10-23-2018 12:11 AM
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  1. Itsa_Me_Mario's Avatar
    Objective has a definition that does not get to get changed to anything resembling "in my opinion" or "I think" or "can be". Stating that something is objectively true is also stating that it is factual, so stating something is objectively true when describing subjective opinions is also known as stating something that is not true.
    DMP89145 and SteelGator like this.
    10-21-2018 10:50 AM
  2. Coop61's Avatar
    From my understanding, a launcher won't change the system navigation setup? It'll remain with the new pill setup?

    I'm seriously doubting purchasing the Pixel 3 now. I thought the gesture system was terrible back when I was on the Android Pie beta. It is objectively slower and more cumbersome to use than the previous three icon setup, but I thought they'd still have the option to go back to previous setup in the settings somewhere, but that's not the case.
    Not entirely true. Nova on my Phone the swipe up still brings up previously opened apps. The second swipe up doesn't do anything now. To get to the app drawer I have to tape on the 6 little dots.
    10-21-2018 11:07 AM
  3. Robisan's Avatar
    pm uninstall -k --user 0 com.google.android.apps.nexuslauncher
    Lol. After three generations the Pixel launcher is still labeled as nexus in code.
    10-21-2018 11:54 AM
  4. Caezar07's Avatar
    There are only two positives to the new gesture based nav:
    1) You can access the app drawer from within an app.
    2) Swiping right to get to the previous app is quicker than the old double tap method.

    In my opinion, the gestures are overall clunky and not intuitive, and really, there wasn't much point in switching to them if it doesn't save space and go full screen like on the iPhone X. The Pixel 3 nav bar takes up just as much space as the old nav bar. I wouldn't even really call it gesture nav...they just added in a few swipe features.

    For me, the two worst things about the new nav bar are:
    1) The slow swipe up to get into the app drawer just isn't intuitive and wonky. I don't think I will ever get the muscle memory to execute the slow swipe up consistently even on my smaller Pixel 3. I see this being a huge pain on the larger Pixel 3 XL.
    2) The recent apps list shows less apps, and it swipes kind of "fast" and so I'm constantly flicking past 3-4 apps when I only mean to swipe past 1-2 apps in the list.

    I think the solution to all this would be to:
    1) Make the home button long press shortcut to the app drawer. There are already 27 other ways to access Google assistant on the Pixel phone.
    2) Use overlapping cards for the apps in the recent apps list, like on the iPhone X, and make the swiping slower and smoother.
    10-21-2018 12:32 PM
  5. Mike Dee's Avatar
    While I agree there should be options for those they don't like gestures I got used to the gestures right on away on my 2XL and did not go back even though it was optional. I don't find either method faster or slower but I find it difficult to go back when I'm running a phone with Oreo. Maybe we are all wired differently.
    SteelGator likes this.
    10-21-2018 12:53 PM
  6. mustang7757's Avatar
    Google could've used in the blank space to the right of the pill a emoji middle finger as u try to use the navigation gestures then it wouldn't be blank😁
    DMP89145 likes this.
    10-21-2018 01:15 PM
  7. DMP89145's Avatar
    I can understand why some people don't like Android P. Can even understand wanting the option to use either system. But some "problems" are just users not wanting change and being used to what they know. The new system takes a different navigation understanding, but really is more efficient and simple.

    Google needs to move Android forward. They always have and always will. We had an app drawer button until Oreo, for crying out loud. I remember people complaining they didn't like that they had to swipe up to access the app drawer and wanted that button back too.
    10-21-2018 02:30 PM
  8. SteelGator's Avatar
    Your examples are not even close to objective. For instance:


    The old multi task button was static on screen, bottom right. Thus to take action, your thumb has to tap, bottom right. With the gestures system, the same is accomplished with a single flick up from anywhere in the lower region of the phone. left, center, right, search bar, app row... That's not objectively slower or more cumbersome. If anything, quite the opposite.
    I agree with this and I'm not going to argue the point. He clearly does not like the new system. I find it easier and faster to get my way around in my use. That is what makes it subjective and not objective. Everybody's milage will vary with use.

