03-11-2014 05:34 PM
81 1234
tools
  1. iN8ter's Avatar
    Snapdragon 800 is still a very capable CPU, the 801 doesn't offer much over it since the new memory isn't available anyway I think one thing people should understand is they can't literally have everything. HTC may have decided to use the S800 to save some money, and focus on the build quality they're known for bringing. Sure the Galaxy S5 has a better CPU, but when most consumers, and developers didn't even make use of the full power of the S800 than there is simply no need to use a more powerful and more expensive chip.
    Personally even if these specs are true (They still aren't confirmed) I think they sound great. I especially like how HTC added an SD Card slot, and yet is still offering 32GB Storage, which is compared to Samsung's 16GB that is already halved by their bloatware.
    Hardly halved by bloatware in the 5, and a 32 gig variant will be available.
    And an SoC is more than a cpu and gpu. This has been stated several times in this thread.

    You can have all that on the other announced devices apparently, or at least more. That's what some people's beef is.

    Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 using Tapatalk
    03-06-2014 10:34 PM
  2. Zacharyw70's Avatar
    Hardly halved by bloatware in the 5, and a 32 gig variant will be available.
    And an SoC is more than a cpu and gpu. This has been stated several times in this thread.

    You can have all that on the other announced devices apparently, or at least more. That's what some people's beef is.

    Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 using Tapatalk
    According to an article I read nearly 8GB of storage is used up by their bloated OS and apps.
    What other announced device has top of the line specs and amazing build quality? The only thing I can think of that Might qualify is the Xperia Z2, but I can't exactly say if an all glass phone is defined as amazing.
    03-06-2014 10:59 PM
  3. iN8ter's Avatar
    According to an article I read nearly 8GB of storage is used up by their bloated OS and apps.
    What other announced device has top of the line specs and amazing build quality? The only thing I can think of that Might qualify is the Xperia Z2, but I can't exactly say if an all glass phone is defined as amazing.
    Article forgot to account for all the demo software on the unit.

    Useless article 😬

    5MP cameras and a S800 isn't top of the line, I'd say.

    Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 using Tapatalk
    03-06-2014 11:00 PM
  4. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    PPIs in the 440 range I'm not sure it even worth mentioning that as a spec at this point. You can have the worst PenTile display and it will still be basically unnoticeable by anyone with normal vision at those PPI levels. Outdoor Visibility, yes the One was better. Samsung's Panel on the S5 is an improvement from the S4. The Note 3's panel was an improvement from the S4, even.

    Samsung's Camera is also massively improved, and the GS4/Note 3 camera was superior to the One in almost every ways except bringing in light. Even in low light, you could usually get more detail out of a GS4/Note 3 or iPhone 5S picture than the One if you use Night Mode or used a decent editing app to adjust the lighting. The M8's cameras are still 5MP, which means it will retain some key disadvantages it has compared to higher MP cameras (like being borderline useless for shooting far-off targets and cropping - that much can be said).

    Like I said before, the 801 is not "slightly better" than the 800 in some areas. It's clearly, demonstrably better in some areas.

    Why are people making definitive statements about things they clearly know nothing about.

    The CPU cores and GPU cores are more efficient (better performance at same clock speed of an S800).
    The ISP got a 45% boost in performance.
    Yes, it supports bigger SD Cards and Faster Storage Types.

    Probably got some improvements in power management as well.

    To the people talking about the Sony Z2. Sony has always been pretty bad for battery life in my experience. The Video Playing times Sony Stated for the Z2 are average at best, and well below what the G2, Note 3, and phones like the iPhone 5S are capable of. That phone has the same battery Size as the Note, yet that is all they can rate it at (6 hours of HD Video Playback), seriously? I don't like to depend on performance/UX killing power saving modes to get decent Screen On Time.

    Also, I find Sony's camera performance to be rather... sporatic, though I do think they are quite bold and innovative with some of their camera software improvements (first OEM to introduce "Intelligent Auto" in a smartphone Camera Software, IIRC, though it killed batteries :-P ). They make great sensors, yet they never seem to put them to use as well as the other OEMs they sell them to. That has always struck me as ironic. I don't like Sony's UI Overlay or design language, either. I tend to use my phones "out of the box/stock" and don't MOD/Root/whatever them, so that is a big factor for me.
    Why are people making definitive statements about things they clearly know nothing about.

