As a Mac user, how locked am I to the Apple ecosystem? The answer turns out to be "very."

[dc9super80]

Re: As a Mac user, how locked am I to the Apple ecosystem? The answer turns out to be "very."

Google or Apple are both ecosystems in which you can be locked. If you are worried about that, apart from apps try to get your services from third parties. I use a Mac and an iPhone, but I use a nexus 7. My email is from Google, my docs are on SkyDrive, my books on kindle. I buy my music from iTunes and can get them over should I need to, but I don't usually listen to music on my tablet.

You can live between platforms. I like both, and refused to be tied completely to either.

Tapatalking on the N7....

 

[carbon fibre]

Re: As a Mac user, how locked am I to the Apple ecosystem? The answer turns out to be "very."

For some reason your experience is different from mine. When I restored from iCloud backups in the past there were many things different - icons were not in the same position, I needed to re-enter my wifi password and some other login information was lost.

However, when I restore from the encrypted manual backup on my computer is does turn out to be a 100% replicated restore.

I can't explain why my experience might be different from yours though.

In iTunes itself, with my iPhone 5 connected, for iCloud backup it just says, "Backup the most important data on your iPhone to iCloud." That doesn't sound like a complete backup to me. And just below it there is the option for backup to your computer instead where it says, "A full backup of your iPhone will be stored on this computer."

Those sound like two different levels of backup, which is what I experience as well.

doug

WiFi passwords and login information are "device settings" and are backed up.
Icons in the same position are "Home screen and app organization" and are also backed up.

Sounds like you have a problem with your icloud backups. I would contact Apple support before you get bitten in an emergency.

Edit: Just noticed that you seem to connect your iPhone by USB to your computer and trigger an icloud backup from iTunes. Why don't you just set it up to automatically backup when connected to a charger? Shouldn't make a difference, but the sentence you quoted is not displayed in the direct iCloud backups I do nightly and that resulted in 3 perfect restores.

Note again that what little music and video I keep on my devices (big fan of streaming services) is purchased from Apple.

 

[douglerner]

Re: As a Mac user, how locked am I to the Apple ecosystem? The answer turns out to be "very."

WiFi passwords and login information are "device settings" and are backed up.
Icons in the same position are "Home screen and app organization" and are also backed up.

Sounds like you have a problem with your icloud backups. I would contact Apple support before you get bitten in an emergency.

I actually did contact them. They told me what I mentioned: that "only the most important things are backed up" with an iCloud backup and that if restoring from that it is normal to have to re-enter such things as the wifi password and re-adjust the icon positions. What can I say? I don't know why your experience is different from mine.

Why do you suppose it says in the iTunes setting that one is a "backup of the most important data" and the other is "a full backup" if they truly are the same? And what about the free iCloud 5 GB limit?

In the latest iTunes "Help" it explains it this way:

When you connect your iPod touch, iPhone, or iPad to your computer, certain files and settings on your device are automatically backed up to your computer. You can restore this information to your device if you need to (if you get a new iPhone, for example, and want to transfer your previous settings to it).

Automatically backed-up information includes text messages, notes, call history, contact favorites, sound settings, widget settings, and more. In addition, photos in Camera Roll or Saved Photos are also backed up. Other media files (such as songs, videos, and some photos) aren?t backed up, but can be restored by syncing with iTunes

That is my experience as well. I don't know why it is different from your experience. The only thing that occurs to me is that perhaps "the most important data" is all you are actually have on your device so it seems the same to you, while I simply have more stuff on my iPhone 5. That would explain the difference.

doug

 

[carbon fibre]

Re: As a Mac user, how locked am I to the Apple ecosystem? The answer turns out to be "very."

I actually did contact them. They told me what I mentioned: that "only the most important things are backed up" with an iCloud backup and that if restoring from that it is normal to have to re-enter such things as the wifi password and re-adjust the icon positions. What can I say? I don't know why your experience is different from mine.

Why do you suppose it says in the iTunes setting that one is a "backup of the most important data" and the other is "a full backup" if they truly are the same? And what about the free iCloud 5 GB limit?

