03-22-2014 08:17 PM
113 ... 2345
tools
  1. Aquila's Avatar
    Please bear with me as this is very confusing. I am trying to rectify the numbers. Closer examination in 3DMark scores begins to bear out what you say, a true 1.7GHz S4 Pro Krait quad only gets 2fps more in physics than my 8930AB, whereas the 1.5GHz quad N7 2013 shows +12fps physics and full speed 600s show up to +16fps or more.

    The score gap in Linpack and Vellamo and the score parity in Antutu are still very strange. Sadly GFXbench servers are down but their CPU numbers were really weird too. It all reinforced my assumption that anything branded an S4 used the primitive older Kraits. Scores for my tablet are nearly nonexistent, I should buy Geekbench and a few others and get to the bottom of this...there's no way that a mildly under clocked 600 should score so poorly in some of these tests.
    AnandTech | The Nexus 7 (2013) Review

    This was fairly helpful. It doesn't have every benchmark in the world, but it does a good job of explaining the results on the ones it includes.
    03-15-2014 07:32 PM
  2. Relgoshan's Avatar
    Geekbench puts single core performance much closer between the two, and for once the memory even shows up as *faster*. In most of the other benchmarks I was seeing these big single core deficits and lower memory scores for the 2013 N7. Even Qualcomm's own Vellamo placed the 2nd gen N7 around 1500 while my tablet hit 2000.

    This is just so odd. Even all but one of the current model that I've seen in person had choppy scrolling in Chrome, but I have read here that this is something you can get rid of with persistence. I really don't know what to think anymore.
    03-16-2014 12:32 AM
  3. Relgoshan's Avatar
    AnandTech | The Nexus 7 (2013) Review

    This was fairly helpful. It doesn't have every benchmark in the world, but it does a good job of explaining the results on the ones it includes.
    Hmmmm. So for Kraken, Sunspider and Octane my scores are all better but only around 10% on average. Geekbench my single core score is only more than 5% higher but the core scaling is decent....the SM-T217S scores about 90% Higher than the SM-T210 tho which is amazing. Basemark puts me just over 5000 combined score under their new counting system....there is no suitable comparison number for the N7 2013. The SM-T210 has a laughable 1830 tho.

    The impression I get is for most apps the two devices will perform very similar, the graphics are matched to their respective screen rez also. The biggest thing N7 2013 has over my device is raw rez for still images and dense PDFs, and possibly that extra oomph for software video decoding. Otherwise I feel pretty good about what I got.
    03-16-2014 01:52 AM
  4. Aquila's Avatar
    Hmmmm. So for Kraken, Sunspider and Octane my scores are all better but only around 10% on average. Geekbench my single core score is only more than 5% higher but the core scaling is decent....the SM-T217S scores about 90% Higher than the SM-T210 tho which is amazing. Basemark puts me just over 5000 combined score under their new counting system....there is no suitable comparison number for the N7 2013. The SM-T210 has a laughable 1830 tho.

    The impression I get is for most apps the two devices will perform very similar, the graphics are matched to their respective screen rez also. The biggest thing N7 2013 has over my device is raw rez for still images and dense PDFs, and possibly that extra oomph for software video decoding. Otherwise I feel pretty good about what I got.
    The review also took place last fall prior to the Kit Kat updates (which started in October 2013), so there will be some differences there but it's not going to be drastic in either direction.
    03-16-2014 01:55 AM
  5. mset's Avatar
    Here's a pleasant update for anyone who's interested.

    I received my RMA back from Asus today. As a matter of curiousity, I called them and asked them to tell me exactly what had been done. They put me on hold for a while then came back with 'they flashed the firmware'. That seemed pretty strange to me, given the litany of problems I had (and had documented on video).

    So I unboxed the RMA and fired the tablet up. I figured the best plan would be to do the first thing I did last time, which was try to run a Netflix video. This is what revealed the first of the issues I had - the intermittent horizontal 'dotted white lines' across the screen.

    I downloaded Netflix and started a video. It ran for about 10 minutes... and guess what? The exact same dotted white lines!

    I couldn't believe it. So I went to call Asus back and opened the email I got when the RMA was been shipped back. I noticed that it was not Asus who had done the work but a firm called _____________________________________, in a suburb of Toronto.

    So here's my take. Asus farms out its warranty repair service. That firm gets paid per turnaround, right? What's their first move? Of course, it's to do the 'fix' that costs them the least, hoping that a) the problem is actually fixed, or b) that the customer decides to drop it and just goes away. Sure, they may get paid more if they have to do a more involved job, but most likely their ideal situation is very quick turnarounds so that they can have more throughput. They're almost surely doing work like this for other firms as well.