    ^^^^ Why are you talking about this device like it's already been announced and we know the specs that have leaked are legit?

    I'm not sure anybody even knew the S801 existed before the S5 was announced. If they did, nobody was talking. Everybody just expected the S805 or S800.

    The product brief for the 801 was published on Feb 21st of this year on Qualcomm's site. Just saying.

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
    03-07-2014 03:41 AM
  5. iN8ter's Avatar

    The product brief for the 801 was published on Feb 21st of this year on Qualcomm's site. Just saying.

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
    Multiple oems are using the SoC so i think it's safe to say they knew about it way ahead of some brief being published for consumers to eyeball, an they usually do.

    Just saying.

    Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 using Tapatalk
    03-07-2014 07:29 AM
  6. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    Multiple oems are using the SoC so i think it's safe to say they knew about it way ahead of some brief being published for consumers to eyeball, an they usually do.

    Just saying.

    Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 using Tapatalk
    That's exactly my point, yet you're taking this leak like it's 100% accurate.

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
    coronaboy10 likes this.
    03-07-2014 09:10 AM
  7. HOLLYWOODANT215's Avatar
    According to an article I read nearly 8GB of storage is used up by their bloated OS and apps.
    What other announced device has top of the line specs and amazing build quality? The only thing I can think of that Might qualify is the Xperia Z2, but I can't exactly say if an all glass phone is defined as amazing.
    S5 comes with 10.5 gigs of storage..which is around the average I guess

    Posted via Android Central App
    03-08-2014 01:13 AM
  8. Jerry Hildenbrand's Avatar
    I think those would be the people who may already have one in hand. You know, like the people who will post 5 articles within minutes of the announcement event concluding, because they've had a review unit for weeks and have their articles written and ready to publish. Like people from certain reputable websites and tech blogs. You know those folks, right? Like the ones who knew 4.4 was going to be KitKat and not Key Lime Pie. You know those people, Jerry. You know you do. And I know that you know that I know who you think I am referring to.

    If there was only a way for one of those esteemed individuals to give us a teenie tiny bit of information. Just a little morsel. Alas, I don't think there is a place where that could happen. I can't think of a place on the internet, let alone this site, where people can post things about various topics and engage in conversation. Like a forum or something. That would be sweet. You guys should think about adding that to your site.
    I'll be honest. Right now, I don't know much more than you do. A few things I can't share (naturally), but one thing (I think a very telling and important thing) that I can:

    The folks behind the M8 are excited. More excited than they have been with any other phone they have released.

    I don't think it's specs or any one thing that has them excited, I get the feeling that it's the overall package, and the M8 has come together in a way that makes the serious phone nerds involved super-anxious to share it with the world. That's not to say these guys weren't excited with the M7, or even the mini and mega, but this feels different.

    2014 is going to be a very tough year for smartphone junkies. I think to decide between the S5, the M8, the Xperia S2 and whatever Google and Motorola come with later in the year is going to be damn near impossible. I also expect something amazeballs from LG late in the year that will blow them all away. These companies have always had the tech at their disposal, and now they've been building Android phones long enough to know how to make them great, and how to deliver a package that is better than it's parts.

    As for the M8 itself, know that a lot of the rumors are just rumors, and the ones that are close to the truth aren't going to get the coverage from folks that aren't allowed to talk about things. This will get worse in the next few weeks as we ramp up to the unveiling.
    03-08-2014 05:58 PM
  9. angry english's Avatar
    I know one thing, on looks alone the M8 is certainly one of the best looking phones I've seen, the body looks sharp

    Posted via Android Central App
    03-08-2014 06:23 PM
  10. BigDinCA's Avatar
    A few things I can't share (naturally), but one thing (I think a very telling and important thing) that I can:

    The folks behind the M8 are excited. More excited than they have been with any other phone they have released...

    I also expect something amazeballs from LG late in the year that will blow them all away....
    Two things: thanks for the honesty. I expect this to be similar to every major launch - Phil and Alex, et al, covering the event and then BAM! Jerry posts all of the details within seconds. Secondly, I'm adding "amazeballs" to my custom dictionary.
    Kevin OQuinn likes this.
    03-09-2014 12:46 PM
  11. iN8ter's Avatar
    I know one thing, on looks alone the M8 is certainly one of the best looking phones I've seen, the body looks sharp

    Posted via Android Central App
    No one has ever disputed that. The HTC One looks better than anything out there barring maybe the White/Silver iPhone 5/5S.