In the latest iTunes "Help" it explains it this way:



That is my experience as well. I don't know why it is different from your experience. The only thing that occurs to me is that perhaps "the most important data" is all you are actually have on your device so it seems the same to you, while I simply have more stuff on my iPhone 5. That would explain the difference.

doug

Interesting that you keep quoting iTunes docs. In support doc PH2584 (iCloud: iCloud Backup), it clearly states that among other things:
Device settings
App data
Home screen and app organization

are backed up. How do you reconcile your report of scrambled icon positions and lost passwords with that information? You can read the KB yourself and I also listed the backup categories a few posts prior to this. All that information, AKA all the information on my idevices (I do not keep non Apple music or videos on my devices, preferring to stream most material) is perfectly restored.

As far as Apple's less than generous 5 GB allowance (I pay for 10 GB extra), since apps, music and videos are all available directly from Apple during a restore, that keeps the backup size down. Vids can be several GB and individual apps can be over a GB as well.

 

[douglerner]

Re: As a Mac user, how locked am I to the Apple ecosystem? The answer turns out to be "very."

Interesting that you keep quoting iTunes docs. In support doc PH2584 (iCloud: iCloud Backup), it clearly states that among other things:
Device settings
App data
Home screen and app organization

are backed up. How do you reconcile your report of scrambled icon positions and lost passwords with that information? You can read the KB yourself and I also listed the backup categories a few posts prior to this. All that information, AKA all the information on my idevices (I do not keep non Apple music or videos on my devices, preferring to stream most material) is perfectly restored.

As far as Apple's less than generous 5 GB allowance (I pay for 10 GB extra), since apps, music and videos are all available directly from Apple during a restore, that keeps the backup size down. Vids can be several GB and individual apps can be over a GB as well.

Well, maybe it's changed since I last tried a restore from iCloud backup. That could also explain it. Still, inside the latest iTunes why does the iCloud option specifically say "backup of the most important data" while the backup to your computer say "a full backup"? Why don't both say "a full backup" if it's a full backup? There must be some distinction, don't you think?

Doug

 

[douglerner]

Re: As a Mac user, how locked am I to the Apple ecosystem? The answer turns out to be "very."

All that information, AKA all the information on my idevices (I do not keep non Apple music or videos on my devices, preferring to stream most material) is perfectly restored.

Well, I called Apple to try to settle it. Maybe Apple phone support is as bad as Google phone support sometimes because the tech person had to go back and forth and "check with somebody several times" but she said the difference is that iCloud backups do not back up several things, such as non-Apple-purchased music or videos, and some other items, whereas the full backup will backup everything on your iPhone 5. So it certainly can't hurt to keep a full back too from time to time. I would certainly recommend it before a device change (if possible).

You mentioned you do not keep non Apple music on your device, which might explain why it seems all ok to you. Most of my music actually came from CD imports. So in my case there could be a large difference. Certainly before a device change I would want to do a complete backup on my computer and not depend on iCloud to restore everything. (It's also way faster for a complete restore - but that's a different topic).

There was something else not backed up in iCloud I didn't catch, something about "initially synchronized photos from your computer" - but I'm not sure what she meant by that and am not sure she understood either. However, there is a distinction between what is backed up via iCloud and via the full backup to your computer.

When I upgraded from my iPhone 4 to my iPhone 5 I initially tried to restore from my iCloud backup and it was taking forever and clearly not getting everything. So I did a full backup of my iPhone 4 onto my computer and restored that to my new iPhone 5 and all was well.

But since this is the Nexus 7 2013 forum, just getting back to my original point since discovering that the Nexus also makes cloud backups of "mostly everything" in a way that makes it "not too difficult to recover," while I admit the iTunes solution, even with iCloud, is better and more comprehensive, the backup issue doesn't seem to be a serious, show-stopper issue to me anymore as regards the Nexus 7.

doug

 

[johnnylighton]

Re: As a Mac user, how locked am I to the Apple ecosystem? The answer turns out to be "very."

The lack of a built-in, complete backup scheme similar to what iTunes offers is infuriating. WTF is wrong with you, Google? Can't you take what's good about iOS and duplicate it in Android?