    Anyway, from start to finish, it's unreal how badly Asus has performed in this. I of course called them back and got yet another RMA. It has been brought to my attention that even if you buy from Google, you will have to pay half the shipping for warranty work on a BNIB item that is defective, unless you're good at talking. However, I still think it would be better to deal with Google on this than it is dealing with Asus directly.

    My experience FWIW. Your mileage may vary. Needless to say, my last Asus product.
    03-20-2014 09:32 PM
  6. Haalcyon's Avatar
    Here's a pleasant update for anyone who's interested.

    I received my RMA back from Asus today. As a matter of curiousity, I called them and asked them to tell me exactly what had been done. They put me on hold for a while then came back with 'they flashed the firmware'. That seemed pretty strange to me, given the litany of problems I had (and had documented on video).

    So I unboxed the RMA and fired the tablet up. I figured the best plan would be to do the first thing I did last time, which was try to run a Netflix video. This is what revealed the first of the issues I had - the intermittent horizontal 'dotted white lines' across the screen.

    I downloaded Netflix and started a video. It ran for about 10 minutes... and guess what? The exact same dotted white lines!

    I couldn't believe it. So I went to call Asus back and opened the email I got when the RMA was been shipped back. I noticed that it was not Asus who had done the work but a firm called Memofix Hitech Services a suburb of Toronto.

    So here's my take. Asus farms out its warranty repair service. That firm gets paid per turnaround, right. What's their first move? Of course, it's to do the 'fix' that costs them the least, hoping that a) the problem is actually fixed, or b) that the customer decides to drop it and just goes away. Sure, they may get paid more if they have to do a more involved job, but most likely their ideal situation is very quick turnarounds so that they can have more throughput. They're almost surely doing work like this for other firms as well.

    Anyway, from start to finish, it's unreal how badly Asus has performed in this. I of course called them back and got yet another RMA. It has been brought to my attention that even if you buy from Google, you will have to pay shipping unless you're good at talking. However, I still think it would be better to deal with Google on this than it is dealing with Asus directly.

    My experience FWIW. Your mileage may vary. Needless to say, my last Asus product.
    All you're doing is making it even less likely, if that's possible, that Asus will get my $$$$, especially with LG and even Samsung around. 😟


    via the tablet
    03-20-2014 09:37 PM
  7. muddy211's Avatar
    @ MSet, I have to say after reading what your going through these past few days Im about to spend some money for my daughter to have a Phone/Tablet combo...I dont care for anything iOS, I have a Nexus 5 and love it... but looks like she will definetly be getting iOS devices...at least they back their product!
    03-20-2014 10:46 PM
  8. xchange's Avatar
    Pretty sure I've seen bad experiences on pretty much every device manufacturer out there, and they all end up turning out like this thread. You get a few people agreeing and a few people not having said issue.
    03-20-2014 11:10 PM
  9. mset's Avatar
    @ MSet, I have to say after reading what your going through these past few days Im about to spend some money for my daughter to have a Phone/Tablet combo...I dont care for anything iOS, I have a Nexus 5 and love it... but looks like she will definetly be getting iOS devices...at least they back their product!
    I really hate to say it, and I've been clear that I don't love the AAPL ecosystem thing, but there's no arguing that for 'it just works and support is great', AAPL are the leaders. I have a feeling that Google won't be going with Asus for its next tablet. Maybe whoever they go with will be better. Asus has been mind-numbingly bad. I will say that aside from one weird recurrent glitch, I'm happy with my Nexus 4.

    Since I am not a gamer and don't need the social networking apps, it looks like I'm actually going to have to give a Surface Pro a try.
    03-20-2014 11:26 PM
  10. mset's Avatar
    Pretty sure I've seen bad experiences on pretty much every device manufacturer out there, and they all end up turning out like this thread. You get a few people agreeing and a few people not having said issue.
    There's a lot of truth in this. Also, I have a very low tolerance for rude customer service. That said, it's usually one or two bad individuals and you can eventually find someone who has some common sense. In this case, not so much.

    The way this whole thing is slapped together (Google designed, Google branded, multiple retailers, multiple support streams, multiple warranty claim systems, contracted-out repair work) just seems not to be working.
    03-20-2014 11:30 PM
  11. Relgoshan's Avatar
    Here's a pleasant update for anyone who's interested.
    *snip*
    My experience FWIW. Your mileage may vary. Needless to say, my last Asus product.
    I had this sentiment for a while concerning their gaming laptops as sold in general retail. Asus makes some good product and I've had excellent results with their towers that I set up for people, but their mobile sector seems to be garbage. *ZENBOOK* argh....and their Eee PCs were trash after about 2010. The warranty service horror story tho, that's a pretty common thing actually. And at the price point I would rather buy another than deal with bad warranty support, excepting faceplates I can replace myself. If you spend more than $800 on a laptop you should get the on site repair warranty where some schmuck drives out with all the parts and doesn't get to leave until you are satisfied.