    The issue wasn't the Looks, Build Quality (barring dust issues), or build materials.

    The issue was the Low MP Camera which is a showstopper to some people, the buttons, and the software in some areas. Oh, and the small battery.

    Some people had issues with the lack of MicroSD, but I didn't care about that because the phone came with 32GB internal storage.

    I am not enthusiastic about them using a low MP camera when Apple and Nokia has shown you can get decent low light performance and even great Burst Speed shots, etc. from a higher MP camera that doesn't render cropping near-worthless.

    If the S5's camera is even a marginal improvement over the S4/Note 3 then it's a "safe bet" given Samsung's long support for their flagships and more flexible designs (removeable battery, SD Card, different Storage SKUs).

    580 Pounds (Assuming the price in thread title is local currency) is 970 USD so I hope that is a rumor...
    03-09-2014 05:09 PM
  12. LindtChocolate's Avatar
    Technically we still aren't 100% on the MP of the phone. It could be 5, 8, hell even 13.
    03-09-2014 06:12 PM
  13. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    No one has ever disputed that. The HTC One looks better than anything out there barring maybe the White/Silver iPhone 5/5S.

    The issue wasn't the Looks, Build Quality (barring dust issues), or build materials.

    The issue was the Low MP Camera which is a showstopper to some people, the buttons, and the software in some areas. Oh, and the small battery.

    Some people had issues with the lack of MicroSD, but I didn't care about that because the phone came with 32GB internal storage.

    I am not enthusiastic about them using a low MP camera when Apple and Nokia has shown you can get decent low light performance and even great Burst Speed shots, etc. from a higher MP camera that doesn't render cropping near-worthless.

    If the S5's camera is even a marginal improvement over the S4/Note 3 then it's a "safe bet" given Samsung's long support for their flagships and more flexible designs (removeable battery, SD Card, different Storage SKUs).

    580 Pounds (Assuming the price in thread title is local currency) is 970 USD so I hope that is a rumor...
    Pricing between the UK and US is never equivalent like that.

    The issue with the camera wasn't the MP count, it was the fact that many people were having hardware issues (the purple pics being the big one). The buttons were a nit pick that people got over after a day with the device (Samsung isn't the greatest with buttons either). The battery life was always great for me. I don't get caught up in mAh ratings.

    I've seen you mention cropping the pics a few times. Do you actually do that? I don't, and I don't know anybody else that does. If you do, and being able to do that effectively is important then cool, but I don't think a majority of people care about cropping a pic they take with their phone. 99% of people I know that take pics with their smartphone do it just to post on social networks. No editing, zooming, or cropping is being done, outside of Instagram filters. The One was good for that. I never once had someway say "man, that pic has terrible dynamic range". That's just not how people view pics these I think.

    I also think that sometimes (and I'm a victim of this myself) we read reviews, what they say, and go into a device with those as a sort of expectation.
    03-09-2014 06:59 PM
  14. iN8ter's Avatar
    Pricing between the UK and US is never equivalent like that.

    The issue with the camera wasn't the MP count, it was the fact that many people were having hardware issues (the purple pics being the big one). The buttons were a nit pick that people got over after a day with the device (Samsung isn't the greatest with buttons either). The battery life was always great for me. I don't get caught up in mAh ratings.

    I've seen you mention cropping the pics a few times. Do you actually do that? I don't, and I don't know anybody else that does. If you do, and being able to do that effectively is important then cool, but I don't think a majority of people care about cropping a pic they take with their phone. 99% of people I know that take pics with their smartphone do it just to post on social networks. No editing, zooming, or cropping is being done, outside of Instagram filters. The One was good for that. I never once had someway say "man, that pic has terrible dynamic range". That's just not how people view pics these I think.

    I also think that sometimes (and I'm a victim of this myself) we read reviews, what they say, and go into a device with those as a sort of expectation.
    Yes. I do. When I'm standing on a monument in Yorktown, VA I need to crop to get up close and I still want a detailed far away image as well. Sometimes I want to use part of a larger image as a profile image. A lot of times I take action shot images and want to crop out a specific part of the shot to show someone else.

