03-22-2014 08:17 PM
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  1. gnr_2's Avatar
    If it's brand new and it doesn't work out of the box, they are meant to replace it and pay for the shipping necessary. This is self-evident.

    I have no warranty if I deal with certain companies. In this case, as I stated, I made the mistake of assuming that I would be dealt with by Google in the same way as I was dealt with the last time by Google - that is, I assumed they would warranty replace my defective unit and pay for all shipping like they did the last time.



    Unfortunately, this example has nothing to do with the situation we are talking about. We're talking about a piece of hardware that is still under warranty.
    The toaster could theoretically still be under warranty. Perhaps it was a wedding gift and they got eight of them and sold six. You don't have the receipt so you can't return to Macy's, but the manufacturer isn't going to honor the warranty either because you bought secondhand. Your only recourse is returning to the house that had the garage sale and saying you sold me a piece of crap.

    I think I have an altogether reasonable expectation that if I pay $200 for a tablet, I am owed a tablet that works when I unbox it. Not a refurb to replace a brand new defective $200 tablet, and not a bill for shipping the defective tablet back to the people that made it.
    And therein lies the problem. Things don't work that way any more and haven't for a long time. Even with Apple. Once you are past the retailer and on to the manufacturer, they only have to give you a working refurbished unit. I've had this happen with an iPod that wouldn't hold a charge but missed Best Buy's 14-days and read any phone forum here and you'll see the same thing. Its like once you drive a car off the lot it is now used. (Example doesn't work as well since there are actual laws to protect car purchases but mainly because they were operating the same way.)



    Sent from my Nexus 7 using AC Forums mobile app
    mrsmumbles likes this.
    03-15-2014 01:18 AM
  2. xchange's Avatar
    Sigh. I almost made it a full year without reading a post where someone referred to a company by their stock market name.
    03-15-2014 01:19 AM
  3. gnr_2's Avatar
    Sigh. I almost made it a full year without reading a post where someone referred to a company by their stock market name.
    ?????

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using AC Forums mobile app
    03-15-2014 01:21 AM
  4. sparksd's Avatar
    ?????

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using AC Forums mobile app
    "AAPL" is Apple's NASDAQ reference name (see 1st page).
    03-15-2014 01:36 AM
  5. xchange's Avatar
    It's a stock.market player's form of 1337 5p34k, usually followed.by "shnoff shnoff "
    :-P
    03-15-2014 03:39 AM
  6. brosko's Avatar
    Thanks to both of you.

    Amazon doesn't cover anything at all after 30 days? Not even out of box, not user error, issues?
    I don't think so.
    Wildo6882 likes this.
    03-15-2014 08:45 AM
  7. brosko's Avatar
    I think this is contrary to how they look at it. Google is supplying the Nexus software and has design input, but the Nexus devices are made by OEM's who bid on the right to make it. This is fully an Asus tablet that Google has an outlet to sell (the Play Store). If you buy from Best Buy and Best Buy's return/repair policy doesn't cover something, you deal with Asus 100% of the time. The only circumstance that Google becomes involved is if the product was purchased directly from Google. In this way, I think it's more accurate to put Google in same place as Amazon (the retailer) in your example, with ultimate hardware responsibility falling back to Asus if the retailer or reseller (Google, Staples, Verizon, Game Stop, Best Buy, etc) isn't able to resolve through their normal processes.
    Google has their name on this tablet. They are much more than just a retailer. These are google nexus 7's. That's how they are marketed and known to all. I agree with original poster.
    03-15-2014 08:53 AM
  8. dpham00's Avatar
    Google has their name on this tablet. They are much more than just a retailer. These are google nexus 7's. That's how they are marketed and known to all. I agree with original poster.
    I agree. This is a Google branded device and so they are considered the manufacturer. Technically apple doesn't manufacture their devices either, Foxconn does.

    Or as an example I have a corsair and antec psus on my computers manufactured by seasonic, just slapped with a corsair or antec logo. Any warranty issues that may arise should go back to corsair or antec, not seasonic.

    But regardless, Google chose not to do it this way. As always the warranty terms are what dictates who does the servicing. Google clearly indicates that asus does the servicing unless bought through Google




    dpham00, Android Central Moderator
    Sent from my Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note 3 via Tapatalk Pro
    brosko likes this.
    03-15-2014 09:43 AM
  9. dpham00's Avatar
    Thanks to both of you.

