Can't agree with Pixel being the top based on their current "Best Android Phone" article

GMC MaXx

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Re: Can't agree with Pixel being the top based on their current "Best Android Phone" article

In my opinion, I don't like the white/silver look because the glass on the back of the device is white and the white/silver combo on the back looks strange to me. The Quite Black model is really nice looking so I would recommend that color over the silver one personally.

I typically go for a black face phone. I like the completely black slab when the screen is off. However, the Pixel is different. The black front is not truly black. It's more of a dark grey. When the screen is off, it really stands out that it isn't black. It just doesn't look right. So, for that reason, I got a white/silver. I was concerned about the white front being distracting. It's not. When I'm using the phone in the dark before bed, I can't even tell if it's white or black.
 

GMC MaXx

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Re: Can't agree with Pixel being the top based on their current "Best Android Phone" article

This is a little off topic but I have not been able to see a Pixel in person. How does the white phone look in person? Considering going to Best Buy, which is an hour away, to get the white Pixel XL. I've never had a white phone so I am unsure.

I got the white. It's my first white phone. I had a hard time making the decision until I looked at both in person. The black phone does NOT have a truly black front. It's a dark grey and it does not blend seamlessly into the screen like most other black faced phones. It looks like an oversight and bothers my OCD.
The white phone looks a lot more "polished" imo.
 

Gdwheel

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Re: Can't agree with Pixel being the top based on their current "Best Android Phone" article

Knew it was going to come down to this. Another Samsung *aheming* thread. SMH.

Why wouldn't it come down to comparison with the S7 line, the iPhone 7 or maybe the HTC 10? They are regarded as the best phones of 2016 by most reviewers. If the Pixels are going to be compared to anything they should be compared to the best. What did you expect, comparison to the BLU Dash?
 

1213 1213

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Re: Can't agree with Pixel being the top based on their current "Best Android Phone" article

There's very good reason to believe that no devices that fail to support seamless updates will not receive 8.0 and there's also reason to believe that Qualcomm is not going to provide the necessary driver support old chipsets that will be necessary to run N properly and O at all.

Based on what I've read and heard, it is very possible that the Galaxy S8 will never get O.

On price, I will not consider "deals" because that's not an apples to apples comparison. MSRP is what is compared on price consideration.

Please try to quantify your disagreements on the tally if your goal is to refute it.
That tally was merely an expression of what you think, just because you quantified it, it doesn't give it any more value and due to the way you summed things up it has even less value than words. It is totally useless and I don't understand why you think it helped make any sort of point.

You can't bang on about price and then say that people who care about price don't care enough to get a good deal on price. Yet again, you just aren't making sense.

And about your first point, you keep saying this, but have yet to provide a single reason to think the s7 won't get android n and o, when Samsung has literally always given two os updates to their flagship. Will you share your evidence, or concede you are incredibly biased?
 

Almeuit

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Re: Can't agree with Pixel being the top based on their current "Best Android Phone" article

That tally was merely an expression on what you think, just because you quantified it, it doesn't give it any more value,

So couldn't the same be said for the entire thread? Or your opinions? Or mine? "Best Phone" is just an opinion since phones are based on needs / wants of the individual.
 

Aquila

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Re: Can't agree with Pixel being the top based on their current "Best Android Phone" article

That tally was merely an expression of what you think, just because you quantified it, it doesn't give it any more value and due to the way you summed things up it has even less value than words. It is totally useless and I don't understand why you think it helped make any sort of point.

You can't bang on about price and then say that people who care about price don't care enough to get a good deal on price. Yet again, you just aren't making sense.

And about your first point, you keep saying this, but have yet to provide a single reason to think the s7 won't get android n and o, when Samsung has literally always given two os updates to their flagship. Will you share your evidence, or concede you are incredibly biased?

I've explained why twice - if you're not getting it, let's just agree to disagree. What Samsung has done in the past is not relevant to the two issues I'm talking about presently.

The chart compares the objective qualities of the devices and ranks them in order. If you 're not getting it, let's just agree to disagree. I'm not going to pretend people's opinions on objective facts are relevant so this conversation is going nowhere super-quick and since you're being rude and belittling, it sounds like that might be the best place to end it.
 

1213 1213

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Re: Can't agree with Pixel being the top based on their current "Best Android Phone" article

So couldn't the same be said for the entire thread? Or your opinions? Or mine? "Best Phone" is just an opinion since phones are based on needs / wants of the individual.
Exactly. I'm just saying it is disingenuous to use numbers and act like they are absolute. Numbers ≠ facts. It is even more disingenuous to sum them up and present it like that.