    Cropping is important for a multitude of use cases.

    The MP and pixel sizes are the issue. the images aren't that detailed when viewed 1:1 and when you crop they look like ish compared to higher MP cameras. Most reviews displayed this issue with the One Camera. Going from 4 to 5 MP is not going to help much there if the pixel sizes stay similar.

    Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 using Tapatalk
    03-09-2014 07:04 PM
  15. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    Yes. I do. When I'm standing on a monument in Yorktown, VA I need to crop to get up close and I still want a detailed far away image as well. Sometimes I want to use part of a larger image as a profile image. A lot of times I take action shot images and want to crop out a specific part of the shot to show someone else.

    Cropping is important for a multitude of use cases.

    The MP and pixel sizes are the issue. the images aren't that detailed when viewed 1:1 and when you crop they look like ish compared to higher MP cameras. Most reviews displayed this issue with the One Camera. Going from 4 to 5 MP is not going to help much there if the pixel sizes stay similar.

    Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 using Tapatalk
    I'm sorry if I implied that cropping wasn't important in a lot of cases. I know that it is, I just don't see a lot of people actually doing it, with the exception of profile pics for social networks.

    Of course a 13MP sensor will be capable of more detail than a 4-5MP sensor, but not by as much as you think. As they point out, much of what we view has more to do with the ISP and post-processing that happens after the sensor captures the image. I'm not printing poster or billboard sized copies of the pics I take, and I see no issue with detail on the pics the One takes at a 1:1 zoom level. The reason is kind of simple, but harder to explain. Here, this does a much better job explaining that I could:

    The Megapixel Myth It's an older article, but is still accurate.

    An excerpt:

    Image Resolution
    Resolution is how many pixels you have counted horizontally or vertically when used to describe a stored image. Digital cameras today have between 2,048 and 4,500 pixels horizontally. 3 MP cameras have 2,048 pixels horizontally and 14 MP cameras have 4,500 pixels. They have fewer pixels vertically since the images aren't as tall as they are wide.
    That's not much of a difference, is it? That's the whole point of this article. I'll explain that a little further down.

    Pixel Count, expressed as Megapixels
    Pixel Count, expressed as Megapixels, is simply multiplying the number of horizontal pixels by the number of vertical pixels. It's exactly like calculating area. A 3 MP camera has 2,048 (horizontal) x 1,536 (vertical) pixels, or 3,145,728 pixels. We call this simply 3 MP.

    Small differences in pixel count, between say 5 MP and 8MP, are unimportant because pixel counts are a square function. It's exactly like calculating area or square footage. It only takes a 40% increase in linear dimensions to double the pixel count! Doubling pixel count only increases the real, linear resolution by 40%, which is pretty much invisible.
    03-09-2014 07:24 PM
  16. iN8ter's Avatar
    I'm sorry if I implied that cropping wasn't important in a lot of cases. I know that it is, I just don't see a lot of people actually doing it, with the exception of profile pics for social networks.

    Of course a 13MP sensor will be capable of more detail than a 4-5MP sensor, but not by as much as you think. As they point out, much of what we view has more to do with the ISP and post-processing that happens after the sensor captures the image. I'm not printing poster or billboard sized copies of the pics I take, and I see no issue with detail on the pics the One takes at a 1:1 zoom level. The reason is kind of simple, but harder to explain. Here, this does a much better job explaining that I could:

    The Megapixel Myth It's an older article, but is still accurate.

    An excerpt:

    Image Resolution
    Resolution is how many pixels you have counted horizontally or vertically when used to describe a stored image. Digital cameras today have between 2,048 and 4,500 pixels horizontally. 3 MP cameras have 2,048 pixels horizontally and 14 MP cameras have 4,500 pixels. They have fewer pixels vertically since the images aren't as tall as they are wide.
    That's not much of a difference, is it? That's the whole point of this article. I'll explain that a little further down.

    Pixel Count, expressed as Megapixels
    Pixel Count, expressed as Megapixels, is simply multiplying the number of horizontal pixels by the number of vertical pixels. It's exactly like calculating area. A 3 MP camera has 2,048 (horizontal) x 1,536 (vertical) pixels, or 3,145,728 pixels. We call this simply 3 MP.