    I know I prefer it, because when I had the choice on my OG Pixel, used the gestures, not the old system. I hope they continue to develop the system and move to a more gesture based environment and less on buttons.
    DMP89145 likes this.
    10-21-2018 02:58 PM
  9. mustang7757's Avatar
    I can understand why some people don't like Android P. Can even understand wanting the option to use either system. But some "problems" are just users not wanting change and being used to what they know. The new system takes a different navigation understanding, but really is more efficient and simple.

    Google needs to move Android forward. They always have and always will. We had an app drawer button until Oreo, for crying out loud. I remember people complaining they didn't like that they had to swipe up to access the app drawer and wanted that button back too.
    I don't think it's so much for changing to gestures I prefer it over buttons but how they did it . It makes no sense to me to do double swipe waste of time where I want to go. They trying something that's most of a manufacturers didn't do with their gestures. why? Are all these other phone manufacturers wrong ? I rarely go into the recent apps menu , but I do go to my app drawer to see my apps I haven't put on my home screen. Why couldn't 2 swipes bring the recent app and one quick to app drawer. Just it could've been done different. I love changes when it's done right .
    DMP89145 likes this.
    10-21-2018 03:02 PM
  10. SteelGator's Avatar
    I don't think it's so much for changing to gestures I prefer it over buttons but how they did it . It makes no sense to me to do double swipe waste of time where I want to go. They trying something that's most of a manufacturers didn't do with their gestures. why? Are all these other phone manufacturers wrong ? I rarely go into the recent apps menu , but I do go to my app drawer to see my apps I haven't put on my home screen. Why couldn't 2 swipes bring the recent app and one quick to app drawer. Just it could've been done different. I love changes when it's done right .
    I wonder what data they have on how much folks go into their app drawer versus the switcher. I rarely need apps from the app drawer. If I needed them frequently, I'd put them on a home screen.

    I also find that the app predictions from the switcher are highly helpful to me. It is uncanny how many times the app I want is there. I can count on my loyalty apps to be there when I need them, to the point that the quick flip up is faster for me than moving over 2 screens to get to my Starbucks/WaWa app. It also knows when I need my music and pocket caster app a very high percentage of the time.

    As with all features, it depends on how well they work for individuals. The recent changes fit into my workflow very well, and I guess I am very predictable, because the device seems to know what I need better than I do all to frequently.
    DMP89145 likes this.
    10-21-2018 03:09 PM
  11. I Can Be Your Hero's Avatar
    Your examples are not even close to objective. For instance:



    The old multi task button was static on screen, botton right. Thus to take action, your thumb has to tap, bottom right. With the gestures system, the same is accomplished with a single flick up from anywhere in the lower region of the phone. left, center, right, search bar, app row... That's not objectively slower or more cumbersome. If anything, quite the opposite.

    Swiping up to get to the multitasker is slower and requires your thumb to be on the screen longer than tapping the square in the old system. So it is slower.

    In addition all the other points I mentioned, it's slower to navigate and do what you want to do. It doesn't do anything faster or more efficiently than the old system.

    It's a polarising system that needs a lot of work. I do think that gestures are the way of the future and think tapping buttons is on the way out and am firm with that. It just needs to be implemented much better. Apple did really well with the iPhone X gestures, as have OnePlus and other manufacturers. Google should have held off on completely removing the old system and making this the default until they have a full solution imo.

    Not entirely true. Nova on my Phone the swipe up still brings up previously opened apps. The second swipe up doesn't do anything now. To get to the app drawer I have to tape on the 6 little dots.
    I see. I don't use Nova, just the Pixel launcher, so not sure how it worked.
    mustang7757 likes this.
    10-21-2018 03:18 PM
  12. mustang7757's Avatar
    I wonder what data they have on how much folks go into their app drawer versus the switcher. I rarely need apps from the app drawer. If I needed them frequently, I'd put them on a home screen.

