Huge downside to no fingerprint on the 4

[Mike Dee]

The whole move to facial recognition never made sense to me.

1. The FPS is a secure, mature technology that adds negligible cost to a device, and has no downsides other than aesthetic. No issues with waterproofing.

2. FPS sensors have been known to be scratched up with no issue - good luck with that if the glass over the facial recognition sensors get scratched.

3. Twins and close family relations are not remotely likely to be able to be admitted use via FPS; same can't be said for facial recognition.

4. App culture has fully embraced FPS. As posted above, this will generate headaches for people till (and if) they fully embrace facial recognition.

5. Nobody is going to ever have a chance of tricking me into unwittingly unlocking my phone with my fingerprint. With facial recognition, all it would take is a "hey Jeremy" to get me to look their way, and someone had picked up my phone and pointed it towards me first...

6. With FPS one only has to be able to physically hold their phone to unlock it. Devices like the prior Pixels, with ergonomic rear placement, are so intuitive to unlock that most users will unlock them simply in the act of picking them up or pulling from a pocket unless they opt not to.

Facial recognition is cool, but it's a solution that didn't have a problem that wasn't already better solved. It's a shame they didn't retain the rear FPS alongside the facial recognition. Or, if they really wanted to clean up the back, integrate it into the power button as with the Slate.

I don't have any objection to facial recognition. I'm glad that they appear to have sought a more capable system approach with the addition of Soli sensors so that the sensors required solely to offer it have additional potential functionality to justify the space they take up. But dropping the FPS is definitely a step backwards.

I think it's safe to say If we went by changes that made sense we'd have very few changes.

 

[KPMcClave]

I think it's safe to say If we went by changes that made sense we'd have very few changes.

That's not even remotely true.

"Necessity is the mother of invention."

As I posted previously, this was a solution without a problem.

 

[Mike Dee]

That's not even remotely true.

"Necessity is the mother of invention."

As I posted previously, this was a solution without a problem.

In your opinion it's not remotely, true but that doesnt make my statement less true because that's my opinion.

We've had lots of changes no one asked for that were rammed down our throats. Its possible you liked those changes and felt them neccessary but many would disagree.

Everyone is different and what may be irrelevant to you or I may be relevant to someone else. If you want examples of changes that I felt were unnecessary I can list them for you, but I'm sure you can think of some.

 

[KPMcClave]

In your opinion it's not remotely, true but that doesnt make my statement less true because that's my opinion.

We've had lots of changes no one asked for that were rammed down our throats. Its possible you liked those changes and felt them neccessary but many would disagree.

Everyone is different and what may be irrelevant to you or I may be relevant to someone else. If you want examples of changes that I felt were unnecessary I can list them for you, but I'm sure you can think of some.

You didn't say they were not asked for, irrelevant, you didn't like them, or anything other than, "I think it's safe to say If we went by changes that made sense we'd have very few changes."

More changes than not make sense. I'd rather have better battery life than an ultra-slim phone. However, the desire to make phones thinner makes sense to me, even if I may not prefer that.

 

[Mike Dee]

You didn't say they were not asked for, irrelevant, you didn't like them, or anything other than, "I think it's safe to say If we went by changes that made sense we'd have very few changes."

More changes than not make sense. I'd rather have better battery life than an ultra-slim phone. However, the desire to make phones thinner makes sense to me, even if I may not prefer that.

I made a general statement up front. I expanded upon that statement. Not clear why I need to explain myself. Everyone can have an opinion without being told it's not even remotely true. Truth is... your truth is different than my truth because we all have different perspectives. I stated my opinion and did not come here to debate its potential truth.

 

[Mr MnmlEngr]

The whole move to facial recognition never made sense to me.

5. Nobody is going to ever have a chance of tricking me into unwittingly unlocking my phone with my fingerprint. With facial recognition, all it would take is a "hey Jeremy" to get me to look their way, and someone had picked up my phone and pointed it towards me first...

You've got some skeevy friends if you have to actually worry about that...

Apple's Face ID replaced their Touch ID. All apps that accepted Touch (including banking apps) accepted Face ID. I would imagine Google has worked out the same arrangement. So if you have a face, you should be good.

This is what I'm hoping for as well, and what makes this whole argument closer to, but not entirely moot. In a perfect world, it wouldn't be a question of if one would lose the ability to unlock an app with a fingerprint, but if that same app also offers the ability to unlock it with a facial ID. If they do, then as far as the app developer is concerned, the two methods are equally as secure (whether that's actually true or not). If the app doesn't offer face unlock, then as is true for any device without a fingerprint sensor right now, you could still unlock the app with alternative means, such as a password or PIN. It's what we had to do during the transition to FP sensors years back.

