentence: "Apple mustn't be forced to compete and have their historic profits and stock price diminished!!!" The author is one of those people who believes that technology falls into super-premium elite stuff at a super-premium elite price and the crap stupid and poor people buy at Walmart and we all know what qualifies as the first category.
When the first iPod was introduced, it was $500 and only 5GB and I argued that as neat a gadget as it was, it was too expensive and even then there were iSnobs who felt that it was a good thing that Apple had such a high price because to them it was a status symbol, a Mercedes for the elite while the proletariat could suck it with their Diamond Rio Chevys. I believe tech should be as commoditized for the masses because it's better to have more tech in more hands, broadening the market. (Dollar stores don't put Neiman-Marcus out of business, you know?)
Apple's endless patent trolling, especially against Samsung, belies the weakness that underlies their lofty perch in the financial markets: They can't really innovate and their entire business model is based on extremely high-priced, high-margin status toys and every challenger threatens their image and bottom line. Steve Jobs may've been very good at taking other people's ideas - there's a great video about how Apple doesn't really "invent" anything so much as polish the heck out of others innovations and then claim credit for inventing it (e.g. Facetime) - but once they've made an initial breakthrough, they can't really do anything genuinely new and fresh. They basically have one product, the iPod Touch, and just added a phone radio or made it larger to come up with the iPhone and iPad. Other than adding a high-resolution screen and making them incrementally faster and thinner, what has Apple actually done in the five years since the originally iPhone? This is why they're desperately suing Samsung and demanding more than money, but for governments to not allow them to sell anything that may provide customers a choice and the Engadget hack is attempting to use specious arguments to advance that cause. He's failed.
While watching the livebogs of the iPad Mini announcement, the big question mark that hung over the whole show was what this me-too product would cost. If they had come in at $279 or $249, they would've seriously torpedoed Amazon and the Nexus 7 because it would be a small premium to buy the status symbol tablet. I've long believed that if you offered people a MacBook Pro for $1000 without the glowing logo on the lid or $1500 with it, iSheep would pay the five bills to let the world know how cool they were, since it's not really the tech they're desirous of; $30 more than a N7 is nothing. But because of Apple's luxury pricing and profit needs, they had to come in at $339 and deep sighs of relief were heard at Amazon and Google because Apple could've killed them and instead will probably cannibalize $500 iPad sales. Amazon had their best Kindle Fire sales day after the iPad Mini was announced.
Which brings us to the Nexus 4. Why is the tech press hammering the lack of LTE so hard? A: Because it distracts from the fact that Google and LG are tag-teaming to blow a serious hole in the traditional - and to consumers very costly - subsidized phone market racket between makers and carriers. Very few people can afford to pay the off-contract price, so the "savings" they get by signing on for two years of expensive phone service (which is where the real costs are) are illusory. It's like those rent-to-own places where you "only pay X dollars per week" but end up playing double or triple what the cash price may've been. (My g/f asked me when the iPhone was still newish why I hadn't gotten one and I told her it was because I couldn't justify $110+ per month for the service; the phone itself was the cheapest aspect.) $199 may not seem like much, but a few months ago a friend got an iPhone 4 because it was only $99. I tried to talk her out of getting one, either wait for the iPhone 5 or get a 4S, but $99 was all she could scrape up and she'll be stuck with it until the iPhone 7 is imminent.
So along comes a phone with top shelf specs and a bargain-basement price and, most importantly, no requirement that you sign your life away to a carrier for two years and allows users to choose from prepaid month-to-month plans from MVNOs for half or even a third of what traditional contracts cost. And according to Engadget this is a BAD thing?!?!? WTFF?!?!? The CNET review boiled down to "pay double to get LTE on an unlocked phone" as if most people can afford $700 for a GS3. Since the HOX and iPhone don't have SD and removable batteries, lacking LTE has been the thin reed upon which demonizing the Nexus 4 hangs upon. But the real question is whether LTE speeds are worth paying double for a phone and service. I was going to get a GS3 on AT&T but am now getting a N4 and will use AT&T's airwaves for half the cost which will save me over $900 over two years. I'm supposed to feel bad for Apple, I mean Acer because they can't make enough against the Nexus line? Spare me. I've got $900 in my pocket to spend; I'm busy.
What really panics Apple and by extension Mr. Fingas is that it's awfully hard to charge twice as much for things that aren't arguably twice as good. Is the Nexus 4 only half as good as an iPhone or GS3? Is the Nexus 7 only half as good as an iPad? No and no, but Apple's predominance requires that everyone believe they're worth paying double, but as the Kindle Fire delivered far more than 40% of an iPad, status (symbol) quo seekers are now worried that the Nexus 4 will chip away at more of the old ways. A phone that delivers 90% of the features for 50% of the price is a problem if people choose value over status.