    Small differences in pixel count, between say 5 MP and 8MP, are unimportant because pixel counts are a square function. It's exactly like calculating area or square footage. It only takes a 40% increase in linear dimensions to double the pixel count! Doubling pixel count only increases the real, linear resolution by 40%, which is pretty much invisible.
    The pixel sizes on the One exacerbate the issue. Each pixel is huge which makes the 1:1 crop look noticeably bad by comparison.

    Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 using Tapatalk
    03-09-2014 07:27 PM
  17. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    The pixel sizes on the One exacerbate the issue. Each pixel is huge which makes the 1:1 crop look noticeably bad by comparison.

    Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 using Tapatalk
    Well that's not how that works at all, actually. You're still talking about 2,000 lines of resolution. That means almost exact 1:1 viewing on a 1080p display when viewing them in landscape mode.

    If the image quality suffers it's not because of the size of the pixels, it's because HTC needs to tweak the algorithms to do less post processing, which was not really disputed. There are certain scenarios where you can tell they're trying to sharpen the image too much. They didn't need to, though, and I think they only did it to appease the "sharpness" junkies. The aggressive post processing definitely hurts the ability to crop also.

    Either way, the new One has a totally different setup with the two cameras. It's hard to really judge it based on last years 4mp sensor. How HTC implements the software and processing algorithms will make or break it I think.
    03-09-2014 07:41 PM
  18. iN8ter's Avatar
    Well that's not how that works at all, actually. You're still talking about 2,000 lines of resolution. That means almost exact 1:1 viewing on a 1080p display when viewing them in landscape mode.

    If the image quality suffers it's not because of the size of the pixels, it's because HTC needs to tweak the algorithms to do less post processing, which was not really disputed. There are certain scenarios where you can tell they're trying to sharpen the image too much. They didn't need to, though, and I think they only did it to appease the "sharpness" junkies. The aggressive post processing definitely hurts the ability to crop also.

    Either way, the new One has a totally different setup with the two cameras. It's hard to really judge it based on last years 4mp sensor. How HTC implements the software and processing algorithms will make or break it I think.
    I look at this on a large monitor. Not on a phone screen.

    Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 using Tapatalk
    03-09-2014 07:51 PM
  19. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    I look at this on a large monitor. Not on a phone screen.

    Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 using Tapatalk
    What resolution is the monitor? The majority of monitors (by a large margin actually) are also 1080p.

    EDIT: If you include laptops it's 1080p and 768p as the two most popular.
    03-09-2014 07:53 PM
  20. iN8ter's Avatar
    What resolution is the monitor? The majority of monitors (by a large margin actually) are also 1080p.

    EDIT: If you include laptops it's 1080p and 768p as the two most popular.
    1080p desktop, 768p laptop. Friend has a Retina MacBook and I've looked at them there as well, as he takes a lot of images and video during for me on his S4. We use a shared OneDrive folder for that stuff.

    The huge pixels do affect the detail of the image, especially when coupled with the resolution. At a low resolution it's harder to take a bigger crop and still resize the image to force in a bit more detail or mask noise without completely destroying the image.

    HTC Camera issues with pink tint are quite historical at this point. Everything back to the HD2 and HD7 had those issues. Also had that issue with the HTC Vivid (Raider on AT&T) I owned for a while (but only in low light).

    I don't do much low light photography with my phone so that isn't much of a selling point for me. I do need the detail, though, since I can still lighten the picture and keep it usable with software.

    HTC says that they designed the camera for the images being viewed on screen and on social networks. Yes, they look much better when viewed on a phone screen than when they are viewed on a normal computer monitor, television, or something else bigger.

    Maybe my use case is "niche", but as an athelete I see coaches and other atheletes use these phones in this way. Almost all of them opt for Samsung Android devices and iPhones (and a metric ton of iPad Minis, though almost exclusively for recording and reviewing Video). There are some software features that are useful as well, like the video player allowing: Zoom, Variable Scrubbing, Variable Playback Speed, Frame Stepping, and Frame Capturing. (The Note Stylus is baller for use in Video Analysis apps that let you draw on the video and record Analysis to share, as well, and you can do the same with images.)
    03-09-2014 08:33 PM
  21. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    1080p desktop, 768p laptop. Friend has a Retina MacBook and I've looked at them there as well, as he takes a lot of images and video during for me on his S4. We use a shared OneDrive folder for that stuff.