If you disagree with the app developer and you don't feel that a face ID is a secure method, then no one's saying you don't have to use it. Again, the above alternative authentication methods are available to you.
As always, there is a subjective balance between security and convenience; and in my opinion, people are too upset that they can't have both exactly in the way they want it. If that's the case, then I invite you to consider other phones that may offer what you're looking for.

 

[Jeremy8000]

You've got some skeevy friends if you have to actually worry about that...

Perhaps a better example would for someone to pick up my phone if I'd set it down (on a table or counter, for example) and then say "hey is this your phone?"

There's enough 'skeevy' people in this world that that, while perhaps extremely unlikely, is not a 100% neglible concern - where it would be were the phone secured through a FPS.

Of course, if one really wants proper security, a good password is still by far the best bet.

 

[AnnDroid]

Perhaps a better example would for someone to pick up my phone if I'd set it down (on a table or counter, for example) and then say "hey is this your phone?"

There's enough 'skeevy' people in this world that that, while perhaps extremely unlikely, is not a 100% neglible concern - where it would be were the phone secured through a FPS.

Of course, if one really wants proper security, a good password is still by far the best bet.

That is my concern. How about when a police officer, airport TSA, or a robbery? Easy to unlock without my consent. With fingerprint, I can refuse. I use my ring finger to unlock. So, if forced/demanted to unlock, I'll play dumb trying to unlock with the typical pointer finger until the phone locks because of too many attempts.

 

[EMGSM]

If it works equally good as Apple face unlock, shouldn't be a issue. But if they could of done both would been great.

This^ +1

 

[Mike Dee]

That is my concern. How about when a police officer, airport TSA, or a robbery? Easy to unlock without my consent. With fingerprint, I can refuse. I use my ring finger to unlock. So, if forced/demanted to unlock, I'll play dumb trying to unlock with the typical pointer finger until the phone locks because of too many attempts.

I don't think you can refuse to unlock any biometrics. Just put the phone in lockdown mode if you're that worried about the police.

 

[Jeremy8000]

I don't think you can refuse to unlock any biometrics. Just put the phone in lockdown mode if you're that worried about the police.

Police have no right to require biometric unlock (without a warrant).

https://www.zdnet.com/article/police-cant-force-us-citizens-to-unlock-their-phone-by-face-or-finger/

Of course, that doesn't mean they can't lead people to the assumption that they cannot refuse, if they don't know - or that all law enforcement is properly trained to understand that they are not so empowered.

 

[J Dubbs]

That's not even remotely true.

"Necessity is the mother of invention."

As I posted previously, this was a solution without a problem.

Oh there was a problem...... it was called "mo money needed"

 

[Ten Four]

In my experience not many apps offer fingerprint unlock, but when they do it is hugely useful. I suspect it will be awhile before all of them offer facial unlocking as an alternative on both iOS and Android. Usually app developers add features on iOS first too. Plus, I ride a motorcycle and sometimes want to unlock my phone without taking off my helmet and sunglasses. Will it work? Or when skiing and wearing a face mask? It would be a pain to have to take off a helmet and face mask on a ski lift just to be able to use my phone, so I guess it's back to using a short PIN.

 

[pdarrah]

I think this is enough for me to stick with my Pixel 3. My son uses a face unlock on his HP laptop - it often has trouble when his hair style changes (it grows fast and he goes from fairly long hair to short to long again every 6 months or so.) It also has issues with his glasses - if they have slid down his nose or there is a reflection off them.

I just don't want to deal with any of that to just get into my phone many, many times per day.

I have long hair - sometimes it's pulled back, sometimes it is around my face, sometimes it is braided, or parted to the side, etc. I also wear reading glasses - sometimes they are on when I unlock my phone, sometimes they aren't. I actually have about 10 different pairs of reading glasses - at work: 1 on my desk, 1 by the postage scale, at home: 1 in the kitchen, 1 in the living room, 1 in the bathroom, 1 in my bedroom, 1 by my computer, and so on. They are NOT all identical - picked up at different times and places - different styles/colors/sizes. I do not have any faith that my phone is going to recognize all these combinations - but my fingerprint ALWAYS works. (I had my phone learn 2 so even if one has a bandaid or something, I can use the other.)

I don't see any advantage to having face unlock - "if it ain't broke, don't fix it!"

 

[mrpackerguy]

In my experience not many apps offer fingerprint unlock, but when they do it is hugely useful. I suspect it will be awhile before all of them offer facial unlocking as an alternative on both iOS and Android. Usually app developers add features on iOS first too. Plus, I ride a motorcycle and sometimes want to unlock my phone without taking off my helmet and sunglasses. Will it work? Or when skiing and wearing a face mask? It would be a pain to have to take off a helmet and face mask on a ski lift just to be able to use my phone, so I guess it's back to using a short PIN.

or just keep your 3!