On my Galaxy S3, I have root and Titanium Backup Pro, and do not trust that it will do what I need it to if/when I need a backup. There are too many options. On iTunes, there is one: "Backup." If you restore to a phone that had to have a factory reset, or a phone that was replaced, it's "your" phone again as soon as the restore is complete. I don't even have the time to try to figure out how to reliably accomplish that with Titanium, and I have no desire to root my N7.

Infuriating.

 

[anon(5719825)]

Re: As a Mac user, how locked am I to the Apple ecosystem? The answer turns out to be "very."

I have restored twice to new iPhone hardware and once to new iPad hardware using iCloud backup. In all three cases I went to the Apple store, got the the replacement hardware, came home and started the restore. A couple of hours later I had perfect restores. All mail and settings from 3 accounts. Everything. The thing that surprised me the first time is that I have this password protected app to keep encrypted credit card numbers etc. I opened the app, typed the password and it opened up to show all the data perfectly preserved.

Perfect, complete restores all three times. That is peace of mind that is worth a lot to me.

I gotta agree. I have used every iPhone since the original except for the iPhone 5 and now I also have an iPad Mini. Only in the very beginning early months of that original iPhone did I have partial backup restored. I don't know what happened but it has not happened since. I have text messages on my current iPhone going all the back to July of 2007.

Like douglerner, I have a pretty nice collection of movies, 212 of them now and a huge collection of TV shows. I don't have cable TV or Satellite and don't want to pay $75 per month to watch 2-3 channels when I was already buying my weekly shows in iTunes. I have always preferred to do this and will continue to do so.

I also bought a Nexus 7 to finally get that Android experience but I likely would never have bought it had I bought an iPad Mini first. I like my Mini that much, it's an amazing device to me. My two iPhones are unlocked just as the Mini is so I can use them on any GSM carrier and I like that My Nexus 7 and Nexus 4 are as well. I like that freedom almost as I like that I can add whatever I want on the Nexus devices that I have but I also don't mind having to use iTunes for my iPhones/iPad.

I have a program that I bought for my Mac called Tune4Mac iTunes video converter. It will take any iTunes purchased movie and TV show and convert it to another format minus the copyright protection so that it can be played on anything. It works very well, the quality is pretty much identical to the original and the file sizes sometime are the same but sometimes smaller. It's a paid app. Maybe that will help you with the purchases.

 

[Grahame Pollock]

Re: As a Mac user, how locked am I to the Apple ecosystem? The answer turns out to be "very."

Right. I want to be able to sync some things like photos (and preserve photo albums) and music. And it would be really reassuring to have a standard way of backing up and restoring. But inside my Nexus I am perfectly happy with "letting it be a Nexus."

doug

You can use cloud storage to sync the files on the 2 devices.

I sync my photos from the imac to the smartphone using "copy"

 

[douglerner]

Re: As a Mac user, how locked am I to the Apple ecosystem? The answer turns out to be "very."

You can use cloud storage to sync the files on the 2 devices.

I sync my photos from the imac to the smartphone using "copy"

The only thing about using cloud storage is that my photo albums are in iPhoto. So I have to export the albums from iPhoto to the cloud storage (e.g. a Dropbox folder) which duplicates content. But perhaps I can give up iPhoto and use Picasa instead, or something else for photo management.

I'm surprised nobody talked about Picasa here. I thought that was the main Google photo management application. Is that not true anymore?

doug

 

[Farish]

Re: As a Mac user, how locked am I to the Apple ecosystem? The answer turns out to be "very."

The only thing about using cloud storage is that my photo albums are in iPhoto. So I have to export the albums from iPhoto to the cloud storage (e.g. a Dropbox folder) which duplicates content. But perhaps I can give up iPhoto and use Picasa instead, or something else for photo management.

I'm surprised nobody talked about Picasa here. I thought that was the main Google photo management application. Is that not true anymore?

doug

Until Google did their unified storage Picasa only gave you 1gb of storage for free. Also in order to get unlimited storage in Google Plus you have to allow the resolution of your pictures to be shrunk.

