05-23-2017 06:09 PM
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  1. scottfish's Avatar
    I agree, I know that they don't call it the edge Up Plan anymore... I don't care what they call it though because what upset me was being either lied to or misinformed two out of three times and having to contact them a 4th time to get an actual answer.

    When I started using their "payment plan formerly known as the Edge" :-), you only had to pay 50% and then it went up to 60%. They notified me of that change in writing if memory serves.

    About the time I bought my Note 7 is when they eliminated it in the sense that you no longer only paid a portion of the value of the phone. But no one told me that the new payment plan I agreed to was 100%... that's what upset me. And I specifically asked at the store.

    And you still have people at Verizon that will tell you that you don't have to pay 100%. But if you dig, you do...
    I had this exact gripe when I bought my G4 from an Authorized Verizon Retailer. They told me "Don't worry bro, it's the same as Edge" then I foun dout months later when I wanted to upgrade.
    11-25-2016 03:34 PM
  2. curney's Avatar
    the $25 stopped showing up for me before I could order and the vzn chat said it wasnt even an option...
    11-25-2016 03:59 PM
  3. curney's Avatar
    tried again and it works. $25 per month. coolio.
    11-25-2016 04:05 PM
  4. juliesdroidsync's Avatar
    I had this exact gripe when I bought my G4 from an Authorized Verizon Retailer. They told me "Don't worry bro, it's the same as Edge" then I foun dout months later when I wanted to upgrade.
    this ^^^^ is wht I'm talking about... I also used a "Verizon premium reseller". However, it was actually Verizon on my 2nd, 3rd, and 4th contacts finally getting to the bottom of the fact that what I had actually agreed to is 100%.

    I returned the phone, so it doesn't affect me anymore, I just want all y'all to be careful, because they got it past me... but yes, I realize that this *new* plan is different, as it has the 2 year contract agreement. If you know you're not leaving, probably worth it. But the regular DPP, which is not tied to a line contract is 100%.
    11-25-2016 04:06 PM
  5. Unobtanium's Avatar
    So I just left my local VZW Corporate store. I have a grandfathered UDP, and the sales associate's info would not show the device discount for a Pixel. It would do the device payment plan without killing my UDP. So I left unPixelated. If I am going to have to pay full price I will wait and just get one from Google. The good news, if you are looking for 128GB Pixel (not XL) and are on Verizon, they have some in stock in the stores.
    11-25-2016 04:38 PM
  6. 11B1P's Avatar
    Sites you have to do a trade in?
    It made it sound like that, but I have an Lumia Icon and it was only worth $16 and I was not required to trade in. I can if I want.
    11-25-2016 06:28 PM
  7. 11B1P's Avatar
    For those who purchased the XL for $25/month, does your order confirmation show $25/month DPP? I ordered in store however my email order confirmation shows $36.24/mo.
    The first couple months the bill will be a bit higher. Once we get past those months, the discount will kick in.
    11-25-2016 06:30 PM
  8. iOS Gravity's Avatar
    I checked Verizon's Website Thanksgiving morning:
    Pixel 32 GB $10 / month
    Pixel 128 GB $15 / month
    Pixel XL 32 GB $20 / month
    Pixel XL 128 GB $25 / month

    Pixels (both 32 and 128) show some store availability and ship date of 11/29
    Pixel XL 32 GB shows 12/01 ship date
    Pixel XL 128 GB shows January ship date.

    Fine print is the phone has to stay active on a Verizon line for 24 months.
    What I don't understand is that the 128GB Pixel and the 32GB Pixel XL only have a $20 or so difference in their price normally, but this offer is making it $120...
    11-25-2016 09:45 PM
  9. anon(9733642)'s Avatar
    Here's my situation. Traded in an iPhone 7 even swap. Assumed that meant I was out of contract coming from AT&T and porting my line. Once ported and activating it was explained I would receive $27/month credited to my account every month for the next 24 months. Sounds ridiculous but at that point I had signed and phone was ported and iPhone was in the back. So basically I am stuck for two years or some combination of termination fee plus $27 per month left...not happy. Love the phone, feel like I got the shaft
    11-25-2016 11:02 PM
  10. I800C0LLECT's Avatar
    No termination fee... But since he owned the iPhone 7 outright he was free to do as he pleases. Now if he leaves Verizon, he needs to pay off the phone outright.

