How's your V20 stock battery holding up?

flyingkytez

Banned
Jan 28, 2011
3,368
0
0
Visit site
Well you can buy direct from LG. I ended up doing that. It's expensive but when you consider I have purchased 3 different batteries from different suppliers on Ebay and every one of them sucked it's easier if not thriftier to buy from LG. Once those are gone we're screwed.

Amazon has the legit battery kit.
 

flyingkytez

Banned
Jan 28, 2011
3,368
0
0
Visit site
It's quicker than connecting to a brick sized external battery not to mention the external power sources require carrying a cable. The V20 battery in its case is very comfortable and safe to carry. Don't ever carry a spare battery without a case. Short circuit when coins touch it could lead to hot pants! Perfectly safe in the hard plastic case that comes with the external charger.

Yeah I always carry it in the plastic case it came with. I can't find where else to buy extra cases though.
 

ansa82

Well-known member
Sep 10, 2012
1,835
43
48
Visit site
my batteries arent great. I no longer get a 15% low battery warning, it just goes from 20% to dead. figured I would purchase a new battery after Christmas
 

tickerguy

Well-known member
Nov 4, 2016
131
0
0
Visit site
Yeah, the proper way to charge a lithium-chemsitry battery is pretty-simple, but NOBODY does it (including LG).

It's this:

1. Charge at up to 1C (that is, if you have a 3,300mah battery, 3.3 Amps) until the cell voltage reaches 4.2V. This is 85% of capacity, approximately. From "empty" this will require about 45 minutes, assuming you can source sufficient current and the battery doesn't get hot.

2. Hold the charge voltage at 4.2V. Charging current will taper; when it gets to .03 C (e.g. ~100ma) the cell is full. This will require about an additional *two hours*.

A cell that exhibits more than a roughly ~20F rise in temperature during charging *before* its terminal voltage reaches 4.2V is compromised and should be replaced. The device *should* display a warning if that happens (note that no existing cellphone does from LG or anyone else.)

If the device is on during charging then you have additional problems determining the actual rate of charge because you must accurately measure the drain of the device and subtract it from the charge current. You must also account for cell heating from the device and charging circuits when monitoring the cell temperature if you are attempting to alert on a defective battery due to high resistance.

A phone company that actually cared about its customer experience would offer the following settings when it comes to batteries:

In ALL cases -- any cell below 3V is charged at 0.1C (~300ma) until the voltage reaches 3V. This should NOT happen (such a battery has been "overdischarged") but it can, and the only safe alternative to the low-rate initial charge in this case is to declare such a battery "dead" and refuse to charge it at all.

1. "Preserve battery life" (default): Charges to 4.2V at all available current levels up to 1C, then shuts off. No saturation charge; if left plugged in will hold voltage at 4.0V, assuming that temperature remains within limits. This will result in a battery charge to 85% very rapidly (assuming it doesn't get hot), but essentially no charge at all beyond that point. If you select this you'll more than *double* battery cycle life over what cell companies do to you now.

2. "Fully charge consistent with good battery life": Charges to 4.2V at all available current levels to 1C, then holds at 4.2V until the charge current drops to 0.03C and terminates. If left plugged in will re-start when voltage drops to 4.0V. This cycle is a decent compromise, will charge to 85% from effective 0% in an hour but requires ~2-3 hours to reach full charge. This will result in roughly a 50% improvement in battery cycle life over what you experience now.

3. "Fully charge and hold": Displays a warning about compromising cell life if selected. Charges to 4.3V before tapering. Far more likely to run into heat-limiting during the charge; will charge to 85% in an hour but "finish" in another 20 minutes or so. Holds the cell at 4.2V if left on charge. This is pretty-much the protocol that cell companies use now, and it does fairly severe damage to cells if frequently charged fully (resulting in about a one-year service life instead of 2-3.) This is what you get now.

If the unit is OFF during charging then #1 is used with the modification that no float current is applied at all, nor will charge restart, until cell voltage drops to under 3.6V.

LG appears to add a twist to #3 in that it immediately current-limits the charge to about 700ma if the screen is on. This is arguably a good practice as it limits some of the damage that #3 does especially in a car where you have the phone connected to power and are using it for Nav; most phones will immediately run the battery up to 100% under fast-charge in those conditions, limited only by heating, and that's really, really rough on battery life. It also appears LG cuts off the charge short of the 100% level (at about 95%) which is also good. But they could do better if they implemented the above.

If manufacturers had any interest in actually providing you with all the cell life you bought originally they'd allow you to select #1 and maybe default to #2 . As it stands they all do #3 , some with a few twists. LG is one of the few I've seen that actually tries to mitigate *some* of the damage by limiting charge rate with the screen on and cutting it off a bit early if left plugged in.
 

mrdave570

Well-known member
Jan 10, 2017
101
0
0
Visit site
I bought 2 stock batteries from AT&T (my carrier). One of them went bad after a year. It refuses to charge in the phone or in the LG cradle. On Jan 1, I tried to order a new one from LG. They are out of stock. I had to order a new OEM from Ebay. Not sure what else to do. LG should be carrying them. WTF?
 

mwake4goten

Well-known member
Jun 27, 2014
576
1
18
Visit site
Yeah, the proper way to charge a lithium-chemsitry battery is pretty-simple, but NOBODY does it (including LG).