    The huge pixels do affect the detail of the image, especially when coupled with the resolution.

    Higher resolution cameras you can crob bigger and then resize to lessen the noise while still retaining better detail than what I've seen from the one.

    HTC Camera issues with pink tint are quite historical at this point. Everything back to the HD2 and HD7 had those issues. Also had that issue with the HTC Vivid (Raider on AT&T) I owned for a while (but only in low light).

    I don't do much low light photography with my phone so that isn't much of a selling point for me. I do need the detail, though, since I can still lighten the picture and keep it usable with software.

    HTC says that they designed the camera for the images being viewed on screen and on social networks. Yes, they look much better when viewed on a phone screen than when they are viewed on a normal computer monitor, television, or something else bigger.
    Can you back that up with some science please? I'm either failing to understand how or it's just not true.

    I'm well aware of the HTC camera issues with pink and purple, but that's also not what we were discussing. You also seem to be a niche user that will actually crop and post process camera phones pics with photoshop or other similar software. Most people just don't do that. They take a picture and post it. If we're being honest, they'll usually take it more than once if they need to in order to get an acceptable shot. I don't post process my camera phone pics unless it's something like Perfectly Clear, and that's a rare occasion, but I'm not one that will take more than one pic typically to get a good image. It needs to be able to consistently deliver on the first try for me.
    03-09-2014 08:50 PM
  22. iN8ter's Avatar
    Can you back that up with some science please? I'm either failing to understand how or it's just not true.

    I'm well aware of the HTC camera issues with pink and purple, but that's also not what we were discussing. You also seem to be a niche user that will actually crop and post process camera phones pics with photoshop or other similar software. Most people just don't do that. They take a picture and post it. If we're being honest, they'll usually take it more than once if they need to in order to get an acceptable shot. I don't post process my camera phone pics unless it's something like Perfectly Clear, and that's a rare occasion, but I'm not one that will take more than one pic typically to get a good image. It needs to be able to consistently deliver on the first try for me.
    What science is needed? If you look at the picture from a One at 1:1 crop and then look at the picture from an S4 at 1:1 crop you can see the pixels are bigger and the image loses detail. The PPI of the image is not the same. Yes, the software is part of the issue. HTC has tended to always be quite aggressive in its compression and sharpening in post-processing.

    It's like a TV with 1080p and a phone with 1080p. Yes, it's 1080p resolution, but the individual pixels on the screen are bigger. If you get up close to the television you can see the pixels and the image doesn't look as good/sharp as a phone when you put your face up to the screen (at current PPI you can't even discern the pixels on a smartphone screen). That's how the images on the One look compared to the S4 to me - the One has bigger pixels in the sensor than the S4/Note 3. It shows up in the image quality, especially when you crop. It looks like the sharpness of the picture is just not as good as the higher resolution cameras. When you crop into the image, you can see the difference.

    I think the term niche is overused. A lot of people I know run their photos through Photoshop/Photoshop Elements/iPhoto. I simply choose to use, in some cases, more expensive/better software to accomplish that task while they'll use what comes on their PC or from their OEM/Operating System vendor (Windows Photo Gallery, Picasa, iPhoto, etc.). If they wanted something better, they could easily download and learn how to use GIMP :-P

    There are some image tests that show the 1:1 crop of both cameras and you can see how they look compared to each other. Almost all reviews state the One images are at a loss for sharpness vs. the S4 and while the images are brighter in low light, detail is quite muddled there as well which is why I prefer to just use the Samsung phones and fix the low light images in Photoshop on my PC :-)

    I take multiple images as well. A better image can be made better than a worse image can be made. Just cause I took one that looks somewhat better than the other doesn't mean I shouldn't try to make it better. I share a lot of my images via OneDrive, so they can be viewed in Full Resolution. Flickr and other sites tell me that I am not as niche as you think I am ;-) I barely share on Social Networks. If that was my main form of image sharing, I would care much less about image quality.

    If the L1020 had the apps I needed I'd have jumped on it in a heartbeat, even as a secondary device (off-contract purchase and tethered to my daily driver) just for the camera, but it doesn't. Nokia also doesn't put much work into their cameras' video capabilities.