    End to end, most likely there is a manufacturing defect in your video hardware. But you should pin it down by testing some video clips in say MX Player, BS Player or similar. Confirm if its hardware decoding related or just fast motion.
    03-20-2014 11:40 PM
  12. Relgoshan's Avatar
    There's a lot of truth in this. Also, I have a very low tolerance for rude customer service. That said, it's usually one or two bad individuals and you can eventually find someone who has some common sense. In this case, not so much.

    The way this whole thing is slapped together (Google designed, Google branded, multiple retailers, multiple support streams, multiple warranty claim systems, contracted-out repair work) just seems not to be working.
    NOT Google designed. Asus designed it as their bid to make a device reflecting Google aesthetic.

    Google aethetic boils down to 'ominous black slabs from old scifi movies'.
    03-20-2014 11:42 PM
  13. Aquila's Avatar
    NOT Google designed. Asus designed it as their bid to make a device reflecting Google aesthetic.
    We tried explaining that a couple of times, but it didn't catch on.
    03-20-2014 11:44 PM
  14. Relgoshan's Avatar
    @ MSet, I have to say after reading what your going through these past few days Im about to spend some money for my daughter to have a Phone/Tablet combo...I dont care for anything iOS, I have a Nexus 5 and love it... but looks like she will definetly be getting iOS devices...at least they back their product!
    iOS and Nexus are not the only options, and making an Apples to Androids comparison based on that reasoning is a disservice. If for example you got her an S4 Mini and a Tab 3 7.0 LTE, they have the exact same chips inside plus 50GB of Dropbox so boths apps and file sharing would be trivial. Or you could get her any decent 3-4" device that fits her hands and one of the Tegra Note7 models that can bring out her creative expression. iBlanks are mostly consumption devices and you should really give a little kid something that allows them to grow.

    For a single device solution there's always a Mega and some cute stereo bluetooth earbuds, honestly it's too big for me as a phone but I've seen lots of women and girls with one in their bag. Check out some other device forums including a few HTC, the LG G series models and the Moto X. Don't just crush her with iCan't.

    ....I feel maybe I am being too harsh on Apple but after setting up so many of them it's firmly in my mind that they exist only for Netflix (Hulu's busted) and for viewing photos (not taking them). I've gotten one for an aunt but never a niece.
    03-20-2014 11:53 PM
  15. muddy211's Avatar
    My only disservice is to spend my money on a product where I dont get the MIDDLE FINGER after purchase...I could care less if its iOS, Android or Windows....
    iOS and Nexus are not the only options, and making an Apples to Androids comparison based on that reasoning is a disservice. If for example you got her an S4 Mini and a Tab 3 7.0 LTE, they have the exact same chips inside plus 50GB of Dropbox so boths apps and file sharing would be trivial. Or you could get her any decent 3-4" device that fits her hands and one of the Tegra Note7 models that can bring out her creative expression. iBlanks are mostly consumption devices and you should really give a little kid something that allows them to grow.

    For a single device solution there's always a Mega and some cute stereo bluetooth earbuds, honestly it's too big for me as a phone but I've seen lots of women and girls with one in their bag. Check out some other device forums including a few HTC, the LG G series models and the Moto X. Don't just crush her with iCan't.

    ....I feel maybe I am being too harsh on Apple but after setting up so many of them it's firmly in my mind that they exist only for Netflix (Hulu's busted) and for viewing photos (not taking them). I've gotten one for an aunt but never a niece.
    03-21-2014 12:21 AM
  16. Relgoshan's Avatar
    My only disservice is to spend my money on a product where I dont get the MIDDLE FINGER after purchase...I could care less if its iOS, Android or Windows....
    ...which is why I suggested to see if *any other* Android based devices are better warranted than the paper tiger.
    03-21-2014 12:24 AM
  17. muddy211's Avatar
    ...which is why I suggested to see if *any other* Android based devices are better warranted than the paper tiger.
    Ok, paper tiger in check...
    03-21-2014 12:28 AM
  18. mset's Avatar
    We tried explaining that a couple of times, but it didn't catch on.
    Yes, and we in turn tried to explain how from a consumer point of view, this doesn't matter. First off, there are varying stories even within this thread about how much input Google had when the whole process is taken into consideration from concept to marketing the final product. But once again, this is a Google product, period. It has the word 'Google' in capital letters across the back and when you fire it up it says 'Google'.