    He could have kept his iPhone and purchased full price directly from Google and came out ahead. Instead... He gave Verizon his iPhone 7 for no good reason(unless he stays with Verizon for 2 years). He didn't fully understand the deal until the employee finalized the order through.

    It's like a bait and switch. As soon as your phone is in the back they refuse to give it back. They act like it's a black hole. I asked them myself, "what happens if I return my phone during the trial period?" They answered..."select a new phone". They don't give you the opportunity to go back to the trade in. Maybe I haven't been aggressive enough? I dunno... But it's not a good situation to be in when they tell you the phone is gone for good and there's no choice but another purchase
    11-26-2016 12:11 AM
  11. Ry's Avatar
    No termination fee... But since he owned the iPhone 7 outright he was free to do as he pleases. Now if he leaves Verizon, he needs to pay off the phone outright.

    He could have kept his iPhone and purchased full price directly from Google and came out ahead. Instead... He gave Verizon his iPhone 7 for no good reason(unless he stays with Verizon for 2 years). He didn't fully understand the deal until the employee finalized the order through.

    It's like a bait and switch. As soon as your phone is in the back they refuse to give it back. They act like it's a black hole. I asked them myself, "what happens if I return my phone during the trial period?" They answered..."select a new phone". They don't give you the opportunity to go back to the trade in. Maybe I haven't been aggressive enough? I dunno... But it's not a good situation to be in when they tell you the phone is gone for good and there's no choice but another purchase
    IIRC, trade-in deals have always been like that.
    11-26-2016 12:16 AM
  12. I800C0LLECT's Avatar
    I think the bottom line is that he gave them a phone. His "free phone" is based on 24 credits that offset his device payment.

    He feels duped... Since he didn't connect the dots until his trade in was gone. If he returns the "free phone" within his trial period... His trade in can't be returned.

    Here's out a phone... Buy you're right. That's how they've always done it
    11-26-2016 12:59 AM
  13. anon(9733642)'s Avatar
    I think the bottom line is that he gave them a phone. His "free phone" is based on 24 credits that offset his device payment.

    He feels duped... Since he didn't connect the dots until his trade in was gone. If he returns the "free phone" within his trial period... His trade in can't be returned.

    Here's out a phone.
    So I don't feel duped. I WAS duped. Follow me here. I was told the appraised value of my iPhone 7 unlocked paid off and off contract was worth $650, period. I didn't go looking for a deal. Actually had all intentions of selling personally. Was checking it out in person before deciding between S7 Active and Pixel which I asked about in a different thread. I never thought any store would give close to $650 trade, period.

    I told Verizon I wasn't interested and would be buying direct from Google because I WAS with AT&T and preferred a GSM model device. They left me alone. Then a very friendly rep inquired about my FiOS and actually helped me save money increasing my internet speed and changing my channel plan. NO CONTRACT, lol...just had an old plan that's all.

    So a manager came back around and inquired about me buying direct and staying with AT&T. My work phone rang...a 6s issued by work on Verizon...that's when it snowballed.

    He asked how many months were left on my personal account. I explained that I owned my personal phone outright and no contract. He asked about my willingness to switch and I quote, "If the device is free and we lower your bill with your employer discount".

    My employer discount turned out to be 25% off the data plan and 30% off accessories. So now I'm interested. I have no ETF at AT&T, I'll save 25% on a Network I know works because my company phone works great. And he said the device was free. I asked how was the device free. He said that I had the Verizon model (true, I knew when I bought it that would be the CDMA and GSM SIM Free Model eventually and be worth the most). He said the value would completely offset the price of the Pixel.

    Aware of his language, I inquired further. I asked exactly how much my device was being appraised at. He said, "You phone is worth $650 under our terms because that's the max we would pay out between device and ETF if you were switching while under contract still". That statement right there is the only one in hindsight I should have caught that didn't make sense.

    I asked how much my bill would be and he said the following. The "the first month will be prorated and it will take 2-3 months for the system to catch up. So for month one expect about $27 plus proration of line access, plan, and insurances minus discount plus taxes. Once the system catches up they'll credit back the $27 you may have paid the first 2-3 months". We went on at that point and I paid only taxes, plus, screen protector, and case.

    As I was leaving I said half jokingly that I had 14 days to come back if they get an XL in...he stopped me at mid sentence at that point and explained that the iPhone being worth $650 was broken down into a 2 year agreement and credits me $27 a month. If I hadn't said anything neither would he.