    I took a ton of One Images with the test units in the carrier stores before I upgraded. Even compared to my Galaxy S3, they were lackluster.
    03-09-2014 09:05 PM
  23. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    What science is needed? If you look at the picture from a One at 1:1 crop and then look at the picture from an S4 at 1:1 crop you can see the pixels are bigger and the image loses detail. The PPI of the image is not the same. Yes, the software is part of the issue. HTC has tended to always be quite aggressive in its compression and sharpening in post-processing.

    It's like a TV with 1080p and a phone with 1080p. Yes, it's 1080p resolution, but the individual pixels on the screen are bigger. If you get up close to the television you can see the pixels and the image doesn't look as good/sharp as a phone when you put your face up to the screen (at current PPI you can't even discern the pixels on a smartphone screen). That's how the images on the One look compared to the S4 to me - the One has bigger pixels in the sensor than the S4/Note 3. It shows up in the image quality, especially when you crop. It looks like the sharpness of the picture is just not as good as the higher resolution cameras. When you crop into the image, you can see the difference.

    I think the term niche is overused. A lot of people I know run their photos through Photoshop/Photoshop Elements/iPhoto. I simply choose to use, in some cases, more expensive/better software to accomplish that task while they'll use what comes on their PC or from their OEM/Operating System vendor (Windows Photo Gallery, Picasa, iPhoto, etc.). If they wanted something better, they could easily download and learn how to use GIMP :-P

    There are some image tests that show the 1:1 crop of both cameras and you can see how they look compared to each other. Almost all reviews state the One images are at a loss for sharpness vs. the S4 and while the images are brighter in low light, detail is quite muddled there as well which is why I prefer to just use the Samsung phones and fix the low light images in Photoshop on my PC :-)

    I take multiple images as well. A better image can be made better than a worse image can be made. Just cause I took one that looks somewhat better than the other doesn't mean I shouldn't try to make it better. I share a lot of my images via OneDrive, so they can be viewed in Full Resolution. Flickr and other sites tell me that I am not as niche as you think I am ;-)
    Sounds like we're not on the same page. I mean, tell me how having a larger physical pixel, separate of anything else, all by itself, makes the picture automatically worse than a smaller physical pixel. In other words, a 4mp sensor with larger pixels will take better pics than a 4mp with smaller pixels. That's what I'm saying.

    I get what you're saying about cropping. Of course you can crop and zoom better when there are more lines of resolution. But that's not what I asked about. We're talking about the merits of a larger pixel all by itself.

    Also, don't confuse the physical size of the pixel in the camera itself for a displayed pixel on a device. Once the image is displayed, the pixel itself is the same size. 1 pixel = 1 pixel. There are just more of those pixels out of a sensor with a higher MP count. For example, if you were to line up 1000 pixels from the One and a 1000 pixels from the S4 the pixels from the One would capture far more light because of the physical size, but when displayed on a monitor they would be the same size.
    03-09-2014 09:18 PM
  24. iN8ter's Avatar
    Sounds like we're not on the same page. I mean, tell me how having a larger physical pixel, separate of anything else, all by itself, makes the picture automatically worse than a smaller physical pixel. In other words, a 4mp sensor with larger pixels will take better pics than a 4mp with smaller pixels. That's what I'm saying.

    I get what you're saying about cropping. Of course you can crop and zoom better when there are more lines of resolution. But that's not what I asked about. We're talking about the merits of a larger pixel all by itself.

    Also, don't confuse the physical size of the pixel in the camera itself for a displayed pixel on a device. Once the image is displayed, the pixel itself is the same size. 1 pixel = 1 pixel. There are just more of those pixels out of a sensor with a higher MP count. For example, if you were to line up 1000 pixels from the One and a 1000 pixels from the S4 the pixels from the One would capture far more light because of the physical size, but when displayed on a monitor they would be the same size.
    We're not comparing same resolution images, so that is a misleading comparison. The One is packing the same whole image into less pixels and the pixels are bigger. That's why it affect the image quality. It results in a less detailed image when viewed as full size, even of they look fine zoomed out on a smartphone screen.

    No. You are not on the same page. You are not even comparing apples to apples.

    Think about it that way and it should make more sense to you.