    I also find that the app predictions from the switcher are highly helpful to me. It is uncanny how many times the app I want is there. I can count on my loyalty apps to be there when I need them, to the point that the quick flip up is faster for me than moving over 2 screens to get to my Starbucks/WaWa app. It also knows when I need my music and pocket caster app a very high percentage of the time.

    As with all features, it depends on how well they work for individuals. The recent changes fit into my workflow very well, and I guess I am very predictable, because the device seems to know what I need better than I do all to frequently.
    No I agree for majority of the people it work fine, but when you use different phones from other manufacturers you see the difference in the gestures . This debate has been since pixel 2 in beta lol. I do believe Google will change this just a gut feeling. But it won't stop me from using the phone except complain a little hahaha
    10-21-2018 03:20 PM
  13. I Can Be Your Hero's Avatar
    I also find that the app predictions from the switcher are highly helpful to me. It is uncanny how many times the app I want is there. I can count on my loyalty apps to be there when I need them, to the point that the quick flip up is faster for me than moving over 2 screens to get to my Starbucks/WaWa app. It also knows when I need my music and pocket caster app a very high percentage of the time.
    I don't find that useful at all. For me, it doesn't seem to predict the apps I need to use. I go to work every day and use Microsoft Outlook and OneNote every day, but guaranteed in the morning when I get to work, neither of the two apps are suggested. They'll only appear once I have opened them, then they'll start to be suggested.

    In addition to that, the placement of the apps seems completely random. Of the 5 app icons, the apps can be in any order with (from what I can tell) no logic behind why they're played that way. So even if it did predict that I need Microsoft Outlook, it'll be in one of five locations that I'd have to scan my eyes over to look for. And if it didn't suggest it, I still have to scan my eyes in the hopes that they did predict it. If could choose the 5 icons I want and set it, at least I'd know that I have 5 icons that will always be there and I'd always know the placement so my muscle memory would train over time. But right now the apps and order of them just seem random to me. Or at least, it's likely to suggest apps you've used recently, rather than being intelligent and figuring out it's Monday morning at 10am, your location is your workplace that you've told Google, so based on those metrics, it's highly likely that you will need the Outlook app.

    I think it's something that could be really useful of it got much, much smarter about what it suggests, or just let us assign the applications to appear. Maybe allow assigning apps based location and time.
    10-21-2018 03:31 PM
  14. DMP89145's Avatar
    I don't think it's so much for changing to gestures I prefer it over buttons but how they did it . It makes no sense to me to do double swipe waste of time where I want to go. They trying something that's most of a manufacturers didn't do with their gestures. why? Are all these other phone manufacturers wrong ? I rarely go into the recent apps menu , but I do go to my app drawer to see my apps I haven't put on my home screen. Why couldn't 2 swipes bring the recent app and one quick to app drawer. Just it could've been done different. I love changes when it's done right .
    I hear ya. User cases are as different as fingerprints, for sure. It's fair to compare Pie to other gesture systems. I just read some of the "problems" with the system that aren't really problems as much as they are preferences. For someone like me, the new system has to be the most intuitive I've ever used on Android. I'm saying this as someone who initially was highly skeptikal about the change, before I fully utilized it.

    The app drawer is great for storage, but I think the new system with predictions and search bar available throughout is more efficient. You need an app not in predictions..? One or two letters in search brings it right up and from any location. So much more can be accomplished just from the app switcher than just switching between recent apps.

    Needing the app drawer has been regulated "to the bench" in my use case. Pie has really edited down a lot wasted effort with the interface. I wonder if we even need more than one panel anymore.

    The square multi-task button was a staple, and 100% get why tech heads grew to love it, but Google says user data suggests most people rarely touched it. To me, that says it was time to let it go.
    10-21-2018 03:35 PM
  15. chezm's Avatar
    Wow a lot of unhappy people with these new gestures. Me, I’ve been navigating my iOS and androids the same way for MANY years (essentially since their existence), I’m excited to begin using this new system just for a change of pace and something fresh/new. I’m not someone who does 10 tasks in less than a minute, so if switching apps or going into some option is 1-2 steps more I think I’ll be ok with it. I’m more excited to have a UI that feels different from what I’ve esentially got bored of many years ago.
    Coop61 likes this.
    10-21-2018 03:36 PM
  16. DMP89145's Avatar
    Swiping up to get to the multitasker is slower and requires your thumb to be on the screen longer than tapping the square in the old system. So it is slower.