The way Google has been improving Google + photo enhancement and other photo related features (This is just speculation), I wouldn't be surprised if Picasa doesn't get shuttered in the future as they have done with other projects like Messenger/Talk replaced with Hangouts.

 

[douglerner]

Re: As a Mac user, how locked am I to the Apple ecosystem? The answer turns out to be "very."

Until Google did their unified storage Picasa only gave you 1gb of storage for free. Also in order to get unlimited storage in Google Plus you have to allow the resolution of your pictures to be shrunk.

The way Google has been improving Google + photo enhancement and other photo related features (This is just speculation), I wouldn't be surprised if Picasa doesn't get shuttered in the future as they have done with other projects like Messenger/Talk replaced with Hangouts.

I feel uncomfortable using Google+ as a photo repository because it's basically a place for sharing and I don't want to accidentally share my photos.

I was surprised about the Messenger/Talk Hangouts thing. I didn't notice that until today when I got messaged on my Nexus and didn't even know I was online there in a GoogleTalk account I set up on my Mac. I could reply, but still don't see how to get there to begin with.

doug

 

[DrWu]

Re: As a Mac user, how locked am I to the Apple ecosystem? The answer turns out to be "very."

You are basically just rehashing my argument against anyone getting themselves involved in the Apple Ecosystem to begin with. I have been preaching this for a decade - long before Android was even a thing I would exude the virtues of music services that provided files that could be played on any device - not just iPods. The problem then was the iPod was just so much better than anything else available - now that they no longer hold the distinction of having the best hardware - Apple's biggest asset is that they have locked you and everyone who has ever downloaded music or movies into never leaving Apple. You're stuck. "Good Guy Apple" would go ahead and release an "iTunes for Android" app and that would solve all of your issues. Apple obviously wouldn't do that because they're not "Good", in fact, they suck. They want to be your sole provider of content. they want to control it, they want to control you, they always have, that has been their end game for the past 20 years.

The good news is - They are losing the battle - every day we see reports that Apple is losing market share, someday I hope they are forced to release something along the lines of "itunes for android" in order to just stay in the content provider game. Some day.

 

[Farish]

Re: As a Mac user, how locked am I to the Apple ecosystem? The answer turns out to be "very."

You are basically just rehashing my argument against anyone getting themselves involved in the Apple Ecosystem to begin with. I have been preaching this for a decade - long before Android was even a thing I would exude the virtues of music services that provided files that could be played on any device - not just iPods. The problem then was the iPod was just so much better than anything else available - now that they no longer hold the distinction of having the best hardware - Apple's biggest asset is that they have locked you and everyone who has ever downloaded music or movies into never leaving Apple. You're stuck. "Good Guy Apple" would go ahead and release an "iTunes for Android" app and that would solve all of your issues. Apple obviously wouldn't do that because they're not "Good", in fact, they suck. They want to be your sole provider of content. they want to control it, they want to control you, they always have, that has been their end game for the past 20 years.

The good news is - They are losing the battle - every day we see reports that Apple is losing market share, someday I hope they are forced to release something along the lines of "itunes for android" in order to just stay in the content provider game. Some day.

Music and Movies have DRM because of the industries themselves. Here for example an article back in 2008 talking about how when Apple approached the music industry, this was required of them.

How Apple is changing DRM | Technology | The Guardian

When Apple approached record companies about selling their music digitally five years ago, they "were extremely cautious and required Apple to protect their music from being illegally copied",

The one of the reasons why the music industry got rid of DRM was because they realize that Apple was becoming too large and they need more competition from different stores but DRM was becoming an unintended roadblock.

As soon as the music industry got rid of DRM as a whole, Apple got rid of it also.

Movies is the same way. Vudu, Google Play, iTunes, have a lot of restrictions on what you can and can't do with it because of DRM. Right now for example if you rent or buy a movie through youtube, you can't even watch it through the PS3 youtube app. Instead you would have to hook up your Android device through HDMI to watch your purchased show.