    So hours later with time to think it over, my point is I was absolutely not able to make an informed decision because of a definite act of omission that some would call an act of commission as well. I asked all the right questions essentially. I was responded to specifically not vaguely.

    My only mistake, and I own this...is not asking directly about a contract. I assumed based on all info gathered I couldn't possibly be in a contract under these circumstances.

    They get my iPhone today then they pay me for the iPhone $27 a month and I get to use the Pixel instead. That's essentially it.

    Yes I can still get a new phone any time I want and this Pixel doesn't cost me anything. The credits will come in for 2 years, but it's the way they locked me into Verizon that is suspect. Say I want next Galaxy, I can get it, put it on this number and the Pixel sits and costs me nothing. It simply how they handled everything.
    11-26-2016 03:14 AM
  14. anon(9227267)'s Avatar
    Oh i feel bad for all getting suckered in by Verizon. I've been with them 24 years. 3 years ago they started to pull shenanigans that slowly and decietlly raise your bill if you're not watching closely. I caught them so many times that when confronted, they always give me huge refunds. But, alas, I started changing my phones, 1 by 1,to project fi. Ive had no coverage issues, same 4glte speeds, half the cost, no contracts, and no BULL ****. I bought my pixel from Google. But honestly my S7 edge, and Axon 7 that are better.
    Thank you for echoing my thoughts - I'll be porting my VZW number to a Google Store bought Pixel when it arrives in a few days.
    11-26-2016 08:36 AM
  15. Ry's Avatar
    So I don't feel duped. I WAS duped. Follow me here. I was told the appraised value of my iPhone 7 unlocked paid off and off contract was worth $650, period. I didn't go looking for a deal. Actually had all intentions of selling personally. Was checking it out in person before deciding between S7 Active and Pixel which I asked about in a different thread. I never thought any store would give close to $650 trade, period.

    I told Verizon I wasn't interested and would be buying direct from Google because I WAS with AT&T and preferred a GSM model device. They left me alone. Then a very friendly rep inquired about my FiOS and actually helped me save money increasing my internet speed and changing my channel plan. NO CONTRACT, lol...just had an old plan that's all.

    So a manager came back around and inquired about me buying direct and staying with AT&T. My work phone rang...a 6s issued by work on Verizon...that's when it snowballed.

    He asked how many months were left on my personal account. I explained that I owned my personal phone outright and no contract. He asked about my willingness to switch and I quote, "If the device is free and we lower your bill with your employer discount".

    My employer discount turned out to be 25% off the data plan and 30% off accessories. So now I'm interested. I have no ETF at AT&T, I'll save 25% on a Network I know works because my company phone works great. And he said the device was free. I asked how was the device free. He said that I had the Verizon model (true, I knew when I bought it that would be the CDMA and GSM SIM Free Model eventually and be worth the most). He said the value would completely offset the price of the Pixel.

    Aware of his language, I inquired further. I asked exactly how much my device was being appraised at. He said, "You phone is worth $650 under our terms because that's the max we would pay out between device and ETF if you were switching while under contract still". That statement right there is the only one in hindsight I should have caught that didn't make sense.

    I asked how much my bill would be and he said the following. The "the first month will be prorated and it will take 2-3 months for the system to catch up. So for month one expect about $27 plus proration of line access, plan, and insurances minus discount plus taxes. Once the system catches up they'll credit back the $27 you may have paid the first 2-3 months". We went on at that point and I paid only taxes, plus, screen protector, and case.

    As I was leaving I said half jokingly that I had 14 days to come back if they get an XL in...he stopped me at mid sentence at that point and explained that the iPhone being worth $650 was broken down into a 2 year agreement and credits me $27 a month. If I hadn't said anything neither would he.

    So hours later with time to think it over, my point is I was absolutely not able to make an informed decision because of a definite act of omission that some would call an act of commission as well. I asked all the right questions essentially. I was responded to specifically not vaguely.

    My only mistake, and I own this...is not asking directly about a contract. I assumed based on all info gathered I couldn't possibly be in a contract under these circumstances.

    They get my iPhone today then they pay me for the iPhone $27 a month and I get to use the Pixel instead. That's essentially it.