When the first iPod was introduced, it was $500 and only 5GB and I argued that as neat a gadget as it was, it was too expensive and even then there were iSnobs who felt that it was a good thing that Apple had such a high price because to them it was a status symbol, a Mercedes for the elite while the proletariat could suck it with their Diamond Rio Chevys. I believe tech should be as commoditized for the masses because it's better to have more tech in more hands, broadening the market. (Dollar stores don't put Neiman-Marcus out of business, you know?)
Apple's endless patent trolling, especially against Samsung, belies the weakness that underlies their lofty perch in the financial markets: They can't really innovate and their entire business model is based on extremely high-priced, high-margin status toys and every challenger threatens their image and bottom line. Steve Jobs may've been very good at taking other people's ideas - there's a great video about how Apple doesn't really "invent" anything so much as polish the heck out of others innovations and then claim credit for inventing it (e.g. Facetime) - but once they've made an initial breakthrough, they can't really do anything genuinely new and fresh. They basically have one product, the iPod Touch, and just added a phone radio or made it larger to come up with the iPhone and iPad. Other than adding a high-resolution screen and making them incrementally faster and thinner, what has Apple actually done in the five years since the originally iPhone? This is why they're desperately suing Samsung and demanding more than money, but for governments to not allow them to sell anything that may provide customers a choice and the Engadget hack is attempting to use specious arguments to advance that cause. He's failed.
While watching the livebogs of the iPad Mini announcement, the big question mark that hung over the whole show was what this me-too product would cost. If they had come in at $279 or $249, they would've seriously torpedoed Amazon and the Nexus 7 because it would be a small premium to buy the status symbol tablet. I've long believed that if you offered people a MacBook Pro for $1000 without the glowing logo on the lid or $1500 with it, iSheep would pay the five bills to let the world know how cool they were, since it's not really the tech they're desirous of; $30 more than a N7 is nothing. But because of Apple's luxury pricing and profit needs, they had to come in at $339 and deep sighs of relief were heard at Amazon and Google because Apple could've killed them and instead will probably cannibalize $500 iPad sales. Amazon had their best Kindle Fire sales day after the iPad Mini was announced.
Which brings us to the Nexus 4. Why is the tech press hammering the lack of LTE so hard? A: Because it distracts from the fact that Google and LG are tag-teaming to blow a serious hole in the traditional - and to consumers very costly - subsidized phone market racket between makers and carriers. Very few people can afford to pay the off-contract price, so the "savings" they get by signing on for two years of expensive phone service (which is where the real costs are) are illusory. It's like those rent-to-own places where you "only pay X dollars per week" but end up playing double or triple what the cash price may've been. (My g/f asked me when the iPhone was still newish why I hadn't gotten one and I told her it was because I couldn't justify $110+ per month for the service; the phone itself was the cheapest aspect.) $199 may not seem like much, but a few months ago a friend got an iPhone 4 because it was only $99. I tried to talk her out of getting one, either wait for the iPhone 5 or get a 4S, but $99 was all she could scrape up and she'll be stuck with it until the iPhone 7 is imminent.
So along comes a phone with top shelf specs and a bargain-basement price and, most importantly, no requirement that you sign your life away to a carrier for two years and allows users to choose from prepaid month-to-month plans from MVNOs for half or even a third of what traditional contracts cost. And according to Engadget this is a BAD thing?!?!? WTFF?!?!? The CNET review boiled down to "pay double to get LTE on an unlocked phone" as if most people can afford $700 for a GS3. Since the HOX and iPhone don't have SD and removable batteries, lacking LTE has been the thin reed upon which demonizing the Nexus 4 hangs upon. But the real question is whether LTE speeds are worth paying double for a phone and service. I was going to get a GS3 on AT&T but am now getting a N4 and will use AT&T's airwaves for half the cost which will save me over $900 over two years. I'm supposed to feel bad for Apple, I mean Acer because they can't make enough against the Nexus line? Spare me. I've got $900 in my pocket to spend; I'm busy.
What really panics Apple and by extension Mr. Fingas is that it's awfully hard to charge twice as much for things that aren't arguably twice as good. Is the Nexus 4 only half as good as an iPhone or GS3? Is the Nexus 7 only half as good as an iPad? No and no, but Apple's predominance requires that everyone believe they're worth paying double, but as the Kindle Fire delivered far more than 40% of an iPad, status (symbol) quo seekers are now worried that the Nexus 4 will chip away at more of the old ways. A phone that delivers 90% of the features for 50% of the price is a problem if people choose value over status.
Slender Troll
Well-known member
Oh, we should understand their heartache.
If someone just bought an iphone 5 off contract for $800, they'd be pissed if you show up flaunting a quad-core, 2 GB RAM device that you paid only $300.
iCries from iBabies. Weep weep.. sob..sob... I need a hug
If someone just bought an iphone 5 off contract for $800, they'd be pissed if you show up flaunting a quad-core, 2 GB RAM device that you paid only $300.
iCries from iBabies. Weep weep.. sob..sob... I need a hug
Woosh
Well-known member
Looking solely at the tablet side of this, He has a somewhat point. I rly doubt these things are "at cost" and they are almost certainly making some sort of profit. If not now, they will after a certain amount are sold to recoup the cost to develop it.