In my opinion, the complaint made in the op was AC saying the pixel was better than the s7 with very little justification presented, and it seemed a tad deterministic. But since then I've come to realise this is a US focused site, and that's why the benefits in terms of performance and battery in the exynos don't seem to be in the equation.
 

SteelGator

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Re: Can't agree with Pixel being the top based on their current "Best Android Phone" article

Yes, the Edge adds things like water resistance, SD card support, and wireless charging. While important, it doesn't trump the superior software you use every time you unlock the phone on the Pixel. Even if you disagree, you should at least understand why people would feel that way considering how popular the Nexus line was.

This^^^

I find threads like this frustrating, not because people won't change their mind to agree with a certain viewpoint, but because they cannot acknowledge that there are multiple view points that are legit. I believe there are a handful of phones right now that could rightfully be called phone of the year. Pixels are of course in that mix, and my pick. The S7/S7E are in the conversation, maybe the HTC 10, V20, and OPPO3 should be in there too.

At the end of the day, you only get to pick 1 best, and it will be debated, and it won't reflect what is the best for everybody -- at least acknowledge the selection is rational.
 

Aquila

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Re: Can't agree with Pixel being the top based on their current "Best Android Phone" article

The Pixel objectively has assistant, the S7 objectively doesn't. Same with DayDream.
The Pixel objectively has better audio.
Same with internal storage, same with materials, same with price, same with security, resistance to obsolescence, same with security, soc, software, software updates, etc, etc.

The S7 objectively has a MicroSD slot that the Pixel does not have. It objectively has a better IP rating, etc.

There are only two "YMMV" things on the chart, which are battery life and camera and different reviewers have had differing results, so I ranked based on the consensus of reviewers.

Which one I like more has nothing to do with it because we're talking about measurements and/or reviewer consensus for the two things that we don't have enough data for.
 

1213 1213

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Re: Can't agree with Pixel being the top based on their current "Best Android Phone" article

I've explained why twice - if you're not getting it, let's just agree to disagree. What Samsung has done in the past is not relevant to the two issues I'm talking about presently.

The chart compares the objective qualities of the devices and ranks them in order. If you 're not getting it, let's just agree to disagree. I'm not going to pretend people's opinions on objective facts are relevant so this conversation is going nowhere super-quick and since you're being rude and belittling, it sounds like that might be the best place to end it.
Except most of what you said wasn't objective (some was outright false), and you haven't said why the s7 wouldn't get android o. You are quite clearly the one being belittling here. I told you the s5 got two os updates and security updates after that, and you responded by saying the s7 wouldn't get the same treatment and didn't say why, other than 'very good reasons'... :eek:

But sure, keep thinking your biased opinions are facts. But next time keep your tallies to yourself to think about how awesome you think the pixel is, because they aren't useful in a conversation where your views aren't aligned with facts or other people's views.
 

Aquila

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Re: Can't agree with Pixel being the top based on their current "Best Android Phone" article

Except most of what you said wasn't objective (some was outright false), and you haven't said why the s7 wouldn't get android o. You are quite clearly the one being belittling here. I told you the s5 got two os updates and security updates after that, and you responded by saying the s7 wouldn't get the same treatment and didn't say why, other than 'very good reasons'... :eek:

But sure, keep thinking your biased opinions are facts. But next time keep your tallies to yourself to think about how awesome you think the pixel is, because they aren't useful in a conversation where your views aren't aligned with facts or other people's views.

I've explained it twice, at least, but here's a third time.

The S7 does not support seamless updates and it has the SD 820, which does not support the Vulcan API's and might not be updated to have that support. Either one of those things can, according to the best information available, prevent the device from getting O. So the phones from 2.5 years ago that got two updates have no bearing on whether or not Samsung and Google and Qualcomm will be able to work through those two things. If they do come up with a solution that fully mitigates both, then it probably will get the update. If they don't, then O is off the table. I am not saying it will not get O, I am saying there are two very important factors that make it unlikely to receive O. There are good reasons for Google and the OEMs to figure this out, because both issues impact a whole lot of devices, not just the S7 - including the Nexus 6P, etc.
 

Jeremy8000

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Re: Can't agree with Pixel being the top based on their current "Best Android Phone" article

You can't bang on about price and then say that people who care about price don't care enough to get a good deal on price. Yet again, you just aren't making sense.

You make a great point that product value is relative to price, and it's not the retail price but the actual effective price. But with that, you also have to accept the fact that discounts are done for a reason. Generally speaking, products that are being discounted (outside of holiday-type events where pretty much everything is) are to some degree having that reduction in order to offset the loss of competitive edge against other (generally newer) equipment against which they anticipate being less competitive in value, dollar for dollar.
 