It's this:

1. Charge at up to 1C (that is, if you have a 3,300mah battery, 3.3 Amps) until the cell voltage reaches 4.2V. This is 85% of capacity, approximately. From "empty" this will require about 45 minutes, assuming you can source sufficient current and the battery doesn't get hot.

2. Hold the charge voltage at 4.2V. Charging current will taper; when it gets to .03 C (e.g. ~100ma) the cell is full. This will require about an additional *two hours*.

A cell that exhibits more than a roughly ~20F rise in temperature during charging *before* its terminal voltage reaches 4.2V is compromised and should be replaced. The device *should* display a warning if that happens (note that no existing cellphone does from LG or anyone else.)

If the device is on during charging then you have additional problems determining the actual rate of charge because you must accurately measure the drain of the device and subtract it from the charge current. You must also account for cell heating from the device and charging circuits when monitoring the cell temperature if you are attempting to alert on a defective battery due to high resistance.

A phone company that actually cared about its customer experience would offer the following settings when it comes to batteries:

In ALL cases -- any cell below 3V is charged at 0.1C (~300ma) until the voltage reaches 3V. This should NOT happen (such a battery has been "overdischarged") but it can, and the only safe alternative to the low-rate initial charge in this case is to declare such a battery "dead" and refuse to charge it at all.

1. "Preserve battery life" (default): Charges to 4.2V at all available current levels up to 1C, then shuts off. No saturation charge; if left plugged in will hold voltage at 4.0V, assuming that temperature remains within limits. This will result in a battery charge to 85% very rapidly (assuming it doesn't get hot), but essentially no charge at all beyond that point. If you select this you'll more than *double* battery cycle life over what cell companies do to you now.

2. "Fully charge consistent with good battery life": Charges to 4.2V at all available current levels to 1C, then holds at 4.2V until the charge current drops to 0.03C and terminates. If left plugged in will re-start when voltage drops to 4.0V. This cycle is a decent compromise, will charge to 85% from effective 0% in an hour but requires ~2-3 hours to reach full charge. This will result in roughly a 50% improvement in battery cycle life over what you experience now.

3. "Fully charge and hold": Displays a warning about compromising cell life if selected. Charges to 4.3V before tapering. Far more likely to run into heat-limiting during the charge; will charge to 85% in an hour but "finish" in another 20 minutes or so. Holds the cell at 4.2V if left on charge. This is pretty-much the protocol that cell companies use now, and it does fairly severe damage to cells if frequently charged fully (resulting in about a one-year service life instead of 2-3.) This is what you get now.

If the unit is OFF during charging then #1 is used with the modification that no float current is applied at all, nor will charge restart, until cell voltage drops to under 3.6V.

LG appears to add a twist to #3 in that it immediately current-limits the charge to about 700ma if the screen is on. This is arguably a good practice as it limits some of the damage that #3 does especially in a car where you have the phone connected to power and are using it for Nav; most phones will immediately run the battery up to 100% under fast-charge in those conditions, limited only by heating, and that's really, really rough on battery life. It also appears LG cuts off the charge short of the 100% level (at about 95%) which is also good. But they could do better if they implemented the above.

If manufacturers had any interest in actually providing you with all the cell life you bought originally they'd allow you to select #1 and maybe default to #2 . As it stands they all do #3 , some with a few twists. LG is one of the few I've seen that actually tries to mitigate *some* of the damage by limiting charge rate with the screen on and cutting it off a bit early if left plugged in.
Yes I totally agree there should be selectable charging pattern options.
 

tickerguy

Well-known member
Nov 4, 2016
131
0
0
Visit site
Nothing wrong with that, so long as the battery is designed to handle higher currents and such.
It's not possible to short-time the saturation charge on a Lithium-chemistry cell without damaging the number of cycles it can sustain. It's a function of the chemistry in the cell and physics; there's nothing you can do about it.
 

Mooncatt

Ambassador
Feb 23, 2011
10,718
275
83
Visit site
It's not possible to short-time the saturation charge on a Lithium-chemistry cell without damaging the number of cycles it can sustain. It's a function of the chemistry in the cell and physics; there's nothing you can do about it.
I wasn't referring to that, but to the initial full current charge stage. The time to charge up to about 75% is where you'll see time savings and safely so.

Are you saying manufacturers are trying to shorten the saturation stage? If so, then I would agree that's a bad idea and isn't something I've personally seen attempted. Any phone I've had properly throttles back the final stages, and to do otherwise would result in battery problems across board. So until I've seen evidence that manufacturers are doing that, I'm not going to fault them for artificially degrading batteries.
 