    Edit: I don't intend to sound aggressive that is just my writing style. Just feel the need to throw that disclaimer since I am often misunderstood in that way.

    EDIT 2: The Merits of the larger pixel is to get more light into the sensor, and even in low light the One is less detailed than the iPhone 5S and other cameras, even though the image is brighter. Nokia's Limia 920 had the same issues. HTC had an f2.0 sensor in older 8MP phones so they didn't have to go as low as 4MP. Also keep in mind HTC's cameras are 16:9 Native Resolution which come with its own set of issues (in terms of photography). If you want a 4:3 Portrait type image you're either cropping the 4MP or taking an even lower resolution image, which further exacerbates the issues I mentioned I had with the camera.

    If I want 4MP images that are great, I can downsize the 13MP images from the GN3 (or closest in same Aspect Ratio) and they will look better than the images that come out of the One and mask a majority of the noise in the image in the process. You can do that in batch with cheap or free utilities these days. I'm just saying that unless you're a Facebook image sharer, the cameras on those phones leave a lot to be desired... That's all. Sharing images on sites like Facebook and Instagram, or Twitter will destroy quality no matter how great the image is (though a better source image will almost always result in a better "tampered" image in that case, as well).

    One redeeming quality that HTC had is that they used to do Video best on Android (they were the first OEM with Video + Capture and also the first with 720p Slow Motion Video Capture, both of which are baller for sports). Even with the pink tint issues, it was still worth getting an HTC just for their superior camcorders, but the competition has largely caught up to them (in some cases, eclipse them) in that area. But they used to be, IMO, well ahead of virtually everyone else on Android for video.

    If the M8 comes out being amazing for video, then I will buy one just for that - even if I never take a picture with it.

    Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 using Tapatalk
    03-09-2014 09:19 PM
  25. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    We're not comparing same resolution images, so that is a misleading comparison. The One is packing the same whole image into less pixels and the pixels are bigger. That's why it affect the image quality. It results in a less detailed image when viewed as full size, even of they look fine zoomed out on a smartphone screen.

    No. You are not on the same page. You are not even comparing apples to apples.

    Think about it that way and it should make more sense to you.

    Edit: I don't intend to sound aggressive that is just my writing style. Just feel the need to throw that disclaimer since I am often misunderstood in that way.

    EDIT 2: The Merits of the larger pixel is to get more light into the sensor, and even in low light the One is less detailed than the iPhone 5S and other cameras, even though the image is brighter. Nokia's Limia 920 had the same issues. HTC had an f2.0 sensor in older 8MP phones so they didn't have to go as low as 4MP. Also keep in mind HTC's cameras are 16:9 Native Resolution which come with its own set of issues (in terms of photography). If you want a 4:3 Portrait type image you're either cropping the 4MP or taking an even lower resolution image, which further exacerbates the issues I mentioned I had with the camera.

    Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 using Tapatalk
    You're completely missing what I'm saying about the physical size of the pixel not having an affect on the image quality. You keep referring back to total MP count, which is the sole factor making cropping better. Which I already agreed with.

    What I'm talking about is the actual physical pixel being better in the One than the S4. Physical size limited the resolution of the sensor, and HTC's algorithms screwed up the results sometimes, but the actual pixel is better at capturing light. The major problem HTC needs to fix to "appease" people is the resolution of the resulting image, which for all we know they're doing with this dual camera setup.
    03-09-2014 09:35 PM
81 1234

Similar Threads

  1. Says earphones are plugged in when they're not
    By ejo1722 in forum Samsung Galaxy S3
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 05-15-2019, 10:44 AM
  2. Hate the Galaxy S4 KitKat emojis
    By katersmc in forum Samsung Galaxy S4
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 08-01-2014, 10:48 AM
  3. Wifi never turning off in sleep mode on Nexus 7 (2013)
    By Bednarz in forum Google Nexus 7 Tablet (2013)
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 04-05-2014, 10:26 AM
  4. Verizon Samsung Galaxy S4 May Receive Kit Kat 4.4 in April 2014
    By rizzymo in forum Verizon Samsung Galaxy S4
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 03-11-2014, 12:05 AM
  5. One of my first creations (Flappy Bird Clone)
    By juanmontes in forum Android Apps
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 03-04-2014, 08:09 AM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD