The real reason why the current Nexus 4 will never get LTE

[Nasko]

First off I have the N4 and would love to have official LTE support. However I know why it will not happen for the model that is already on sale.

Basically to use LTE certain hardware the OEM has to pay standard essentiall parents to its inventors. These include Qualcomm, Nokia, Motorola and many others that i am not aware of. I am sure those add up to at least 40$ per unit. I know for a fact for example that t CDMA and 3G patents used to cost around 60$ per unit about 5 years ago, probably cheaper now, but LTE is a whole new and separate pool of patents.

So if LTE is to be supported officially Google will have to back-pay for those patents on all units sold. Every one who thinks this will happen is wrong, simply because the phone is sold at cost. The reason why LTE even works is because Qualcomm chips have the capability on the die, and cannot remove it. So if the OEM doesn't want LTE, they promise not to support it and therefore don't pay for it, even though it is physically on the phone.

Now if Google releases an LTE Nexus 4 it will be more expensive, probably 400$ starting price. The old models will never get the support for it from Google or anyone else. Its not because of T-Mobile or ATT or anyone else. It is because of the money Google would owe to Qualcomm for enabling. FCC certification would be the easy and cheap part of this.

I am writing this before I/O and I know of the rumors of LTE N4 so then i can say I knew it and can prove it. .

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[RumoredNow]

That sounds true to life...

Thanks for the post.

 

[CoMoNexus]

You're right that IP is a major consideration. But so is hardware, which is why I still don't understand why Google/LG paid a premium for LTE when there were plenty of chipsets that maxed out at HSPA+.

Also, I've never heard of a device OEM paying license fees directly to an IP holder. I thought the chipset vendor paid that and then built that cost into its hardware. Is that not the case?

 

[Rizy7]

Are you sure your figures are correct? Also, Google might release it as a 32gb nexus with lte. I think they can easily sell it for an extra 50 dollars and people will still buy it. Im pretty sure an extra 16gb wont cost google that much anyway.

 

[Tall Mike 2145]

@OP, you do realize the dollar sign comes first, right?

 

[cordoni]

Also, I've never heard of a device OEM paying license fees directly to an IP holder. I thought the chipset vendor paid that and then built that cost into its hardware. Is that not the case?

You are correct.

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[gone down south]

@OP, you do realize the dollar sign comes first, right?

Not in Europe.

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[return_0]

You're right that IP is a major consideration. But so is hardware, which is why I still don't understand why Google/LG paid a premium for LTE when there were plenty of chipsets that maxed out at HSPA+.

Because it's cheaper to use the Optimus G's internals instead of making separate hardware for each phone.

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[TheLibertarian]

Not in Europe.

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What about Los Angeles?

 

[Nasko]

Sorry originally from Europe. That's how I am used to ... Lol

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[Nasko]

The S4 pro comes built into the die with LTE, you only pay for it if you want it. If not, sign the contract that you won't use and you don't pay for it.

For example i have a PC with AMD 3 core processor which is actually quadcore, but with one disabled at discount price. The deal with N4 is basically the same.

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[Nasko]

Of course i am not 100% percents sure, however given the device is sold at or below cost, any added cost to already sold units would be even bigger loss.

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[Nasko]

Yeah, but the chipset vendor pays licensing on the technology it sells, in this case they are not selling LTE so they don't have to charge for it and thus offer lower price.

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[Aquila]

So is the premise that Qualcomm is charging Google/LG a lesser rate for the same chip that is in the LGOG than they charge LG for it without Google?

 

[Nasko]

Wow the new app doesn't post replies correctly and it all came out without the quotes. I am in LA, but habits die hard. Hopefully my post will make sense to the people I intended to reply.

P.S. Please fix the reply in the app.

 

[Nasko]

So is the premise that Qualcomm is charging Google/LG a lesser rate for the same chip that is in the LGOG than they charge LG for it without Google?

Yes, basically that is what I mean. The IP holders don't have standing to ask for money just because the phone is capable of LTE, when the OEM has contracted not to use their IP.

 

[CoMoNexus]

Yeah, but the chipset vendor pays licensing on the technology it sells, in this case they are not selling LTE so they don't have to charge for it and thus offer lower price.

That still doesn't make sense when Google/LG could have used a chipset that didn't include LTE, which has a premium of about $40 over chipsets that top out at HSPA+. That would be like an automaker specing a V8 and then running it on only six cylinders.

Because it's cheaper to use the Optimus G's internals instead of making separate hardware for each phone.

Maybe, but I'm skeptical that doing another spin to accommodate another chip and RF front end would have cost more than ~$40/phone.

 

[return_0]

That still doesn't make sense when Google/LG could have used a chipset that didn't include LTE, which has a premium of about $40 over chipsets that top out at HSPA+. That would be like an automaker specing a V8 and then running it on only six cylinders.



Maybe, but I'm skeptical that doing another spin to accommodate another chip and RF front end would have cost more than ~$40/phone.

My impression from the OP was that you have to use the LTE to pay the premium. Google didn't have to pay it because LTE is disabled by default on the N4.

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[omniusovermind]

No big deal where I live. My co-worker's GS3 on Rogers LTE usually tops out at 30 mbps. My Nexus 4 on Bell tops out at 22 because they use DC HSPA. He got real pissed off when I ribbed him about his LTE only pulling 8 mbps faster lol

 

[CoMoNexus]

My impression from the OP was that you have to use the LTE to pay the premium. Google didn't have to pay it because LTE is disabled by default on the N4.

I've been working in wireless since 1998, and this thread was the first time I heard about a device OEM not only paying royalties based on what it uses, but also paying it directly to the IP holder rather than its RF vendor. Also, the LTE premium isn't just the IP; it's also the hardware itself (e.g., filters, discretes, PAs).

Handsets are a cutthroat business. That's why OEMs scrutinize every penny. Google and LG put LTE in the N4 for a reason, but either that reason no longer makes business sense, or they're planning to activate LTE at some point. We'll see.