UltraPixels - Still a great idea?

D13H4RD2L1V3

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I wonder if anyone still remembers the HTC UltraPixel gamble.

You know, the main camera on the One M7 + M8 and the front-shooter on the M9. Remember when HTC didn't want to take part in the megapixel race and instead, focused on a 2-micron pixel size for the best possible low-light photos?

Well, with HTC using a 20-megapixel Toshiba T4KA7 sensor on the M9 as the main camera, is the UltraPixel still a good idea?

Me? Sounds crazy but.....yes, I still think it was a great idea, in theory.

20150812_110439.jpg

Let me explain. Phone camera sensors are typically very small, and cramming tons of pixels inside one can have some issues, especially in low-light, where individual pixels are too small to receive sufficient light. This can be mitigated by using a larger sensor, adding OIS and a wider aperture, like on the LG G4. However, HTC didn't want to join the MP race and instead, wanted to attempt to innovate and create a camera sensor that provides good low-light shots but also having pretty decent daylight shots. Hence, why the UltraPixel was born.

A great concept in theory, but why is it frowned upon? 4 megapixels.
HTC chose the 4MP sensor resolution because on the size of the sensor they were using, 4MP gave them pixels the size of 2 microns. Of course, in theory, 4MP would be adequate since it's bigger than what people share online, which is what most people do with their smartphone's photos anyway. However, the execution kinda fell flat as the dynamic range isn't as high as we would hope and due to the sensor's Bayer layout, effective resolution was actually at a paltry 2MP instead of 4MP, which explains the lack of detail in daylight shots, although it's still detailed enough for pictures of cats for your Instagram collection.

20150812_110729.jpg

Okay, so if I think that their execution fell flat on its face, why do I still think it's a great idea? Because when done right, it can produce great results.

The iPhone 6's camera is pretty much the descendant of the UltraPixel. Instead of favoring large pixel counts, it focuses on individual pixel size with 1.5-micron pixels on an 8MP custom Sony Exmor RS sensor. The higher resolution means that daylight shots are more detailed, while having a pixel-size large enough so that low-light shots look decent. If anything, the pictures on Apple's "Shot on iPhone 6" gallery seem to be a pretty good look at the capabilities of its camera.

Simply put, the UltraPixel is a great idea, and if done right, can produce pretty good results. But I think HTC's execution could have been a little bit better, but since the M8's camera wasn't a complete potato, it wasn't a terrible camera. It was actually decent. Though, considering HTC's falling fortunes, my expectations are probably too high.
 
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msm0511

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I wonder if anyone still remembers the HTC UltraPixel gamble.

You know, the main camera on the One M7 + M8 and the front-shooter on the M9. Remember when HTC didn't want to take part in the megapixel race and instead, focused on a 2-micron pixel size for the best possible low-light photos?

Well, with HTC using a 20-megapixel Toshiba T4KA7 sensor on the M9 as the main camera, is the UltraPixel still a good idea?.

Let me preface this by saying I don't know much about photography, but I think they were on the right track with the ultrpixel idea. I agree if they could have stayed with it and learned from their mistakes, increased the megapixel so cropping didn't look so bad, and used more advanced sensors it could've worked to their advantage in the long run. I also really miss the duo camera set up on my M9. Sure alot of what it did was gimmicky, but my favorite bit of the duo camera was focusing after the fact. If I didn't quite get the focus right, I knew I could always get something a little better after the shot was saved. Their was also some cool editing options using the duo set up.

I'm kinda wondering if they had to scrap the ultrapixel because they needed to focus their resources elsewhere. They don't have the money or sheer number of engineers as an Apple or Samsung, so maybe they felt the resources they did have would be better focused elsewhere.
 

D13H4RD2L1V3

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Let me preface this by saying I don't know much about photography, but I think they were on the right track with the ultrpixel idea. I agree if they could have stayed with it and learned from their mistakes, increased the megapixel so cropping didn't look so bad, and used more advanced sensors it could've worked to their advantage in the long run. I also really miss the duo camera set up on my M9. Sure alot of what it did was gimmicky, but my favorite bit of the duo camera was focusing after the fact. If I didn't quite get the focus right, I knew I could always get something a little better after the shot was saved. Their was also some cool editing options using the duo set up.

I'm kinda wondering if they had to scrap the ultrapixel because they needed to focus their resources elsewhere. They don't have the money or sheer number of engineers as an Apple or Samsung, so maybe they felt the resources they did have would be better focused elsewhere.

I honestly think that they had some great ideas.

But I'm seriously thinking that the execution wasn't brilliant due to their falling fortunes.

It's really hard to make an idea work really well when you're not making money.
 

msm0511

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I honestly think that they had some great ideas.

But I'm seriously thinking that the execution wasn't brilliant due to their falling fortunes.