Mooncatt

Ambassador
Feb 23, 2011
10,718
275
83
Visit site
I don't have a separate tool for checking this, but these are from one of my monitoring apps. You can clearly see, that at least with LG, the saturation phase has the draw down of charging current as expected. (Fyi, the voltage graph scale is over a longer time period, so I could show the voltage increase before saturation.) I suspect I'd see similar results on an external meter, which may still be inaccurate unless charging with the phone off.

Also of note, the Lipo's LG uses are rated at 3.85 nominal voltage, not the usual 3.7V. I remember reading in one of the Battery University articles that newer technologies/materials have allowed for these slightly higher charge voltages without severely impacting safety or longevity.

Taking my typical charge and usage into account (I.e. A fair bit of gaming and usually charging to 100%), I can say my overall battery life on any phone is about as good as can be expected. I get over a year of use out of them with charging 40-100% usually 2-3 times a day.
 

Attachments

  • Capture+_2018-01-04-01-30-52.jpg
    Capture+_2018-01-04-01-30-52.jpg
    142.5 KB · Views: 29
  • Capture+_2018-01-04-01-31-34.jpg
    Capture+_2018-01-04-01-31-34.jpg
    149 KB · Views: 30

tickerguy

Well-known member
Nov 4, 2016
131
0
0
Visit site
Charge voltages beyond 4.2V have a very material impact on battery life, and LG, like every other cellphone company, runs their charger at well beyond 4.2V.

This is how they (and everyone else) shortens the "absorption" phase -- they drive it harder. The "chemistry changes" people talk about in terms of allegedly higher nominal voltages doesn't translate into "you can run that higher charge voltage during absorption without impacting cell life", however. What it does do is reduce, to some degree, the heating that results during the absorption phase -- but the damage is still taking place.
 

Mooncatt

Ambassador
Feb 23, 2011
10,718
275
83
Visit site
Look into the newer graphene style Lipo batteries. These are designed for up to 4.4V charging. The LG battery doesn't mention the chemistry, but I'm speculating that's what's going on with them and other "high voltage" batteries. I do know they are somewhat common in RC hobby Lipos now.
 

flyingkytez

Banned
Jan 28, 2011
3,368
0
0
Visit site
I bought 2 stock batteries from AT&T (my carrier). One of them went bad after a year. It refuses to charge in the phone or in the LG cradle. On Jan 1, I tried to order a new one from LG. They are out of stock. I had to order a new OEM from Ebay. Not sure what else to do. LG should be carrying them. WTF?

Amazon is still carrying the original battery kit, 100% authentic. Zero lemon is a reputable company and sells a replacement battery. Manufactures don't support phones after 1 year, so in the future we'd have to rely on 3rd party. I have 5 LG batteries right now and I'm cycling through all of them evenly. Same thing with cars, everyone has to rely on aftermarket parts eventually.
 

flyingkytez

Banned
Jan 28, 2011
3,368
0
0
Visit site
If you really want your batteries to last long, use a laptop cooling fan to cool the battery when charging. Avoid fast charging unless necessary, also don't let the battery drop below 15%. Disable useless apps, don't use messenger apps, use Greenify to hibernate apps, and use ForceDoze for better standby time. I get a solid 4 hours SOT, sometimes 5.5.
 

Mooncatt

Ambassador
Feb 23, 2011
10,718
275
83
Visit site
If you really want your batteries to last long, use a laptop cooling fan to cool the battery when charging. Avoid fast charging unless necessary, also don't let the battery drop below 15%. Disable useless apps, don't use messenger apps, use Greenify to hibernate apps, and use ForceDoze for better standby time. I get a solid 4 hours SOT, sometimes 5.5.

Geeze, what are you leaving running then? I was able to get better than that without all those steps. Not so much now, since my battery is getting weak. But I was able to get 6 without much trying in the past.
 

flyingkytez

Banned
Jan 28, 2011
3,368
0
0
Visit site
Geeze, what are you leaving running then? I was able to get better than that without all those steps. Not so much now, since my battery is getting weak. But I was able to get 6 without much trying in the past.

I have a ton of apps installed. Apps like eBay, Amazon, What's App, Group Me, Yahoo Mail, etc. drains battery by push messages and updates. I don't have Facebook or FB messenger but instead a 3rd party app.
 

Morty2264

Ambassador
Mar 6, 2012
22,922
1,053
113
Visit site
I've heard about this Apple thing. Based off of what I've seen and read on social media, quite a few users aren't happy and even stated they want to jump to Android.

I too hope LG never does this to their customers... But I did read that LG, HTC, Samsung, and one other company (Motorola?) confirmed that they do not do this type of thing with their phones.
 

Trending Posts

Forum statistics

Threads
942,403
Messages
6,913,918
Members
3,158,398
Latest member
Chelrie