So even though there is a solution, you have to choose Android's method of choice.
The truth is that you have to conform to your ecosystem whether you like it or not and this idea of openness is really more of a myth.

 

[paintdrinkingpete]

Re: As a Mac user, how locked am I to the Apple ecosystem? The answer turns out to be "very."

I read through most of this....I tend to agree in part with most of the points brought up here.

The fact is, it would probably be just as hard for a person immersed in Google/Android's ecosystem (i.e. myself) to switch to an iPhone/iPad. Yeah, I know a lot of folks already use both, but if you were strictly one or the other for quite a while, it probably would be a challenge to get all your services setup for use.

Google tends to focus on a completely cloud based experience, though there are always alternatives if you choose to use other services, such as using Dropbox for photo backup instead of Google+, or even setting up a wired sync with your computer.

The thing is, if you are like me and use all of Google's services, everything works very well together, I can take a pic, and then easily pull it out of Google+ later to send in an email, even if I'm at my computer; I can upload files to Google drive from my PC. and then easily attach them to emails when I'm on the road and limited to my phone from Gmail....without even needed to download the file to my phone first.

 

[douglerner]

Re: As a Mac user, how locked am I to the Apple ecosystem? The answer turns out to be "very."

The thing is, if you are like me and use all of Google's services, everything works very well together, I can take a pic, and then easily pull it out of Google+ later to send in an email, even if I'm at my computer; I can upload files to Google drive from my PC. and then easily attach them to emails when I'm on the road and limited to my phone from Gmail....without even needed to download the file to my phone first.

What do you do about organizing photos into albums, just to show them to friends or look at them yourself for your own enjoyment?

doug

 

[douglerner]

Re: As a Mac user, how locked am I to the Apple ecosystem? The answer turns out to be "very."

Until Google did their unified storage Picasa only gave you 1gb of storage for free. Also in order to get unlimited storage in Google Plus you have to allow the resolution of your pictures to be shrunk.

The way Google has been improving Google + photo enhancement and other photo related features (This is just speculation), I wouldn't be surprised if Picasa doesn't get shuttered in the future as they have done with other projects like Messenger/Talk replaced with Hangouts.

Picasa always seemed interesting to me as a possible alternative to iPhoto because it worked offline as well, as a desktop app on my Mac. And you could organize things, search for faces, create interesting projects, etc. It would be a shame if it is abandoned.

Google+ seems to be oriented more towards just sharing stuff, which is my main hesitancy about adding all my photos there. I'm afraid things will accidentally get shared, and I only share a small percentage of photos I take.

Google+ just seems to be purposed differently.

doug

 

[Farish]

Re: As a Mac user, how locked am I to the Apple ecosystem? The answer turns out to be "very."

Picasa always seemed interesting to me as a possible alternative to iPhoto because it worked offline as well, as a desktop app on my Mac. And you could organize things, search for faces, create interesting projects, etc. It would be a shame if it is abandoned.

Google+ seems to be oriented more towards just sharing stuff, which is my main hesitancy about adding all my photos there. I'm afraid things will accidentally get shared, and I only share a small percentage of photos I take.

Google+ just seems to be purposed differently.

doug

In my opinion this their way to push you into their social network. And when it comes to Google plus one word comes to mind.


Gross

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using AC Forums mobile app

 

[douglerner]

Re: As a Mac user, how locked am I to the Apple ecosystem? The answer turns out to be "very."

In my opinion this their way to push you into their social network. And when it comes to Google plus one word comes to mind. Gross

To me, the one word that comes to mind when I think of Google+ is "Ghost Town." Sorry, that's two words.

doug

 

[Rule9]

Re: As a Mac user, how locked am I to the Apple ecosystem? The answer turns out to be "very."

To me, the one word that comes to mind when I think of Google+ is "Ghost Town." Sorry, that's two words.

doug

Not even close my friend, I took the time to follow a ton of circles and communities that cater to my interests in g+. Just one of those alone has nearly 200k members joined up. My feed is always busy. I get new posts popping up every few seconds while I'm scrolling through my feed. There's a lot of ongoing discussion to engage in and the tone is surprisingly civil