It's really hard to make an idea work really well when you're not making money.

To be honest, HTC is the only Android OEM that makes devices I like so I'm really hoping they can figure things out. I wish somebody would come along and invest some serious cash into HTC like Bill Gates did with Apple when they were in so much trouble, but that's not gonna happen. I don't think anybody has as much faith in Cher Wang as Gates had with Jobs, and companies are much more cut throat than they were then.
 

D13H4RD2L1V3

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To be honest, HTC is the only Android OEM that makes devices I like so I'm really hoping they can figure things out. I wish somebody would come along and invest some serious cash into HTC like Bill Gates did with Apple when they were in so much trouble, but that's not gonna happen. I don't think anybody has as much faith in Cher Wang as Gates had with Jobs, and companies are much more cut throat than they were then.

Hoping for the same as well
 

Lecrae116

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I wonder if anyone still remembers the HTC UltraPixel gamble.

You know, the main camera on the One M7 + M8 and the front-shooter on the M9. Remember when HTC didn't want to take part in the megapixel race and instead, focused on a 2-micron pixel size for the best possible low-light photos?

Well, with HTC using a 20-megapixel Toshiba T4KA7 sensor on the M9 as the main camera, is the UltraPixel still a good idea?

Me? Sounds crazy but.....yes, I still think it was a great idea, in theory.

View attachment 190871

Let me explain. Phone camera sensors are typically very small, and cramming tons of pixels inside one can have some issues, especially in low-light, where individual pixels are too small to receive sufficient light. This can be mitigated by using a larger sensor, adding OIS and a wider aperture, like on the LG G4. However, HTC didn't want to join the MP race and instead, wanted to attempt to innovate and create a camera sensor that provides good low-light shots but also having pretty decent daylight shots. Hence, why the UltraPixel was born.

A great concept in theory, but why is it frowned upon? 4 megapixels.
HTC chose the 4MP sensor resolution because on the size of the sensor they were using, 4MP gave them pixels the size of 2 microns. Of course, in theory, 4MP would be adequate since it's bigger than what people share online, which is what most people do with their smartphone's photos anyway. However, the execution kinda fell flat as the dynamic range isn't as high as we would hope and due to the sensor's Bayer layout, effective resolution was actually at a paltry 2MP instead of 4MP, which explains the lack of detail in daylight shots, although it's still detailed enough for pictures of cats for your Instagram collection.

View attachment 190872

Okay, so if I think that their execution fell flat on its face, why do I still think it's a great idea? Because when done right, it can produce great results.

The iPhone 6's camera is pretty much the descendant of the UltraPixel. Instead of favoring large pixel counts, it focuses on individual pixel size with 1.5-micron pixels on an 8MP custom Sony Exmor RS sensor. The higher resolution means that daylight shots are more detailed, while having a pixel-size large enough so that low-light shots look decent. If anything, the pictures on Apple's "Shot on iPhone 6" gallery seem to be a pretty good look at the capabilities of its camera.

Simply put, the UltraPixel is a great idea, and if done right, can produce pretty good results. But I think HTC's execution could have been a little bit better, but since the M8's camera wasn't a complete potato, it wasn't a terrible camera. It was actually decent. Though, considering HTC's falling fortunes, my expectations are probably too high.
Can you tell me what I can do to make my m7's camera produce good results? My camera is suffering from the purple tint
 

D13H4RD2L1V3

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Can you tell me what I can do to make my m7's camera produce good results? My camera is suffering from the purple tint

I'm afraid there's not much you can do. It's a hardware defect.

I can only say take photos in broad daylight and use the flash, but that's all I know.
 

Ry

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I think it's a great idea for the front facing camera.

Posted via Android Central App (Moto X)
 

holz75

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I'm kinda wondering if they had to scrap the ultrapixel because they needed to focus their resources elsewhere. They don't have the money or sheer number of engineers as an Apple or Samsung, so maybe they felt the resources they did have would be better focused elsewhere.

I think the bigger issue is the normal consumer sees 20 MP and 4 UP, and then immediately thinks 20 MP is better no matter if it is or not.
 

aldo82

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They should have stuck with the ultra pixel concept but increased to 8mp. The iPhone has managed fine with 8mp and everyone still buys it. The pixels are large enough to capture good light, add in a fast lens and optical stabilisation and they'd have evolved into a great camera.

Completely backing out of their original philosophy and moving to the ultra high pixel count was a big mistake in my opinion. I still have an m8 and the low light photos I've taken have been by far the best I've seen from a smartphone camera

Posted via the Android Central App
 

Runell A

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I too, am finding myself reverting back to my M8. My daytime shots were good, and my low light/night time shots were awesome compared to my M9. If they stayed with the ultra pixel tech/duo camera, and just increased the pixel count for the M9, I'm sure people would've been happy.

Posted via the Android Central App
 

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