    Amazon doesn't cover anything at all after 30 days? Not even out of box, not user error, issues?
    Their formal policy is 30 days. However should you be at 31 days, amazon may grant an exception. Doesn't hurt to ask. Also keep in mind that there can be other restrictions. Like phones bought on contract can be returned within 30 days but your contract is locked after 14 days on Verizon

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/custom...cUvbUpU3512012

    dpham00, Android Central Moderator
    Sent from my Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note 3 via Tapatalk Pro
    03-15-2014 09:55 AM
  10. IAMZWANEE's Avatar
    Really? When I look at the back I see Asus Nexus, not Google Nexus. Don't see Google until boot up.

    Posted via Android Central App
    mrsmumbles likes this.
    03-15-2014 10:52 AM
  11. aokusman's Avatar
    Asus service has always been terrible. They made me pay to ship my 6 months old gaming laptop to them, with a broken charging pin which was clearly a manufacturing defect. It cost me $70 to ship it to them. Never buy Asus. I never will again.


    Sent from my Galaxy S5 using tapatalk.
    03-15-2014 11:48 AM
  12. brosko's Avatar
    Really? When I look at the back I see Asus Nexus, not Google Nexus. Don't see Google until boot up.

    Posted via Android Central App
    look at the box that device came in. This is a GOOGLE device made by asus. problem is when you have a problem with it, it suddenly becomes an asus only device, but when they are spewing out all the top of line specs and all the great things about it on the play store... well then it's a google device of course. give me a break. its just like any other thing in this world, a company puts its logo on a product and brands it as theirs and takes all the credit and markets it as their own when a lot of these products are actually made by another company for them. its the same from the ketchup at mcdonalds to the car that you drive everyday.
    03-15-2014 12:31 PM
  13. Haalcyon's Avatar
    I think we all know people that have had both good and bad experiences with Nexus devices. I had several Wifi Nexus 7's that had touch screen issues or dead pixels, then I had an LTE Nexus 7 that was flawless, I mean Apple quality flawless. So I'm not sure why there was such a difference but that's the reality. I would only take a chance if buying from a retailer with a great return policy or Google itself.


    2 of IV
    Citizen Coyote likes this.
    03-15-2014 12:43 PM
  14. mset's Avatar
    This is fully an Asus tablet that Google has an outlet to sell.....In this way, I think it's more accurate to put Google in same place as Amazon (the retailer) in your example, with ultimate hardware responsibility falling back to Asus if the retailer or reseller (Google, Staples, Verizon, Game Stop, Best Buy, etc) isn't able to resolve through their normal processes.
    I strongly disagree with this idea, and find it difficult to reconcile with the facts.Judging by the responses, others here share my view on this even though they may not agree with all I have said. To characterize this as another maker's tablet that Google decided to retail, in the same way that Amazon retails a Jabra bluetooth unit, is just totally wrong on the face of it.The two situations are totally different.

    When you fire this tablet up, the Google logo appears on the startup screen. Does the Amazon logo appear on a Jabra bluetooth speaker? To characterize Google as a reseller of this device is very weird to me. It's Google conceived, designed and branded, says Google right on it, and Google farmed out the manufacturing proicess to a hardware maker who bid on the right to assemble it.

    Sorry, looks like we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one.
    03-15-2014 04:13 PM
  15. mset's Avatar
    You are entitled to a new device exchange during the return period. After that, you would have to go through warranty service.

    If you feel that the nexus 7 warranty does not meet your warranty expectations then perhaps you should choose a device that does
    You're right. I'm not sure if the device was within the return period. If the return period is 14 days or less, it was.

    In any case, yes, I made the mistake of assuming that the Nexus 7 warranty would be handled in the same (very good) way that the Nexus 4 was. That's my mistake and I will vote with my feet from now on, or until Google decides to improve their support (i.e., not making me deal with the absolutely god-awful Asus people).
    03-15-2014 04:16 PM
  16. mset's Avatar
    I've had this happen with an iPod that wouldn't hold a charge but missed Best Buy's 14-days and read any phone forum here and you'll see the same thing. Its like once you drive a car off the lot it is now used. (Example doesn't work as well since there are actual laws to protect car purchases but mainly because they were operating the same way.)
    And therein lies the problem. I had to return an iPhone that I bought off a forum. It was within warranty but I had no receipt. I called Apple and they asked me a few questions and then sent me a shipping label and sent me a brand new phone. I specifically asked if it would be a refurb and they said no. This was 2 years ago.

    The toaster could theoretically still be under warranty. Perhaps it was a wedding gift and they got eight of them and sold six. You don't have the receipt so you can't return to Macy's, but the manufacturer isn't going to honor the warranty either because you bought secondhand. Your only recourse is returning to the house that had the garage sale and saying you sold me a piece of crap.
    This is not correct. AAPL and other companies will honour warranty without receipt. It doesn't matter where I bought it, or from whom, second hand or not. That's the whole point of this thread.

    AAPL, Lenovo, Bryston, and many others... warranty travels with the unit, not the original purchaser.
    03-15-2014 04:22 PM
  17. Aquila's Avatar
    Google has their name on this tablet. They are much more than just a retailer. These are google nexus 7's. That's how they are marketed and known to all. I agree with original poster.
    I agree. This is a Google branded device and so they are considered the manufacturer. Technically apple doesn't manufacture their devices either, Foxconn does.

    Or as an example I have a corsair and antec psus on my computers manufactured by seasonic, just slapped with a corsair or antec logo. Any warranty issues that may arise should go back to corsair or antec, not seasonic.

    But regardless, Google chose not to do it this way. As always the warranty terms are what dictates who does the servicing. Google clearly indicates that asus does the servicing unless bought through Google
    I strongly disagree with this idea, and find it difficult to reconcile with the facts.Judging by the responses, others here share my view on this even though they may not agree with all I have said. To characterize this as another maker's tablet that Google decided to retail, in the same way that Amazon retails a Jabra bluetooth unit, is just totally wrong on the face of it.The two situations are totally different.

    When you fire this tablet up, the Google logo appears on the startup screen. Does the Amazon logo appear on a Jabra bluetooth speaker? To characterize Google as a reseller of this device is very weird to me. It's Google conceived, designed and branded, says Google right on it, and Google farmed out the manufacturing proicess to a hardware maker who bid on the right to assemble it.

    Sorry, looks like we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one.
    I have both Nexus 7's, both bought directly from Google and neither one of them say Google anywhere on it. In fact, they both say "Asus", and "Nexus" on the back and have no markings of any kind on the front. Google shows up on the boot screen because Google made the software, and they fully own the software side of things. On phones, LG takes ownership of the hardware of both the Nexus 4 and Nexus 5, neither of which say Google on their exterior as well. I think the closest a device has gotten to being Google branded was, "with Google".

    I get where you are coming from about how Google is perceived as the hardware manufacturer, but Google doesn't manufacture any hardware on their own, except maybe the Chromecast (I've never checked where these are made). As far as the design, brand, etc, Google didn't design any of the Nexus devices except for maybe the Nexus Q.

    As I indicated earlier, the OEM's bring their prototypes to Google as part of their bid, Google chooses the best one and is able to suggest concepts that they want to see. They provide the code, the OEM creates it, the OEM sells it, etc and Google's only involvement after that point is as a retailer and and an advertiser. So unfortunately, Google didn't conceive of it, design it or brand it, nor do they dictate the manufacturing process. This isn't the same idea as Apple or Amazon, but more akin to Microsoft and any of their hardware partners. If you have an Xbox or a Surface and there is an issue, you deal with Microsoft. If you buy an Asus laptop, there are approximately no circumstances where you will deal with Microsoft for returns/repairs, etc unless you specifically bought that device from a Microsoft outlet.

    Hope that helps to clear it up as to why Google is not involved in this process unless you buy directly through their website.
    mset likes this.
    03-15-2014 04:57 PM
  18. Haalcyon's Avatar
    This a Google tablet that Asus has been contracted to assist in the design and fabricate. I know it's not cut and dry but that's pretty much how I see it and it's hard to envision it otherwise.


    1 of IV
    03-15-2014 05:20 PM
  19. dpham00's Avatar
    I have both Nexus 7's, both bought directly from Google and neither one of them say Google anywhere on it. In fact, they both say "Asus", and "Nexus" on the back and have no markings of any kind on the front. Google shows up on the boot screen because Google made the software, and they fully own the software side of things. On phones, LG takes ownership of the hardware of both the Nexus 4 and Nexus 5, neither of which say Google on their exterior as well. I think the closest a device has gotten to being Google branded was, "with Google".

    I get where you are coming from about how Google is perceived as the hardware manufacturer, but Google doesn't manufacture any hardware on their own, except maybe the Chromecast (I've never checked where these are made). As far as the design, brand, etc, Google didn't design any of the Nexus devices except for maybe the Nexus Q.

    As I indicated earlier, the OEM's bring their prototypes to Google as part of their bid, Google chooses the best one and is able to suggest concepts that they want to see. They provide the code, the OEM creates it, the OEM sells it, etc and Google's only involvement after that point is as a retailer and and an advertiser. So unfortunately, Google didn't conceive of it, design it or brand it, nor do they dictate the manufacturing process. This isn't the same idea as Apple or Amazon, but more akin to Microsoft and any of their hardware partners. If you have an Xbox or a Surface and there is an issue, you deal with Microsoft. If you buy an Asus laptop, there are approximately no circumstances where you will deal with Microsoft for returns/repairs, etc unless you specifically bought that device from a Microsoft outlet.

    Hope that helps to clear it up as to why Google is not involved in this process unless you buy directly through their website.
    I get what you are saying, but many places (including AC) are identifying it as the Google Nexus 7. Even Google's website says that it is from Google. Yes, they do say that it is made by Asus way down in the page, but it isn't in bold or anything. In fact, Google was mentioned 7 times, and asus only mentioned once. To avoid the confusion, Google should require everyone to call it the Asus Nexus 7, if they don't want the warranty responsibility, imo.



    dpham00, Android Central Moderator
    Sent from my Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note 3 via Tapatalk Pro
    03-15-2014 05:21 PM
  20. mset's Avatar
    On phones, LG takes ownership of the hardware of both the Nexus 4 and Nexus 5...I get where you are coming from about how Google is perceived as the hardware manufacturer, but Google doesn't manufacture any hardware on their own, except maybe the Chromecast (I've never checked where these are made). As far as the design, brand, etc, Google didn't design any of the Nexus devices except for maybe the Nexus Q.
    I appreciate the information and I in turn get where you are coming from as a tech industry insider or someone with that level of knowledge. As dpham00 has pointed out above, Google's own website says this is a Google tablet, and it is identified as a Google Nexus 7. I agree with him - if they don't want to be involved in warranty hasles, they should let the OEM call it an Asus Nexus 7 or whatever.

    You see, I think of this more like a retail consumer. Google has created the perception that this is a Google tablet. They have created the perception that all the Nexus Android stuff is their effort to make Android the ascendent mobile OS. Your caveat about the Google Play store is quite telling, and it speaks to what I was saying earlier about the idea that it's harder to draw clear lines between designer, manufacturer, retailer and support entities.

    I shouldn't have assumed that since my last Google Nexus device was supported in an AAPL-like manner, that the next one would be. I learned my lesson.

    Again, we will have to agree to disagree but I appreciate the comments.
    Aquila likes this.
    03-15-2014 05:51 PM
  21. brosko's Avatar
    doesn't matter thingIsTrue;3512556]I have both Nexus 7's, both bought directly from Google and neither one of them say Google anywhere on it. In fact, they both say "Asus", and "Nexus" on the back and have no markings of any kind on the front. Google shows up on the boot screen because Google made the software, and they fully own the software side of things. On phones, LG takes ownership of the hardware of both the Nexus 4 and Nexus 5, neither of which say Google on their exterior as well. I think the closest a device has gotten to being Google branded was, "with Google".

    I get where you are coming from about how Google is perceived as the hardware manufacturer, but Google doesn't manufacture any hardware on their own, except maybe the Chromecast (I've never checked where these are made). As far as the design, brand, etc, Google didn't design any of the Nexus devices except for maybe the Nexus Q.

    As I indicated earlier, the OEM's bring their prototypes to Google as part of their bid, Google chooses the best one and is able to suggest concepts that they want to see. They provide the code, the OEM creates it, the OEM sells it, etc and Google's only involvement after that point is as a retailer and and an advertiser. So unfortunately, Google didn't conceive of it, design it or brand it, nor do they dictate the manufacturing process. This isn't the same idea as Apple or Amazon, but more akin to Microsoft and any of their hardware partners. If you have an Xbox or a Surface and there is an issue, you deal with Microsoft. If you buy an Asus laptop, there are approximately no circumstances where you will deal with Microsoft for returns/repairs, etc unless you specifically bought that device from a Microsoft outlet.

