Verizon Band 4 Update

[sangs]

That is why I held off buying. Knew they would do something like this.

Was my first HTC phone. If this is how they normally play the game, it'll be my last.

 

[Hyperspace13]

That is why I held off buying. Knew they would do something like this.

I wish I would have been wise enough to hold off. I had HTC 7-10 so I didn't think there would be any problems.

 

[BigDinCA]

Was my first HTC phone. If this is how they normally play the game, it'll be my last.

This isn't how HTC plays the game. It's how Verizon plays the game. The phone has every band needed to work on Verizon, including CDMA bands. It has support for VoLTE, WiFi calling and mobile hotspot/tethering. Verizon has decided to cripple access to its network. They don't make money on a phone if you don't buy through them. Would they prefer to make money? Sure. "So buy a XXXX from us instead of that HTC U11. The xxxx works great on our network." A GSM network is obligated to accept any GSM device that can connect to it, but a CDMA network is not. And just because LTE is a GSM technology doesn't mean Verizon is a GSM network. They aren't, and as such are not bound buy those requirements. Lots of people have the phone on Verizon and have no real issues, lots of people are having issues. If it's time to assign blame, the bulk of it sits w/ Verizon from where I'm sitting.

 

[Hyperspace13]

This isn't how HTC plays the game. It's how Verizon plays the game. The phone has every band needed to work on Verizon, including CDMA bands. It has support for VoLTE, WiFi calling and mobile hotspot/tethering. Verizon has decided to cripple access to its network. They don't make money on a phone if you don't buy through them. Would they prefer to make money? Sure. "So buy a XXXX from us instead of that HTC U11. The xxxx works great on our network." A GSM network is obligated to accept any GSM device that can connect to it, but a CDMA network is not. And just because LTE is a GSM technology doesn't mean Verizon is a GSM network. They aren't, and as such are not bound buy those requirements. Lots of people have the phone on Verizon and have no real issues, lots of people are having issues. If it's time to assign blame, the bulk of it sits w/ Verizon from where I'm sitting.

From what I understand only the Sprint version has a CDMA radio.

 

[BigDinCA]

From what I understand only the Sprint version has a CDMA radio.

Sprint's the only one that enables the CDMA radios. They're in all of them. All of the radios are integrated. It's part of the whole Snapdragon platform.

 

[Habiib]

Sprint's the only one that enables the CDMA radios. They're in all of them. All of the radios are integrated. It's part of the whole Snapdragon platform.

That I didn't know. Thanks for the info. Now I wonder if Verizon can activate the CDMA radio in the same vein as Sprint?

 

[sangs]

This isn't how HTC plays the game. It's how Verizon plays the game. The phone has every band needed to work on Verizon, including CDMA bands. It has support for VoLTE, WiFi calling and mobile hotspot/tethering. Verizon has decided to cripple access to its network. They don't make money on a phone if you don't buy through them. Would they prefer to make money? Sure. "So buy a XXXX from us instead of that HTC U11. The xxxx works great on our network." A GSM network is obligated to accept any GSM device that can connect to it, but a CDMA network is not. And just because LTE is a GSM technology doesn't mean Verizon is a GSM network. They aren't, and as such are not bound buy those requirements. Lots of people have the phone on Verizon and have no real issues, lots of people are having issues. If it's time to assign blame, the bulk of it sits w/ Verizon from where I'm sitting.

Disagree. Verizon weren't the ones out there publicly touting that that the U11 was "certified" and would work on its network - HTC was. So while Verizon may be "crippling" it, that's not the crux of the issue right now. HTC should have waited before spouting off, but had they done so, then they wouldn't have made money because most Verizon customers would have stayed away from Day 1. So the blame remains with HTC for the bill of goods it passed around.

 

[BigDinCA]

That I didn't know. Thanks for the info. Now I wonder if Verizon can activate the CDMA radio in the same vein as Sprint?

Qualcomm is CDMA. I'm sure Verizon would fire everything up if there was enough of a financial benefit to them. But they also like to have test devices on their network for awhile, ahead of time.

 

[srmccoy]

Disagree. Verizon weren't the ones out there publicly touting that that the U11 was "certified" and would work on its network - HTC was. So while Verizon may be "crippling" it, that's not the crux of the issue right now. HTC should have waited before spouting off, but had they done so, then they wouldn't have made money because most Verizon customers would have stayed away from Day 1. So the blame remains with HTC for the bill of goods it passed around.

This is kind of where I stand. The phone is fantastic as it is, and I'm probably going to keep using it because I'm enjoying it so much. But it is sad that HTC spent so much time touting the phone in a way that just wasn't as accurate as it should have been. If they had been up front and said "Yeah, we're only on Band 13 and some Verizon apps won't work" I would've been fine with that.

I have been meaning to try TMo in my area, maybe I'll pick up a SIM for a few months and see how it goes.

 

[Hyperspace13]

If they had been up front and said "Yeah, we're only on Band 13 and some Verizon apps won't work" I would've been fine with that.

I agree.

 

[BigDinCA]

Long post here folks. Sorry. I'm supposed to be cleaning my boat and truck today, but I don't wanna.

I get that some people with the U11 on Verizon are upset. Rightly so. Some people aren't so I guess it depends on where you live and what LTE band you have access to. If HD Voice is already active on your line of service then some of the issues aren't applicable. But the Band 13 thing is a problem for lots of people. I don't know if HTC and Verizon had some working agreement in place only to realize that they weren't on the same page; or some terms of said agreement were altered along the way; or there was only a hope and a prayer involved on HTC's part. I'm hoping we all find out eventually.

In my earlier post I wasn't trying to dismiss anyone's issues. I was trying to get to the heart of the matter: Verizon is screwing people over who want a phone that is 100% capable of operating on their network! Qualcomm doesn't make a Verizon-specific Snapdragon processor. There aren't Verizon-only modems that manufacturers solder to circuit boards on special to phones that Verizon allows on their network. If that were the case, flagship phones would cost $3000. It's the carrier-specific software that enables some of this stuff. The U11 has every radio in it that you need to run on any network here. This includes the CDMA and GSM radios. The Snapragon 835 is a robust SoC, but it's more than just the one chip nowadays. They're responsible for the whole physical network ecosystem inside your device. Every LTE band is supported on this device. Here are the bands the device supports that work in the US: 1,2,3,4,5,7,8,12,13,20,25,26,28,41, and 66. It also has full support for 2 and 3-channel carrier aggregation here, as well as VoLTE and WiFi calling. It supports 4X4 MIMO too! I'm pretty sure that several of those bands are Verizon network bands.

So a few things here: when you see the device on HTC's site, they show you what bands are going to work on your network (except Verizon) by only showing the bands that network accesses. They could do a much better job of explaining this, as some people think they are getting branded devices. There really is only one device built by HTC. There are different software versions that make for different SKUs when you order a specific color, but that is it (unless the Sprint version has carrier branding printed on the back. I don't remember it having that when I went to a Sprint store to grope one. If it does, though, then there would technically be a different device built, though it would only be different at the end when they put a different back on it w/ Sprint's logo.). I'm sure that saves a ton of money on production costs, which HTC desperately needs. They only show features that will work with a network (i.e. VoLTE, etc.) when it doesn't require special access. This is why there is no VoLTE or WiFi calling on AT&T, but everything works on T-Mobile because they (like the honeybadger) don't give a $&!@. The MIMO capabilities (like CDMA) are only unlocked with the ROM on the Sprint devices. Maybe at some point they will unlock it on the unlocked version (is that a pun? I'm not sure) so T-Mobile users will get MIMO benefits as well. Maybe that was one of Sprint's requirements in order partner w/ HTC for this device. The plain and simple truth about Verizon is that the U11 works on Band 13 because Verizon can't stop it. Devices that utilize GSM radios can't be blocked by a network operator and neither can Band 13 (though there are a few technical exceptions to those rules), or anything in the 700MHz C block. Here's the rule about the 700MHz C block specifically :

Licensees offering service on spectrum subject to this section shall not deny, limit, or restrict the ability of their customers to use the devices and applications of their choice on the licensee's C Block network...

So that's that. The bare minimum that Verizon has to allow BY LAW is what they allow. That is their choice. This device has no issues with other bands or other features. Whether HTC jumped the gun saying the device would work all over Verizon's LTE bands or Verizon decided later on to lock the other bands down, who knows? I've seen various message boards where it looks like it was working on other bands for people for the first couple of days and then nothing. It seems a new SIM, activated on their line in a different phone then swapped it into their U11, got it working right, but now only on Band 13.

I am a huge nerd and a geek and a dork. Lots of us are here. In the beginning of this site, and most others like it, nerds ruled the roost. The forums were filled w/ techno-babble that most of us understood and we would switch between here and XDA, PPCGeeks, Phandroid, Android Police and others and we just understood what most of this stuff was and what it meant. Lots of people had the same usernames and avatars at multiple sites, making it feel very communal. As Android has turned into the norm, more average Joes (read: MUGGLES) have found their way here and have gotten tons of useful information, and hopefully a little bit of an education. Hopefully this helps someone understand a little more than they did before.

 

[MDMcAtee]

Muggles... Lol

Haven't heard that in awhile... Lol

Mac

 

[cmurgia]

Well said.

Now how do we get Verizon to get their head out of their ***, and quit crippling this awesome phone?

 

[srmccoy]

Well said.

Now how do we get Verizon to get their head out of their ***, and quit crippling this awesome phone?

I wouldn't go as far as crippling. The phone holds LTE in places other phones don't, and is reliable. It's just not AS fast, but perfectly functional.

 

[cmurgia]

I wouldn't go as far as crippling. The phone holds LTE in places other phones don't, and is reliable. It's just not AS fast, but perfectly functional.

OK, let's call it tying it's shoe laces together during a cross country race.

Not as fast is an understatement. I'm lucky to see 2mbps up and down most of the time.

I agree that it holds a signal very well.

 

[srmccoy]

OK, let's call it tying it's shoe laces together during a cross country race.

Not as fast is an understatement. I'm lucky to see 2mbps up and down most of the time.

I agree that it holds a signal very well.

It depends on your area, for sure I get around 8mbps here. Are you in an area that has band 4?

 

[cmurgia]

It depends on your area, for sure I get around 8mbps here. Are you in an area that has band 4?

I'm in Syracuse, NY. We definitely have Band 4 and I had great speeds with my 10.

 

[rushmore]

Simple point is the U11 should have all the bands covered. HTC is being deceptive with saying V certified and appear to be playing semantics games. Marketing is what marketing does.

 

[BigDinCA]

Simple point is the U11 should have all the bands covered.

HTC does have all the bands covered.

Why they chose to market it the way they did in the beginning is anyone's guess. Why Verizon won't let it operate to it's full ability on their network is also anyone's guess.

 

[srmccoy]

HTC does have all the bands covered.

Why they chose to market it the way they did in the beginning is anyone's guess. Why Verizon won't let it operate to it's full ability on their network is also anyone's guess.

Verizon has been pretty ****ty about unlocked phones on their network. The Pixel is the only one I can think of that currently works flawlessly, and that's because Google had an exclusivity deal with them to carry it in stores as well. My wife's unlocked Pixel from Google works exactly the same as a store-bought model.

In general I think they simply want you to buy devices through them, which is a really crappy business practice.