    Yes I can still get a new phone any time I want and this Pixel doesn't cost me anything. The credits will come in for 2 years, but it's the way they locked me into Verizon that is suspect. Say I want next Galaxy, I can get it, put it on this number and the Pixel sits and costs me nothing. It simply how they handled everything.
    If you didn't notice, all carriers have gone to this deceptive lock-in via bill credits.

    It's the new two-year contract without being a two-year contract.
    AustinTech likes this.
    11-26-2016 09:58 AM
  16. vzwuser76's Avatar
    PIXEL AND PIXEL XL (VERIZON ONLY)
    Google Pixel or Pixel XL with 32GB of storage for $240 and Pixel or Pixel XL with 128GB of storage for $360 (The catch: you have to pay $649.99 up front; the difference will be deducted from your wireless bill month to month over the next two years)
    Get the Pixel 32GB for $10 a month or the Pixel 128GB for just $15 a month (valid only November 24th and November 25th)
    Save $200 on Pixel and Pixel XL when switching to Verizon or adding a line to an existing account (valid only November 24th to November 27th; valid for any Android smartphone priced $400 or higher)
    Save $100 on Pixel or Pixel XL when upgrading as a current customer (valid for any Android smartphone $400 or higher

    This is the current deal just posted online for those who may have questions.
    I ordered a 128GB Pixel on Thursday morning. I didn't pay the entire amount upfront. The only thing I paid upfront was the sales tax. Even the upgrade fee was waived because I did it online.

    You don't have to pay the full amount upfront. You do pay the full amount per month ($31.25 a month for a 128GB Pixel) for 2 or 3 months and then after that you get bill credits bringing it down to $15. And from what I got from the CSRs I spoke to yesterday, you only keep the line active. You don't have to keep the phone active. I'm going to be upgrading on another line and transferring it to mine, but told them I'll probably go back and forth between my phones. The CSR said that would be fine.
    11-26-2016 10:53 AM
  17. vzwuser76's Avatar
    It needs to stay active on the line for the 24 months I'm reading. No phone switching then? 2 years is a long time to stay on one phone. That's a hell of a catch.
    Here are the terms for deal direct from the press release on Verizon's website.

    **For 24 months on device payment for qualified customers. Thursday and Friday online and Friday in-store only. Up to $672.00 device payment purchase req’d. Less up to $432 bill credit applied to account over 24 mos.; credit begins within 2–3 cycles & ends when balance paid; 0% APR. Line must be active for 24 mos. to get full credit.

    So as it says here, you don't have to pay the full price upfront, only that the total must be up to $672. It also says that only the line must be active for 24 months to get full credit, not that you need to keep that phone on that line for 24 months.
    11-26-2016 10:58 AM
  18. anon(9733642)'s Avatar
    If you didn't notice, all carriers have gone to this deceptive lock-in via bill credits.

    It's the new two-year contract without being a two-year contract.
    Yup, now I noticed. Luckily I'm happy with the "network service" and love the phone. Two years between phones for me is an eternity but this is still technically free...well swapped. And I spoke with Verizon this morning and there might be something we can do...but they "are calling me back"
    11-26-2016 11:01 AM
  19. anon(9733642)'s Avatar
    Here are the terms for deal direct from the press release on Verizon's website.

    **For 24 months on device payment for qualified customers. Thursday and Friday online and Friday in-store only. Up to $672.00 device payment purchase req’d. Less up to $432 bill credit applied to account over 24 mos.; credit begins within 2–3 cycles & ends when balance paid; 0% APR. Line must be active for 24 mos. to get full credit.

    So as it says here, you don't have to pay the full price upfront, only that the total must be up to $672. It also says that only the line must be active for 24 months to get full credit, not that you need to keep that phone on that line for 24 months.
    I completely understand that now and appreciate the attempts to explain. It's not the terms I have an issue with. I know I can swap phones etc. The bottom line is "the terms" were blatantly omitted from the conversation. I didn't even sign a contract. I have 3 receipts for cash paid for taxes, screen protector, and case. No printout of plan, insurance terms, anything.

    I understand and accept the terms now and have cooled off but those were blatantly not the terms presented. I was lied too. Why is that not believable. Like I paid $750 cash for an iPhone 7 a month ago. Money wasn't the issue. It was how they handled it. Period. Regardless of the terms. On good faith I was not presented with any terms. I was given a verbal different from the terms. I think I've made my point.