 

[SupraLB]

I'm no fan of this since it removes the fingerprint. Why not have both?
I'm always unlocking my phone from angles that the camera won't directly see my face. Like sitting at a desk. Or lying on the sofa. While its docked on the dash of my car. Such a huge step backwards from the fingerprint scanner.
You know Google is going to sell your face image to some face recognition company as well. Guarantee that.

 

[ptkelly]

"You've got some skeevy friends if you have to actually worry about that..."

Not everyone I worked with, or for, was a friend. One man I worked with quit when he was caught bugging a fellow employee's office. He was collecting conversations for the boss. Another co-worker was found by a state investigation to be conspiring with the DA's office to frame me.

I had friends who were co-workers but my co-workers were not necessarily my friends.

 

[MrVeda]

Such a shame the FPS is gone on the pixel 4. I loved my 3XL and was so fast to unlock and intuitive. After 6 months the phone started to lag more and more so I swapped for a Note 9 with more Ram and again the FPS was excellent and was placed the same as the Pixel. Then the Note 10+ was launched and I took the bait with the great trade in price and newer features but the front FPS under the screen is garbage. So slow and intermittent and face unlock is hit and miss. Thinking of downgrading back to the Note 9 just to get the fast and consistent FPS again but the screen is glorious on the Note10. Will definitely try the Pixel 4 but wish they had left the rear FPS

 

[SupraLB]

Such a shame the FPS is gone on the pixel 4. I loved my 3XL and was so fast to unlock and intuitive. After 6 months the phone started to lag more and more so I swapped for a Note 9 with more Ram and again the FPS was excellent and was placed the same as the Pixel. Then the Note 10+ was launched and I took the bait with the great trade in price and newer features but the front FPS under the screen is garbage. So slow and intermittent and face unlock is hit and miss. Thinking of downgrading back to the Note 9 just to get the fast and consistent FPS again but the screen is glorious on the Note10. Will definitely try the Pixel 4 but wish they had left the rear FPS

You should try the Pixel 3 now with Android 10. its been really helpful in its way to cut down on background apps. Particularly letting me know when apps are seeking my location and easily blocking them. My Pixel 3XL is still as snappy as the day I purchased (especially with tweaking developer options to eliminate animations).

I'm still bummed about the lack of FPS for the Pixel 4 though. I have no interest in holding my phone up to my face 200 times a day.

 

[Mr MnmlEngr]

In my experience not many apps offer fingerprint unlock, but when they do it is hugely useful. I suspect it will be awhile before all of them offer facial unlocking as an alternative on both iOS and Android. Usually app developers add features on iOS first too. Plus, I ride a motorcycle and sometimes want to unlock my phone without taking off my helmet and sunglasses. Will it work? Or when skiing and wearing a face mask? It would be a pain to have to take off a helmet and face mask on a ski lift just to be able to use my phone, so I guess it's back to using a short PIN.

Just to play devil's advocate for a minute, I'd point out that a lot of the situations you use to illustrate, you might also be wearing gloves. Motorcycling/skiing. And even if you didn't, my fingerprint sensor reliability drops significantly when my fingers are wet/sweaty or dirty. Is that just me?

I'm no fan of this since it removes the fingerprint. Why not have both?

This is the obvious solution, but I fear the answer to that is because a precedent was set when Apple dropped it's FPS for face unlock. I'm guessing there's also a cost and space factor involved in having both.

I think this is enough for me to stick with my Pixel 3. My son uses a face unlock on his HP laptop - it often has trouble when his hair style changes (it grows fast and he goes from fairly long hair to short to long again every 6 months or so.) It also has issues with his glasses - if they have slid down his nose or there is a reflection off them.

I just don't want to deal with any of that to just get into my phone many, many times per day.

I have long hair - sometimes it's pulled back, sometimes it is around my face, sometimes it is braided, or parted to the side, etc. I also wear reading glasses - sometimes they are on when I unlock my phone, sometimes they aren't. I actually have about 10 different pairs of reading glasses - at work: 1 on my desk, 1 by the postage scale, at home: 1 in the kitchen, 1 in the living room, 1 in the bathroom, 1 in my bedroom, 1 by my computer, and so on. They are NOT all identical - picked up at different times and places - different styles/colors/sizes. I do not have any faith that my phone is going to recognize all these combinations - but my fingerprint ALWAYS works. (I had my phone learn 2 so even if one has a bandaid or something, I can use the other.)

I don't see any advantage to having face unlock - "if it ain't broke, don't fix it!"

I think reliability of the Soli sensor in situations like this (hairdo, angles, glasses, etc.) will increase drammatically once Google fields it in the P4 and can start applying it's machine learning to it. Why do you think they were allegedly paying people for scans of their face? For input data to make it more reliable and able to read the varations of a person's face. I imagine the P4 Face Unlock sensor will be workably reliable by launch, but it will only get better with time as more data starts coming in for it's algorithm.