    In any case, inasmuch as 'Asus designed it as their bid to make a device reflecting the Google aesthetic' (and Lord knows what that actually means) you're sort of making my point for me. This seems to be a schizophrenic product.

    Too bad. I would pay a premium to not be involved in the AAPL ecosystem. Maybe I just need to look at a better Android tablet. If such a thing exists. But that's why I went with Google! Who best to make an Android tablet than the makers of Android, right?

    Oh, errr.....
    03-21-2014 01:19 AM
  19. xchange's Avatar
    Just to clarify, do you think your expectations are being set higher due to the Nexus Google connection? I mean if you had bought a non nexus Asus only tablet would you have been equally upset? People have been given the runaround by Samsung, HTC, LG, and many other customer supports too.
    03-21-2014 01:22 AM
  20. mset's Avatar
    My only disservice is to spend my money on a product where I dont get the MIDDLE FINGER after purchase...I could care less if its iOS, Android or Windows....
    Amen....
    03-21-2014 01:25 AM
  21. mset's Avatar
    End to end, most likely there is a manufacturing defect in your video hardware. But you should pin it down by testing some video clips in say MX Player, BS Player or similar. Confirm if its hardware decoding related or just fast motion.
    I wish I had the time and/or the inclination. But I'm not a tech expert like you guys. I just want my gear to work. And just as a final thought, I usually spend a premium to get gear that works. In this case, I was buying the brand - again, the brand that *is* Android, right?

    Let's see what comes back after RMA # 2.
    03-21-2014 01:27 AM
  22. mset's Avatar
    Just to clarify, do you think your expectations are being set higher due to the Nexus Google connection? I mean if you had bought a non nexus Asus only tablet would you have been equally upset? People have been given the runaround by Samsung, HTC, LG, and many other customer supports too.
    Good question. The answer is no. My whole contention from the beginning has been that I expected more *because of* the Google Nexus connection or in my mind the Google Android connection. Specifically, I expected Google to stand behind their product. They did not.

    And yes, you're absolutely right, there are other supports that give customers the runaround. But there are supports that do not. And we all know about one that generally does not, no matter how much you dislike their walled garden. I had a few experiences with them and they were great.

    I have that experience with other high end gear that I buy as well.

    I don't know... I guess I naively believed that Google would throw some of their massive cash stockpile around to show people how its done. To show them that they could compete with Apple on the CS front and kick their butts on the pricing front.

    In the end, I have to admit that the amount I paid for this thing is relevant. I guess I just can't expect much more.
    03-21-2014 01:29 AM
  23. Aquila's Avatar
    But once again, this is a Google product, period. It has the word 'Google' in capital letters across the back and when you fire it up it says 'Google'.
    Okay, the first part of this is not true and the second is true of all stock, Nexus and Google Play edition devices. The last Nexus device that I had "Google" on the device was a Samsung Galaxy Nexus, and it said, "With Google", but also clearly said "Samsung". Google does not design that hardware. From a consumer point of view, that absolutely should matter because all of the quality determinations should reside with the designers, engineers, manufacturers, assemblers and retailers. On the Nexus 7, Google is only in that last category and even then, only if you buy it from their store. Aside from that, from cradle to grave it's an Asus product and that distinction is very important, especially when people try to judge all of Android based on a hardware issue with one device. Android is software, not hardware.

    I totally do understand your frustration, I just see it as being totally misapplied. If that's because of a misunderstanding of how it works, fine, but when that position is clarified, why double down on the original misplacement of blame? Google explained it to you and we elaborated and everyone seemed on the same page, then out of nowhere, all of the sudden this is a Google and an Android-wide problem, not a problem with one product made by one manufacturer that has no obligation to do warranty work given that it's a third party transaction. Does that suck? Yes. But blame who is actually at fault: the retailer that sold it to you with no product support or option for direct exchange (or at least no option that was attempted).

    If the statement was, "I don't like the Asus support, I had a bad experience with this product and will stay away from Asus products", okay that'd make sense. But you and other are basically saying something more equivalent to, "I don't like this Samsung tablet I bought at Walmart, and since Target wouldn't pay for me to return it to Walmart or fix it themselves, I'm never shopping from Target again". IMO, that's misguided and I can't understand why none of the blame falls on the figurative Walmart, or end retailer. Almost none of the ire is falling on Walmart or Samsung, even though the first point of contact should have been the person or business that sold it to you. Once that option was exhausted, you'd work with Samsung (or Asus), but why would a third party ever be brought into it, especially after they explicitly explain that they don't support products they didn't sell?