Jerry Hildenbrand

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Re: Can't agree with Pixel being the top based on their current "Best Android Phone" article

I've explained it twice, at least, but here's a third time.

The S7 does not support seamless updates and it has the SD 820, which does not support the Vulcan API's and might not be updated to have that support. Either one of those things can, according to the best information available, prevent the device from getting O. So the phones from 2.5 years ago that got two updates have no bearing on whether or not Samsung and Google and Qualcomm will be able to work through those two things. If they do come up with a solution that fully mitigates both, then it probably will get the update. If they don't, then O is off the table. I am not saying it will not get O, I am saying there are two very important factors that make it unlikely to receive O. There are good reasons for Google and the OEMs to figure this out, because both issues impact a whole lot of devices, not just the S7 - including the Nexus 6P, etc.

Google does not sell a device with the SD 820. They will not be able to demand Qualcomm provide support, because they have no contract for support.

I have no idea if Samsung or LG have defined a period of software support with Qualcomm.

As of right now, the Snapdragon 820 will not be able to run the version of OpenGL ES or Vulkan that Google wants to use in future versions of Android. It will take Qualcomm adding further support or Google holding back performance-enhancing changes for Android O to run on the S7.

If Google hadn't made the Pixel, I could see them not forcing the GPU requirements for future versions. Now, doing so holds their own product(s) back and that may not be something they want to do.

This is a drawback for any company that uses an embedded OS they did not write themselves. Samsung can certainly make the Exynos chip in the S7 work with either Vulkan or OpenGL upgrades (or both). But will they want to? That would mean they update several models of phones everywhere except their most lucrative market.

I expect Samsung to push Qualcomm to provide support, and to push Google to not use the new features that require newer versions of Open GL or Vulkan. I have no idea if any of this will be successful. Qualcomm may budge because Samsung is a big customer who could stop buying and build their own chips. But every Exynos chip would still need Qualcomm for the LTE modem in the Americas. It all depends of what's best for the bottom line of every company involved.
 

Jason Stroud1

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Re: Can't agree with Pixel being the top based on their current "Best Android Phone" article

I owned a s7 for six months and traded it for a pixel XL, my wife had the s7 edge,. Coming from someone who has used both, I like the pixel much better. The Samsung's always had a weird lag to them. And I had terrible battery life because all the bloat was eating my battery. The pixel feel much more smooth to me and faster. And I don't think assistant is just a gimmick, I actually use it a lot when I'm driving and have my phone hooked to Bluetooth. Everyone has their preference,. But some people on here are coming off way too strong saying what this and that phone is and what it does when everyone uses their phone differently and has different priorities. So don't be dissing a feature on one phone or the other because you think it's a gimmick or not useful. Everyone just use the phone they like.
 

1213 1213

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Re: Can't agree with Pixel being the top based on their current "Best Android Phone" article

I've explained it twice, at least, but here's a third time.

The S7 does not support seamless updates and it has the SD 820, which does not support the Vulcan API's and might not be updated to have that support. Either one of those things can, according to the best information available, prevent the device from getting O. So the phones from 2.5 years ago that got two updates have no bearing on whether or not Samsung and Google and Qualcomm will be able to work through those two things. If they do come up with a solution that fully mitigates both, then it probably will get the update. If they don't, then O is off the table. I am not saying it will not get O, I am saying there are two very important factors that make it unlikely to receive O. There are good reasons for Google and the OEMs to figure this out, because both issues impact a whole lot of devices, not just the S7 - including the Nexus 6P, etc.
Seamless updates have nothing to do with anything. And the s7 was the first phone to properly support vulkan (how's that for software support?), and yet here you are saying it won't ever support vulkan. Based on absolutely nothing. This is why I say you are biased and you have yet again proved that to be the case.
 

Almeuit

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Re: Can't agree with Pixel being the top based on their current "Best Android Phone" article

Seamless updates have nothing to do with anything. And the s7 was the first phone to properly support vulkan (how's that for software support?), and yet here you are saying it won't ever support vulkan. Based on absolutely nothing. This is why I say you are biased and you have yet again proved that to be the case.

See here - http://forums.androidcentral.com/go...best-android-phone-article-7.html#post5525615 :).
 

Aquila

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Re: Can't agree with Pixel being the top based on their current "Best Android Phone" article

Seamless updates have nothing to do with anything. And the s7 was the first phone to properly support vulkan (how's that for software support?), and yet here you are saying it won't ever support vulkan. Based on absolutely nothing. This is why I say you are biased and you have yet again proved that to be the case.

Seamless updates have a LOT to do with it. I'm not going to be able to convince you on the details of this, but several OEMs have made statements about their frustration with this scenario.

For the rest of it, scroll up.
 

Jerry Hildenbrand

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Re: Can't agree with Pixel being the top based on their current "Best Android Phone" article

Seamless updates have nothing to do with anything.

In all likelihood seamless updates will be the way Android O is maintained.

Samsung can certainly re-partition the phone with an initial Android O update and incorporate them. But they tried re-partitioning a phones once before, and that ended in a Canada-wide recall. It's not easy to do without error.

I have no idea if Google will host and push an update Samsung wrote themselves that does things the existing way. That would be the best solution.
 

Aquila

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Re: Can't agree with Pixel being the top based on their current "Best Android Phone" article

In all likelihood seamless updates will be the way Android O is maintained.

Samsung can certainly re-partition the phone with an initial Android O update and incorporate them. But they tried re-partitioning a phones once before, and that ended in a Canada-wide recall. It's not easy to do without error.

I have no idea if Google will host and push an update Samsung wrote themselves that does things the existing way. That would be the best solution.

A big issue is that seamless updates don't seem to be required on device shipping with N. So, if an OEM doesn't like seamless updates and releases a phone on 7.0 or 7.1 without that feature - they could easily do that in Q1 or Q2 2017 and have their device start and die on N. Shipping the device with O sounds like it will require seamless updates, not doing it on N as a requirement is a bit of a miss IMO - but for the S7, it doesn't matter much - because they shipped with M and likely had nowhere near enough visibility on what Google was planning for 2017 in this particular regard.
 

1213 1213

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Re: Can't agree with Pixel being the top based on their current "Best Android Phone" article

Google does not sell a device with the SD 820. They will not be able to demand Qualcomm provide support, because they have no contract for support.

I have no idea if Samsung or LG have defined a period of software support with Qualcomm.

As of right now, the Snapdragon 820 will not be able to run the version of OpenGL ES or Vulkan that Google wants to use in future versions of Android. It will take Qualcomm adding further support or Google holding back performance-enhancing changes for Android O to run on the S7.

If Google hadn't made the Pixel, I could see them not forcing the GPU requirements for future versions. Now, doing so holds their own product(s) back and that may not be something they want to do.

This is a drawback for any company that uses an embedded OS they did not write themselves. Samsung can certainly make the Exynos chip in the S7 work with either Vulkan or OpenGL upgrades (or both). But will they want to? That would mean they update several models of phones everywhere except their most lucrative market.

I expect Samsung to push Qualcomm to provide support, and to push Google to not use the new features that require newer versions of Open GL or Vulkan. I have no idea if any of this will be successful. Qualcomm may budge because Samsung is a big customer who could stop buying and build their own chips. But every Exynos chip would still need Qualcomm for the LTE modem in the Americas. It all depends of what's best for the bottom line of every company involved.
This is interesting, I couldn't find anything but I presume you have a more developer-side sort of knowledge on this. How do you know what google wants for the future? At the moment the sd 820, exynos 8890, and the s7 itself already support opengl es 3.2, and vulkan. Is there even anything beyond that atm?

But about exynos chips, they are rumoured to be working on cdma support and their own in-house gpu for their 2018 flagships (atm they just use arm, who are in charge of maintaining drivers). So they will move regardless, and if Samsung starts supplying chipsets we might see some competition forcing qualcomm to act.
In all likelihood seamless updates will be the way Android O is maintained.

Samsung can certainly re-partition the phone with an initial Android O update and incorporate them. But they tried re-partitioning a phones once before, and that ended in a Canada-wide recall. It's not easy to do without error.

I have no idea if Google will host and push an update Samsung wrote themselves that does things the existing way. That would be the best solution.
I don't really see this as being something google will force oems to do though. That would be silly. When marshmallow came with encryption, phones prior to that were still updated to marshmallow but just didn't get encryption, even though google basically made it mandatory for any devices launching with marshmallow, iirc. At the moment basically all oems give two updates, I don't think google would force it to become one.

And here is a quote from this site, written by... you lol.
Seamless updates aren't a requirement for manufacturers. Your existing phone isn't partitioned correctly and won't be able to perform seamless updates. And you don't want a future update to try and repartition it — the internal memory was designed to have its record (a map of where each partition lives) written once and never changed. That means the people who make your next phone might not use the seamless update feature because they don't have to. We know that the 2016 Nexus phones will have it enabled, but nothing beyond that.
If google isn't making it a requirement, I don't think it would become an impediment. Similar to encryption. And the fact it isn't a requirement shows that google thinks updates would still be viable without it, I think?