    I appreciate all opinions whether agree or disagree with me. I welcome explanations, etc. That's what the forums are for.
    11-26-2016 11:17 AM
  20. recDNA's Avatar
    I got dead wrong info 2 days b4 the sale then unclear info the day of the sale. I kept asking exactly what I would owe if I wanted to pay off in 6 months. I get it now but neither phone support (usually the best) nor chat support nor store clerk would give me a clear cut formula and answer. They were all well trained to change the subject or attempt to then when I kept asking the same question they would stall until I gave up. Now I understand it. Deal not so great if you know you want to dump phone in a few months and I know I will. Whether I would go with s8 or note 8 or iphone 8 plus only time will tell.
    11-26-2016 11:38 AM
  21. I800C0LLECT's Avatar
    I've been with them 20 and never experienced what you experienced.
    I definitely have. They couldn't figure out the trade in promotion for myself until day 14. Unfortunately, the system doesn't show $300 credit for the s6 or $200 for the other phone. If my bill credit doesn't go through I'm dropping them.

    They couldn't figure out how to get my free screen replacement with my droid turbo. They couldn't figure out how to let me use my extended warranty when my LG G2 digitizer went bad. They couldn't figure out how to downgrade my plan for 6 months after THEY upgraded me without permission.

    They just messed up my promotion details. They also charged me twice for my edge upgrade when I did that.

    I have quite an issue with their compartmentalized systems and inept employees that seems to always benefit Verizon.

    I'm getting ready to file a report with better business bureau. They wonder why they're losing people to T-Mobile. People just want good customer service. Not a company that puts their nose up in the air at competitors and customers
    11-26-2016 12:36 PM
  22. vzwuser76's Avatar
    I completely understand that now and appreciate the attempts to explain. It's not the terms I have an issue with. I know I can swap phones etc. The bottom line is "the terms" were blatantly omitted from the conversation. I didn't even sign a contract. I have 3 receipts for cash paid for taxes, screen protector, and case. No printout of plan, insurance terms, anything.

    I understand and accept the terms now and have cooled off but those were blatantly not the terms presented. I was lied too. Why is that not believable. Like I paid $750 cash for an iPhone 7 a month ago. Money wasn't the issue. It was how they handled it. Period. Regardless of the terms. On good faith I was not presented with any terms. I was given a verbal different from the terms. I think I've made my point.

    I appreciate all opinions whether agree or disagree with me. I welcome explanations, etc. That's what the forums are for.
    All of the things you mentioned should be in your MyVerizon account. They've been moving to eliminate paper for awhile now, they make them available for you to printout. Back when I started with them, I used to get a ton of paperwork when I only upgraded a device or changed my plan. I actually prefer this, the info is there when I need it, and can be printed out if necessary.

    If you want that stuff upfront and in writing, why not ask for it? I do that when necessary and I also make sure that my asking and the info are noted by the CSRs I talk to on my account.
    11-26-2016 05:01 PM
  23. anon(9733642)'s Avatar
    All of the things you mentioned should be in your MyVerizon account. They've been moving to eliminate paper for awhile now, they make them available for you to printout. Back when I started with them, I used to get a ton of paperwork when I only upgraded a device or changed my plan. I actually prefer this, the info is there when I need it, and can be printed out if necessary.

    If you want that stuff upfront and in writing, why not ask for it? I do that when necessary and I also make sure that my asking and the info are noted by the CSRs I talk to on my account.
    So fair point, the info is on the website.

    Counterpoint, when I asked they were not honest and they omitted what would have kept me from trading and porting.

    BUT seriously at the end of the day stop looking for ways to defend how this was handled. I get it. I don't care about anything other than the fact that if you were there you'd understand I was lied to, period.

    There really is no longer a reason for me to comment or respond as I'm handling it my way which will I'm sure spark more comments.

    I don't need more people telling me the terms and what I could have done. They flat out lied...thankfully financially it's a blip on the radar in a sense. I did pay $750 for an unlocked iPhone 7, so its not the money. I've avoided saying that cause it sounds gaudy. I like tech. I've had 26 smartphones going back to the original BlackBerry. I don't like contracts.

    Resolution:
    Pay: $350 ETF and Pay $650 phone price.
    That's $1000 and lost iPhone
    Still cheaper than the $2500+ in service Verizon would get from me over the next 2 years. I'd rather THEM NOT get the next 2 years of my business.