The problem I see, is that they entered tablets too soon. Not only that but they priced them against an iPad. They added a few new features like expandable storage, hdmi, etc. and said our product is as good as theirs.....give us $600. It was a terrible idea, they should have started at a price to get to the masses and then eventually said OK our name is out there lets see what we can do from here on out. The makers have nobody to blame but themselves imo and they no doubt tarnished a little bit of the Android ecosystem with tablets from certain consumer standpoints. Idk if Google specifically waited for this time to get in because it was convenient or they decided to change directions but no doubt the N7 is the best tablet experience I've ever owned. They made it right.
Eventually I can see things taking the direction that the phone has taken, OEMs adding skins to stand out. Adding features that are useful to the user. Much like the Note tablet does. So its a possibility that we haven't seen the last of most of these makers. I think there is a market here that they can take advantage of as technology goes along and gets faster and cheaper. No doubt most ppl are now either considering a tablet or thinking its worth purchasing in the future. Its also not entirely like a laptop, prices seem cheaper and ppl are willing to pony up the money to get their kids one or have a spare one for their kids to have. Its an item that no doubt has a function in a household, so I don't see these tablet sales dropping anytime soon.
The problem I see, is that they entered tablets too soon. Not only that but they priced them against an iPad. They added a few new features like expandable storage, hdmi, etc. and said our product is as good as theirs.....give us $600. It was a terrible idea, they should have started at a price to get to the masses and then eventually said OK our name is out there lets see what we can do from here on out. The makers have nobody to blame but themselves imo and they no doubt tarnished a little bit of the Android ecosystem with tablets from certain consumer standpoints. Idk if Google specifically waited for this time to get in because it was convenient or they decided to change directions but no doubt the N7 is the best tablet experience I've ever owned. They made it right.
Eventually I can see things taking the direction that the phone has taken, OEMs adding skins to stand out. Adding features that are useful to the user. Much like the Note tablet does. So its a possibility that we haven't seen the last of most of these makers. I think there is a market here that they can take advantage of as technology goes along and gets faster and cheaper. No doubt most ppl are now either considering a tablet or thinking its worth purchasing in the future. Its also not entirely like a laptop, prices seem cheaper and ppl are willing to pony up the money to get their kids one or have a spare one for their kids to have. Its an item that no doubt has a function in a household, so I don't see these tablet sales dropping anytime soon.
One of the best things anyone has said here regarding this STUPID LTE argument/"CON" of the Nexus 4. It's NOT! I find it sooo laughable on the CNET review, the chick said that lacking LTE was so bad and things like YouTube/browser loaded slowly. Yet in the actual video when she says this she's bringing up YouTube and the Internet and both took maybe 1.5-2secs to bring up. Pa-leeze. It's like everyone is soooo enamored in the US with LTE and NO other technology is good enough??? Again, it's been proven over and over that it all friggin depends where you are. LTE can be SLOW (gasp!) in certain areas and yes, it can blow the doors of HPSA+ in another. But does that mean LTE is the best? NO, PERIOD.
Just getting sick and tired of the LTE rants. If you love it that much, then the Nexus 4 is NOT FOR YOU and go back to your lovely VZW and keep getting the shaft for gladly overpaying each month and getting those LTE speeds and having to buy extended batteries to survive a day. LMAO!
There has been massive marketing campaigns to push LTE into our daily vocabulary. I find it funny when some one not technically savvy drops a LTE, 3G, 4G in a conversation.
This might just be the best post I've read on any message board, on any topic, ever. Bravissimo, sir.
Slender Troll
Well-known member
Your right, LTE has been "pushed" into our vocabulary and while it has some good points, it's not the end of be all smartphone technology, like a lot of people here think. I find it hilarious myself. Me not technically savvy? Pa-leeze! LOL
I'll be chiming in later with my feelings on this situation. It has a lot to do carriers and conglomerates.
Sent from my MB855 using Android Central Forums
Sent from my MB855 using Android Central Forums
Also; Slender Troll is on a thanks rampage - and I like that.
I "started" a group called "Generation Nexus" (check my profile) you should join, Slender.
Sent from my MB855 using Android Central Forums
I "started" a group called "Generation Nexus" (check my profile) you should join, Slender.
Sent from my MB855 using Android Central Forums
Slender Troll
Well-known member
I'll just add this here: Outside of Google Play's reach, Nexus 4 pricing may not be so sweet | Android Central
KentuckyHouse
Well-known member
DirkBelig, I didn't want to quote your whole post, so I just grabbed a bit of it. But I just wanted to say this...
You, sir, are my new hero. Your post should be required reading. Kudos and thank you for stating in perfect English what a lot of us were thinking.
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