    Hope that helps to clear it up as to why Google is not involved in this process unless you buy directly through their website.
    It doesnt matter if it says google on it or not. It is a google tablet just like Mcdonalds ketchup is Mcdonalds ketchup. they should own up to it and fully support the thing regardless of where it was bought or stop creating the perception that the nexus is pure google.
    03-15-2014 05:57 PM
  22. Relgoshan's Avatar
    There are many reasons, including accountability for a bad design, that have resulted in Google not taking the direct responsibility for these devices. Whether a Chromebook or an Android phone or tablet, they are still third party OEM devices. Google merely offers early-bird software updates and advertising tied to the brand-win. Consider this like the Windows Premium experience devices. They are supported by Microsoft to an extent if purchased through the Microsoft Store, but they are not Microsoft products. See also the Centrino and Ultrabook brand-win programs which are less exclusive than Nexus.

    Google is pushing an aesthetic with its design bid competitions and setting a baseline UI/UX with vanilla Android. WithOUT the direct end-to-end design responsibilities undertaken by Apple. Not a bad trick to make some money and keep things shaken up.

    Besides for all the paper specs of the N7 it's got some aggressive tricks that keep the hardware cost down. The design uses an S4 Pro instead of a 600, the single core performance gap is very forthcoming. And the older Krait cores have substantial issues with multicore performance scaling anyway. Asus used some clever ideas to keep the repair complexity down, AND they make you eat the shipping. This at least helps their margins while keeping the 1080p panel and shipping under $200 starting price. Lack of expansion slot also encourages the bump to larger on-board storage same as Apple does.

    Nothing wrong with any of this, technically. But people expect a premum device AND premium repair support for under $200 starting price which is very difficult to deliver. Even some of the sub-$500 laptops now have less than a 1yr warranty or cover only parts but not labor or shipping. For over $1500 total you can still buy a killer laptop with killer on-site 100% repair coverage, but the only tablets I have seen with similar coverage are direct from Apple and Microsoft and very expensive.
    03-15-2014 06:09 PM
  23. Aquila's Avatar
    Besides for all the paper specs of the N7 it's got some aggressive tricks that keep the hardware cost down. The design uses an S4 Pro instead of a 600, the single core performance gap is very forthcoming. And the older Krait cores have substantial issues with multicore performance scaling anyway.
    The "S4 Pro" in the 2013 Nexus 7 is an underclocked S600. It's the same GPU and the same 4 Krait-300 cores as the off-the shelf model, just clocked under the factory defaults for what Qualcomm sells as a Snapdragon S600. I'm not sure if that's what you're trying to say or not.
    03-15-2014 06:30 PM
  24. Relgoshan's Avatar
    Huh. Did some poking and supposedly that is correct?

    So it should also have the 600's improved SMP scaling.

    Then why am I seeing the expected performance gap associated to an 8064 vs my 8930AB? It makes no sense to bench low like that.
    03-15-2014 07:00 PM
  25. Relgoshan's Avatar
    The "S4 Pro" in the 2013 Nexus 7 is an underclocked S600. It's the same GPU and the same 4 Krait-300 cores as the off-the shelf model, just clocked under the factory defaults for what Qualcomm sells as a Snapdragon S600. I'm not sure if that's what you're trying to say or not.
    Please bear with me as this is very confusing. I am trying to rectify the numbers. Closer examination in 3DMark scores begins to bear out what you say, a true 1.7GHz S4 Pro Krait quad only gets 2fps more in physics than my 8930AB, whereas the 1.5GHz quad N7 2013 shows +12fps physics and full speed 600s show up to +16fps or more.

    The score gap in Linpack and Vellamo and the score parity in Antutu are still very strange. Sadly GFXbench servers are down but their CPU numbers were really weird too. It all reinforced my assumption that anything branded an S4 used the primitive older Kraits. Scores for my tablet are nearly nonexistent, I should buy Geekbench and a few others and get to the bottom of this...there's no way that a mildly under clocked 600 should score so poorly in some of these tests.
    03-15-2014 07:27 PM
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