[RaRa85]

My problem with HTC is the same problem I have with LG. That is their strategy. At least in the case of LG their phones will be sold in carrier stores but no mention of such for HTC at the moment which could indeed change. But look at their launch events. Both LG and HTC bypassed any hoopla or live stream for their latest flagships completely eliminating the public from the experience of seeing the phones and features first-hand from the respective manufacturer. That to me is a BD move that does not imstill a lot of confidence that they believe in their product. Especially if you're not at the top of the hill. I feel like HTC and LG should be doing more to change that and it seems that maybe they've thrown in the towel. The HTC U12+ does look to be a serious contender however for 2018 but they did nothing to move us or really get us excited about the phone. This is all tied into a weak marketing strategy that has to change if they want to compete with the top dogs. I highly doubt that the general public will even know this phone exists if HTC doesn't get it in the places where people frequent. The physical stores. Is it just me or does anyone else agree that HTC has a lot of work to do to get this beast out to at least some of the masses?

[Ry]

My problem with HTC is the same problem I have with LG. That is their strategy. At least in the case of LG their phones will be sold in carrier stores but no mention of such for HTC at the moment which could indeed change. But look at their launch events. Both LG and HTC bypassed any hoopla or live stream for their latest flagships completely eliminating the public from the experience of seeing the phones and features first-hand from the respective manufacturer. That to me is a BD move that does not imstill a lot of confidence that they believe in their product. Especially if you're not at the top of the hill. I feel like HTC and LG should be doing more to change that and it seems that maybe they've thrown in the towel. The HTC U12+ does look to be a serious contender however for 2018 but they did nothing to move us or really get us excited about the phone. This is all tied into a weak marketing strategy that has to change if they want to compete with the top dogs. I highly doubt that the general public will even know this phone exists if HTC doesn't get it in the places where people frequent. The physical stores. Is it just me or does anyone else agree that HTC has a lot of work to do to get this beast out to at least some of the masses?

Strictly speaking on the US experience:

A public event won't make mainstream news like Apple and Samsung do.

These events cost money.

The US is a two-horse race. Apple and Samsung dominate. You have to compete with their marketing budgets.

Add in these factors:

• People still buy from carriers. No carrier deal? Assume DOA. Motorola, with their pricing, availability, and all-carrier support seems to be able to go against the grain here.
• People are holding onto their phones longer.
• Sales of older flagships, either used or refurbished, are growing.

And HTC hasn't been relevant in the smartphone world in years.

[RaRa85]

Very true points but even OnePlus hosted some kind of live stream event. I guess I just want to see HTC succeed and things like this aren't helping them. And I think Google will successfully and thankfully change the smartphone wars from being a two horsed race. The Pixel 3 will be my next phone. I really miss HTC Bei g more appreciated. But they've got to do something different.

[Ry]

Very true points but even OnePlus hosted some kind of live stream event. I guess I just want to see HTC succeed and things like this aren't helping them. And I think Google will successfully and thankfully change the smartphone wars from being a two horsed race. The Pixel 3 will be my next phone. I really miss HTC Bei g more appreciated. But they've got to do something different.

Regardless of how good the Pixel 3 or any other Google smartphone is, it's going to take a lot to make it a three horse race.

https://www.counterpointresearch.com...rtphone-share/

Q1 2018

Apple 38%
Samsung 26%
LG 15%
ZTE 11%
Others 10% (<-Google's probably not even a majority here)

[RaRa85]

Regardless of how good the Pixel 3 or any other Google smartphone is, it's going to take a lot to make it a three horse race.

https://www.counterpointresearch.com...rtphone-share/

Q1 2018

Apple 38%
Samsung 26%
LG 15%
ZTE 11%
Others 10% (<-Google's probably not even a majority here)

True but Google does have the brand recognition and the promise of an overall stellar performance because of the updates and security patches. The camera alone has helped Google make up some ground. And even if they haven't caught up in sales and marketshare, people are aware that they're one of the top brands in the smartphone world right now. And Google is marketing the heck out of the Pixel line which is positive going forward.

[Ry]

True but Google does have the brand recognition and the promise of an overall stellar performance because of the updates and security patches. The camera alone has helped Google make up some ground. And even if they haven't caught up in sales and marketshare, people are aware that they're one of the top brands in the smartphone world right now. And Google is marketing the heck out of the Pixel line which is positive going forward.

But Google's only on one carrier in the US and still doesn't want to step on their partner's toes.

Buy any Android phone with Google Play Services and Google wins.

[holz75]

But Google's only on one carrier in the US and still doesn't want to step on their partner's toes.

Buy any Android phone with Google Play Services and Google wins.

Exactly. The Pixel needs to be on all 4 major carriers to even cut into that share. Most consumers walk into a store and buy a phone from a commercial or talking to the reps. All of us on these forums are a tiny, tiny % of consumers, and it will take a lot to cut into the Apple and Samsung dominance.

[Chuck Finley69]

Not to be the jerk in this discussion, however, it's not like any second place OEMs are going to just show up and tell carriers to shelve their devices. Even if any second place OEM had the money to out bid and pay more for the retail space, why should the carriers upset the status quo. The carriers responsibilities are to shareholders as they own the carriers. The owners don't care what brands are sold, just care that more devices are sold.

Another note... Didn't Alphabet/Google/Android purchase a big OEM division to help design and manage their device business last year? Aren't both of these devices sort of related if you think about it?

[anon(10464842)]

My problem with HTC is the same problem I have with LG. That is their strategy. At least in the case of LG their phones will be sold in carrier stores but no mention of such for HTC at the moment which could indeed change. But look at their launch events. Both LG and HTC bypassed any hoopla or live stream for their latest flagships completely eliminating the public from the experience of seeing the phones and features first-hand from the respective manufacturer. That to me is a BD move that does not imstill a lot of confidence that they believe in their product. Especially if you're not at the top of the hill. I feel like HTC and LG should be doing more to change that and it seems that maybe they've thrown in the towel. The HTC U12+ does look to be a serious contender however for 2018 but they did nothing to move us or really get us excited about the phone. This is all tied into a weak marketing strategy that has to change if they want to compete with the top dogs. I highly doubt that the general public will even know this phone exists if HTC doesn't get it in the places where people frequent. The physical stores. Is it just me or does anyone else agree that HTC has a lot of work to do to get this beast out to at least some of the masses?

I couldn't agree more! Coincidently, my father was asking me yesterday "why is HTC not as famous as Google/Samsung, this phone is extremely powerful" (about the U11 that I just purchased for him)... and in his mind google and Samsung are better because they are more famous! I didn't get him Samsung because I know they collect faults overtime, which is something my HTC never did!

Unfortunately many people are like that, and many ppl will drift away and not bother trying! It is not just about creating amazing phones, but it is about reaching to customers, and finding the most cost-effectives ways for doing this! Yes HTC doesn't have the same budget as Google/Samsung, but there is so much more they can do to improve their marketing... I shouldn't need to google "HTC" to find out about the U12, (which is basically what I did!)

I can't get past why they didn't do live streaming, how expensive is it compared to not selling out because people don't know about it?

[RaRa85]

I couldn't agree more! Coincidently, my father was asking me yesterday "why is HTC not as famous as Google/Samsung, this phone is extremely powerful" (about the U11 that I just purchased for him)... and in his mind google and Samsung are better because they are more famous! I didn't get him Samsung because I know they collect faults overtime, which is something my HTC never did!

Unfortunately many people are like that, and many ppl will drift away and not bother trying! It is not just about creating amazing phones, but it is about reaching to customers, and finding the most cost-effectives ways for doing this! Yes HTC doesn't have the same budget as Google/Samsung, but there is so much more they can do to improve their marketing... I shouldn't need to google "HTC" to find out about the U12, (which is basically what I did!)

I can't get past why they didn't do live streaming, how expensive is it compared to not selling out because people don't know about it?

Yeah I'm sure there's more to it as some other have pointed out but just from a fan perspective it doesn't look good. You have to find a way to keep the fans connected to you and your products. And if the U12+ isn't sold in carrier stores how many people will know about it? And we can't test the device before preordering because no one has it. That's not a great strategy. I just want to see HTC be active in reaching out to consumers and fans alike and I hold the same true to LG. The G7 just seems like a spec bump phone compared to dual apertures and triple cameras or even 480fps slow motion. The U12+ kinda feels the same way but seems to be better built and will probably have the better camera performance.

[dov1978]

Isn't this a US only issue? It's definitely available for pre-order in carrier stores here in the UK anyway

[RaRa85]

Isn't this a US only issue? It's definitely available for pre-order in carrier stores here in the UK anyway

Well it might be and that's a good sign if it's not happening in all markets.

[dov1978]

Carriers in the US seem to being through a bit of a strange patch just now with quite a few handsets or manufacturers just not being offered. Nokia, HTC etc etc

[msm0511]

In the US OEMs have to pay for shelf space as confirmed by HTC VP of Product Nigel Newbyhouse. He said it would drive up the phone price.
"The costs involved in securing a spot on store shelves are considerable. The likely result would be a more expensive phone.

Instead, the U12+ comes fully tested by each of the three carriers. You can get carrier-specific units in 64 GB form, or fully unlocked versions – compatible with all three networks – in 64 GB or 128 GB form."

via SlashGear. https://www.slashgear.com/htc-u12-pl...know-23531717/

[Chuck Finley69]

In the US OEMs have to pay for shelf space as confirmed by HTC VP of Product Nigel Newbyhouse. He said it would drive up the phone price.
"The costs involved in securing a spot on store shelves are considerable. The likely result would be a more expensive phone.

Instead, the U12+ comes fully tested by each of the three carriers. You can get carrier-specific units in 64 GB form, or fully unlocked versions – compatible with all three networks – in 64 GB or 128 GB form."

via SlashGear. https://www.slashgear.com/htc-u12-pl...know-23531717/

Unfortunately, carriers willfully block enhanced calling features such as VoLTE and WiFi calling on non-carrier sold devices. Heck, Wifi calling is blocked on my carrier locked AT&T BlackBerry KEYone.

[RaRa85]

In the US OEMs have to pay for shelf space as confirmed by HTC VP of Product Nigel Newbyhouse. He said it would drive up the phone price.
"The costs involved in securing a spot on store shelves are considerable. The likely result would be a more expensive phone.

Instead, the U12+ comes fully tested by each of the three carriers. You can get carrier-specific units in 64 GB form, or fully unlocked versions – compatible with all three networks – in 64 GB or 128 GB form."

via SlashGear. https://www.slashgear.com/htc-u12-pl...know-23531717/

Man that's kinda unfortunate and I guess that's why they can afford to have the U11 Life on store shelves. I guess HTC could've priced it lower to offset that but there would still be no guarantee that people would buy it so they'd be taking a double loss I guess. I just hope people notice it somehow. I don't know what their plan is as far as commercials and stuff but they have to do something. Finding out the U12+ is capable of long exposures up to 32 seconds really impressed me being a manual mode lover. However I'm waiting for official reviews and ultimately the Pixel 3 announcement before I make any decisions on my next phone. I really want to make sure I'm going to get something I'll be happy with for two plus years.

[msm0511]

Man that's kinda unfortunate and I guess that's why they can afford to have the U11 Life on store shelves. I guess HTC could've priced it lower to offset that but there would still be no guarantee that people would buy it so they'd be taking a double loss I guess.

I forgot that TMo sells the U11 Life. Hmmm.

Unfortunately, carriers willfully block enhanced calling features such as VoLTE and WiFi calling on non-carrier sold devices.

I'm hoping TMo won't block those. They seem to on some phones, but not on others. Hopefully since the U12+ was tested by carriers they won't block any available features. AT&T and Verizon are known to do that though.

[Ry]

Unfortunately, carriers willfully block enhanced calling features such as VoLTE and WiFi calling on non-carrier sold devices. Heck, Wifi calling is blocked on my carrier locked AT&T BlackBerry KEYone.

Could you elaborate more on how you know this to be true?

[msm0511]

Could you elaborate more on how you know this to be true?

It happens a lot with unlocked phones. For example, on the Xperia XZ2/Compact, VoLTE and wifi calling are not supported by TMo even though the phone has the ability.

[NEXUS_HTC_PS]

It happens a lot with unlocked phones. For example, on the Xperia XZ2/Compact, VoLTE and wifi calling are not supported by TMo even though the phone has the ability.

Yup, that's a huge factor as to why I returned the XZ2. HTC has a great track record with ensuring the unlocked phones are properly certified. I don't know why they'd pull back now.

[msm0511]

Yup, that's a huge factor as to why I returned the XZ2. HTC has a great track record with ensuring the unlocked phones are properly certified. I don't know why they'd pull back now.

The quote I posted earlier that the VP of product said that the phones were tested by the carriers means it won't be any problem.

"Instead, the U12+ comes fully tested by each of the three carriers. You can get carrier-specific units in 64 GB form, or fully unlocked versions"

I'm just hoping that I didn't need to select my "carrier-specific unit" instead of unlocked.

[Ry]

It happens a lot with unlocked phones. For example, on the Xperia XZ2/Compact, VoLTE and wifi calling are not supported by TMo even though the phone has the ability.

But what are the steps to get it working?

What are the carriers blocking?

[msm0511]

But what are the steps to get it working?

What are the carriers blocking?

I'm assuming the same way they block tethering. When the carrier's systems see the phone is trying to connect in an unapproved way, it blocks it. Carriers can check the IMEi of phones accessing its systems. If it's a non-approved device it blocks access to certain services.

[bhatech]

At least on T-Mobile most unlocked phones do get WiFi calling and VoLTE. T-Mobile is not like AT&T where these features aren't available on unlocked phones. Sure there are few unlocked phones that don't have WiFi calling and VoLTE on T-Mobile like for example latest Sony XZ2 flagship but that's more of Sony fault and don't think TMobile is doing anything to block it. Heck even OnePlus 6 has VoLTE and WiFi calling on T-Mobile.

Overall I have been really happy buying using non carrier unlocked phones on T-Mobile. Been a while since I used a carrier crapped up branded phone and couldn't be more happier.

As for as sales, yeah it's going to hurt not being on carrier stores since people only buy carrier branded phones. Unless you are Samsung, carriers don't work with anyone else very well in the US. With Apple they don't have a choice, Apple treats the carriers like **** but the carriers have no power when it comes to Apple and have to carry them. For other Android OEMs they don't have the budget and market presence to push carriers (chicken and egg problem). At least in US it's a done deal between Samsung and Apple for majority sales. The niche knowledgeable market which is relatively small will probably shop around and willing to buy outside of carriers.

At least the U12+ is on Amazon, who have great customer service. I have placed my pre order from them, let's see how it goes once I've receive it in June.

PS: Yes there is LG, Motorola etc who have carrier relations in US. But they don't seem that great compared to Samsung, Apple.

[msm0511]

Apple treats the carriers like **** but the carriers have no power when it comes to Apple and have to carry them.

See, I think more OEMs should start backing carriers in a corner as Apple does. I love that Apple has them in a position to be what they are, dumb pipes. All it would really take is for Samsung to stand up to them, then the smaller manufacturers would have a leg to stand on.