    All of that said, if you prefer other brands, that's totally fine and I definitely wish you well for it and I'm sorry your experience sucked with Asus' RMA (the not fixing it correctly and testing it is totally unacceptable).
    03-21-2014 01:47 AM
  24. mset's Avatar
    "I don't like this Samsung tablet I bought at Walmart, and since Target wouldn't pay for me to return it to Walmart or fix it themselves, I'm never shopping from Target again".
    You seem like a fairly bright guy, but this analogy makes no sense in the context of the current discussion. More appropriate would be

    "Walmart decided to sell a tablet with their name on it and I bought one, and now something's wrong with it and they're telling me to go to Target to get it fixed because Target supplied some of the parts for their tablet".

    That's not even accurate but it's more accurate than the above.

    The first point of contact for a faulty product is not the business who sold it to me. It's the company whose name is on the gear. Surprising that this seem so tough to understand.

    I'm not really interested in debating the fact that this is a Google product. It says Google on it and when you fire it up, it says Google on the splash screen. That's it. Period. If you're a Google/Android fan and you try to spin it some other way, that's cool, but in the end it doesn't matter. We as consumers don't care. I understand sub contracting just as well and maybe better than you do, unless you happen to be in a business where you sub contract a lot like I do. I am responsible for my vendors. If one of my vendors [Inappropriate language removed by moderator] on a gig, the client is coming to me for an explanation. That's it.

    My last response to this part of the discussion. I've made the point about 5 times and many have agreed with me.
    03-21-2014 02:07 AM
  25. Aquila's Avatar
    "Walmart decided to sell a tablet with their name on it and I bought one, and now something's wrong with it and they're telling me to go to Target to get it fixed because Target supplied some of the parts for their tablet".

    That's not even accurate but it's more accurate than the above.
    Okay, so losing the analogy: RFD sold a tablet that says Asus on it to the consumer, something is wrong, didn't call RFD, called Google because mistakenly thought they were the OEM, that was corrected, called Asus. Asus' response sucked, mad at Google. I think that matches up exactly with what I said, Google is a non-involved third party retailer. I'm not suggesting you call Foxxcon or Qualcomm, but the OEM and/or the actual responsible party for returns/exchanges (rather than warranty work), the retailer, if they have such a policy. Sounds like that was never checked out.

    That's it. Period.
    So, you're not open to any information that disagrees with your incorrect assumption, despite Google themselves having told you the same thing? Insulting me and having other people agree with those assumptions doesn't change anything. There is no spin here, but it is obvious you do not have a very clear understanding of the Nexus program - and that is fine, most people don't - but once that information is made available, it's strange to discount it just because it disagrees with preconceptions.

    I am responsible for my vendors. If one of my vendors ***** up on a gig, the client is coming to me for an explanation. That's it.
    I do understand how that relationship works, what I'm saying is that it's not applicable. For example, if you have a shop where you sell Product A, which is made by another company, and someone buys a Product A from the shop next door to yours, would you pay for repairs to their product, despite it never being involved with your shop? That's what I'm trying to get across. You're not talking about sub-contracting in your real life situation, but you keep trying to pretend that the Nexus fits a sub-contracted model. To clarify: It does not. Despite any perception otherwise, that just isn't the relationship. If you consider that statement, what Google told you will make sense in that context. Google's entire role in the manufacture and sale of the Nexus is the commissioner and one of many retailers. All product liability from a warranty standpoint resides with Asus in 100% of cases that are not handled by standard replacement/exchange or return with the retailer.

    Side note: I am a moderator here and we cannot ignore posting behavior that violates the forum rules, such as inappropriate language, circumventing language filters and personal attacks. Please refrain from posting in that manner and we can leave it there. - Thanks.
    03-21-2014 02:25 AM
113 ... 2345

Similar Threads

  1. Nexus 5: died and it won't turn on
    By JConn_Lefty in forum Google Nexus 5
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: 07-30-2016, 03:44 PM
  2. Is a light bleed normal?
    By Nuuq in forum Google Nexus 5
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 03-21-2014, 12:54 PM
  3. non-nexus 7 compatible app actually works?
    By preppystud in forum Google Nexus 7 Tablet (2013)
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 03-13-2014, 10:57 AM
  4. Any updates on Sprint Spark support for Nexus 5?
    By Gaurav in forum Google Nexus 5
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 03-11-2014, 10:25 PM
  5. Using Wi-Fi Direct on Nexus 7
    By Tabby01 in forum Google Nexus 7 Tablet (2012)
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-11-2014, 09:43 PM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD