1. kingdavidbaker's Avatar
    So there is alot controversy surrounding the app piracy so I wanted to summarize the debate and viewpoints of both sides and then open the debate.

    THE APP DEV's POINT OF VIEW
    The side that app devs tend to take is fairly simple. They don't like piracy because it allows you to get their app for free. A lot of people don't realize that most app devs are not some huge company pulling in a billion a year. Most devs are some guy chilling in his apartment who took the time between WoW sessions to develop an application. They are spending their own time and effort on the application and are only reimbursed by donations and what they make on the app store. That said, most devs I know didn't do it because they thought they could make a million dollars....they just enjoy doing it and wanted to see what they could come up with. Of course nobody is against a lil extra pocket money lol. But the point is that I don't know a single dev who is going to stop making apps/whatever because they aren't getting paid. Its something they enjoy doing and so they will continue.

    So basically the devs believe that because they spent their time and energy creating something you find useful, you should help support them by purchasing the app. Most apps are extremely cheap ($.99) and if you find it useful it is definitely worth the cash. Hell you can walk outside and ask 10 people for a quarter and I'm betting you walk away with at least a dollar. Your single purchase might not make someone rich but it'll definitely help make their day.


    THE "I WANT FREE STUFF" POINT OF VIEW
    This point of view is fairly simple as well.....I want free stuff! There is a large group of people who will go to great lengths to avoid paying for something. A big part of the thought process here is....if I can get something for free then why the hell would I pay? They are willing to go through a decent amount of hassle and issues if they can get something for free. In their point of view they are not going to single handedly ruin the Android app economy by getting a few things for free. The apps are so cheap anyway that their dollar makes no difference.

    Alot of devs don't realize that these are the kind of people who were never going to pay for anything. Like I said they will go to great lengths to avoid paying and if for some reason they can't get it for free.....they just won't get it. Yes a small percentage might choose to pay but most people will search for something else if they can't obtain it free of charge. So basically the devs were never going to make any money off of these people but at least their app is getting used and hopefully some word of mouth gets out which in turn boosts sales.


    MY QUESTIONS TO BOTH SIDES

    Q for freebies: Is the meager amount these apps cost really worth the hassle and insecurity of getting something for free?

    Q for freebies: Wouldn't you like to support the creators of something you enjoy and make use of?

    Q for devs: Would you rather your app gets used for free or that it doesn't get used at all?

    Q for devs: Are you going to stop creating apps simply becuase you aren't making money?


    Sorry if anybody gets annoyed by this discussion. I enjoy a good debate on controversial subjects and am capable of looking at both sides without prejudice and tend to forget most people don't work that way. This is not meant to put down either side of the fence, just an area for a friendly debate.
    04-20-2011 01:30 PM
  2. gk1984's Avatar
    Lets also address the 15 minute refund window if the app doesn't work of doesn't meet your expectations. Not all apps have a free version to try and especially games don't always perform well. Hell, I will admit to doing it a couple of times and then bought the app/game later after I liked it and found it worked.

    Solution, make sure there's a demo for your app.
    ClutchX_LA likes this.
    04-20-2011 02:51 PM
  3. kingdavidbaker's Avatar
    Solution, make sure there's a demo for your app.
    Good Point! I don't necessarily want to buy something blind hoping it will work....and then if it does work I certainly would like a lil more than 15 minutes to decide if I like it. I believe that Verizon gives you a 24 hour return window and sprint is 15min but I could be mistaken.
    Captain Niko likes this.
    04-20-2011 03:40 PM
  4. tirith's Avatar
    MY QUESTIONS TO BOTH SIDES

    Q for freebies: Is the meager amount these apps cost really worth the hassle and insecurity of getting something for free?
    If it works, it works?

    Q for freebies: Wouldn't you like to support the creators of something you enjoy and make use of?Yes, that way they have the motivation to create more apps...

    Q for devs: Would you rather your app gets used for free or that it doesn't get used at all?Honestly, anything I've developed I've done for my own use, however, some friends running android have been given my creations and they love them.... I haven't even put anything up on the market yet....

    Q for devs: Are you going to stop creating apps simply becuase you aren't making money?nope
    Just my p.o.v.
    04-20-2011 08:29 PM
  5. kingdavidbaker's Avatar
    Thats what I figured. Most of the devs I know just have fun doing it and most people don't expect cash for something they enjoy.

    Psssh....makin apps and not sharing.....share the wealth!
    04-21-2011 10:33 AM
  6. Captain Niko's Avatar
    Good Point! I don't necessarily want to buy something blind hoping it will work....and then if it does work I certainly would like a lil more than 15 minutes to decide if I like it. I believe that Verizon gives you a 24 hour return window and sprint is 15min but I could be mistaken.
    Sprints return window is balls. I don't use it anymore. If I cant use a demo first then im more than likely NOT buying the app. I'll support the dev and buy and app no problem. but give me a demo or something.
    04-21-2011 10:54 AM
  7. CarrieK's Avatar
    I try the "lite" version first and then buy if I like it. The devs invest a lot of time even though it may just be a hobby. If there isn't a lite version I can try first and mess with (especially if it involves modifying settings or configuring things a certain way) to make sure it works then I won't buy it. Ratings in the Android market can be bought, and there are a lot of people who write ratings don't read the specifications for the app and rate it poorly because they installed it on the wrong device or OS, so I don't pay that much attention to them. I read the forums and publications and buy/download based on that for the most part.

    I don't feel comfortable using Applanet.
    04-21-2011 10:57 AM
  8. shortyjacobs's Avatar
    Lite versions are smart.....I almost always start out with the lite version, then upgrade...I can't be troubled to try and return apps though, so without the free version I probably would never have tried it.
    04-21-2011 11:10 AM
  9. sheit's Avatar
    As most have said above I agree with having a "lite" version of the app to make sure that it works with my phone and does what it says

    But on that note I think a couple day trial period of the full app would be better than a "lite version", which leaves key features out, as without trying them we don't know that they work as stated on our device.

    The other point to bring up is the "Linux" based system and I think most feel pretty strongly about Open Source and Free Software.

    That all being said - give me a trial that works and something i will use then I will purchase the app to support the developers - at a reasonable price... (which most are).
    04-21-2011 02:21 PM
  10. joshb2118's Avatar
    Honestly, im the "if its free why buy it?" but, what makes me forcefully buy stuff, is when there is no other way to get it; (for example, in forced to stay with the built in maps on c.o.d, while everyone is buying them, guess i have to buy em), like tap tap 4 i have bought $5 worth of credits for songs, and launcherpro plus, i think if devs had a app with few features/levels, and unlocked the features/levels, with the new in-app payment option, they would get more money, now that more people are tempted to unlock the full capacity of the app...
    04-21-2011 02:39 PM
  11. j37hr0's Avatar
    I can tell you both apps that I have purchased Titanium and SwiftKey. Both provided an innovative and elegant solution to a problem that Google, Sprint and LG hadn't addressed. Both had free trials that I used to make sure that my money, as small amount as it was, was not being wasted. That's all it takes to get someone to buy your software, don't put out crap software that doesn't provide a solution to something. To get back on topic, Haven't pirated any apps for my phones, unless you count installing the Netflix apk that never worked. I don't write code, so I can't comment on the questions for devs.
    04-21-2011 03:22 PM
  12. MuzikRow#AC's Avatar
    It depends on the "hassle factor". For example, when Sprint sent the ZVD update and it killed Hotspot Widget, I actually took the time to roll back the update to ZV9. After following the directions to the T, the hassle factor was relatively low.

    The other options: Spend $10 to purchase EasyTether (which would probably be worth the money) or go to Sprint and sign up for a tethering plan which would probably cost somewhere north of $25.99/month.

    I'd rather stick it to "the man" (Sprint). Besides, my wife only uses it maybe once a week, but she freaked when Sprint killed it.

    Your average dev, I would not consider "the man", but rather a creative type like myself; making music, instead of apps, between jerk off sessions.

    I was introduced to Applanet last week. I tried it out and about 50% of the time, the stuff is outright junk. I downloaded several apps that just simply would not work or crashed for one reason or another. It kinda turned me off, so I've only checked into it sporadically. Not exactly a game changer in my world.
    04-22-2011 12:11 AM
  13. tirith's Avatar
    sprint tethering plan - 29.99 (just for reference)

    i did the rollback thing and rommed my phone, so yea...
    04-22-2011 10:39 AM
  14. KSmithInNY's Avatar
    I've changed the title to remove reference to the black market app store(s). The core of the discussion is pirating apps. If we start discussing methods to steal or instructions on obtaining black markets or anything of that nature I'll close it.

    Please don't make me close it because i think this is an important topic that people are passionate about but when we talk about let's be generic. Also, as i said people are passionate about this so even if you disagree with someones opinion, please do so respectfully.
    04-22-2011 11:25 AM
  15. scrosler's Avatar
    Here is my warped point of view. I have used pirated apps and OSís all of my life... since the days of Windows 2.0. Well, I have certain criteria on whether or not I will pirate an app. First is cost. Microsoft sets the bar for overpriced software. Hence, I am very likely to pirate Windows 7 and Office 2010. I see it like this. Microsoft looses NOTHING when I pirate this software because I cannot afford to shell out the cash for the full retail price to begin with hence I will not be buying it. If Iím not going to buy it to begin with what are they loosing?

    As far as the Android apps go I have mixed feelingsÖ

    Point 1: The cost of the apps are for the most part pretty low. $1.00 here and $2.00 there will not break me and I will pay for those apps. No need to pirate them. If I donít like it then I probably should have read the reviews to begin with before buying it.

    Point 2: This is a counterpoint to my first point, in a way. I thought the whole purpose of Open Source software was to provide a free alternative to paid for software. I think charging for apps ruins the whole intent of open source software. Im sure I am not perceiving this correctly but its still my perception until someone corrects me.

    Point 3: Slightly off topicÖ ButÖ ads in applications? Really? Thatís got to stop.


    -Scott
    04-22-2011 01:48 PM
  16. sfhub's Avatar
    Point 2: This is a counterpoint to my first point, in a way. I thought the whole purpose of Open Source software was to provide a free alternative to paid for software. I think charging for apps ruins the whole intent of open source software. Im sure I am not perceiving this correctly but its still my perception until someone corrects me.
    This is all "in general". Open Source is about "Free" as in "Free Speech" not "Free Beer". Providing the source code is what is focused on. You can charge for stuff if you want. If people don't like your charging model, they get off their lazy butt, download your source, and fork the tree, then they can get it for "Free" and even provide support for the "Free" software if they'd like, paid or unpaid. They must however make their changes to the source public also, so if someone doesn't like what they are doing, they can fork the tree also, and so on and so forth.

    I say "in general" because there are various flavors of Open Source where people carve out exceptions for their own needs.
    scrosler likes this.
    04-22-2011 02:52 PM
  17. joshb2118's Avatar
    I would have disagree with the hatred for ads, it might take up performance but your getting a full app for free, btw u can ways get a ad remover, and open source doesn't mean all of its free, android is free, you can make as many roms as you desire but, u cant sell those roms, only receive donations...
    04-22-2011 08:03 PM
  18. one80oneday's Avatar
    I don't use many paid apps however do check piracy sites kinda to find new apps in general. In my experience free apps with ad blocker work better and are updated more. BTW what happened to Blackmart Alpha?
    04-22-2011 08:18 PM
  19. tirith's Avatar
    the ads don't bother me... If i download a trial and like it, chances are I'll pay for it if it's reasonable...

    one app i know i'll never buy and will keep the lite version: gameboid - i have no need for Save States....
    04-23-2011 03:54 AM
  20. joshb2118's Avatar
    Or u can just get Tiger GBA, fully featured for free...
    04-23-2011 12:56 PM
  21. sheit's Avatar
    Let me know when you find "Free Beer"!

    As for downloading the Source files, Could you not just download the source - change the program name if you desire - and just re-compile it and use it on your own phone for free? Is that legit?

    If so it seems like this shouldn't even be a debate/subject as the tools are built in to the system to "take" if you will any program for free anyway without a online pirated source.

    But as I said before if the app is usefull and resonably priced, support the developers. I dont see how anyone with a "smart" phone and a full data subscription on these carriers charges can complain about a $2 app. Just supply us with a trial choice and a way to refund.
    04-23-2011 01:17 PM
  22. joshb2118's Avatar
    People buy $60 games all the time, thats like 30-60 apps, which are updated constantly....
    04-23-2011 02:04 PM
  23. denshigomi's Avatar
    ...
    As for downloading the Source files, Could you not just download the source - change the program name if you desire - and just re-compile it and use it on your own phone for free? Is that legit?

    If so it seems like this shouldn't even be a debate/subject as the tools are built in to the system to "take" if you will any program for free anyway without a online pirated source.
    ...
    There is a distinction between Android and apps. They are not one and the same.
    Android is open source. You can do exactly as you described with Android.
    However, you cannot do that with an app, unless the app is also open source.
    sheit likes this.
    04-23-2011 03:22 PM
  24. tirith's Avatar
    Or u can just get Tiger GBA, fully featured for free...
    kind of partial to gameboid, first GBA emulator that was offered on the market forever ago...

    If you don't want to pay for an app, heres an idea.... dev one yourself?
    04-24-2011 01:02 AM
  25. spenfive's Avatar
    Some people want apps, and just cant afford, some of the prices, i dont mind supporting devs, some people do, i have a friend who loves spb shell 3d, downloads it 5 days s week sets it up 5 times, all because he just cant afford that extra 15 dollars on his budget, just sayin..

    lgos word
    04-29-2011 09:53 PM
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