    Port back to AT&T with the unlocked Pixel
    Yes, I'll lose the iPhone and $1000, but I refuse to continue doing business with Verizon. If I stayed that bill would probably annoy me every month.

    So yes I'm crazy. I basically just will have paid $1000 plus an iPhone 7 for a Pixel. I easily could have paid Google $650 for the Pixel and sold the iPhone myself like my original plan until I was 100% lied to...again don't show me the terms or give me a buyer beware line...I was told it was a wash.

    Thanks everyone for your thoughts...I sincerely appreciate them, but I'm out of this thread unless someone wants to discuss a similar situation and they handled it. My situation is over in my mind.
    11-26-2016 07:08 PM
  24. Ry's Avatar
    All of the things you mentioned should be in your MyVerizon account. They've been moving to eliminate paper for awhile now, they make them available for you to printout. Back when I started with them, I used to get a ton of paperwork when I only upgraded a device or changed my plan. I actually prefer this, the info is there when I need it, and can be printed out if necessary.

    If you want that stuff upfront and in writing, why not ask for it? I do that when necessary and I also make sure that my asking and the info are noted by the CSRs I talk to on my account.
    Same thoughts.
    11-26-2016 07:19 PM
  25. vzwuser76's Avatar
    So fair point, the info is on the website.

    Counterpoint, when I asked they were not honest and they omitted what would have kept me from trading and porting.

    BUT seriously at the end of the day stop looking for ways to defend how this was handled. I get it. I don't care about anything other than the fact that if you were there you'd understand I was lied to, period.

    There really is no longer a reason for me to comment or respond as I'm handling it my way which will I'm sure spark more comments.

    I don't need more people telling me the terms and what I could have done. They flat out lied...thankfully financially it's a blip on the radar in a sense. I did pay $750 for an unlocked iPhone 7, so its not the money. I've avoided saying that cause it sounds gaudy. I like tech. I've had 26 smartphones going back to the original BlackBerry. I don't like contracts.

    Resolution:
    Pay: $350 ETF and Pay $650 phone price.
    That's $1000 and lost iPhone
    Still cheaper than the $2500+ in service Verizon would get from me over the next 2 years. I'd rather THEM NOT get the next 2 years of my business.

    Port back to AT&T with the unlocked Pixel
    Yes, I'll lose the iPhone and $1000, but I refuse to continue doing business with Verizon. If I stayed that bill would probably annoy me every month.

    So yes I'm crazy. I basically just will have paid $1000 plus an iPhone 7 for a Pixel. I easily could have paid Google $650 for the Pixel and sold the iPhone myself like my original plan until I was 100% lied to...again don't show me the terms or give me a buyer beware line...I was told it was a wash.

    Thanks everyone for your thoughts...I sincerely appreciate them, but I'm out of this thread unless someone wants to discuss a similar situation and they handled it. My situation is over in my mind.
    Well considering there are a few things you didn't know about that could've been discovered with a little time and effort that would've helped, maybe all of the blame isn't on them.

    As far as handling Verizon's employee conduct, escalate the issue to either a CS supervisor or the Retention Department, as they have more authority to deal with issues of this kind. If you don't trust anyone at Verizon to handle it, then take it either to the Better Business Bureau or to your local states attorney or to your state's attorney general. They are there to protect consumers from business fraud.

    No need to be bitchy about this. Not everyone is going to tell you what you want to hear, that's reality. Take what you can use and discard what you don't. I've dealt with my share of Verizon employees, and generally I find I usually know more about their business than they do. There are crappy one and good ones, as there are in any company. Just recently I called about this offer 10 different times over the course of 3 days, because when dealing with Verizon, if you get a majority of people relaying the same info, it's probably correct. But the blame isn't always at the CSRs feet either. One of the last calls I made the CSR was pretty I'll informed about the promo, and I said as much. I went on to say that with the promo going live the next day, they should really be more informed about it, especially since the first day it's in effect there wouldn't be any employees to field calls on it. She informed me that the CSRs were formally briefed on the promo for the first time that morning. Now that doesn't give them the excuse to lie to you, but the problem is many times people become just as irrate if you tell the truth that you don't know the answer for certain. And the fact that Verizon seems to have no issue with sending their employees out with piecemeal knowledge speaks more about management than the keyless themselves.

    My advice would be to pursue one of the avenues I laid out either through Verizon or otherwise, or both.
    11-26-2016 08:44 PM
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