    In addition all the other points I mentioned, it's slower to navigate and do what you want to do. It doesn't do anything faster or more efficiently than the old system.
    We'll have to agree to disagree, it seems. I just don't see a static button in the lower corner more efficient than accomplishing the same from more surface area and less effort.
    10-21-2018 03:40 PM
  17. SteelGator's Avatar
    No I agree for majority of the people it work fine, but when you use different phones from other manufacturers you see the difference in the gestures . This debate has been since pixel 2 in beta lol. I do believe Google will change this just a gut feeling. But it won't stop me from using the phone except complain a little hahaha
    I do like the gestures on some of the other OS as well and there is room for improvement. I think there is a lot they did well with it, and I know they collect crazy levels of data on how we use our phones. Without seeing that data it is hard to objectively judge their decisions. I work with development teams all the time (not in phone tech) and it is amazing how differently expert users use devices when compared to the general user.
    mustang7757 likes this.
    10-21-2018 05:18 PM
  18. mustang7757's Avatar
    I do like the gestures on some of the other OS as well and there is room for improvement. I think there is a lot they did well with it, and I know they collect crazy levels of data on how we use our phones. Without seeing that data it is hard to objectively judge their decisions. I work with development teams all the time (not in phone tech) and it is amazing how differently expert users use devices when compared to the general user.
    Check out this videohttps://youtu.be/JFcQovHhptE
    10-21-2018 05:32 PM
  19. mustang7757's Avatar
    Check out this videohttps://youtu.be/JFcQovHhptE
    Robisan and SteelGator like this.
    10-21-2018 05:33 PM
  20. mustang7757's Avatar
    I think Google will do the Motorola gestures in future
    10-21-2018 05:33 PM
  21. SteelGator's Avatar
    I think Google will do the Motorola gestures in future
    Yeah, I saw that. I like Droid Life. Won't be the first time that Google steals from Moto. I love my Moto Droid MAXX way back. They just did not stay current with software, and then were sold to Lenovo. Moto still does a lot well.
    mustang7757 likes this.
    10-21-2018 05:47 PM
  22. mustang7757's Avatar
    Yeah, I saw that. I like Droid Life. Won't be the first time that Google steals from Moto. I love my Moto Droid MAXX way back. They just did not stay current with software, and then were sold to Lenovo. Moto still does a lot well.
    Only Moto phone I used was x4 was decent for it's price
    10-21-2018 05:51 PM
  23. SteelGator's Avatar
    Only Moto phone I used was x4 was decent for it's price
    By my recollection, they were the first to have a mostly stock experience. Their skin was very light, and most of the features they added initially were great -- and adopted into Android in one way or another. The Maxx was the first Moto X with a bigger battery and maybe a couple other things made exclusively for Verizon. The active display was introduced then along with a twist gesture to launch the camera. There are more, but the old phones are all blending together in my head.
    mustang7757 likes this.
    10-21-2018 06:05 PM
  24. mustang7757's Avatar
    By my recollection, they were the first to have a mostly stock experience. Their skin was very light, and most of the features they added initially were great -- and adopted into Android in one way or another. The Maxx was the first Moto X with a bigger battery and maybe a couple other things made exclusively for Verizon. The active display was introduced then along with a twist gesture to launch the camera. There are more, but the old phones are all blending together in my head.
    I remember it having good reception also.
    SteelGator likes this.
    10-21-2018 06:06 PM
  25. Kayza's Avatar
    I use to use Nova , haven't in past 2 years always have it ready but prefer stock launcher in my phones
    I can see why. But, for anyone for whom the navigation is a non-starter obviously doesn't feel quite the same way about it.
    mustang7757 likes this.
    10-21-2018 06:52 PM
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